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SANFan
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:37 pm

Yahnih wrote:
Considering all the international expansion flights..what I've seen in this thread is that the expansion would only include 3 widebody gates, 3 narrowbody. Isn't that a bit too small? Or how would that work, if SAN continues to receive more flights. Is there room to adjust the gates? In a recent conversation with one of the airport planning managers, I received photos where it shows that it is capable of 5 widebody, but in a previous image on this thread I only saw the 3 as stated above. ( Same from this link http://www.lajollalight.com/news/sd-air ... story.html )

Some of the drawings I've seen show that a fourth widebody could easily be docked at gates 49 & 50 but that eliminates 2 narrowbody positions. So there is definitely some flexibility in the new FIS gate arrangement. They do have to keep space for the Mexico arrivals (narrowbodies); those arrivals are sort of clumped together in the late afternoon too. And don't forget, there are other gates in T2W that can accommodate widebodies. For example, JAL could arrive at gate 51, unload pax, then be towed to another gate in the terminal for its departure, freeing up gate 51 for another int'l arrival. (Of course the same strategy also applies to the narrowbodies since an AS flight from Cabo can probably unload its arriving pax/baggage in ~:20, then be towed elsewhere for the a/c's departure, freeing up the gate for another int'l arrival.)

Interestingly, at yesterday's SDCRAA monthly board meeting, Hampton made a "guest appearance" explaining how scheduling can help in gate usage. He and his team are working with LH and WK -- both part of the same group -- trying to get WK's flights next year to coincide with LH's 5-day/wk sked -- WK will hopefully fly to SAN on the 2 days that LH doesn't. (Of course as soon as LH goes daily...) As much as is possible, SDIA will get the most efficient use out of their 6 FIS gates!

Nobody realistically expects SAN to become another LA or SFO so the number of FIS-accessible gates should take care of our needs for a good while. And there's also the potential for remote hardstands close by just in case excess arrivals might happen occasionally.
Yahnih wrote:
I personally would love to see Korean Air, as we have a huge population of Koreans in San Diego and it would be nice to bring in a major SkyTeam Intl Carrier. Granted Tijuana is most likely going to get China, I think we'll be good with KE, especially with the recent joint venture. What do you guys think of Air France in San Diego? I think Norweigian is what I've been hearing as well that may be coming soon. I do foresee Thomas Cook replacing Condor.

KE has been discussed as a good possibility for a second Asia flight, as has some sort of China service. Regarding SkyTeam, another Euro connection is certainly possible from that alliance (such as KLM/AF); it is nice to see that the Star alliance is now represented internationally by LH. I wouldn't be surprised to see DY start up in SAN -- they seem to be setting up shop everywhere in the US these days! It seems that SAN could easily end up with 5 or 6 Euro carriers, a combination of major alliance members with large hub ops, along with some leisure and low-cost travel company-type cx. Who'da thunk it possible!?

I can also see 2-3 Asian routes eventually, and don't forget that Hampton and his team are continuing to work hard to get some level of service to Latin America!
Yahnih wrote:
I'm curious, does anyone know if the flight crews switch off and stay in San Diego for all those international flights? I know most of the intl airlines only have a 2 hour switcharound time. Like JAL, BA, Edelweiss (twice weekly) etc.

I remember when BA announced SAN years ago, there was mention that their flight crews were excited about having layovers here. I have no idea what the situation is now but all those BA and JL crews must get at least an overnight in San Diego. For those cx with only a couple of flights a week, such as WK and DE, I expect they deadhead up to LA or SF to work a return flight to their homebase?

bb
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:14 pm

Yahnih wrote:
Considering all the international expansion flights..what I've seen in this thread is that the expansion would only include 3 widebody gates, 3 narrowbody. Isn't that a bit too small? Or how would that work, if SAN continues to receive more flights. Is there room to adjust the gates? In a recent conversation with one of the airport planning managers, I received photos where it shows that it is capable of 5 widebody, but in a previous image on this thread I only saw the 3 as stated above. ( Same from this link http://www.lajollalight.com/news/sd-air ... story.html )

Anyways, Im glad SAN is getting more flights. I personally would love to see Korean Air, as we have a huge population of Koreans in San Diego and it would be nice to bring in a major SkyTeam Intl Carrier. Granted Tijuana is most likely going to get China, I think we'll be good with KE, especially with the recent joint venture. What do you guys think of Air France in San Diego?

However, I think Norweigian is what I've been hearing as well that may be coming soon. I do foresee Thomas Cook replacing Condor.

Im curious, does anyone know if the flight crews switch off and stay in San Diego for all those international flights? I know most of the intl airlines only have a 2 hour switcharound time. Like JAL, BA, Edelweiss (twice weekly) etc.


I think the number of gates that will be coming with the expansion is right sized for the operations. The JL flight is early afternoon, European flights are evening and the narrowbody gates are primarily for the Mexico arrivals scattered throughout the day - Canada flights are pre-cleared. I'd like to see a Central America flight . If a second Asian flight comes, I wouldn't be surprised if they schedule it around the same time as JAL. As for Korean, I think the trade ties between Korea and San Diego/Tijuana would drive the flight more than VFR traffic and the connectivity at ICN to many Chinese and SE Asian destinations.

Air France might be an option, given that they are starting a lower cost, long haul operation. I'm not certain if it is like LH's CityLine operation or BA/IB's Level.

On overnighting crews, I've seen JL crews at hotels in Mission Valley, so I'm pretty certain they switch off. I feel like I've also BA crews in a hotel closer to the airport.
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:49 pm

Regarding additional Euro service, I found an interesting post on A.net, from 5 months ago (I assume that means sometime in February 2017) in the thread "MAN News #57". It involves Thomas Cook service to SAN. This is post #161 from that thread; here is that post in its entirety:

Interesting interview with MANs CEO.

Topics of conversation included how Brexit is having a drag effect on the launch of new routes, USPC and T2 expansion within 3 years, and the need for a fresh, UK wide aviation policy. They remain in discussions about the HS2 station funding.

One interesting tidbit revolved around an article back in July that predicted 11 new routes to be served from MAN. I had not realised that this was the CEOs own prediction.

The destinations and a summary of their status are below:

Delhi - this would be Air India. Brexit blamed for a delay.
Mumbai - this would be Scoot routing SIN-BOM-MAN. No update.
Houston - launched on SQ in November, 5x week. Route goes A350 next week and hopefully daily thereafter.
San Diego - TCX route, double weekly. Brexit blamed.
Detroit - a Delta route for the summer peak. Brexit presumed to blame.
Cape Town - TCX, Brexit blamed, but this would probably be a winter launch.
Johannesburg - no information.
Addis Abba- this would be Ethiopian. No information.
Bangkok - this would be TG, we don't know if it has been delayed but the route was due to be a winter launch. If news is not forthcoming in the next couple of months it can be assumed that it has been delayed.
Shanghai - delayed due to slot issues at Shanghai. MAN is in a queue.
Oman - launches daily in May


It appears that the list of 11 new routes dates back to July 2016, and the status of each route is as of early 2017. As can be seen, there was MAN-service mentioned to only 3 U.S. cities, and SAN was the only TCX-U.S. route listed.

