Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
redrooster3 wrote:Gate 51 was recently re striped and had a "J-Line" added to aid wide-bodies coming into the gate for proper lining up. They added some unique airplanes to the stop markers, such as the "A350-800, SSJ100/300, MRJ, B787 ALL." So gate 51 can handle all 787 varients, A330, B767 ALL, B757 ALL, A340-300 (Edelweiss) but no -200/500/600, A350-800 (Asiana?) 51 can still hold a 747-400, and 772/L/W.
Gate 48 was taken out of service for the FIs project, therefore, Delta took over Gate 46 from United and DL/UA will share Gate 45 until it becomes a airport gate next year or so. Also last night, gate 45 was re stripped to handle up to a 767-400 for both carriers. Sadly, DL will most likely not be sending much 767s into SAN anymore as their 767A's go to the desert, there are only 3 remaining domestic 767s which are N140LL, N1402A, & N144DA. All due to retire by February of 2018.
Untied has been able to keep the gates they ultimately wanted which was the T2W gates 39-44 and 45 for shared use, whereas, Delta will be moving out of 48-51. The airport reduced both carriers gates down to 6 gates total, Delta will have 47, 46, 38, and 3 other gates TBD.
many321 wrote:SSJ100 that's interesting. Either someone is getting an SSJ100 soon or Interjet is about to start service using one of their Suhkoi's to service SAN.
Jshank83 wrote:So I was watching tv tonight and the subject came up that SAN only has one runway. I had no clue, as I have never been to SAN before and have not really looked into SAN much. I also know they have limitations on when they can have take offs because of noise. So my question is, how much capacity do they have? As in, they already have a pretty good amount of traffic, how much more could they handle?
Also, has San Diego looked into building another airport or is the current setup good enough? It looks like there isn't room for another runway.
c933103 wrote:humm... what do you guys think about the upcoming launch of Hainan's PVG-TIJ and its attractiveness to San Diego population?
SANAV8R wrote:Congrats Lufthansa! Will they continue Edelweiss and Condor flights as well?Jshank83 wrote:So I was watching tv tonight and the subject came up that SAN only has one runway. I had no clue, as I have never been to SAN before and have not really looked into SAN much. I also know they have limitations on when they can have take offs because of noise. So my question is, how much capacity do they have? As in, they already have a pretty good amount of traffic, how much more could they handle?
Also, has San Diego looked into building another airport or is the current setup good enough? It looks like there isn't room for another runway.
Yes, there have been quite a few proposals over the years. Most vocally a group has tried to propose using (either solely or jointly with the Marines like Yuma) MCAS Miramar or more recently a site at MCB Camp Pendleton. There's also been proposals for Boulevard which is far east of the City and another at Brown Field (either by itself or a joint binational airport with Tijuana that was mostly shelved after the CBX opened). And a floating airport like Kansai has also been waved around.
There is no room for a second runway. Infrastructure around the airport as well as terrain has limited this.c933103 wrote:humm... what do you guys think about the upcoming launch of Hainan's PVG-TIJ and its attractiveness to San Diego population?
While they could market it to the San Diego population who would like a flight to China without the hassle of LAX, it is mostly marketed to growing business traffic between Mexico and China, with a lot of centered around maquiladoras in Baja. It'd be interesting to see the demographics and traffic patterns of US origin CBX passengers and how many use TIJ to connect at say MEX to other countries and if they'd respond to international flights from TIJ. I've long thought a carrier could use TIJ to connect Asia with Latin America since transit visas would be much easier for most citizens to obtain for Mexico and the carriers could market it as having the benefit of having a port of entry for the U.S. at the airport via CBX.
SANAV8R wrote:Congrats Lufthansa! Will they continue Edelweiss and Condor flights as well?
Coronado990 wrote:SANAV8R wrote:Congrats Lufthansa! Will they continue Edelweiss and Condor flights as well?
Edelweiss has committed to an extended season in 2018, however I cannot see Condor overlapping with LH on the FRA-SAN flights. Congrats to SAN. Good things come to people who wait and I have been waiting for 50 years for this flight. Very proud of San Diego and the international recognition it has been getting lately.
san747 wrote:Confirmation of LH service start date and equipment: Mainline A340-300, beginning March 25, 2018.
redrooster3 wrote:We finally got our SAN-TPA non stop per Southwest Airlines! Starts January 8th.
SANFan wrote:we will only be seeing JL, BA and LH widebodies (can you believe that!!!!??) plus lots of Mexico arrivals. Assuming both Edelweiss and Condor continue to operate in 2018, things will start getting interesting next April -- when WK is scheduled to begin their flights -- and I'm not sure when DE is supposed to begin flights next year.
And who knows (well Hampton probably does, but he's not saying) what else might happen next year?bb
SANFan wrote:The domestic scene at SAN is sure getting fun to watch, seeing both of our Focus City-carriers dueling it out at snatching new routes, while F9, G4 and NK have even made a few surprising moves as well.bb
SANMAN66 wrote:SANFan wrote:we will only be seeing JL, BA and LH widebodies (can you believe that!!!!??) plus lots of Mexico arrivals. Assuming both Edelweiss and Condor continue to operate in 2018, things will start getting interesting next April -- when WK is scheduled to begin their flights -- and I'm not sure when DE is supposed to begin flights next year.
