There seem to be a lot more naive (to be polite) questions on here

Lol minimum age on any website...the thing that changed what it used to cost money to join.

seven3seven wrote:

There seem to be a lot more naive (to be polite) questions on here

Remains 13 however that is impossible to verify on the A.net end (can't check ID on registration) and the lack of pay to post has made it even easier.

seven3seven wrote:

There seem to be a lot more naive (to be polite) questions on here

Indeed. What's also annoying is that people don't post new topics in the right forum. Like site related issues in the subforum 'Site related'. That seems like something people of every age should be able to do.

I have to say that if you don't give the younger ones a chance they'll never be able to fufill their full potential. I joined when I was 14 and have improved for the better since then(but having faced some critiscism of course). If they are naive just avoid them. It's simple as that.

I think the OP is referring to one specific poster in general. Someone who has changed their user handle multiple times and floods the forum with ridiculous hypotheticals and hostile responses...

Well, they had to do something- have you seen the traffic statistics of a.net over the past year?
Around the time of the sight revamp, it plummeted, and never recovered.
And for good reason.
I support the younger guys/gals being here, and looking back, I didn't have to pay when I made my a.net account back in the late 1940's!
But I do wish sometimes the search feature were..... "more utilized."
What we seem to have been left with is a handful of fanatic Delta-bashing weirdos in Detroit, a handful of Delta-loving weirdos in Atlanta, a Boeing-hater in Hong Kong, a couple of Dutch posters we all love, a bunch of 15 year olds, and a couple of really knowledgeable folks who don't post as often as they used to.

Edited to add this graphic evidence of the meltdown:
http://www.trafficestimate.com/airliners.net

AA737-823 wrote:

What we seem to have been left with is a handful of fanatic Delta-bashing weirdos in Detroit, a handful of Delta-loving weirdos in Atlanta, a Boeing-hater in Hong Kong, a couple of Dutch posters we all love, a bunch of 15 year olds, and a couple of really knowledgeable folks who don't post as often as they used to.

Ha, that really about sums it up! This used to be THE place to get news and information, now I'm afraid to come on here most of the time.
The new layout is not an improvement at all.

AA737-823 wrote:

What we seem to have been left with is a handful of fanatic Delta-bashing weirdos in Detroit, a handful of Delta-loving weirdos in Atlanta, a Boeing-hater in Hong Kong, a couple of Dutch posters we all love, a bunch of 15 year olds, and a couple of really knowledgeable folks who don't post as often as they used to.

Edited to add this graphic evidence of the meltdown:
http://www.trafficestimate.com/airliners.net

I don''t encounter many of the posters you do describe, and generally I don't notice a lot of difference between now and then. I agree the really knowledgable ones do stand out, but that that's always been true, there were always "a.net stars."

It's also true that - as long as I've been around - the "13 year old's" stick out like dog's bollix, to the fury of some, and I imagine it will continue to be true because of the nature of a.net and aviation - it appeals to young fantasists who want to run an airline. I just wish they would learn to spell.

I don't buy into the idea that prior to "the change" a.net was some hallowed ground for aviation enthusiasts. Is it different now? Some, but not very much.

mariner

I think this probably belongs in "Site Related", but I will add my 2 cents here.

Everyone hates change, so I get it. I think that the new layout lacks some features we loved (RR, for example), but I have gotten used to it, and it's still the best aviation nerd site out there. It's also a lot more stable and less buggy than the original. (At least it seems that way to me.)

I find Flyertalk and their entitled, gimme-gimme-gimme posters insufferable, and there is still excellent information and mature conversation in the threads here that are oriented towards same. You can usually tell from the thread title what quality of discourse is going to be in it (at least I can), and I just avoid the ones that are guaranteed to annoy me. Meanwhile, I look forward to updates on several threads that I follow regularly (e.g. HK's 767 thread and n515cr's DL refurbishment one, among many others).