Remember that last fall, there were very strong rumors that TCX was about to announce MAN-SAN, to start this summer I believe. It didn't happen and now it looks like we have a reason for the delay (Brexit.)

Fast-forward to now and the thread talking about "MAN-TPA/SAN/MSY". Taking the above post into account, I would expect MAN-SAN would be a definite to be announced; the other cities may also be announced of course, but SAN has certainly been on MAN's List since last year.

With assumptions locked firmly in place, it doesn't seem out of line to expect our int'l flag lineup for summer of 2018 to consist of -- at least -- BA, JL, AC, WS, WK, LH, MT! Five of those cx would op widebody service here, and domestic cx, AS, NK and WN, would continue to offer international narrowbody service (from Mexico.) There would therefore be 8 different airlines using our new FIS facilities regularly in 2018!

Since it's only July, there's certainly a chance that there could be additions to this list...

bb
 
Yahnih
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:57 pm

I think we still have an awesome and growing line-up.

If there was a wish list of airlines, what do you think would be the most likely? Did the SAN board ever release statistics on the number of tourists from each country into San Diego? I know it kind of seems difficult to gauge, but I do remember hearing the San Diego was literally one of the top, if not the top, destination for British tourists.

I feel like a middle-east airline would probably make out here someday. Maybe never an a380, but I could see one of Qatar/Ethiads/ or Emirates pending 787s make its way here. I would also an A350 as well.

San Diego is a beautiful and quaint major airport. I know it can't be an LAX or SFO in the foreseeable future. But, that doesn't mean its unlikely. Unlike SFO and LAX, they all have feeder airports that support their region. San Diego, only has one major airport, for the second largest city in California. So, it could be possible, on wherever they may put the expansion... or if MCRD moves, it could become big scale. I did see plans before of the terminals moving to the north side of the airport towards PCH, to maximize more runway usage to create two runways, if MCRD did disappear. I think this could be feasible and also maybe connect to public transit a lot easier.

I feel like people underestimate San Diego as a big city. As a native, and someone who travels for a living, San Diego is definitely a big city.. just with a small town feel.

My persona wishlist aside from Korea.. is Air France, Emirates, and maybe Xiamen or China Eastern. Hopeful wishing is Cathay.
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:44 pm

Yahnih wrote:
I think we still have an awesome and growing line-up.

If there was a wish list of airlines, what do you think would be the most likely? Did the SAN board ever release statistics on the number of tourists from each country into San Diego? I know it kind of seems difficult to gauge, but I do remember hearing the San Diego was literally one of the top, if not the top, destination for British tourists.

I feel like a middle-east airline would probably make out here someday. Maybe never an a380, but I could see one of Qatar/Ethiads/ or Emirates pending 787s make its way here. I would also an A350 as well.

San Diego is a beautiful and quaint major airport. I know it can't be an LAX or SFO in the foreseeable future. But, that doesn't mean its unlikely. Unlike SFO and LAX, they all have feeder airports that support their region. San Diego, only has one major airport, for the second largest city in California. So, it could be possible, on wherever they may put the expansion... or if MCRD moves, it could become big scale. I did see plans before of the terminals moving to the north side of the airport towards PCH, to maximize more runway usage to create two runways, if MCRD did disappear. I think this could be feasible and also maybe connect to public transit a lot easier.

I feel like people underestimate San Diego as a big city. As a native, and someone who travels for a living, San Diego is definitely a big city.. just with a small town feel.

My persona wishlist aside from Korea.. is Air France, Emirates, and maybe Xiamen or China Eastern. Hopeful wishing is Cathay.

First of all Yahnih, I just noticed you've got 2 posts, and AFAIK, they are both on this thread, and done yesterday and today, so.... Welcome to A.net!!! I don't know if you've been lurking here and just now started posting or if you just discovered this board, but I'm glad we have another 'SAN-fan' in the house, and I look forward to lots more of your great posts.

I'll just respond to a couple of your points above. I think most of us here in SAN would more-or-less agree with your wish list of cx who might set up shop at Lindbergh. I personally would prefer KLM to AF as a representative of SkyTeam (which I think will happen sooner rather than later.) I expect we'll see another major Asian hub connection at some point -- and KE seems to be the favorite for that job -- plus eventually there should be some service to China.

Rather than an ME3 cx, I would hope, and expect, to see LATAM or COPA or ??? providing service to Latin American hub to connect SAN with Central and South America. I know that this is still a priority (perhaps #1?) of Hampton and the SDIA folks. Finally, I have seen mention of intercontinental service to Oz and/or NZ some day.

As I'm sure you know, once the T1 replacement happens and maybe a couple more gates are added to the west, beyond gate 51, Lindbergh Field will probably be pretty much at its gate limit. A single runway airport on 663 acres of constrained land, and now easily moving beyond 20M pax per year, PLUS a nighttime departure curfew, just can't keep growing forever. The SDCRAA has done study after study and determined that the south-side terminal complex is THE development path to be followed. I still feel that someday, somehow, Miramar will be the long-term solution for the region's commercial airport needs. (I know, this in a city that can't even manage to build a football stadium and save our Chargers!...)

Again, from a fellow San Diego native, welcome Yahnih and keep the thoughts coming!

bb
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:16 pm

Exciting stuff going on at SAN! As a frequent traveler to South America I would love for COPA to start up service ASAP! I remember booking a flight from SAN to NRT back in 2013 and not knowing if we were going to be on a 787, or 777, or what; we flew on the 787 as it was reinstated before our July flight. It was so cool to see San Diego on the monitors all over NRT as we were waiting to fly back home!
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SANMAN66
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:44 pm

Yahnih wrote:
I feel like a middle-east airline would probably make out here someday.


I was thinking about flights to the Middle-East,since we have the 2nd largest Chaldean population here,
I noticed Lufthansa has a flight to Erbil (Northern Iraq), I wonder there is market for San Diego Chaldeans
wanting to travel to Erbil,Iraq? You are certainly right about people underestimating San Diego as big city, I
think there's too many old-timers who live here that are always reminiscing about when San Diego was a
a small town.
As with an airline wish-list, every time I come up with a wish-list, the SDIA blows my socks off with a
surprise. It happened when they announced BA (for the third try) ,JAL, and my jaw hit the floor when
they recently announced LH! I'm waiting for another surprise.
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:24 pm

Great posts everyone!

Yeah, I just get this feeling when watching SCRAA board meetings, etc., that the airport people as well as the board members are trying their best to keep up with Hampton and his winning efforts! It's almost funny sometimes: "Hey Hampton, slow down a bit! We're trying to give you the facilities you need for all these !#?*@ airlines you've got lined up waiting to land at SDIA!"

