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SANFan
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San Diego Thread 2016-2017

Fri Jun 24, 2016 8:59 pm

It’s been a pretty exciting time here in SAN recently so I thought I’d list highlights that I’m aware of. Any corrections or additions are of course welcomed and encouraged.

This summer:
 >BA flying the Queen here daily since late March. Will it stay or what WILL the service end up being, starting this fall?
 >G4 has started 2 new routes – ELP & SCK – in addition to continuing BLI service, and all are expected to stay year-round.
 >AC/rouge is now flying double-daily to YYZ, plus YVR (seasonal as of now but will it perhaps stick around?) All flights will op with A319s.
 >From the when-it-rains-it-pours department, WS is also flying to YVR, 3x weekly and I believe it IS scheduled to be all year! The route will be served by 737s.
 >B6 has added SAN-FLL service, year-round, & the first addition of a destination from SAN in a long time! Unexpected first-time-ever service & very welcome!
 >WN has FINALLY made STL year-round (!) and also threw MKE in as a daily year-round market as well! They’re also flying 3x daily to BWI, for the summer, for the first time ever.
 >AA has doubled up on their JFK service, at least for the summer. Nice to see them noticing that they were the 3rd cx (ranked by # flights/seats) in the market.
 >DL surprised most everyone by adding a new p-2-p route, LAS, starting in Dec. I believe it’s supposed to stick around as permanent & consists of 3 daily r/t! ????
 >Finally, and definitely not least, our friends at AS have certainly not forgotten about their new focus city hiding down here in the corner! FAT service is now at 3 daily r/t, 3+ new daily flights to SJC have just started, and a brand new twice-weekly ski route to HDN (Steamboat Springs/Hayden) will be added in mid-December!

This brings us to 2017 and I’ll continue with AS….
 >Three more new flights, to SMF, will begin next March! That should put AS at a very impressive 19 destinations and at least 33/34 daily departures at SAN!!! (Sure sounds like ‘focus city’ is an appropriate label for AS’s 5th largest station!)
 >DE (Condor) has announced nonstop to FRA starting next May; up to 3 weekly flights for part of the summer.
 >Also just announced, Edelweiss (WK) will start flying to ZRH in June 2017! All of a sudden, we’re at 3 nonstop European destinations out of Lindbergh Field!
 >Sometime in 2017, B6 is scheduled to upgrade their SAN-JFK/BOS routes with their premium-class Mint service. More positive news from ‘Blue for SAN!

In not such good news, it appears that Volaris is axing their SAN-MEX route sometime (exactly when?) and I’m not sure if they’ve already dropped GDL. If so, that of course would mean SAN loses another cx (besides Seaport…) Neither has been even close to a major player here but, IMO, it’s always unfortunate, even when it's not too surprising, when an airport loses any carrier.

bb
Last edited by atcsundevil on Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Thread title updated
 
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kgaiflyer
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:15 pm

>BA flying the Queen here daily since late March. Will it stay or what WILL the service end up being, starting this fall?

Baffled by this one. Can you explain more fully (. . . and I'm a frequent SAN visitor :( ).
 
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SANFan
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:33 pm

Hey 'flyer, sorry 'bout that.

I meant to say 'BA has been flying the Queen of the Skies (read: 747)' to SAN since March!

No, Her Royal Highness has not flown daily to SAN since March! :oops: My bad.

bb
 
tmiw
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:37 pm

I thought BA was switching to the 777-300ER after this summer?
 
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SANFan
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:54 pm

tmiw wrote:
I thought BA was switching to the 777-300ER after this summer?

That's the way it is scheduled now but remember, the upgrade for this summer was originally announced in Sep of '15 to be the 773 but was changed last November to be the 747!

Traffic in the past has definitely decreased after October but that decrease is lessening each year, In 2015, February was the lowest month (LF of 73%) but January & March were around 10 points higher. In other words, the traffic between SAN and LON does not disappear for the winter, but it is certainly less than in the summer.