And who knows (well Hampton probably does, but he's not saying) what else might happen next year?bb
I'm really hoping Condor will stick around, but I think LH has driven them out. I have a feeling that Edelweiss will
stay, (keep in mind that they're part of the Lufthansa group), our Condor bird will probably be the one that goes
to PHX when DE starts PHX next year. I'm just wondering where's the advertising for Edelweiss? I haven't seen
any around town unless they are marketing this flight in Europe. My guess for the next European airline would
be Norwegian, they seem to be expanding very fast in the U.S., and possibly on the Asian side KE, since they
recently signed a JV with Delta. Could Skyteam send a couple of int'l carriers our way like Oneworld? On the
domestic side of things, I'm looking for that SAN-RDU flight. I've been very impressed by our airport!!
SANAV8R wrote:Kettner & Hawthorn above go-car, right as you cross the train tracks behind the Hilton Garden Inn is a giant billboard for Edelweiss/Zurich. Also KYXY has been talking about it. I remember a Condor billboard also at the corner of Euclid & Home Ave in City Heights which I thought was odd.
SANFan wrote:Has anyone checked lately? The last time I looked, there was no easy way to book a trip on WK originating in SAN! In fact, during the (I think) May SDCRAA board meeting, one of the board members brought up the possibility that the airline would sell trips originating on this end. In any case, I'm pretty sure that Edelweiss figures on selling at least a majority of their seats for Zurich-originating travelers! (And I also agree that WK will stay in SAN.)
bb
Coronado990 wrote:I find it odd that WK would have billboards up to advertise their service but not be able to sell out of SAN. That would mean the first flight of the season returning back to ZRH would go out empty. Maybe that would explain the first trip of the 2018 season. The schedule shows it will start on a Tuesday May 8th and arrive SAN at 9:45pm with a quick 90 minute turnaround. The 11:15pm pushback will give them a tight 15 minutes to beat the 11:30pm curfew! The next Tuesday has a more normal late afternoon/early evening schedule like what we have been currently seeing. After those two odd Tuesday flights, it reverts back to Monday and Friday's throughout the summer and into the fall ending in late October.
SANFan wrote:There was also a strong rumor late last year that Thomas Cook was looking at adding MAN-SAN service soon -- maybe 2018?.
bb
axiom wrote:You can (could?) book TPA-ZRH-XXX flights on the Swiss site, since all WK flights carry the Swiss code as well. Usually the WK site will redirect you if you try US POS, but it should be very easy. Wonder what gives.
Love how SAN and TPA seem to be living parallel air service development lives, and now get connected.
May we both see MT in 2018.
User001 wrote:Christoph Debus, the head of Thomas Cook did very recently indicate MAN-SAN was a target route, but no timescale given.
MT are expected to take another A330 next summer, so, there is a chance we could see the route. MAN-TPA is also rumoured.
User001 wrote:Christoph Debus, the head of Thomas Cook did very recently indicate MAN-SAN was a target route, but no timescale given.
MT are expected to take another A330 next summer, so, there is a chance we could see the route. MAN-TPA is also rumoured.
FLYKTPA wrote:According to a user on this forum, SAN, MSY and TPA are all contenders for a flight to MAN for MT's Summer 2018 schedule.
SANFan wrote:FLYKTPA wrote:According to a user on this forum, SAN, MSY and TPA are all contenders for a flight to MAN for MT's Summer 2018 schedule.
Interesting reading, FLYK'; thanx for the link. It looks like there's a real possibility (given the currently known skeds for 2018) of perhaps 2 new, twice-weekly routes from MAN by MT next year. I assume many of us here on A.net will be watching and waiting to see how this plays out. Given that the lead-time lately for announcements of new int'l routes seems to be about a year, maybe we'll hear pretty soon if MT is in fact going to add a new destination or two in the U.S. next summer.
On another subject, given what WN is doing in early 2018 at SAN (see earlier post), I expect we might hear something pretty soon from AAG regarding their early-2018 plans. We already know they are adding SAN-DAL to their route map in February '18.
Will AS jump on anything else: new routes currently unserved from SAN (e.g. RDU, ORF, SBA, MZT, SBP, GDL); some of the recently-added WN routes such as IND, GEG, TPA and MKE; add frequency/capacity to some of AS's existing SAN routes like BOS; or new routes for AAG that are already served by others, like JFK, OAK, ELP, PHX, RNO or DTW? IMO, there's still lots of growth ahead for AAG here in SAN and I fully expect they will keep responding to the pressure being applied by WN, F9 and NK.
I haven't seen official confirmation yet from SDCRAA or SDIA, but AAG apparently has a big move coming in 1H2018 -- relocating to T2E with their partner, AA! Alaska and Horizon should gain some much-needed space (read: gates!) to ease their expansion and continued growth at Lindbergh.
bb
Midwestindy wrote:SAN has been on a role lately, I'm impressed looking through this thread...