Yes, 2018 is already off to a great start! Besides LH (Mar), AS has already announced their new service to DAL (Feb), and WN has new service to TPA ready to go (Jan.)

Oh, and I have a feeling we'll be hearing from AAG soon, prolly with more good news for SAN. Last night they loaded their Nov 5 -- end of DST -- schedule, and I feel that there will be some new routes announced now that that is done. (Besides, it's been a while!)

These days, we seem to be able to figure that new route announcements from AS almost always contain a goody or two for us. What a great feeling that is. I continue to wonder if they'll try to beat WN to TPA, and/or IND (since WN will seasonally end SAN-IND this fall.) I also hope that we will see SAN-OAK announced, and started, soon; that can't be far off, can it?...

I think this a great time of the year to stay tuned folks!

bb
 
SANMAN66
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:38 pm

SANFan wrote:
Oh, and I have a feeling we'll be hearing from AAG soon, prolly with more good news for SAN
bb


Domestic-wise, I'm patiently waiting for SAN-RDU to show up, I'm thinking AS or WN would
do it. It has really been a shootout over at T1! AS announcing DAL is stepping on WN's turf! I
can't wait to see how WN responds! This is more exciting than a Charger game! :rotfl: :
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
SANAV8R
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:34 am

Yahnih wrote:
I think we still have an awesome and growing line-up.

If there was a wish list of airlines, what do you think would be the most likely? Did the SAN board ever release statistics on the number of tourists from each country into San Diego? I know it kind of seems difficult to gauge, but I do remember hearing the San Diego was literally one of the top, if not the top, destination for British tourists.

I feel like a middle-east airline would probably make out here someday. Maybe never an a380, but I could see one of Qatar/Ethiads/ or Emirates pending 787s make its way here. I would also an A350 as well.

San Diego is a beautiful and quaint major airport. I know it can't be an LAX or SFO in the foreseeable future. But, that doesn't mean its unlikely. Unlike SFO and LAX, they all have feeder airports that support their region. San Diego, only has one major airport, for the second largest city in California. So, it could be possible, on wherever they may put the expansion... or if MCRD moves, it could become big scale. I did see plans before of the terminals moving to the north side of the airport towards PCH, to maximize more runway usage to create two runways, if MCRD did disappear. I think this could be feasible and also maybe connect to public transit a lot easier.

I feel like people underestimate San Diego as a big city. As a native, and someone who travels for a living, San Diego is definitely a big city.. just with a small town feel.

My persona wishlist aside from Korea.. is Air France, Emirates, and maybe Xiamen or China Eastern. Hopeful wishing is Cathay.


MCRD will not move in the foreseeable future. Multiple Commandants have decided against consolidating all training at MCRD Parris Island. Stating it would be a single point of failure in regards to weather vulnerabilities and cost to accommodate an additional 20,000 recruits a year. Other proposals have had MCRD moving to Camp Pendleton, where the MCRD San Diego recruits already complete a portion of their training. However, in any case if MCRD would close, the site is historic and would more than likely become an addition to Liberty Station. Right now the only thing that separates MCRD from Liberty Station besides the inlet is a fence near Bay View MCRD on the base side and Corvette Diner on the Liberty Station side.


SANMAN66 wrote:
Yahnih wrote:
I feel like a middle-east airline would probably make out here someday.


I was thinking about flights to the Middle-East,since we have the 2nd largest Chaldean population here,
I noticed Lufthansa has a flight to Erbil (Northern Iraq), I wonder there is market for San Diego Chaldeans
wanting to travel to Erbil,Iraq?


I know some Chaldeans/Assyrians and I've asked if they have ever traveled (or traveled back to) to Iraq and most if not all have said no or they wouldn't especially now. Many are trying to get their families out. One friend said if they do travel its usually amongst the diaspora in places like Germany, Sweden, some even in Lebanon and Turkey, which would easily be connected via LH.

Another thing is I've heard that Iraqi Airways apparently had a ticket office on Broadway many years ago. I remember there were some airline offices in the same complex as the Westgate. I only remember going into the Aeromexico and American Airlines offices a few times in the mid 90s. Aeromexico had a huge model in the window. I remember going into the AA office and getting an extremely outdated late 80s American Eagle brochure that had seating diagrams of CASA, Gulfstream, Shorts around 1996.
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:05 pm

A really cool video I recorded the other day of Edelweiss taking off into a perfect sunset. https://youtu.be/JoeijUqm3nc
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:37 pm

redrooster3 wrote:
A really cool video I recorded the other day of Edelweiss taking off into a perfect sunset. https://youtu.be/JoeijUqm3nc

Wow. what a treat! And it's extra special to see videos shot from the correct side of the fence!!! Thanks for sharing with us, Red'.

Any chance you can shoot more of these great vids from that same spot, perhaps covering all of our widebody flights for starters... What a great collection that would be!

(BTW Red', I keep asking this same question knowing that someday the answer's going to change: is the 'Lindy Hop' still necessary for these big beautiful birds?)

bb
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:32 am

redrooster3 wrote:
A really cool video I recorded the other day of Edelweiss taking off into a perfect sunset. https://youtu.be/JoeijUqm3nc


Yeah, that's awesome 'rooster! You need to make more of those videos!
My name is Scott, and I am addicted to writing obnoxiously-detailed trip reports.
 
redrooster3
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:37 pm

SANFan wrote:
redrooster3 wrote:
A really cool video I recorded the other day of Edelweiss taking off into a perfect sunset. https://youtu.be/JoeijUqm3nc

Wow. what a treat! And it's extra special to see videos shot from the correct side of the fence!!! Thanks for sharing with us, Red'.

Any chance you can shoot more of these great vids from that same spot, perhaps covering all of our widebody flights for starters... What a great collection that would be!

(BTW Red', I keep asking this same question knowing that someday the answer's going to change: is the 'Lindy Hop' still necessary for these big beautiful birds?)

bb


Hey Man! Sorry for the late reply! I haven't been near my PC in a while. But to answer your questions about shooting the other carriers from that spot. I can, And I have a Japan Airlines Takeoff from two days ago that is a good capture. But in my opinion, is too over exposed and I want to try for another shot when I am free to do so. Whats funny is is BA, and Edelweiss both rotate off the runway at 'around' B7 taxiway, which is where I stand at to watch and record. But JAL rotates off earlier, at B6 taxiway. Condor rotates at B7 as well. Also, your concern about the Lindy hop....Yes all wide bodies do the lindy hop, except for Condor. Their wings don'y disturb the Laverne and Least terns nesting Sanctuary. So BA, Edelweiss, JAL, HA, and even when DL or UA bring a 764 in, have to do the lindy hop. Condor & DLs domestic 763A's are an exception.
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:06 pm

redrooster3 wrote:
Hey Man! Sorry for the late reply! I haven't been near my PC in a while. But to answer your questions about shooting the other carriers from that spot. I can, And I have a Japan Airlines Takeoff from two days ago that is a good capture. But in my opinion, is too over exposed and I want to try for another shot when I am free to do so. Whats funny is is BA, and Edelweiss both rotate off the runway at 'around' B7 taxiway, which is where I stand at to watch and record. But JAL rotates off earlier, at B6 taxiway. Condor rotates at B7 as well. Also, your concern about the Lindy hop....Yes all wide bodies do the lindy hop, except for Condor. Their wings don'y disturb the Laverne and Least terns nesting Sanctuary. So BA, Edelweiss, JAL, HA, and even when DL or UA bring a 764 in, have to do the lindy hop. Condor & DLs domestic 763A's are an exception.