Chances are good that the change to the 773 will occur in November, as currently scheduled, but I personally wouldn't rule out other possibilities.

bb
 
jb1087xna
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:32 pm

Very specific question, but is the DL 9am departure to ATL going to be year round? I've been out to SAN several times in the last year and have never noticed that as an option on the return leg, but notice they now offer one this summer. It's a little more comfortable than the ~6-7 am departure. I'm planning a trip to SAN in October and DL hasn't updated their schedules that far out yet.
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flymco753
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sat Jun 25, 2016 12:39 am

What needs to happen is a SAN-DTW route on Spirit or Alaska. This route keeps growing and there needs to be a competitor.
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crownvic
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:40 am

I had the lovely experience of connecting on WN in SAN last month. What a frustrating experience, as my connecting gate from one WN flight to the other was just a few gates away but I was forced to exit the gate area and re-enter again down a ways and go thru TSA screening all over again. I pre paid with WN for early check in and because of the delays at TSA I was the last one on the plane with the door closing right behind me. So much for A boarding, I was stuck in a middle seat for a transcon flight back to MCO. Luckily block time was 3hrs 55 mins. I called WN and they were nice enough to refund my 15.00 for early check in. Why in the hell do you have to exit and re-enter on a connection with the same airline just a few gates away??? HORRIBLE
 
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SANFan
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:24 pm

jb1087xna wrote:
Very specific question, but is the DL 9am departure to ATL going to be year round? I've been out to SAN several times in the last year and have never noticed that as an option on the return leg, but notice they now offer one this summer. It's a little more comfortable than the ~6-7 am departure. I'm planning a trip to SAN in October and DL hasn't updated their schedules that far out yet.

I thought that 9am-ish flight has been around permanently, and for years. I'm pretty sure it sometimes ops with 767s. There have always been multiple morning departures but, going back thru my records -- turn skeds I've created for years now -- I see that sometimes there's been a 9am, sometimes it's moved back to 8, or forward to 10 or even 11am.

The current SAN-ATL a.m. sked shows a 6:15a 767 departure, 7:40a (757), 9:00am (757 flt #2130) and 10:42am.

However, looking at last October, DL's a.m. ATL-departures were (more or less) at 6:15, 7:30 & 10:58. Perhaps the 9a departure is now more of a summer/high-season add.

Hope it works out ok for you in the fall. (BTW, I assume you want DL; WN also has a daily SAN-ATL r/t but of course the times are always changing on it. Looks like this October it's a 6:20am departure...)

bb
 
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SANFan
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:38 pm

flymco753 wrote:
What needs to happen is a SAN-DTW route on Spirit or Alaska. This route keeps growing and there needs to be a competitor.

I couldn't agree with you more. From SAN, it's the only DL hub without competition, plus it's got healthy O&D numbers; the 2 most obvious cx to start competing service from SAN would, I agree, be AS or NK.

If AS keeps growing SAN, I would hope cities such as DTW, PHL & NYC would be on their radar as potential destinations. (Plus, IND of course... But that's for another thread.)

Perhaps, if NK has finished adding almost every possible destination in their network from LAX, they can return to growing SAN a bit more. Their last add here was ORD, so DTW doesn't seem that out-of-the-question?

bb
 
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Tomassjc
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:28 pm

In not such good news, it appears that Volaris is axing their SAN-MEX route sometime (exactly when?) and I’m not sure if they’ve already dropped GDL. If so, that of course would mean SAN loses another cx (besides Seaport…) Neither has been even close to a major player here but, IMO, it’s always unfortunate, even when it's not too surprising, when an airport loses any carrier.

bb[/quote]

I'm wondering if this has anything to do with the CBX crossing at TIJ and it's success (?) It seems as if Y4 is competing with their own service from TIJ. Aside from the beach flights to SJD and PVR, has there really ever been any successful Mexico service from SAN? Even prior to the CBX opening?
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barney captain
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:54 pm

crownvic wrote:
I had the lovely experience of connecting on WN in SAN last month. What a frustrating experience, as my connecting gate from one WN flight to the other was just a few gates away but I was forced to exit the gate area and re-enter again down a ways and go thru TSA screening all over again. I pre paid with WN for early check in and because of the delays at TSA I was the last one on the plane with the door closing right behind me. So much for A boarding, I was stuck in a middle seat for a transcon flight back to MCO. Luckily block time was 3hrs 55 mins. I called WN and they were nice enough to refund my 15.00 for early check in. Why in the hell do you have to exit and re-enter on a connection with the same airline just a few gates away??? HORRIBLE


The WN terminal in SAN is probably the worst in our system - for all the reasons you mention. It is an overcrowded cluster I like to refer to as "The Thunderdome".
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kgaiflyer
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:03 pm

