dtw2hyd
Topic Author
Posts: 3968
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Selective censorship on a.net

Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:48 pm

While replying to an earlier thread one of the moderator claimed, there is no agenda, but

On AI171 intercept thread, flame bait posts were left alone but mods are deleting anyone responds to the flame bait. Explain how posts #8 and #11 are related or any value to the thread.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1357465

EK bookings down 35%, same issue.

What is the logic behind this selective enforcement of rules and selective censorship? Is there an agenda to promote negative news of AI and bury negative news of EK?

It will help members save typing.
 
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speedbored
Posts: 1916
Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 5:14 am

Re: Selective censorship on a.net

Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:00 pm

Maybe it is because the mods don't read every single post made in every single thread?

Unless they personally read the posts in a thread, the mods will only react to posts that are reported to them. No matter how bad a post is, if they don't personally read it, and no-one reports it then it's going to remain.
 
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VirginFlyer
Posts: 4321
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: Selective censorship on a.net

Sun Mar 12, 2017 6:44 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
On AI171 intercept thread, flame bait posts were left alone but mods are deleting anyone responds to the flame bait. Explain how posts #8 and #11 are related or any value to the thread.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1357465

Have you used the report post function to bring those particular posts to the attention of the moderators?

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
dtw2hyd
Topic Author
Posts: 3968
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Selective censorship on a.net

Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:12 pm

Well, thread was sanitized at least twice and a mod posted about both AI pilots sleeping from a very credible source.

My post with reference to another intercept and issues with guard frequency over Europe was deleted.

Hard to believe mods wouldn't notice me me posts.
 
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VirginFlyer
Posts: 4321
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2000 12:27 pm

Re: Selective censorship on a.net

Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:01 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Well, thread was sanitized at least twice and a mod posted about both AI pilots sleeping from a very credible source.

My post with reference to another intercept and issues with guard frequency over Europe was deleted.

Hard to believe mods wouldn't notice me me posts.

I can't talk for the current moderators, but when I used to serve in the role it was not unusual to respond to delete suggestions by looking at the suggested post, the ones it replied to, and going from there, without thoroughly reading the whole thread. That and sometimes one might read something and not realise the offence that it is causing others. That's where the suggest delete button (or the report button now, the triangle icon with the question mark, in case you haven't seen it since it isn't exactly spelled out) was really useful.

One thing I'm wondering is that deletions used to be emailed, so you'd know why the post was deleted (I would say in my time between 50% and 60% of the posts I deleted were because they contained reference to a previous post which had been deleted, and in the absence of being able to edit user's posts, something moderators weren't permitted to do, the only option was to delete the post even if it was otherwise entirely fine). Do these deletion emails still go out? If not, that needs to be addressed - it is hard to raise the standard by deleting posts when people don't understand for what reason their post has been deleted.

V/F
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
 
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SQ22
Crew
Posts: 517
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Re: Selective censorship on a.net

Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:03 pm

VirginFlyer wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Well, thread was sanitized at least twice and a mod posted about both AI pilots sleeping from a very credible source.

My post with reference to another intercept and issues with guard frequency over Europe was deleted.

Hard to believe mods wouldn't notice me me posts.

I can't talk for the current moderators, but when I used to serve in the role it was not unusual to respond to delete suggestions by looking at the suggested post, the ones it replied to, and going from there, without thoroughly reading the whole thread. That and sometimes one might read something and not realise the offence that it is causing others. That's where the suggest delete button (or the report button now, the triangle icon with the question mark, in case you haven't seen it since it isn't exactly spelled out) was really useful.

One thing I'm wondering is that deletions used to be emailed, so you'd know why the post was deleted (I would say in my time between 50% and 60% of the posts I deleted were because they contained reference to a previous post which had been deleted, and in the absence of being able to edit user's posts, something moderators weren't permitted to do, the only option was to delete the post even if it was otherwise entirely fine). Do these deletion emails still go out? If not, that needs to be addressed - it is hard to raise the standard by deleting posts when people don't understand for what reason their post has been deleted.

V/F


I was not on duty yesterday, so I can't comment on the handling yesterday. Anyway it currently looks like everything is now okay. If not please make a request for deletion of the specific post and we can have a look at the post.

I am handling it exactly as described above. When threads are not too long I am checking the whole thread, but if they are getting to long its difficult.

Regarding deletions used to be emailed, this function disappeared with the old website and we have adressed it to get it back asap.
 
dtw2hyd
Topic Author
Posts: 3968
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Selective censorship on a.net

Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:29 pm

Another example of selective scrubbing, leaving initial flame-bait was left intact but others were warned, selectively sanitized and finally locked the thread.

Flame-bait is the reason threads go off-topic, not responses to flame-bait.

On a thread about to loss of comm and intercept, these posts are about everything else.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1358195


#7

The stories of Air India 787 pilots washing out at Oman and other 787 carriers makes a lot of sense now. It is still a feudalism system where connected people get the prestigious jobs.


#19
Of course India is the best.... otherwise you must be racist.

India - land of the fake pilots.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... tes-in-air

4000 of them?

https://www.google.com.hk/amp/m.ndtv.co ... -rum%3Doff

Fake health Certs?

https://www.google.com.hk/amp/m.timesof ... 953380.cms

Showing up drunk

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2011 ... drunk.html

Some twice!!

http://m.timesofindia.com/city/delhi/Ai ... 061969.cms


#20
First of all, most of the links above are from India media.