Interesting info Red', thanx. I guess it just takes a bit longer to encourage those big ol' 4-holers down 27! (I'm still amazed that a 747 flies nonstop from SAN to LON every day!!!!!)

I thought the Lindy Hop was to avoid 'stuff'' next to Bravo, such as buildings, light poles, radar shacks, but I had thought that was all gone now. So it's our little birdies that are keeping the Hop on the books of "Oddities of Lindbergh Field"? All I can say is eventually, with more and more Heavies flying around the world from SAN, those Hops are going to really impact/be impacted by increasing a/c traffic on 27! At peak times, with op's as frequent as they have to be, while intermingling arrivals and departures, having to interrupt the flow -- both on the runway and the taxiway -- while a Heavy waits to cross the active... Ugghhhh.

Unless the airport is successful at relocating the terns, maybe those birds could be responsible for relocating SDIA to Miramar! How's that for a fantasy long shot?

Anyway, Red', keep those amazing videos coming, and thanx again for your efforts!

bb
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:56 am

When will terminal 1 demolition begin? Which airline will have the final flight? What kind of equipment will they use?
 
blacksoviet
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:14 am

SANFan wrote:
Yahnih wrote:
Considering all the international expansion flights..what I've seen in this thread is that the expansion would only include 3 widebody gates, 3 narrowbody. Isn't that a bit too small? Or how would that work, if SAN continues to receive more flights. Is there room to adjust the gates? In a recent conversation with one of the airport planning managers, I received photos where it shows that it is capable of 5 widebody, but in a previous image on this thread I only saw the 3 as stated above. ( Same from this link http://www.lajollalight.com/news/sd-air ... story.html )

Some of the drawings I've seen show that a fourth widebody could easily be docked at gates 49 & 50 but that eliminates 2 narrowbody positions. So there is definitely some flexibility in the new FIS gate arrangement. They do have to keep space for the Mexico arrivals (narrowbodies); those arrivals are sort of clumped together in the late afternoon too. And don't forget, there are other gates in T2W that can accommodate widebodies. For example, JAL could arrive at gate 51, unload pax, then be towed to another gate in the terminal for its departure, freeing up gate 51 for another int'l arrival. (Of course the same strategy also applies to the narrowbodies since an AS flight from Cabo can probably unload its arriving pax/baggage in ~:20, then be towed elsewhere for the a/c's departure, freeing up the gate for another int'l arrival.)

Interestingly, at yesterday's SDCRAA monthly board meeting, Hampton made a "guest appearance" explaining how scheduling can help in gate usage. He and his team are working with LH and WK -- both part of the same group -- trying to get WK's flights next year to coincide with LH's 5-day/wk sked -- WK will hopefully fly to SAN on the 2 days that LH doesn't. (Of course as soon as LH goes daily...) As much as is possible, SDIA will get the most efficient use out of their 6 FIS gates!

Nobody realistically expects SAN to become another LA or SFO so the number of FIS-accessible gates should take care of our needs for a good while. And there's also the potential for remote hardstands close by just in case excess arrivals might happen occasionally.
Yahnih wrote:
I personally would love to see Korean Air, as we have a huge population of Koreans in San Diego and it would be nice to bring in a major SkyTeam Intl Carrier. Granted Tijuana is most likely going to get China, I think we'll be good with KE, especially with the recent joint venture. What do you guys think of Air France in San Diego? I think Norweigian is what I've been hearing as well that may be coming soon. I do foresee Thomas Cook replacing Condor.

KE has been discussed as a good possibility for a second Asia flight, as has some sort of China service. Regarding SkyTeam, another Euro connection is certainly possible from that alliance (such as KLM/AF); it is nice to see that the Star alliance is now represented internationally by LH. I wouldn't be surprised to see DY start up in SAN -- they seem to be setting up shop everywhere in the US these days! It seems that SAN could easily end up with 5 or 6 Euro carriers, a combination of major alliance members with large hub ops, along with some leisure and low-cost travel company-type cx. Who'da thunk it possible!?

I can also see 2-3 Asian routes eventually, and don't forget that Hampton and his team are continuing to work hard to get some level of service to Latin America!
Yahnih wrote:
I'm curious, does anyone know if the flight crews switch off and stay in San Diego for all those international flights? I know most of the intl airlines only have a 2 hour switcharound time. Like JAL, BA, Edelweiss (twice weekly) etc.

I remember when BA announced SAN years ago, there was mention that their flight crews were excited about having layovers here. I have no idea what the situation is now but all those BA and JL crews must get at least an overnight in San Diego. For those cx with only a couple of flights a week, such as WK and DE, I expect they deadhead up to LA or SF to work a return flight to their homebase?

bb

did the KE 743s have enough range to fly to SAN?
 
tmiw
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:22 am

blacksoviet wrote:
When will terminal 1 demolition begin? Which airline will have the final flight? What kind of equipment will they use?


Alaska runs a couple of redeyes from SAN IIRC so probably them, using one of their 737s. Not sure when the demolition will happen though but it probably won't be that quickly.
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:39 pm

blacksoviet wrote:
When will terminal 1 demolition begin? Which airline will have the final flight? What kind of equipment will they use?

The T1 rebuild is years away.

AFAIK, the current plan is to demolish the existing buildings east of T1 (including the former PSA hanger/CT/airport HQ), then build the eastern part of the new T1, then demolish T1E. Construction will move westward, with T1W eventually being removed, followed by T2E. That way, cx will have new homes to move into before their current locations are bulldozed. WN, for example, appears to be the first carrier to be relocated to new digs, but (unfortunately) that's probably several years in the future..

Staging is a very important part of the rebuild in order to minimize disruption to airport operations, auto traffic flow, parking, etc. The entire project will be done in carefully planned stages with, undoubtedly, constant adjustments. This huge a project will take a while to plan, and execute.

Everything is still being modified while financing and project plans are still being developed. For example, the accepted plan included a large, new, mid-terminal FIS facility as part of the T1 replacement project. With the FIS facilities now being moved and rebuilt at the west end of T2W, that is where they are expected to remain. Therefore the total T1 replacement concept is now being redesigned.