And there are plenty of respectful 13-year-olds that want to learn, post thoughtful and well-written posts, and handle themselves appropriately. Meanwhile, there are numerous 50-year-olds that don't, so age control isn't a panacea.

Boy ain't this the truth!

Between the revamp, when we lost so many of our valued posters, to the removal of the cost requirement, things have really gone down quickly. I joined in my late teens, but having to pay money, even a token amount, kept the quality significantly higher. Many of the posts these days are so poorly written, I can barely even understand them. No one uses the right airport and airline codes anymore. People ask straight up stupid questions. It's really a shame. This was always one of my favorite time wasters, full of educated (though sometimes overly passionate) byplay, and now it's just descended into nothing.

wjcandee wrote:

And there are plenty of respectful 13-year-olds that want to learn, post thoughtful and well-written posts, and handle themselves appropriately. Meanwhile, there are numerous 50-year-olds that don't, so age control isn't a panacea.

I started following this site when I was around 12-13. Look at me now, mom!

Having young folk around can help.

I think the quality of the posters has gone down dramatically and that has chased a lot of the knowledgeable people away.

I had several pilot buddies that used to participate, but they got tired of being contradicted by snot-nosed adolescents that have no idea what they're talking about, so they left.

Now, we've devolved into the same stupid, non-sensical, hypothetical threads that are of no interest and the same freaking topics that are discussed weekly being opined on by people that clearly have no clue what they're talking about(guysh.....letsh restart the 757 production line,guysh).

I spend my time at another website that's far more mature and knowledgeable, where if you're some brat trying to pretend you're someone you're not, you get run out of there pretty quickly.

wjcandee wrote:

I think this probably belongs in "Site Related", but I will add my 2 cents here.

I agree, this should be moved. Adding another 2 cents, there are certain posters that are driving traffic away from this site, especially a few DL/NW fanatics.

The moderators of this website need to carefully monitor those with multiple screen names. And, It's fairly obvious once an account is deactivated for an abusive poster, another is quickly established with the same agenda.

The result of the above is that many seasoned, knowledgeable members have all but disappeared. And, that should be a concern of the new owners.

How about fixing the link at bottom of the "right now in the forum" section of the main page. It says "Civil Aviation Forum" but takes you to the main forum list. If I wanted the main forum I would not hit a link clearly marked for Civil Aviation forum.
As crew can you get them to fix it Joshu?

One other thought: I think the quality of the discourse here, in some cases, mirrors the reduction in quality of discourse generally in the US, and perhaps around the world, driven by how people interact with other social media. They reduce complicated ideas to less than a sentence, express themselves in ways that they never would in person (if they knew what was good for them), and just generally display their nitwitted random thoughts, thinking that what they are saying is something that others could/would/should care about. It's just a sea of nonsense out there, punctuated by a few really funny or insightful posts -- the result of a democratization of platforms for thought. I just have had to get used to wading though the junk to get to the pearls. On balance, as we otherwise probably wouldn't see those pearls if not for the less-curated platforms, it may be a good thing, but it certainly is a lot more work.

I have learned a lot of new things on this site. I joined as a teen and it has helped me to learn much about my passion. I personally would agree with the rest of you that the post quality has gone down drastically. I think that the mods need to be more strict and remove unprofessional posts that do not use proper grammar and/or spelling. Overall I think this place has gone downhill which is sad...I used to learn so much in the tech ops forum....

I still enjoy reading some of the posts but I don't participate much any more. Invariably my reply is contradicted, usually with bad info, and always with a snarky attitude. Too many trolls on the New a.net.

deltalaw wrote:

I think the OP is referring to one specific poster in general. Someone who has changed their user handle multiple times and floods the forum with ridiculous hypotheticals and hostile responses...

Who is that one specific poster in general?

Airliners.net was a better was a much better easier website to navigate when it was a paid website. Also, paid members did not need to put up with annoying watermarks on photograph. It definitely has taken a turn for the worse.

kabq737 wrote:

I have learned a lot of new things on this site. I joined as a teen and it has helped me to learn much about my passion. I personally would agree with the rest of you that the post quality has gone down drastically. I think that the mods need to be more strict and remove unprofessional posts that do not use proper grammar and/or spelling. Overall I think this place has gone downhill which is sad...I used to learn so much in the tech ops forum....