One thing to note is that WN, at least for now, is keeping the IND-SAN route very seasonal (JUN-AUG) so there is an opportunity for AS to add that during the winter/fall/spring with no competition...
ORF seems unlikely considering ORF doesn't have AS to SEA yet
GEG could also be served when the WN seasonal flight ends as well
Out of the unserved routes mentioned, at least for Q1, ORF has highest O&D followed by IND, RDU all of which have enough O&D to make a 737 work... so my guess is as good as any.
flymco753 wrote:So much is happening at SAN, it's awesome to read up on it and I'm very happy to see that SAN has good things coming.
I wanted to ask, what's this curfew thing that I hear about with SAN? Someone please elaborate.
SANFan wrote:Will AS jump on anything else: new routes currently unserved from SAN (e.g. RDU, ORF, SBA, MZT, SBP, GDL); some of the recently-added WN routes such as IND, GEG, TPA and MKE; add frequency/capacity to some of AS's existing SAN routes like BOS; or new routes for AAG that are already served by others, like JFK, OAK, ELP, PHX, RNO or DTW? IMO, there's still lots of growth ahead for AAG here in SAN and I fully expect they will keep responding to the pressure being applied by WN, F9 and NK.
I haven't seen official confirmation yet from SDCRAA or SDIA, but AAG apparently has a big move coming in 1H2018 -- relocating to T2E with their partner, AA! Alaska and Horizon should gain some much-needed space (read: gates!) to ease their expansion and continued growth at Lindbergh. bb
flymco753 wrote:The curfew I would guess would be the thing that is holding back AS from starting DTW. The most ideal flight time would be a red-eye departure from SAN to DTW, and a morning departure from DTW to SAN, if they left before the curfew, you'd get into DTW at 4-ish in the morning, that's not so ideal.
timf wrote:I'm not sure AS would want to pay the fine even with incentives though. As the route matures, I would definitely think they would pay it. There is also a risk AS is taking, if they add SAN-DTW, NK might jump on it as well, so that would be an increase from monopolized 2x daily in the fall/winter/spring to probably 4x daily in the fall/winter/spring and up to 6x in the summer, my calculations though show the city pair is growing, so there could be room for more flights but I don't know about it being that close together.flymco753 wrote:The curfew I would guess would be the thing that is holding back AS from starting DTW. The most ideal flight time would be a red-eye departure from SAN to DTW, and a morning departure from DTW to SAN, if they left before the curfew, you'd get into DTW at 4-ish in the morning, that's not so ideal.
Delta runs a red-eye at times (including currently) that departs at 10:30 PM and typically arrives around 5:30 AM. If they can make it work, I'm sure Alaska could.
flymco753 wrote:timf wrote:I'm not sure AS would want to pay the fine even with incentives though. As the route matures, I would definitely think they would pay it. There is also a risk AS is taking, if they add SAN-DTW, NK might jump on it as well, so that would be an increase from monopolized 2x daily in the fall/winter/spring to probably 4x daily in the fall/winter/spring and up to 6x in the summer, my calculations though show the city pair is growing, so there could be room for more flights but I don't know about it being that close together.flymco753 wrote:The curfew I would guess would be the thing that is holding back AS from starting DTW. The most ideal flight time would be a red-eye departure from SAN to DTW, and a morning departure from DTW to SAN, if they left before the curfew, you'd get into DTW at 4-ish in the morning, that's not so ideal.
Delta runs a red-eye at times (including currently) that departs at 10:30 PM and typically arrives around 5:30 AM. If they can make it work, I'm sure Alaska could.
Coronado990 wrote:Filling in the American Southwest and Baja California plus Cancun would really give AS an edge. If I was them (and I'm not) I would add ELP and OKC non-stops with E175's. Then add the competitive markets of TUS, PHX, SAT and COS to make them the go-to airline in the region. In Baja, they could add LTO and LAP complimenting their frequent SJD service making SAN an important gateway to Baja. Last I checked, there are no TIJ-LTO flights so there is no CBX competition on this segment. And speaking of TIJ, there is only one non-stop a week on Saturdays from TIJ-CUN. I think San Diego must be the largest metro in the US without non-stops to the resort so I am surprised Alaska doesn't fly there already.
ANC would be an excellent add for AS. Even if it was once a week in the summer. Maybe a ANC-SAN-SJD continuation flight.
flymco753 wrote:The curfew I would guess would be the thing that is holding back AS from starting DTW. The most ideal flight time would be a red-eye departure from SAN to DTW, and a morning departure from DTW to SAN, if they left before the curfew, you'd get into DTW at 4-ish in the morning, that's not so ideal.
flymco753 wrote:We'll see, I know that in the next 365 days, someone will announce it, either AS or NK, both seem to be as likely as the other.
MAH4546 wrote:Not surprisingly, Condor has pulled SANFRA from the GDS for next summer.
axiom wrote:^It's perfectly reasonable to think that Thomas Cook would want to take advantage of all of the infrastructure they've established at SAN. I imagine the costs were low (outsourced everything), but that's still got to be a consideration -- relationships, partners, known operational variables. They run a lean operation.
MAH4546 wrote:Not surprisingly, Condor has pulled SANFRA from the GDS for next summer.