"Why in the hell do you have to exit and re-enter on a connection with the same airline just a few gates away??? HORRIBLE"

There are two sides to every story. For instance, WN does a BWI-SAN-LAS where the LAS-bound are expected to exit the plane with a pass of some kind at SAN. But noon to 8pm Fridays and Saturdays Terminal 1 is a madhouse with 30 minute lines at all the concessions - even the loo. If we could get outside of the banjo, we'd at least have a *chance* at getting a candy bar or a magazine. To that end, I wouldn't mind walking from one part of the airport to another
 
altbg
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:15 pm

crownvic wrote:
I had the lovely experience of connecting on WN in SAN last month. What a frustrating experience, as my connecting gate from one WN flight to the other was just a few gates away but I was forced to exit the gate area and re-enter again down a ways and go thru TSA screening all over again. I pre paid with WN for early check in and because of the delays at TSA I was the last one on the plane with the door closing right behind me. So much for A boarding, I was stuck in a middle seat for a transcon flight back to MCO. Luckily block time was 3hrs 55 mins. I called WN and they were nice enough to refund my 15.00 for early check in. Why in the hell do you have to exit and re-enter on a connection with the same airline just a few gates away??? HORRIBLE


Let me guess, you arrived at gates 1-2 and had to get over to 3-10 (or the other way around)? I have never been in that terminal myself but from looking at pictures and maps online it seems there is no connector between the two terminal sections post-security. So this isn't any different than moving between two different terminals that are not connected at any other airport.

I agree though, this is a pretty terrible setup but lots of improvements are planned for SAN. Let's hope we get to see this before we have to bite the dust.
 
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SANFan
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:03 pm

No question that the WN situation in SAN is less than desirable.

For an operation of its size -- 11 fully-committed gates, over 100 daily departures, and with lots of connections offered -- things are very crowded and, as pointed out, the operation is split into 2 separate sterile areas. I know that WN is well aware of the bad situation but apparently there is not an affordable and quick fix. It seems the carrier is willing to wait several years for the new T1 to be finished.

The one thing I don't understand is why they haven't been able to work out something to move their own pax between their East rotunda (gates 3 thru 10) and the East annex (gates 1, 1A & 2?) There must be some way to build a sterile corridor between the 2 areas even though WN has their huge catering/supply building right there; even an escalator to the roof, over, and back down seems possible. But involved and expensive.

So, how about a shuttle bus running constantly between say, gate 1 and gate 4, maybe even 2 busses. This seems to me to be very doable. Surely WN could afford to lease a couple of those small rent-a-car shuttle busses and find space for some loading areas and doors in the terminals. Never understood why they wouldn't at least do this...

I feel sorry for you folks, and all the others, who are forced to deal with the existing conditions belonging to SAN's largest carrier. Especially when T2W -- both old and new -- are sooooo nice...

bb
 
757SanCam
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jun 26, 2016 1:18 am

I feel the pain of SWA passengers out of T1. As a UA ff, the move to T2W from T1 was like moving from a Yugo to a BMW. T1 is awful, and the replacement can't come soon enough. I fly SWA on rare occasions and dread the experience of an overcrowded terminal.
 
crownvic
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:35 pm

I find it interesting reading in reference to difficult connections with WN at SAN..Yes my connection was from LAS I believe gate 1 or 2. Based on insider comments it seems that this has been an ongoing frustration with WN connecting flights there for sometime. Funny when I called WN to complain the agent acted quite surprised and never heard of that issue before. I will say he was most apologetic and refunded the whopping $15.00 right away LOL
 
PSAjet17
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jun 26, 2016 11:48 pm

crownvic wrote:
I find it interesting reading in reference to difficult connections with WN at SAN..Yes my connection was from LAS I believe gate 1 or 2. Based on insider comments it seems that this has been an ongoing frustration with WN connecting flights there for sometime. Funny when I called WN to complain the agent acted quite surprised and never heard of that issue before. I will say he was most apologetic and refunded the whopping $15.00 right away LOL

When you called WN you were not calling the local airport ticket counter but one of their reservation centers. So that reservation agent probably had not heard about connection problems at SAN. That was one of the most difficult things about working in a res center is the callers assume you are the people at the ticket counter and often can get irate about why you can't just go in the back room and see if their bag is there or give you other information that can only happen at the ticket counter or gate.
 