I have learned a lot in the past. Been here for over 15 years. But I have found recently that few knowledgeable people are left, the same freaking hypotheticals are posted over and over, and the big news seems to be that some random flight is delayed or had to turn back.

Part of this is lack of new projects and innovation at Boeing and Airbus. Derivatives are boring.

Then there's the airline consolidation and race to the bottom. Air travel has become less interesting as a hobby.

The site redesign didn't help, but it's improved to usable from an abomination. So that's a plus.

I agree I've seen some rather silly and odd topics brought up. However, most of us developed our avgeekhood early on in life. I was 11 and became a fan after my first airline trip. Back then all I could do was call airlines and ask to have timetables mailed to me, most all of which did so. Times have changed.

What exactly defines "young folk"? 13-14? 16-17? 21-30? Anyone under 40?

Teens can be pretty mature when it comes to stuff they like. I joined with a different account in 7th grade, and it went smooth. No criticism. Btw that account is lost in time.If you think something is immature just ignore it and move on. This isn't the YouTube comment section to start dissing on everyone. And tbh I have never seen any ''immature'' topics in the past year or so. Plus, age restriction is about as useful as the electronics ban is a safety measure. A 9-yo can easily put 19 in the age box.

I started reading this site in the late 90s/early 2000s and joined in college when the $25 paywall was up and posters like B747skipper were around. This site seems to have gone from a technical/operational perspective to a more economic perspective. I liked it more back then, but I also know I'll say that about so many more things in life.

I'd bring back the $25 paywall though.

If y'all think this is bad then I would definitely recommend against the Instagram aviation community. Sure there are plenty of users that post high quality content but the number of little kids that think they know everything and think they can take even half decent photos is unreal.

You can blame Demand Media (now Leaf Group) for the shambolic management of the site migration and loss of features. Not that they'd listen.

Sandyb123

No such thing as a dumb question. It's uniformed opinions that are a problem.

f4ephantomii wrote:

If y'all think this is bad then I would definitely recommend against the Instagram aviation community. Sure there are plenty of users that post high quality content but the number of little kids that think they know everything and think they can take even half decent photos is unreal.

Not only that, but if you've ever watched some plane spotting videos on YouTube, it seems like over half of them are just young kids who use their old phone to record while shaking it uncontrollably.

deltalaw wrote:

I think the OP is referring to one specific poster in general. Someone who has changed their user handle multiple times and floods the forum with ridiculous hypotheticals and hostile responses...

Gerald Brovlofsky?

lesfalls wrote:

I have to say that if you don't give the younger ones a chance they'll never be able to fufill their full potential. I joined when I was 14 and have improved for the better since then(but having faced some critiscism of course). If they are naive just avoid them. It's simple as that.

I joined when I was 13 and now I work in airline operations. I've learned a lot from this site.

AA737-823 wrote:

What we seem to have been left with is a handful of fanatic Delta-bashing weirdos in Detroit, a handful of Delta-loving weirdos in Atlanta, a Boeing-hater in Hong Kong, a couple of Dutch posters we all love, a bunch of 15 year olds, and a couple of really knowledgeable folks who don't post as often as they used to.

Don't forget the MIA fanboys... I have it on good authority that an airline will announce service to Mars by summer's end.

On a serious note, I've also noticed a definite drop in post quality since the change to free membership and definitely don't post as much as I used to. Whereas this used to be a site with a good balance of enthusiasts and industry professionals it's now devolved into something where the posters like planes but don't care about the people who work on them.

deltalaw wrote:

I think the OP is referring to one specific poster in general. Someone who has changed their user handle multiple times and floods the forum with ridiculous hypotheticals and hostile responses...

