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Narfish641
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:38 pm

To me, the rules don't seem too bad. Majority of them seem a bit strict, but I can defiantly see you guys want to enforce stuff. Also I have encountered a couple of people that were....... Not too friendly over the past 6 months I been on here. But otherwise, the experience on this website has been pretty good.
Flew on:
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keesje
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:10 am

Politics (coming soon) This forum is the ONLY forum on the website in which political comments or discussions may take place, even if they are aviation related.

I would prefer a forum dedicated to Helicopter & VTOL and/or UAV over a forum on politics.

Because
- this is an aviation site
- these areas could generate interesting new topics
- it could attract new members and sponsors
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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DWC
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:40 am

keesje wrote:
I would prefer a forum dedicated to Helicopter & VTOL and/or UAV over a forum on politics.
Because
- this is an aviation site
- these areas could generate interesting new topics
- it could attract new members and sponsors

I second that.
Plus, just a thought : if we were to talk about Ekranoplans, what forum would they fall into ?
Technically, they relied more on ground impact than on wings...

Image
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:34 pm

keesje wrote:
Politics (coming soon) This forum is the ONLY forum on the website in which political comments or discussions may take place, even if they are aviation related.

I would prefer a forum dedicated to Helicopter & VTOL and/or UAV over a forum on politics.

Because
- this is an aviation site
- these areas could generate interesting new topics
- it could attract new members and sponsors

The politics forum has been requested by a large number of users, because political subjects have completely dominated the Non Aviation Forum for quite some time. There's a very active group of users who participate in Non Av, but are tired of being inundated with politics. Splitting it into a dedicated forum would ensure that only users wanting to see political discussion would be exposed to it. A helicopter/UAV forum is an interesting idea, but this is literally the first time I've heard that suggested. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but we'd need to see a significant interest in the idea before we could consider it. Some users are already upset when topics are moved from Civ Av to a more appropriate forum, so a further splitting of aviation topics might not be very popular.
 
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keesje
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:11 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
keesje wrote:
Politics (coming soon) This forum is the ONLY forum on the website in which political comments or discussions may take place, even if they are aviation related.

I would prefer a forum dedicated to Helicopter & VTOL and/or UAV over a forum on politics.

Because
- this is an aviation site
- these areas could generate interesting new topics
- it could attract new members and sponsors

The politics forum has been requested by a large number of users, because political subjects have completely dominated the Non Aviation Forum for quite some time. There's a very active group of users who participate in Non Av, but are tired of being inundated with politics. Splitting it into a dedicated forum would ensure that only users wanting to see political discussion would be exposed to it. A helicopter/UAV forum is an interesting idea, but this is literally the first time I've heard that suggested. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but we'd need to see a significant interest in the idea before we could consider it. Some users are already upset when topics are moved from Civ Av to a more appropriate forum, so a further splitting of aviation topics might not be very popular.


Hi I suggested the helicopter forum already many times & got support. The tragically passed away owner even got convinced at some point. IMO it would be a valuable contribution. Few dedicated helicopter topics while it is a broad interesting aviation field.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1323199
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:23 pm

keesje wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
keesje wrote:
Politics (coming soon) This forum is the ONLY forum on the website in which political comments or discussions may take place, even if they are aviation related.

I would prefer a forum dedicated to Helicopter & VTOL and/or UAV over a forum on politics.

Because
- this is an aviation site
- these areas could generate interesting new topics
- it could attract new members and sponsors

The politics forum has been requested by a large number of users, because political subjects have completely dominated the Non Aviation Forum for quite some time. There's a very active group of users who participate in Non Av, but are tired of being inundated with politics. Splitting it into a dedicated forum would ensure that only users wanting to see political discussion would be exposed to it. A helicopter/UAV forum is an interesting idea, but this is literally the first time I've heard that suggested. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but we'd need to see a significant interest in the idea before we could consider it. Some users are already upset when topics are moved from Civ Av to a more appropriate forum, so a further splitting of aviation topics might not be very popular.


Hi I suggested the helicopter forum already many times & got support. The tragically passed away owner even got convinced at some point. IMO it would be a valuable contribution. Few dedicated helicopter topics while it is a broad interesting aviation field.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1323199

14 years ago is probably why I don't remember it! The site has obviously changed a lot since then, so we'd need to gage interest from current members. Like I said, I'm not against the idea, but we'd need to make sure enough people would engage in the forum before going through the effort to make changes. I would recommend making a new thread in Site Related to start the discussion.
 
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keesje
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:38 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
keesje wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
The politics forum has been requested by a large number of users, because political subjects have completely dominated the Non Aviation Forum for quite some time. There's a very active group of users who participate in Non Av, but are tired of being inundated with politics. Splitting it into a dedicated forum would ensure that only users wanting to see political discussion would be exposed to it. A helicopter/UAV forum is an interesting idea, but this is literally the first time I've heard that suggested. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but we'd need to see a significant interest in the idea before we could consider it. Some users are already upset when topics are moved from Civ Av to a more appropriate forum, so a further splitting of aviation topics might not be very popular.