If you are interested in this topic, there's lots of stuff at SAN.org. Dig around and who knows what you may turn up!

bb
 
SANMAN66
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:01 pm

SANFan wrote:

Unless the airport is successful at relocating the terns, maybe those birds could be responsible for relocating SDIA to Miramar! How's that for a fantasy long shot?
bb


I think they would have to wait until the least terns come off that endangered list to relocate the nests and pave over the
bare ground. A couple of days ago I was in the library,and came across an old 1994 rendering of Miramar,if it were to
become our new Int'l airport. Nobody dreamed that Lindbergh Field, 23 years later would be expanded and get International
flights, let alone daily nonstops to Tokyo, and a 747 doing nonstops to London! I had thought back then we would need
a bigger airport,and longer runways to attract International flights.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
blacksoviet
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:42 pm

SANFan wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
When will terminal 1 demolition begin? Which airline will have the final flight? What kind of equipment will they use?

The T1 rebuild is years away.

AFAIK, the current plan is to demolish the existing buildings east of T1 (including the former PSA hanger/CT/airport HQ), then build the eastern part of the new T1, then demolish T1E. Construction will move westward, with T1W eventually being removed, followed by T2E. That way, cx will have new homes to move into before their current locations are bulldozed. WN, for example, appears to be the first carrier to be relocated to new digs, but (unfortunately) that's probably several years in the future..

Staging is a very important part of the rebuild in order to minimize disruption to airport operations, auto traffic flow, parking, etc. The entire project will be done in carefully planned stages with, undoubtedly, constant adjustments. This huge a project will take a while to plan, and execute.

Everything is still being modified while financing and project plans are still being developed. For example, the accepted plan included a large, new, mid-terminal FIS facility as part of the T1 replacement project. With the FIS facilities now being moved and rebuilt at the west end of T2W, that is where they are expected to remain. Therefore the total T1 replacement concept is now being redesigned.

If you are interested in this topic, there's lots of stuff at SAN.org. Dig around and who knows what you may turn up!

bb

There are not enough gates in T2W to handle all of the planned international flights. I believe only four gates are connected to FIS. There will be a gate shortage when T2E gets demolished.

Who owns all of the hangars over by the Commuter Terminal?
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:22 am

blacksoviet wrote:
There are not enough gates in T2W to handle all of the planned international flights. I believe only four gates are connected to FIS. There will be a gate shortage when T2E gets demolished.

Who owns all of the hangars over by the Commuter Terminal?

The FIS move and rebuild is a 2-part project. Part 1 is expected to be completed by June 2018 and connects 4 gates -- 48 thru 51 -- to the int'l arrival facilities. Part 2 will be finished in summer of 2019 and will add 2 more gates, 46 & 47, to the FIS complex. Those 6 gates should be able to handle as many as 5 wide body int'l arrivals simultaneously, plus room for a narrow body at the same time. (The finished configuration is generally presented as 3 heavies + 3 narrow bodies.)

As needs increase beyond that, remote hardstands (with buses) can be added. Also, there is room to build more permanent gates to the west of gate 51; from the rough renderings I've seen, maybe 4 or 5 more gates. I would expect that all of those gates would also be able to be linked directly with the FIS facilities.

The remaining buildings just east of the Airport Admin Bldg (formerly the CT) I believe are historical and I really don't know the latest plans for them but they will have to be gone before any building commences. Then there are the air freight buildings just east of gate 1A and west of the CT; I'm really not sure if those are still carrier owned or maybe the airport now owns them.

In any case, there are still lots of things to be done before any terminal construction may begin. (And some of the things, I think, are out of the hands of the airport...)

bb
 
tmiw
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:45 am

SANFan wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
There are not enough gates in T2W to handle all of the planned international flights. I believe only four gates are connected to FIS. There will be a gate shortage when T2E gets demolished.

Who owns all of the hangars over by the Commuter Terminal?

The FIS move and rebuild is a 2-part project. Part 1 is expected to be completed by June 2018 and connects 4 gates -- 48 thru 51 -- to the int'l arrival facilities. Part 2 will be finished in summer of 2019 and will add 2 more gates, 46 & 47, to the FIS complex. Those 6 gates should be able to handle as many as 5 wide body int'l arrivals simultaneously, plus room for a narrow body at the same time. (The finished configuration is generally presented as 3 heavies + 3 narrow bodies.)

As needs increase beyond that, remote hardstands (with buses) can be added. Also, there is room to build more permanent gates to the west of gate 51; from the rough renderings I've seen, maybe 4 or 5 more gates. I would expect that all of those gates would also be able to be linked directly with the FIS facilities.

The remaining buildings just east of the Airport Admin Bldg (formerly the CT) I believe are historical and I really don't know the latest plans for them but they will have to be gone before any building commences. Then there are the air freight buildings just east of gate 1A and west of the CT; I'm really not sure if those are still carrier owned or maybe the airport now owns them.

In any case, there are still lots of things to be done before any terminal construction may begin. (And some of the things, I think, are out of the hands of the airport...)

bb


Would there be any room for AS/F9 or at least part of WN to move to those new gates temporarily while the respective portion of T1 is rebuilt? I'm thinking moving AS first and rebuilding T1W/linking it to T2E would be the best place to start if that were to happen.
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:29 am

Do you have to leave security to walk from T2E to T1W?
 
tmiw
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:15 am

blacksoviet wrote:
Do you have to leave security to walk from T2E to T1W?


Currently you have to walk outside the building entirely. My understanding is that the terminals will be linked airside once T1's rebuilt, or at least that's what I remember anyway.
 
Highcroft
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:59 am

tmiw wrote:
SANFan wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
There are not enough gates in T2W to handle all of the planned international flights. I believe only four gates are connected to FIS. There will be a gate shortage when T2E gets demolished.

Who owns all of the hangars over by the Commuter Terminal?

The FIS move and rebuild is a 2-part project. Part 1 is expected to be completed by June 2018 and connects 4 gates -- 48 thru 51 -- to the int'l arrival facilities. Part 2 will be finished in summer of 2019 and will add 2 more gates, 46 & 47, to the FIS complex. Those 6 gates should be able to handle as many as 5 wide body int'l arrivals simultaneously, plus room for a narrow body at the same time. (The finished configuration is generally presented as 3 heavies + 3 narrow bodies.)

As needs increase beyond that, remote hardstands (with buses) can be added. Also, there is room to build more permanent gates to the west of gate 51; from the rough renderings I've seen, maybe 4 or 5 more gates. I would expect that all of those gates would also be able to be linked directly with the FIS facilities.

The remaining buildings just east of the Airport Admin Bldg (formerly the CT) I believe are historical and I really don't know the latest plans for them but they will have to be gone before any building commences. Then there are the air freight buildings just east of gate 1A and west of the CT; I'm really not sure if those are still carrier owned or maybe the airport now owns them.

In any case, there are still lots of things to be done before any terminal construction may begin. (And some of the things, I think, are out of the hands of the airport...)

bb


Would there be any room for AS/F9 or at least part of WN to move to those new gates temporarily while the respective portion of T1 is rebuilt? I'm thinking moving AS first and rebuilding T1W/linking it to T2E would be the best place to start if that were to happen.