crownvic
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:27 am

When you called WN you were not calling the local airport ticket counter but one of their reservation centers. So that reservation agent probably had not heard about connection problems at SAN. That was one of the most difficult things about working in a res center is the callers assume you are the people at the ticket counter and often can get irate about why you can't just go in the back room and see if their bag is there or give you other information that can only happen at the ticket counter or gate.[/quote]

Really?????? Glad you pointed that out...Yes I am well aware of the fact I was calling a national reservation center and not the airport, I just found it funny that no one else ever brought it up with that particular agent.. I would imagine the airlines give agents that answer consumer issues on the phone a hot sheet or heads up on possible repeat consumer concerns...I find it very hard to believe I was the first on that incident...
 
Viscount724
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Mon Jun 27, 2016 12:56 am

SANFan wrote:
No question that the WN situation in SAN is less than desirable.

For an operation of its size -- 11 fully-committed gates, over 100 daily departures, and with lots of connections offered -- things are very crowded and, as pointed out, the operation is split into 2 separate sterile areas.


Considering SAN's location I'm surprised there are a lot of connections. Where are people connecting? Except for Hawaii, it would seem that almost anywhere would be a backhaul to/from SAN with many much more direct connecting options.
 
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flymco753
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:50 pm

SANFan wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
What needs to happen is a SAN-DTW route on Spirit or Alaska. This route keeps growing and there needs to be a competitor.

I couldn't agree with you more. From SAN, it's the only DL hub without competition, plus it's got healthy O&D numbers; the 2 most obvious cx to start competing service from SAN would, I agree, be AS or NK.

If AS keeps growing SAN, I would hope cities such as DTW, PHL & NYC would be on their radar as potential destinations. (Plus, IND of course... But that's for another thread.)

Perhaps, if NK has finished adding almost every possible destination in their network from LAX, they can return to growing SAN a bit more. Their last add here was ORD, so DTW doesn't seem that out-of-the-question?

bb


I agree they're definitely not far fetched, but of course it's on both ends that we need support so SAN and DTW passengers as well as their airport authorities. I wouldn't mind pitching DTW-SAN to either of these airlines. I assume as NK purchases more Airbus than it could happen, Alaska also wants to strengthen their west coast network and become the west coast airline, so you never know but it really should happen sooner or later so airlines can stop charging a premium for SAN or DTW.
Whether you're here on business, returning home, or visiting our world class attractions, welcome to Orlando and Central Florida...
 
ericm2031
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:37 pm

Viscount724 wrote:

Considering SAN's location I'm surprised there are a lot of connections. Where are people connecting? Except for Hawaii, it would seem that almost anywhere would be a backhaul to/from SAN with many much more direct connecting options.


I believe WN likes to route more connections through SAN as opposed to LAX because most of the LAX routes can survive on mostly O&D and they are very limited in terms of additional anything in LAX, especially with the construction. So it's acting as the same to WN as LAX is for AA/DL/UA. I remember reading an article that for a short while during the construction, they turned off the ability for LAX connections and they said their load factors in LAX held up very well.
 
futureorthopod
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:50 pm

Glad to hear of these updates. I love Sunny Diego and I miss living there. One day I will return to Cali after training is complete. Sunny Diego is top on my list. I just wish there was a way to expand/move that airport to allow it to truly expand.
 
SANMAN66
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Tue Jun 28, 2016 4:37 am

I know I've been late to the party but my computer's been on the blink, I've been lurking lately.
Twice I've been out at Liberty Station and got to see the BA 744 takeoff. One of those times the BA 744 tookoff Late at 1:15am! I don't know how much of a fine they paid after curfew. I have really been impressed how much SAN has grown lately, especially gaining Condor and Edelweiss Air next summer. I remember flying on a Condor DC-10 back in 1984 from LAX to FRA.
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SANFan
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:16 pm

SANMAN66 wrote:
I know I've been late to the party but my computer's been on the blink, I've been lurking lately.


Hey L! It's been A WHILE! Glad to see you posting again.

Yeah, things are happening around here finally, eh? Eight new routes so far in 2016, including finally getting service to YVR back!