Hi I suggested the helicopter forum already many times & got support. The tragically passed away owner even got convinced at some point. IMO it would be a valuable contribution. Few dedicated helicopter topics while it is a broad interesting aviation field.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1323199

14 years ago is probably why I don't remember it! The site has obviously changed a lot since then, so we'd need to gage interest from current members. Like I said, I'm not against the idea, but we'd need to make sure enough people would engage in the forum before going through the effort to make changes. I would recommend making a new thread in Site Related to start the discussion.


http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1385281
:wink2:
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:17 pm

keesje wrote:
atcsundevil wrote:
keesje wrote:

Hi I suggested the helicopter forum already many times & got support. The tragically passed away owner even got convinced at some point. IMO it would be a valuable contribution. Few dedicated helicopter topics while it is a broad interesting aviation field.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1323199

14 years ago is probably why I don't remember it! The site has obviously changed a lot since then, so we'd need to gage interest from current members. Like I said, I'm not against the idea, but we'd need to make sure enough people would engage in the forum before going through the effort to make changes. I would recommend making a new thread in Site Related to start the discussion.


http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1385281
:wink2:

That's right, I forgot I looked at that. My memory is failing me already. Well, I guess we'll see what kind of interest it gets. As I said, we get a lot of complaints about the current division of forums — users will post anything to Civ Av and take it as a sleight when we move it to the appropriate forum. Because of that, we're understandably hesitant to add new forums unless we're sure it's necessary.
 
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falstaff
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:51 pm

When will the political forum go online? It will be nice that those that like to argue over politics will have their own area to so that in and not clog up nonAv.
My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
 
Cubsrule
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:36 pm

I remain concerned about some of the delineation between fora and inconsistent moderation. Do posts about operational meltdowns (DL at ATL, WN at MDW) belong in CivAv or TechOps? Moderators have put them both places recently.

In addition, I'm not sure that banning political discussions from CivAv is appropriate or workable. How do we discuss things like merger approvals without discussing the politics that informs those approvals? Or would merger approval discussions have to go in the Politics forum?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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qf789
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:59 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
In addition, I'm not sure that banning political discussions from CivAv is appropriate or workable. How do we discuss things like merger approvals without discussing the politics that informs those approvals? Or would merger approval discussions have to go in the Politics forum?


As stated in the rules update (see below) politics and political statements can be made in Civil Aviation providing it is in context of the discussion and it is aviation related. Unfortunately too many times political comments have not been made in context and instead we have seen users injecting political bias and make inflammatory statements and as a result we have has to either delete posts, lock threads or move the topic to Non-Aviation. We as moderators fully understand that from time to time there are going to be aviation topics which have a political component whether it is regarding an order, a government policy, mergers etc

Political Discussion
1. As some aviation topics relate to politics, political statements related to aviation are permitted, provided the political discussion is merely to provide context to the discussion. Political commentary without aviation context, with the purpose of being inflammatory or injecting political bias, or comments which are fundamentally a political discussion will be removed in all aviation forums. Political commentary must serve a purpose in aviation forums.
2. Political discussion unrelated to aviation, or aviation topics primarily rooted in politics are limited to the Non-Aviation Forum.
Forum Moderator
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:15 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
I remain concerned about some of the delineation between fora and inconsistent moderation. Do posts about operational meltdowns (DL at ATL, WN at MDW) belong in CivAv or TechOps? Moderators have put them both places recently.

I agree that more consistency is needed, but please understand that in many cases, our decision will make people unhappy regardless of what we do. Sometimes threads like that are phrased in such a way that makes them applicable to either forum. If we leave it in Civ Av, we get hell from users who think it belongs in Tech Ops. If we move it, we get hell from users who think it should have stayed in Civ Av. Sometimes we're forced to make a decision and stick with it, because everyone has different interpretations of forum delineation. I'm not sure how to improve that delineation, but we're certainly open to ideas.

Cubsrule wrote:
In addition, I'm not sure that banning political discussions from CivAv is appropriate or workable. How do we discuss things like merger approvals without discussing the politics that informs those approvals? Or would merger approval discussions have to go in the Politics forum?

We don't ban political discussions in aviation forums provided the content is rooted in aviation and is on-topic. We don't allow purely political statements in aviation forms, because it often drags the discussion off-topic. Politics these days are so divisive, and a civilized thread can devolve into political bickering in minutes. Sometimes we have to make a judgement call, because occasionally we'll see posts that are 95% on-topic, but one phrase is thrown in that has the potential to explode the thread. Users frequently criticize "over-moderating" of some threads, but our only motivation is to keep this site rooted in aviation discussion. All moderators have seen threads melt into political discord, and just want to try to prevent that from happening.