Secondly, I'm not one to ever say all is rosy in China, nor one to say Chinese aviation is perfect - just look at the Shenzhen air scandal. You can do a lot more than smoking in cockpits, believe me, and I've sat in a row 1 of a Chinese 737 with an airline chairman who went into the airline cockpit for a smoke upon approach into a tricky airport in southwest China after "cabin secured" announcement.

However, two wrongs don't make a right, and neither does being critical of aviation standards in India make me a racist. I've spend a lot of time working in aviation in India, so know the good from the bad. I've met (former minister) Patel, head of AAI and the regulator for example. Yes, India is amazing, frustrating and distracting at the same time and for every three steps forward, two back are also taken.

I'll end with a Korean quote...

The bad plowman quarrels with his ox.



#24
A lot of those fake Indian pilots ended up in other parts of Asia. It was a well know problem with some of the LCCs.

Union member of not, do you agree that a pilot caught drunk twice deserves to be flying again in 36 months, or do you prefer to deflect?


#38
Contract very much still in place, thanks. Have I dissed Patel or AAI?

Rather than blaming PR, how about perhaps apportioning some of the blame to AI?

Finally, the pilot you said was fired for being caught drunk TWICE wasn't fired. He was grounded for 36 months. Do you think that's good enough?

https://www.google.com.hk/amp/m.timesof ... 061969.cms

In case of a violation, a pilot’s licence will be suspended for three months for a first time offence. For a second violation, the pilot’s license is suspended for three years. A third time offence leads to a cancellation of the pilot’s license.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 14180
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Selective censorship on a.net

Wed Mar 22, 2017 5:38 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Another example of selective scrubbing, leaving initial flame-bait was left intact but others were warned, selectively sanitized and finally locked the thread.

Flame-bait is the reason threads go off-topic, not responses to flame-bait.

On a thread about to loss of comm and intercept, these posts are about everything else.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1358195


#7

The stories of Air India 787 pilots washing out at Oman and other 787 carriers makes a lot of sense now. It is still a feudalism system where connected people get the prestigious jobs.


#19
Of course India is the best.... otherwise you must be racist.

India - land of the fake pilots.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... tes-in-air

4000 of them?

https://www.google.com.hk/amp/m.ndtv.co ... -rum%3Doff

Fake health Certs?

https://www.google.com.hk/amp/m.timesof ... 953380.cms

Showing up drunk

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2011 ... drunk.html

Some twice!!

http://m.timesofindia.com/city/delhi/Ai ... 061969.cms


#20
First of all, most of the links above are from India media.

Secondly, I'm not one to ever say all is rosy in China, nor one to say Chinese aviation is perfect - just look at the Shenzhen air scandal. You can do a lot more than smoking in cockpits, believe me, and I've sat in a row 1 of a Chinese 737 with an airline chairman who went into the airline cockpit for a smoke upon approach into a tricky airport in southwest China after "cabin secured" announcement.

However, two wrongs don't make a right, and neither does being critical of aviation standards in India make me a racist. I've spend a lot of time working in aviation in India, so know the good from the bad. I've met (former minister) Patel, head of AAI and the regulator for example. Yes, India is amazing, frustrating and distracting at the same time and for every three steps forward, two back are also taken.

I'll end with a Korean quote...

The bad plowman quarrels with his ox.



#24
A lot of those fake Indian pilots ended up in other parts of Asia. It was a well know problem with some of the LCCs.

Union member of not, do you agree that a pilot caught drunk twice deserves to be flying again in 36 months, or do you prefer to deflect?


#38
Contract very much still in place, thanks. Have I dissed Patel or AAI?

Rather than blaming PR, how about perhaps apportioning some of the blame to AI?

Finally, the pilot you said was fired for being caught drunk TWICE wasn't fired. He was grounded for 36 months. Do you think that's good enough?

https://www.google.com.hk/amp/m.timesof ... 061969.cms

In case of a violation, a pilot’s licence will be suspended for three months for a first time offence. For a second violation, the pilot’s license is suspended for three years. A third time offence leads to a cancellation of the pilot’s license.


Have you reported them via the button or have you just complained about them here?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
dtw2hyd
Topic Author
Posts: 3968
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Selective censorship on a.net

Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:48 pm

Another example. Third off-topic flame bait on this thread. First two were deleted. These are so prevalent as if though they are encouraged.

#15
Seems like a roundabout way to get spare parts.....

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1359537

scbriml wrote:
Have you reported them via the button or have you just complained about them here?

SD is used to game the system, absolutely no value, almost an excuse.

This habit of flame throwing will change only members get the message one side will not be encouraged. Rather scrubbing and warning those who reply to flame bait became regular order of business.
 
qf789
Crew
Posts: 2035
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Selective censorship on a.net

Tue Apr 04, 2017 4:41 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Another example. Third off-topic flame bait on this thread. First two were deleted. These are so prevalent as if though they are encouraged.

#15
Seems like a roundabout way to get spare parts.....

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1359537


No its not another example. The first two were deleted two and a half hours before the third flamebait post was even made. Secondly you are wasting your time telling us what number post it is here as we can see all deleted posts and the post your were referring to was actually #22. As mentioned by scrimbl if you see a post that violates a rule report it by using the suggest deletion button or email the moderators as the forum rules state. I would also remind you that us moderators can not be everywhere all the time and therefore encourage users to report posts that violate the rules

Airliners.net will not and cannot review every message posted, and is furthermore not responsible for the content of any of these messages. If you believe a post or thread violates a rule, please bring this to our attention by using the "suggest delete" button. It would also be helpful if you indicated which rules you believe were broken.

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