Take care and glad to see you back - keep it coming!

bb
 
SANMAN66
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:45 pm

I'm glad to be back! With all these new routes coming up I couldn't lurk forever. The YVR flights spark my interest:
for awhile we couldn't get another YVR flight, now we have both WestJet and AC (Rouge) albeit on seasonal basis doing
SAN-YVR. I wonder why the sudden interest in SAN-YVR?
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FLIHGH
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:34 pm

San Diego is also getting Mint 321s to Boston AND JFK...dates TBD.
 
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SANFan
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:57 pm

FLIHGH wrote:
San Diego is also getting Mint 321s to Boston AND JFK...dates TBD.

Yes, as mentioned in the OP...

Re: the dramatic return of SAN-YVR, SANMAN', I have a feeling one of the 2 cx learned that the other was going to start the route, and didn't want to be left out. (Remind you of the SAN-YYC 'battle' of a few years ago, between the same 2 cx?)

I really see no reason for AC to be seasonal -- and apparently neither does WS -- so I wonder how long before AC/rouge keeps the route op'ing year-round? Unfortunately, with the current schedule, the SAN-YVR-SAN service is tied in with the 2nd SAN-YYZ flight which is probably going to disappear (as it's scheduled to) sometime this Fall.

Actual competition sure would be wonderful but we'll have to see how it plays out...

bb
 
SANflanker
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Tue Jun 28, 2016 10:53 pm

crownvic wrote:
I had the lovely experience of connecting on WN in SAN last month. What a frustrating experience, as my connecting gate from one WN flight to the other was just a few gates away but I was forced to exit the gate area and re-enter again down a ways and go thru TSA screening all over again. I pre paid with WN for early check in and because of the delays at TSA I was the last one on the plane with the door closing right behind me. So much for A boarding, I was stuck in a middle seat for a transcon flight back to MCO. Luckily block time was 3hrs 55 mins. I called WN and they were nice enough to refund my 15.00 for early check in. Why in the hell do you have to exit and re-enter on a connection with the same airline just a few gates away??? HORRIBLE


Connecting between gates 1-2 and 3-10 sucks but if you are in the main terminal it's actually very simple.
 
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FLIHGH
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Wed Jun 29, 2016 1:35 am

SANFan wrote:
FLIHGH wrote:
San Diego is also getting Mint 321s to Boston AND JFK...dates TBD.

Yes, as mentioned in the OP...

Re: the dramatic return of SAN-YVR, SANMAN', I have a feeling one of the 2 cx learned that the other was going to start the route, and didn't want to be left out. (Remind you of the SAN-YYC 'battle' of a few years ago, between the same 2 cx?)

I really see no reason for AC to be seasonal -- and apparently neither does WS -- so I wonder how long before AC/rouge keeps the route op'ing year-round? Unfortunately, with the current schedule, the SAN-YVR-SAN service is tied in with the 2nd SAN-YYZ flight which is probably going to disappear (as it's scheduled to) sometime this Fall.

Actual competition sure would be wonderful but we'll have to see how it plays out...

bb

Missed that. My fault.
 
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lindy field
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Wed Jun 29, 2016 6:42 pm

Hi all,

I just returned home after some extended travel. It's pretty exciting news to have two new European carriers next year coming to SAN. I just looked at the schedules. It looks as though Condor will be arriving in mid-afternoon and will depart before BA's arrival, but Edelweiss has a later schedule and will overlap with BA. I just copied this from another thread:

Operational schedule varies in May 2017. Above is effective 03JUN17

eff 12JUN17 Zurich – San Diego 2 weekly A340-300
WK012/LX8012 ZRH1330 – 1705SAN 343 1
WK012/LX8012 ZRH1405 – 1740SAN 343 5

WK013/LX8013 SAN1845 – 1520+1ZRH 343 1
WK013/LX8013 SAN1910 – 1545+1ZRH 343 5

Is there likely to be any trouble servicing the two European flights at the same time, in terms of gate or ramp space?

Cheers,

Edward
 
fsafsx
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Wed Jun 29, 2016 10:17 pm

San Diego to Flint should become a nonstop on Alaska or Spirit.
 
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SANFan
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Thu Jun 30, 2016 8:02 am

lindy field wrote:
Hi all,
Is there likely to be any trouble servicing the two European flights at the same time, in terms of gate or ramp space?

Hey Lindy', glad to see you on this thread.