A presentation (pg. 166 of the PDF) in the materials from the March 2, 2017 Board Meeting http://san.org/Airport-Authority/Meetings-Agendas/Authority-Board?EntryId=9038 shows that the first phase of the T1 replacement would have 18 gates, one less than the current total for AS, F9, and WN in the current T1. Once completed (2022, projected), T1 tenants would move there and then demo of T1 would start to make room for the second phase of the T1 replacement (12 additional gates, bringing the T1 replacement to 30 gates total). The same doc always shows that the proposed construction start would be Q2/Q3 of 2019 so we're some years off.

It seems that WN won't have much ability to expand out of SAN for long while. They seem fairly maxed out already. How many more flights could AS fit into their SAN schedule? They've been adding so many flights in the past couple years and it's hard to keep up.

The design alternative ("Amended Preferred APD") in the March 2 materials is already redesigned with the new FIS location and existing least tern nesting in mind. Now, it looks like they're continuing the refinements to the design and undergoing environmental analysis. I hope this all gets rolling pretty quickly. The new T1 can't come soon enough!

Wasn't there talk of AS moving to T2E to be closer to AA and VX or am I misremembering something?
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:20 am

Highcroft wrote:
It seems that WN won't have much ability to expand out of SAN for long. They seem fairly maxed out already.

If they are timed carefully, WN should be able to add a few more flights at their existing 11 gates. Studying the WN turn skeds for SAN, all of the recent new flights, BOI, EWR, GEG, IND, SJD, SLC & TPA, leave at non-peak times; for example, there are no weekday SAN departures prior to 9am and all new arrivals are between 11:50am and 3pm! This also helps create more connection opportunities, in addition to avoiding the "gate-gridlock" peak times.

Our current (peak summer) schedule has 111 weekday departures; that number includes most of those new flights listed above. I honestly don't know how many more daily departures WN can handle at SAN but the rule of thumb used to be 10 flts/day/gate which ironically, for 11 gates, is 111 flights! Several WN airports these days apparently exceed that 10 flts/gate level.

Perhaps, given the time frame for the T1 replacement, WN might elect to add a gate or 2 to the east of their gate 1A. That would require the early demolition of Air Lane and the airline freight buildings but of course they would be going sooner or later anyway. And see below.

Highcroft wrote:
How many more flights could AS fit into their SAN schedule? They've been adding so many flights in the past couple years and it's hard to keep up. Wasn't there talk of AS moving to T2E to be closer to AA and VX or am I misremembering something?

Currently, AAG uses 7 of the 8 gates in T1W for ~35 daily flights; that's a gate usage of ~5 flts/gate/day. I'm not sure what their normal/acceptable gate usage is but I'm sure it's higher than 5. With careful scheduling, they could theoretically almost double their number of flights! And as I pointed out above regarding WN, the majority of AS's new flights being added later this year, are scheduled at off-peak hours.

Yes, as I understand it, AAG (including VX) will move next year to T2E, co-sharing pretty much the entire terminal with only AA. The plan, I believe, is that jetBlue, Spirit and perhaps G4 will then relocate to T1W. Frontier, I suspect, will remain there. Depending on how many cx move, and how many gates they want in T1W, if there are any 'leftovers', maybe WN can claim them. There have been no formal announcements regarding these relocations so the details are unsure.

bb
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:53 pm

A.net is atwitter with the upcoming announcement tomorrow from F9 about, apparently, lots of new flights/routes, etc. There are also announcements at several airports taking place tomorrow -- such as OKC, SJC, AUS, MIA -- so the rumors are flying!

I bring it up because I'm curious if Frontier might continue their growth in SAN by starting another route or 2 from Lindbergh? Today, they serve DEN, MCO, AUS, CVG, CLE and COS (with direct thru-service to IAD) from here, with some routes being daily, some being year-round, and some not. It's impossible to say what else they could add at SAN but the carrier does have a bit of a reputation for opening "hubs-du-jour" and adding and subtracting routes as often as the Padres change pitchers! In any case, I'm excited to see if any goodies for SAN are unveiled tomorrow.

I think it's great that in addition to what AS and WN are doing around here these days, we also have F9, NK and even G4 growing their route maps from SAN. PLUS, of course, all these new intercontinental foreign flags showing up on our 663-acre doorstep!

Think of it: in SAN just a few years ago, let's say June 2014, F9 and G4 had a single route each, NK went to 4 destinations, AS flew to 15 cities, & we had 1 BA flt to LON and JL had been flying nonstop to TYO for a year and a half! Today, F9 serves 6 cities, G4 flies to 4 destinations, Spirit to 7, AS has 21 different destinations (with the total at 28 by the end of this year, plus 4 foreign flag cx flying intercontinentally from SAN!

Besides F9's announcement tomorrow, WN's next schedule extension on 7/27, and AAG undoubtedly announcing new routes sometime this month, IMO the chances are pretty good that there will some more good news/new routes coming soon to our airport!

bb
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:55 pm

I guess I'll just keep discussing things with myself here on our thread... (What do they say about us old folks who talk to themselves?...)

F9 today announced 3 new routes from SAN: SAT, OKC and TUL!

SAT starts in October, 4x weekly (split with the AUS flight which is 3x weekly) and all these flights continue on direct to MSY (r/t.)

The new Oklahoma flights start next Spring; so far, not many details but I'm wondering if OKC and TUL will also split a daily flight from SAN?

SAT of course is currently served double-daily by WN while TUL/OKC were previously served (pretty successfully I believe) by ExpressJet back in 2007/8.

I had thought AS might start at least SAT and OKC one of these days -- nice routes for the EMJ -- and perhaps they still will. But once again, they were beaten to the punch!
This makes 9 destinations now served by F9 out of SAN: AUS, CLE COS, CVG, DEN, MCO, OKC, SAT & TUL! Not all daily or year-round at this point but I think it's great anyway. Two new un-served destinations form Lindbergh, plus more announced good news for 2018! (And it's only July!)

bb
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:24 pm

Was listening to LiveATC.net Monday evening because of the timing of BA 44N arrival and Edelweiss 19 departure. BA arrived shortly after 7pm local and was instructed to hold on spot 1 area since Edelweiss was still at the gate. Since LiveATC doesn't offer ground or ramp frequencies here in SAN, I could only figure it was a 20-25 minute wait for BA to pull into gate since Edelweiss departed about 25 minutes later. Those additional FIS gates can't come soon enough!
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:55 pm

SANFan wrote:
I guess I'll just keep discussing things with myself here on our thread... (What do they say about us old folks who talk to themselves?...)


Highcroft here under a new pseudonym. Though it might be better to have something a bit more aviation related. And no need to talk with yourself! Always appreciate your insights and rounding up of SAN info. It's really incredible how many destinations SAN has now. Not bad for a tiny airport in the bottom corner of the country. I like those little E175s AS has. I hope they keep using them to open up new routes. It's good to know they still have room to grow and will be moving to T2. There's lots more to see and eat over there.