^^^ This

CVGDTWfan wrote:

f4ephantomii wrote:

If y'all think this is bad then I would definitely recommend against the Instagram aviation community. Sure there are plenty of users that post high quality content but the number of little kids that think they know everything and think they can take even half decent photos is unreal.

Not only that, but if you've ever watched some plane spotting videos on YouTube, it seems like over half of them are just young kids who use their old phone to record while shaking it uncontrollably.

100% agree. Its crazy how many there are.

N867DA wrote:

This site seems to have gone from a technical/operational perspective to a more economic perspective. I liked it more back then, but I also know I'll say that about so many more things in life.

I'd bring back the $25 paywall though.

Interesting thread. I was 28 at the time. 13 is young enough to join, but yes, how to enforce it. Other social media have a similar rule, but even the parents do ignore it, so it doesn't really work. Important to actually have a policy about it though.

My history here is 2001 - discovered the site, read and joined within two weeks. Left in 2004 or 2005, more due to the Nov Av forum at the time, and changing life and lifestyle circumstances around that time, nothing to do with A.net that latter one anyway.

IIRC it was actually quite nerdy to be talking to people online circa the millennium, especially if you were not in the industry and having practical reasons to do so. Contrast to now, where it is just a way of life, and nobody blinks an eye, unless you are not online in some form.

Read about once a year or two, up to 2014, then re-joined - between the two MH tragedies.

Had to pay then, didn't back in 2001. I support the reintroduction of pay membership, if it will ever happen, for reasons already mentioned.

Yes, I've definitely noticed the trend away from technical and operational, to economic. I preferred the former, as a reader and contributor, on the learning side.

Off-topic but glad someone bought it up.

=

AA737-823 wrote:

Well, they had to do something- have you seen the traffic statistics of a.net over the past year?
Around the time of the sight revamp, it plummeted, and never recovered.

Edited to add this graphic evidence of the meltdown:
http://www.trafficestimate.com/airliners.net

I wonder if anyone knows why my response to this post was deleted.

It discussed why the data presented in the link from trafficestimate.com should not be trusted.

The revamp really killed this site. Amen.

I have been following this site since 2010. In the intervening years there has always been a variety in the "quality" of posts. Not everybody has the same level of experience and the same level of respect for others in the forum. Some can be ignorant, some can be strongly opinionated to the point of being offensive. That hasn't changed with the site revamp and, I would argue, has little to do with whether the forum is pay for access.

Over the years we did have a number of well-respected users drop out. Some did grow tired of arguing with those who obviously lacked knowledge yet offered strong opinions. Others simply moved on elsewhere as their job and life circumstances changed. Some people gave up after regular site crashes and even internet security programs identifying the site as malware. All this happened under the "old regime".

The introduction of the new forum format was badly managed but we have seen some improvements. That suggests that user input is now not being totally ignored. Should a fee be imposed? I am ambivalent because 1; it will not improve the quality of posts, and 2; it will not necessarily restrict trolls but may deter some people who could become valued members. I don't oppose a fee. I just don't think it will solve what some see as a problem.

ikramerica wrote:

I have learned a lot in the past. Been here for over 15 years. But I have found recently that few knowledgeable people are left, the same freaking hypotheticals are posted over and over, and the big news seems to be that some random flight is delayed or had to turn back.

Part of this is lack of new projects and innovation at Boeing and Airbus. Derivatives are boring.

Then there's the airline consolidation and race to the bottom. Air travel has become less interesting as a hobby.

The site redesign didn't help, but it's improved to usable from an abomination. So that's a plus.

This is it. Along with:

General lack of polite discourse in social media as a whole.

Consolidation can not be underestimated. There is just fewer topics to talk about with fewer airlines.

The site layout is not as good, even if necessary. Major changes still have not occured.

The post quality has definitely gone way down, and the trolls way up on this forum in the past 6-12 months.

I appreciate the people who come on here to learn or have discussions. The people who come on here to rant, and basically post their rants over and over again an absurd amount of times get old.