I'm pretty sure SAN can handle a 747 and a 343 at the same time (in gates 20 & 22); I don't believe they can service 3 jumbos at the same time (at the 3 FIS gates) but I think the airport folks have an option of remote parking and mobile lounges when needed. Also, since there are gates in T2 able to handle jumbos, I would expect an intl arrival could use one of the 3 FIS-gates to unload pax, then be towed elsewhere for its departure.

Here's hoping (due to int'l growth at SDIA) these contingency plans will be needed in the not-too-distant future!

And another new route from SAN has just been announced. (Mention of it was hidden in another thread about Allegiant expansion.) Starting Sept 29, G4 will start flying between SAN and Provo; the service will be on Thursdays and Sundays and will operate( seasonally?) thru mid-February.

So that's now 9 new routes (so far) this year! Sweet!

bb
 
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SANFan
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:40 pm

fsafsx wrote:
San Diego to Flint should become a nonstop on Alaska or Spirit.

Not a request/hope I've heard before!

According to DOT figures, the daily TOTAL pax traffic between Flint and SAN is right around 25; that puts the existing PDEW at ~13. Even considering leakage, if there is any, it would still be a mighty small number.

Sorry, that route isn't going to happen via AS, NK or any other of the majors. The best (only) chance I see of anything ever between SAN & FNT might be, sometime in the future, a couple of flights a week on Allegiant. This would assume that someday SAN becomes a major destination for the carrier and with a current total of only 4 routes from Lindbergh Field, that seems like a distant dream...

If it's any consolation, one day SAN could possibly see another carrier fly nonstop to DTW, and IMO, the 2 airlines you mentioned, AS and NK, might be considered very good candidates for that.

bb
 
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787fan8
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:57 pm

Are there any chances of HU adding PEK-SAN? HU has been in expansion mode the past 5 years and it wouldn't surprise me if SAN was somewhere in their shortlist.
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SANFan
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:08 am

787fan8 wrote:
Are there any chances of HU adding PEK-SAN? HU has been in expansion mode the past 5 years and it wouldn't surprise me if SAN was somewhere in their shortlist.

In a few recent articles, it's been mentioned that China is certainly 'up there' on SDIA's target list for new SAN-routes. (Along with continuing efforts to secure a carrier to fly to Central or South America from here.)

JL seems to be running at about an 82% LF on their flights to/from San Diego and I'm not sure if that is enough to attract other cx interest or not. Although I would love to see at least one more carrier flying across the Pacific (ok, so it's really "around" the Pacific) I would also hate to jeopardize JAL's success here.

KE is also being discussed on another thread regarding U.S. expansion and SAN has been brought up there -- and no, not just by me! -- as a possible destination from ICN.

One thing I'm pretty sure about is that, just as with BA, JL, DE and WK, the announcement of the next intercontinental carrier to serve Lindbergh will come out of nowhere and be a total surprise! SDIA always holds their cards pretty close, while being as busy and working just as hard as any other airport in their efforts to grow the int'l traffic here.

bb
 
tmiw
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sat Jul 02, 2016 12:44 am

I'd like NZ to fly here with 789s, but I'd imagine they're perfectly fine with their LAX and SFO ops so I doubt that'll happen any time soon.
 
SANAV8R
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:01 am

With all the expansion of intl service, could they not take demolish the remaining NTC structures along McCain and expand the ramp and Terminal 2 to the edge of the water? It'd be good to have a purpose built FIS bank of gates rather than a tack-on addition like they have now? Surely those structures serve no purpose except for Fire Training and aren't historical like the Liberty Station structures. I know the WallyPark area is being zoned for retail.

And I definitely see an Asian carrier being the next to start service. ICN makes the most sense since there is plenty of South Korea-San Diego/Baja business traffic. And although a smaller factor VFR to MNL and SGN would connect well there.

My wild cards are: Norwegian to LGW or CDG (they serve OAK, LAS, LAX why not SAN); Copa to PTY or seasonal AC Rouge to YUL (we already have YVR, YYZ, YYC)
 
SANMAN66
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:05 pm

SANAV8R wrote:
My wild cards are: Norwegian to LGW or CDG (they serve OAK, LAS, LAX why not SAN); Copa to PTY or seasonal AC Rouge to YUL (we already have YVR, YYZ, YYC)


I would say if we got a flight to CDG on Norwegian, that would be nice, but I would think if they started a flight to LGW,
BA would have a cow! I figure that BA ruling the roost here in SAN is being noticed by other carriers. On the Asian side,
My picks would be Hainan or Korean Air.
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sat Jul 02, 2016 10:02 pm

SANAV8R wrote:
With all the expansion of intl service, could they not take demolish the remaining NTC structures along McCain and expand the ramp and Terminal 2 to the edge of the water? It'd be good to have a purpose built FIS bank of gates rather than a tack-on addition like they have now?