SANFan wrote:
Perhaps, given the time frame for the T1 replacement, WN might elect to add a gate or 2 to the east of their gate 1A. That would require the early demolition of Air Lane and the airline freight buildings but of course they would be going sooner or later anyway. And see below.


I'd wager that after AS moves west that WN makes some use of T1W though that would mean that WN's gates are behind three separate security checkpoints. Not ideal but they seem to work pretty hard to help people connect airside rather than forcing them to go through security again.

757SanCam wrote:
Was listening to LiveATC.net Monday evening because of the timing of BA 44N arrival and Edelweiss 19 departure. BA arrived shortly after 7pm local and was instructed to hold on spot 1 area since Edelweiss was still at the gate. Since LiveATC doesn't offer ground or ramp frequencies here in SAN, I could only figure it was a 20-25 minute wait for BA to pull into gate since Edelweiss departed about 25 minutes later. Those additional FIS gates can't come soon enough!


Indeed! The ramp and taxiways should be better too after the move. Those widebodies will have more room to move around compared to the alleyway between T1 and T2 now. Now, if only we could get some international service from a Skyteam airline to round things out...
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:11 am

amadorE175 wrote:
Highcroft here under a new pseudonym. Though it might be better to have something a bit more aviation related. And no need to talk with yourself! Always appreciate your insights and rounding up of SAN info. It's really incredible how many destinations SAN has now. Not bad for a tiny airport in the bottom corner of the country. I like those little E175s AS has. I hope they keep using them to open up new routes. It's good to know they still have room to grow and will be moving to T2. There's lots more to see and eat over there.

Too many photos showing up in the post offices, eh? Time to change the ol' identity! No matter what you call yourself, Amador', glad to have you here and talking! (And thanx for your comments!)

I believe your wish for more AAG EMJs serving SAN will come true, sooner and later. We keep seeing WN and now F9 starting routes out of SAN with 737s and AirBi that would make so much more sense if served by a 75-seater (which of course they don't have.) F9 gets around the problem with lots of sub-daily service which IMO is not ideal.

amadorE175 wrote:
I'd wager that after AS moves west that WN makes some use of T1W though that would mean that WN's gates are behind three separate security checkpoints. Not ideal but they seem to work pretty hard to help people connect airside rather than forcing them to go through security again.

I certainly hope that IF WN starts using a couple of the gates over in T1W, they will offer a beyond-security bus or van shuttle between their 3 gate concourses. In fact, I'm really surprised they haven't already started something like that between their gates 3-thru-10 rotunda and the other gates (1 thru 2 in the East annex...

757SanCam wrote:
Was listening to LiveATC.net Monday evening because of the timing of BA 44N arrival and Edelweiss 19 departure. BA arrived shortly after 7pm local and was instructed to hold on spot 1 area since Edelweiss was still at the gate. Since LiveATC doesn't offer ground or ramp frequencies here in SAN, I could only figure it was a 20-25 minute wait for BA to pull into gate since Edelweiss departed about 25 minutes later. Those additional FIS gates can't come soon enough!

I bet there's a lot of hair pulling happening in the airport gate control offices at SDIA! It is pretty impressive that the airport folks are getting the FIS relo project done as quickly as they are - one year! But it just might be a long summer for the gate control folks!

amadorE175 wrote:
Indeed! The ramp and taxiways should be better too after the move. Those widebodies will have more room to move around compared to the alleyway between T1 and T2 now. Now, if only we could get some international service from a Skyteam airline to round things out...

Speaking of taxiways, I don't know if this has been discussed -- I don't think so -- but apparently the airport is going to build a Taxiway Alpha pretty soon; it's in the budget. Essentially it will be a 'siding' south of and parallel to Bravo running from B6 nearly to Delta (the former diagonal runway.) It will apparently offer a pass-around for opposing-direction traffic on B and will be important when the T1 rebuild project happens.

Also, somewhere in the ADP (Airport Development Plan), there is a project to relocate B (to the south) to provide more separation from the active and to eliminate the Lindy Hop! I apologize that I can't provide direct links or pix or more details; it's sometimes quite difficult (for me) to find specific things on SAN.org.

BTW Amador', when SAN gets another major Euro hub carrier, I'm pretty sure it will be a SkyTeam member.

bb
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:11 am

WN will not get more than one gate at T1W.
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:27 am

blacksoviet wrote:
WN will not get more than one gate at T1W.

Is this a fact, or a feeling? Do you have some firm knowledge about the carrier relocations about to happen? I know that SDIA has budgeted $25M for all the airline moves and remodeling due mainly to the FIS move/remodel next year.

Anything else you can share with us would be very much appreciated.

bb
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:52 pm

SANFan wrote:
blacksoviet wrote:
WN will not get more than one gate at T1W.

Is this a fact, or a feeling? Do you have some firm knowledge about the carrier relocations about to happen? I know that SDIA has budgeted $25M for all the airline moves and remodeling due mainly to the FIS move/remodel next year.

Anything else you can share with us would be very much appreciated.

bb

It's just a feeling.
 
alexrg
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:07 am

This afternoon there was a JAL 787 parked on the charter ramp waiting to operate a flight to Hong Kong. Saw it while my flight to Dallas was taxiing... JAL seems to do quite a lot of charters from SAN these days.
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:28 am

T1W will be full with B6, G4, F9, and Spirit. Southwest will be lucky if they get one gate at T1W but that is not likely.
 
bw50505
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:02 am

alexrg wrote:
This afternoon there was a JAL 787 parked on the charter ramp waiting to operate a flight to Hong Kong. Saw it while my flight to Dallas was taxiing... JAL seems to do quite a lot of charters from SAN these days.


Do you have a link to the flight? I couldn't find anything on Flightaware or FR24.

UPDATE: There was no JL charter SAN-HKG today. JL65 got cancelled today (Wednesday) and the 788 operating it got parked on the charter tarmac. I'm curious to know where you got that info though.
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:45 am

washingtonflyer wrote:
SDM is mentioned often, but from what I heard, dedicated operations cannot be down owing Mount Otay and the other mountains to the east of SDM.


I've heard that a lot in the past and I've been there many times and seen it is an obstacle approaching SDM. It is a problem but I think with newer curving RNAV GPS approaches it is less problematic now than before. In the meantime unfortunately the Otay mesa is developing and SR 905/future I-905 is being built there. It is possible something could happen but it seems to get less likely over time :(
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:44 pm

Do you have a link to the flight? I couldn't find anything on Flightaware or FR24.

UPDATE: There was no JL charter SAN-HKG today. JL65 got cancelled today (Wednesday) and the 788 operating it got parked on the charter tarmac. I'm curious to know where you got that info though.