The future Politics Forum would only encompass topics from Non-Av which are strictly political subjects unrelated to aviation. It would essentially become a Non-Av Politics Forum and a Politics-Free Non-Av Forum, so we're just splitting the current Non-Av Forum. Aviation discussions intertwined with politics will still be in the appropriate aviation forum, and the discussion will continue to be permitted provided the posts are primarily aviation related, and don't include flamebait statements.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:25 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
I remain concerned about some of the delineation between fora and inconsistent moderation. Do posts about operational meltdowns (DL at ATL, WN at MDW) belong in CivAv or TechOps? Moderators have put them both places recently.

I agree that more consistency is needed, but please understand that in many cases, our decision will make people unhappy regardless of what we do. Sometimes threads like that are phrased in such a way that makes them applicable to either forum. If we leave it in Civ Av, we get hell from users who think it belongs in Tech Ops. If we move it, we get hell from users who think it should have stayed in Civ Av. Sometimes we're forced to make a decision and stick with it, because everyone has different interpretations of forum delineation. I'm not sure how to improve that delineation, but we're certainly open to ideas.


My larger concern is with consistency. The operational meltdown threads have not been treated in the same way. DL/ATL stayed in CivAv; y'all moved WN/MDW to TechOps.

I favor a bias toward CivAv because one of the strengths of a.net compared to some of the competition is CivAv's comprehensiveness, but I realize that that is a normative choice with which others may disagree.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
speedbird52
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:34 am

I took quite a lot of humor at the first few reactions to these rules. Personally I find them very reasonable, and in line with what you see on most other sites. I don't know how this site used to be, but despite the vast amount of technical knowledge on here, I find personal attacks and people taking offense to the most inconsequential of things to be rampant right now, and quite sad.
"I have control" Three Words That Could Have Saved Lives.
 
slider
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:55 pm

The flippin United States Constitution has fewer words!!

These rules are bollocks unless you remove the arbitrary and capricious nature of enforcement by the mods. Far too often, especially in political context, threads and posts are selectively and curiously deleted on the whims of a mod, who, coincidentally, would share the same political viewpoint.

Moreover, there are way too many thin-skinned people here who whine to moderators because their snowflake feelings were hurt. Grow up, get over it and deal with the fact there are other opinions--and sometimes strongly voiced--other than your own.
 
MSPNWA
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:03 pm

Having to e-mail about moderation topics is a non-starter to me. Discussion between members and moderators should be encouraged with a feeling of openness, not artifically suppressed by introducing privacy concerns.

And rules are only useful when actually followed, enforced, and moderated consistently and without bias. I don't see that often in today's A.net, and it's contributing to the lack of quality and increase in hostility on the forums.

atcsundevil wrote:
I agree that more consistency is needed, but please understand that in many cases, our decision will make people unhappy regardless of what we do. Sometimes threads like that are phrased in such a way that makes them applicable to either forum. If we leave it in Civ Av, we get hell from users who think it belongs in Tech Ops. If we move it, we get hell from users who think it should have stayed in Civ Av. Sometimes we're forced to make a decision and stick with it, because everyone has different interpretations of forum delineation. I'm not sure how to improve that delineation, but we're certainly open to ideas.


If you're getting flak from both sides (which I find hard to imagine that people complain if left in the Civ/Av, but I'll trust you on it), why move it to a forum where far fewer people actually read and talk about a current event that matches the description of the Civ/Av forum? It makes no sense to cater to the one side that causes fewer people to be informed and engaged. And it's not about what words are in the topic title. It's about the topic itself.

Stick to the description of the forums. The two issues at ATL and MDW are current, factual events. They're not about the nitty gritty. They're not "advanced" topics for that those that want to "dig deeper". And they're certainly not topics geared towards "professionals and knowledgable amateurs". They're important and relevant for all.
 
SoJo
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:41 pm

Slider, you are my new Hero. You have summed it up perfectly. Long live the diversity of life :-)
RAF Abingdon 1967. I met Beverley from Blackburn. Fantastic!
 
Q
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:28 am

Can you tell members to stop telling or asking why English grammars isn't perfect? Where are you from or problem with bad or wrong grammars? I do not feel comfortable with that comment from any members. I am hard of hearing is that part of problem that I can't hear following hearing speaking of language grammars. How could I hear perfect grammars? You cannot fix that. They shouldn't asking in the forum for member's disabled grammars. Just leave it alone. You have to understand read again. Or you can ask nicely can you explain it again what are you trying to say? I would to be happy write again forum.