I don't think of the current FIS facilities as 'tack-on additions' at all. Gates 20 & 21 were built in 2001, pretty much for BA which started nonstop T7 service to LGW at that time. There were also a very few Mexico flights at the time and the 2 gate facility was more than enough. The facilities fit very nicely in between T1 & T2E and were quite close to the center of the entire terminal complex at SDIA.

At that time, I doubt very few of us envisioned even a nonstop to Asia from SAN, let alone a daily 747 to Europe, and all that has happened since!

As things started happening, a couple of years ago, gate 22 was reconfigured with a direct sterile corridor connecting it to FIS, bringing the total to 3 int'l arrival gates. Not bad and that gave SDIA some breathing room.

If things continue to go crazy, I've already posted what I believe to be active and real-time solutions to the issue of handling even more intercontinental service here.

There is one more possible option that I recall from the days when the T2W (Green Build) addition was being planned several years ago. Does anyone remember some conceptual drawings of the terminal addition that showed a clear-glass, sterile corridor suspended from the high ceiling that could be added to carry int'l arriving pax from the new gates (the 40s and 50s) directly to the existing FIS facilities? (SANMAN' I bet you do.) I believe it was mentioned as a possible future addition if needed and I have no idea if is still something that could be built or not. If so, it could certainly be built quicker than it will take to complete the new T1 with its large FIS complex. (If I can find a link or copies of the renderings, I'll post them here.)

SANAV8R wrote:
My wild cards are: Norwegian to LGW or CDG (they serve OAK, LAS, LAX why not SAN); Copa to PTY or seasonal AC Rouge to YUL (we already have YVR, YYZ, YYC)

Although we have seen 2 non-major Euro cx announce SAN recently, I have a feeling if there is another carrier from Europe interested in San Diego, it would likely be a major one such as KLM or Lufthansa -- a carrier offering frequent (daily?), year-round service to a hug world-wide hub with lots of connections, that would appeal more to business travelers, as well as leisure pax. (AF I would consider a wild card for the role. Also, what about DL or gulp, even UA???)

I too would expect YUL to be the next Canadian city to see service from SAN but I'm not sure how much traffic there really is; YYZ, as well as YVR now, must cover int'l connection opportunities quite well. YYZ must be doing well since AC now serves the route double-daily, at least seasonally.

And I'm quite sure that the SDIA Route Development team makes lots of phone calls to COPA hq and is relentlessly trying to get SAN added to the carrier's route map asap! All pretty exciting stuff to think about, eh?

bb
 
friendlyskies22
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sat Jul 02, 2016 11:25 pm

Hi SanFan:
Has there been any recent discussion on moving SAN to NKX (Miramar)?

Everyone knows the facility/location shortcomings at SAN, and NKX resolves
most of those shortcomings, including excellent freeway access, double runways,
huge amounts of open space to the east and west.
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SANFan
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:20 am

friendlyskies22 wrote:
Hi SanFan: Has there been any recent discussion on moving SAN to NKX (Miramar)? Everyone knows the facility/location shortcomings at SAN, and NKX resolves most of those shortcomings, including excellent freeway access, double runways, huge amounts of open space to the east and west.

Hi friendly'. It would be a dream come true wouldn't it? It's much more fun now to think of what could happen around here if this city and region had a more 'normal' and unrestricted airport.

But the people voted years ago, and said, "Keep Lindbergh as the region's airport", and that's what's happening currently. IF there were another round of base closures, and IF Miramar were turned loose by the military, then who knows? I would also imagine another vote of the people would be needed and I would expect a lot of entities would try very hard to make the move happen, if it would be possible. Lots of IFs and uncertainty.... And money!