Thanks for the correction. I overheard the agents in the Admirals Club discussing a flight to Hong Kong leaving that evening, which seemed to be confirmed by the large number of Chinese tourists who were being escorted around the airport by some guy in a suit who looked like the type of guide you'd find on a group tour. It's entirely possible I misinterpreted the whole thing and I assumed the 788 was there because of what I overheard (confirmation bias). My apologies for the error.
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:30 pm

JAL 66 inbound just got diverted back to Narita after 2 hours in flight. Any ideas there? This route is having a hard week.
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:40 pm

jacob789456 wrote:
JAL 66 inbound just got diverted back to Narita after 2 hours in flight. Any ideas there? This route is having a hard week.

On Thursday morning (today) is the 787 parked on the north side still there? Sounds like it will be operating flight 65 today.

bb
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:43 pm

Yes it is still parked there, however, it does not look like it has been touched. But now JAL66 is not coming to San Diego and actually returned to Haneda instead of Narita after 2 hours in flight towards SAN. So now there will be no aircraft inbound for the next JAL 65 flight. Curious what caused that diversion and if JAL65 will make it off the ground today.
 
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:24 pm

alexrg wrote:
Do you have a link to the flight? I couldn't find anything on Flightaware or FR24.

UPDATE: There was no JL charter SAN-HKG today. JL65 got cancelled today (Wednesday) and the 788 operating it got parked on the charter tarmac. I'm curious to know where you got that info though.


Thanks for the correction. I overheard the agents in the Admirals Club discussing a flight to Hong Kong leaving that evening, which seemed to be confirmed by the large number of Chinese tourists who were being escorted around the airport by some guy in a suit who looked like the type of guide you'd find on a group tour. It's entirely possible I misinterpreted the whole thing and I assumed the 788 was there because of what I overheard (confirmation bias). My apologies for the error.


No worries, I was just curious as to your source. All those pax you saw may have been the ones who were going to go to NRT on the cancelled JL flight(?) I know that JL markets the flight for pax connecting in NRT to other Asian destinations, which would make sense with all the Chinese pax you saw.

As for JL, it sounds like a bad few days, hopefully not anything to bad (besides cancelled flights and a few mx problems).
flickr.com/sandiegoplanespotter
 
amadorE175
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:30 pm

SANFan wrote:
Speaking of taxiways, I don't know if this has been discussed -- I don't think so -- but apparently the airport is going to build a Taxiway Alpha pretty soon; it's in the budget. Essentially it will be a 'siding' south of and parallel to Bravo running from B6 nearly to Delta (the former diagonal runway.) It will apparently offer a pass-around for opposing-direction traffic on B and will be important when the T1 rebuild project happens.

Also, somewhere in the ADP (Airport Development Plan), there is a project to relocate B (to the south) to provide more separation from the active and to eliminate the Lindy Hop! I apologize that I can't provide direct links or pix or more details; it's sometimes quite difficult (for me) to find specific things on SAN.org.


I didn't know about Taxiway Alpha. Seems like a good opportunity to see move planes moving around from Harbor Drive. That's never a bad thing. With them moving Bravo south, does that mean that they'll be paving over some the least tern ovals? I'll be sad about the Lindy Hop going away but it's probably better if we can avoid having planes cross an active runway if we can help it.

With the commuter terminal coming down, I wonder where the Authority will put their offices. Somewhere in the new T1?
 
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SANFan
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:36 pm

amadorE175 wrote:
I didn't know about Taxiway Alpha. Seems like a good opportunity to see move planes moving around from Harbor Drive. That's never a bad thing. With them moving Bravo south, does that mean that they'll be paving over some the least tern ovals? I'll be sad about the Lindy Hop going away but it's probably better if we can avoid having planes cross an active runway if we can help it.

With the commuter terminal coming down, I wonder where the Authority will put their offices. Somewhere in the new T1?

I know the SDCRAA is aware of and concerned about the protected terns and will do what is needed to safeguard them -- either where they are or relo them. I don't know if decisions about the issue have been made, either by the airport folks or Fish and Game or whomever is in charge. In the meantime, the airport planners continue to work around the situation.

One of the maps included in the ADP (or somewhere at SAN.org) shows the future airport offices to be located in 2 separate buildings; if I remember correctly, one is to the west of T1W's gate 51, the other somewhere down amongst all the new buildings that will be located east of the new location of T1, kind of where the cell parking lot is now. Also included will be new belly freight facilities, new catering and provisioning facilities, airline vehicle mx facilities and other services located in that area. It's hard to tell what kind of airport/runway visibility there will be when all the dust settles years in the future.

BTW, MT yesterday announced MAN-SEA for next year. I personally am on alert for expected additional announcements from Thomas Cook regarding more U.S - MAN routes to begin next summer. There's plenty of speculation going around about which cities will "win" but I believe SAN is still in the running, and hopefully near the top of the list.

I'm also hopeful that AAG will soon be breaking their recent silence regarding new route announcements (none since April!) I realize that is only 3 months but with what we've seen lately from Alaska, over the last year at least, that IMO is quite a dry spell! And we continue to see other cx grabbing un-served or under-served routes -- such as F9 yesterday -- so I feel that AAG needs to keep up! (In addition, next week, WN will extend their bookable schedule further into 2018. Who knows what that will reveal.)

Fingers crossed regarding SAN and all of the above!

bb
 
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SANFan
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:05 am

JAL update: looks like #65 did NOT fly today! As of now -- ~6pm Thursday -- it looks like there will be 2 787s flying west to TYO tomorrow. The first is scheduled to depart SAN at 9:30a and the second at ~2pm. (Both are indicated as flt #65 but we know that will change.)

bb
 
jacob789456
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:29 pm

Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:48 pm

SANFan wrote:
JAL update: looks like #65 did NOT fly today! As of now -- ~6pm Thursday -- it looks like there will be 2 787s flying west to TYO tomorrow. The first is scheduled to depart SAN at 9:30a and the second at ~2pm. (Both are indicated as flt #65 but we know that will change.)

bb


The 787 is still dead on the ramp. Not sure what their plan is, but it is not leaving at 9:30AM.
 
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SANFan
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:59 pm

jacob789456 wrote:
SANFan wrote:
JAL update: looks like #65 did NOT fly today! As of now -- ~6pm Thursday -- it looks like there will be 2 787s flying west to TYO tomorrow. The first is scheduled to depart SAN at 9:30a and the second at ~2pm. (Both are indicated as flt #65 but we know that will change.)
bb

The 787 is still dead on the ramp. Not sure what their plan is, but it is not leaving at 9:30AM.

I forgot to add to my post that the info I reported yesterday at 6pm was from FlightAware.

Wow! I sure hope everything is ok at JAL. I haven't checked yet this morning but I wonder if there is a normal #66/65 turn happening today?

Something just occurred to me. I wonder if the extra 787 sitting on the north ramp for a couple of days now might have something to do with ComicCon -- maybe a charter of some sort? Just thinking out loud here...

bb
 
jacob789456
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:15 pm

She just left,

They pulled her over to T2, loaded and left in 45 minutes.

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