Thanks,

Q
 
TATLTALE
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:59 pm

Just a quick note to the moderators as a long-time-lurker, short-time poster: thank you for the work you've done on this. No set of rules will ever be perfect, but it is important to have them, particularly in online fora where different socio-cultural values tend to collide. It seems you get a good bit of grief for much, and I wanted to add my voice of appreciation.
I also empathize with the concerns about non-native English grammar and mistakes, but I do think that the majority do well to tolerate variation, whether this be from second language speakers, those whose writing in a first language doesn't mirror the standard, or simply because of typoerrors.
Oh stewardess, I speak jive
 
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Mortyman
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:48 pm

2. Threads that have been inactive for six (6) months or more (meaning the last post in the thread was made six months or more from the current date) are not to be commented on, and should remain permanently dormant unless the user first seeks approval from a Moderator to post in that thread.



A bit over the top I think ...
 
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cpd
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:50 am

atcsundevil wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
I remain concerned about some of the delineation between fora and inconsistent moderation. Do posts about operational meltdowns (DL at ATL, WN at MDW) belong in CivAv or TechOps? Moderators have put them both places recently.

I agree that more consistency is needed, but please understand that in many cases, our decision will make people unhappy regardless of what we do. Sometimes threads like that are phrased in such a way that makes them applicable to either forum. If we leave it in Civ Av, we get hell from users who think it belongs in Tech Ops. If we move it, we get hell from users who think it should have stayed in Civ Av. Sometimes we're forced to make a decision and stick with it, because everyone has different interpretations of forum delineation. I'm not sure how to improve that delineation, but we're certainly open to idea.


Maybe the problem there is that the rules have encourage this Policemen attitude to forum topics and which sub-forums they belong in. Technical in my mind is very technical stuff about the systems or operation of a plane, where a operational meltdown or delays might have a bit of technical detail, but isn't really technical.

With rules being as defined/strict as they are, I think the mods have made more work for themselves. Some users also need to lighten up, there is more to life than worrying about if something aviation related is general civil aviation or technical civil aviation.
 
MSPbrandon
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:33 am

Why is swearing not allowed ? As long as a poster isn't using swear words to insult someone,I don't think there should be a problem with it. I feel it's over-censoring. Besides, it's 2018, not 1958.
 
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qf789
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:37 am

MSPbrandon wrote:
Why is swearing not allowed ? As long as a poster isn't using swear words to insult someone,I don't think there should be a problem with it. I feel it's over-censoring. Besides, it's 2018, not 1958.


Because we as moderators are trying to keep the site professional and of a high standard. Lets face the facts swearing and keeping things professional do not fit in the same sentence. One of the most common complaints we receive is how the quality of posts on this site have gone downhill. Having read other forums in the past where swearing is permitted the quality of the posting is quite poor. This actually goes against everything we are trying to achieve. We are trying through a range of things trying to improve the quality of posting on the forums, one of the changes is the rules update, another we plan starting to work on soon is a number of reference guides that will be beneficial to all users.
Forum Moderator
 
TN486
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Fri Feb 16, 2018 10:58 am

Off topic, I would like to see a new section headed "Airline Timetables". I was told previously this was not possible, however no reason given.
I find it also extremely important that if we are going to use Airline and Airport Codes in posts, that the old method of clicking on the code for an explanation made it very user friendly and instantaneous. This would be much easier than having to refer to a separate listing. If it is not on the priority to-do list I respectfully suggest it should be. cheers.
p.s. What you are setting out to achieve is great, and well documented, well done. cheers again.
remember the t shirt "I own an airline"on the front - "qantas" on the back
 
gunnerman
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:09 pm

Who on earth is going to read a huge list of rules? I remember another forum that I was active on many years ago, and contributors had to sign up to one rule:

"Be nice"

This worked quite well as moderators and contributors did clamp down on rule violators.

And what about, say, those useless little posts such as "Lol"? Ignore it, move on. Life is too short to get hung up about this.
 
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Matt6461
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Re: NEW FORUM RULES

Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:25 am

Probably off topic but segueing from TN486's point, I'd like to suggest a new forum/feature: fundamentals of aerodynamics/engineering.
Most people here are (like me) non-expert enthusiasts who like to pick up a little knowledge here and there. But we often waste space and time debating fundamentals like the causes of drag when experts have answered many of these questions literally a century ago.

This site could perform a huge service to its members if a few highly-respected members converged to issue an "A.net guide to fundamentals of airliner performance" or some similar document/forum. Many of the people I'd suggest for this task are already moderators, and already have to wade through reams of disputes over basic ideas by people who don't work in this field and are blindly (but enthusiastically) fumbling about. It would save time for both the blind and the enlightened if there were a few canonical A.net "wikis" to which we could link when a thread turns to disputing fundamentals.

If we need a fellowship structure for it, I'd chip in. I'd guess many others would as well.

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