I have heard nothing, as of now, to the contrary of the mandate to keep SAN at Lindbergh. With the next terminal rebuild/expansion, Lindbergh will pretty much reach capacity of gates, flights, etc. Not a happy thought...

bb
 
tmiw
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jul 03, 2016 2:24 am

I'm partial to the bi-national airport idea combining TIJ and SDM but that's not going to happen either. :(
 
SANMAN66
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:26 am

SANFan. I had forgotten about KLM! It seems as if Europe is SAN'S strongest destination. It leaves me to wonder if SDIA is wasting their time going after Central/South American routes? Lufthansa or KLM would cap things nicely.
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SANMAN66
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Sun Jul 03, 2016 7:40 am

tmiw wrote:
I'm partial to the bi-national airport idea combining TIJ and SDM but that's not going to happen either. :(


They already looked into that idea in the early 90s. They called it "Twinports". It called for a terminal on the. US side, including a 12,000ft runway. The US terminal and runway would be
connected to TIJ's terminal and runway. Chula Vista had a cow, and Mexico jumped on the opposition bandwagon!
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fsafsx
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:11 am

SANFan wrote:
fsafsx wrote:
San Diego to Flint should become a nonstop on Alaska or Spirit.

Not a request/hope I've heard before!

According to DOT figures, the daily TOTAL pax traffic between Flint and SAN is right around 25; that puts the existing PDEW at ~13. Even considering leakage, if there is any, it would still be a mighty small number.

Sorry, that route isn't going to happen via AS, NK or any other of the majors. The best (only) chance I see of anything ever between SAN & FNT might be, sometime in the future, a couple of flights a week on Allegiant. This would assume that someday SAN becomes a major destination for the carrier and with a current total of only 4 routes from Lindbergh Field, that seems like a distant dream...

If it's any consolation, one day SAN could possibly see another carrier fly nonstop to DTW, and IMO, the 2 airlines you mentioned, AS and NK, might be considered very good candidates for that.

bb


They should consider Flint or Cleveland over Detroit. Detroit is a dump, and I sure would hate to see them get a flight that would benefit surrounding regions.
 
bw50505
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:37 am

I went by SAN yesterday (July 12th) to see what was there for the MLB All-Star game. Lots of private business jets, one Eastern Air Lines 737 over at the Commuter Terminal, and an unrelated C-17 which was still there today (July 13). There was a separate topic about this but as expected there were no sized charters.

I also do not know if anyone else mentioned this, but there is a new Facebook page called "San Diego Spotting" that posts about what's happening at the airport. They haven't posted since July 6 but they should be back to posting soon.

I took a trip down to SDM recently and took note that if the retailers at the west end of the runways were bought out they could develop SDM into the new SAN; most of the surrounding area is nearly undeveloped with only retailers close by. Chula Vista might not like it but I think it's be the prime place to develop a new airport.

The question still stands, however: is it really necessary? I think the current mindset at city planning/Port Authority of San Diego is "no", not when SAN still isn't developed to the max.
flickr.com/sandiegoplanespotter
 
SANMAN66
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Thu Jul 14, 2016 8:23 am

I noticed that on SAN's website that T-2 parking lot will close Aug-6, to begin construction of the new parking garage/parking plaza in front of
T-2. I'm looking for renderings.
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washingtonflyer
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:07 pm

SDM is mentioned often, but from what I heard, dedicated operations cannot be down owing Mount Otay and the other mountains to the east of SDM.

My proposed usage for SDM envisioned moving all the cargo ops to SDM - FedEx and UPS already have large cargo operations at Otay for the CBP border crossing. So, why not combine them with cargo operations? With only five or six cargo movements a day, I don't see why they couldnt do a 8L arrival and 26R departure.
 
bw50505
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Re: What's happening lately at SAN?

Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:12 pm

washingtonflyer wrote:
SDM is mentioned often, but from what I heard, dedicated operations cannot be down owing Mount Otay and the other mountains to the east of SDM.

My proposed usage for SDM envisioned moving all the cargo ops to SDM - FedEx and UPS already have large cargo operations at Otay for the CBP border crossing. So, why not combine them with cargo operations? With only five or six cargo movements a day, I don't see why they couldnt do a 8L arrival and 26R departure.


I didn't consider the implications of Mt Otay being so close, but I have seen a DC-9 and even a 767 come in just fine, albeit with more maneuvering than at SAN. Maybe the city doesn't want to their new airport being even more difficult to fly into.

As for the cargo carriers, they already have existing facilities close to SAN, but I agree, they could easily develop new ones at SDM with relative ease.
flickr.com/sandiegoplanespotter
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