Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
dtw2hyd wrote:On AI171 intercept thread, flame bait posts were left alone but mods are deleting anyone responds to the flame bait. Explain how posts #8 and #11 are related or any value to the thread.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1357465
dtw2hyd wrote:Well, thread was sanitized at least twice and a mod posted about both AI pilots sleeping from a very credible source.
My post with reference to another intercept and issues with guard frequency over Europe was deleted.
Hard to believe mods wouldn't notice me me posts.
VirginFlyer wrote:dtw2hyd wrote:Well, thread was sanitized at least twice and a mod posted about both AI pilots sleeping from a very credible source.
My post with reference to another intercept and issues with guard frequency over Europe was deleted.
Hard to believe mods wouldn't notice me me posts.
I can't talk for the current moderators, but when I used to serve in the role it was not unusual to respond to delete suggestions by looking at the suggested post, the ones it replied to, and going from there, without thoroughly reading the whole thread. That and sometimes one might read something and not realise the offence that it is causing others. That's where the suggest delete button (or the report button now, the triangle icon with the question mark, in case you haven't seen it since it isn't exactly spelled out) was really useful.
One thing I'm wondering is that deletions used to be emailed, so you'd know why the post was deleted (I would say in my time between 50% and 60% of the posts I deleted were because they contained reference to a previous post which had been deleted, and in the absence of being able to edit user's posts, something moderators weren't permitted to do, the only option was to delete the post even if it was otherwise entirely fine). Do these deletion emails still go out? If not, that needs to be addressed - it is hard to raise the standard by deleting posts when people don't understand for what reason their post has been deleted.
V/F
The stories of Air India 787 pilots washing out at Oman and other 787 carriers makes a lot of sense now. It is still a feudalism system where connected people get the prestigious jobs.
Of course India is the best.... otherwise you must be racist.
India - land of the fake pilots.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... tes-in-air
4000 of them?
https://www.google.com.hk/amp/m.ndtv.co ... -rum%3Doff
Fake health Certs?
https://www.google.com.hk/amp/m.timesof ... 953380.cms
Showing up drunk
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2011 ... drunk.html
Some twice!!
http://m.timesofindia.com/city/delhi/Ai ... 061969.cms
First of all, most of the links above are from India media.
Secondly, I'm not one to ever say all is rosy in China, nor one to say Chinese aviation is perfect - just look at the Shenzhen air scandal. You can do a lot more than smoking in cockpits, believe me, and I've sat in a row 1 of a Chinese 737 with an airline chairman who went into the airline cockpit for a smoke upon approach into a tricky airport in southwest China after "cabin secured" announcement.
However, two wrongs don't make a right, and neither does being critical of aviation standards in India make me a racist. I've spend a lot of time working in aviation in India, so know the good from the bad. I've met (former minister) Patel, head of AAI and the regulator for example. Yes, India is amazing, frustrating and distracting at the same time and for every three steps forward, two back are also taken.
I'll end with a Korean quote...
The bad plowman quarrels with his ox.
A lot of those fake Indian pilots ended up in other parts of Asia. It was a well know problem with some of the LCCs.
Union member of not, do you agree that a pilot caught drunk twice deserves to be flying again in 36 months, or do you prefer to deflect?
Contract very much still in place, thanks. Have I dissed Patel or AAI?
Rather than blaming PR, how about perhaps apportioning some of the blame to AI?
Finally, the pilot you said was fired for being caught drunk TWICE wasn't fired. He was grounded for 36 months. Do you think that's good enough?
https://www.google.com.hk/amp/m.timesof ... 061969.cms
In case of a violation, a pilot’s licence will be suspended for three months for a first time offence. For a second violation, the pilot’s license is suspended for three years. A third time offence leads to a cancellation of the pilot’s license.
dtw2hyd wrote:Another example of selective scrubbing, leaving initial flame-bait was left intact but others were warned, selectively sanitized and finally locked the thread.
Flame-bait is the reason threads go off-topic, not responses to flame-bait.
On a thread about to loss of comm and intercept, these posts are about everything else.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1358195
#7The stories of Air India 787 pilots washing out at Oman and other 787 carriers makes a lot of sense now. It is still a feudalism system where connected people get the prestigious jobs.
#19Of course India is the best.... otherwise you must be racist.
India - land of the fake pilots.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... tes-in-air
4000 of them?
https://www.google.com.hk/amp/m.ndtv.co ... -rum%3Doff
Fake health Certs?
https://www.google.com.hk/amp/m.timesof ... 953380.cms
Showing up drunk
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2011 ... drunk.html
Some twice!!
http://m.timesofindia.com/city/delhi/Ai ... 061969.cms
#20First of all, most of the links above are from India media.
Secondly, I'm not one to ever say all is rosy in China, nor one to say Chinese aviation is perfect - just look at the Shenzhen air scandal. You can do a lot more than smoking in cockpits, believe me, and I've sat in a row 1 of a Chinese 737 with an airline chairman who went into the airline cockpit for a smoke upon approach into a tricky airport in southwest China after "cabin secured" announcement.
However, two wrongs don't make a right, and neither does being critical of aviation standards in India make me a racist. I've spend a lot of time working in aviation in India, so know the good from the bad. I've met (former minister) Patel, head of AAI and the regulator for example. Yes, India is amazing, frustrating and distracting at the same time and for every three steps forward, two back are also taken.
I'll end with a Korean quote...
The bad plowman quarrels with his ox.
#24A lot of those fake Indian pilots ended up in other parts of Asia. It was a well know problem with some of the LCCs.
Union member of not, do you agree that a pilot caught drunk twice deserves to be flying again in 36 months, or do you prefer to deflect?
#38Contract very much still in place, thanks. Have I dissed Patel or AAI?
Rather than blaming PR, how about perhaps apportioning some of the blame to AI?
Finally, the pilot you said was fired for being caught drunk TWICE wasn't fired. He was grounded for 36 months. Do you think that's good enough?
https://www.google.com.hk/amp/m.timesof ... 061969.cms
In case of a violation, a pilot’s licence will be suspended for three months for a first time offence. For a second violation, the pilot’s license is suspended for three years. A third time offence leads to a cancellation of the pilot’s license.
Seems like a roundabout way to get spare parts.....
scbriml wrote:Have you reported them via the button or have you just complained about them here?
dtw2hyd wrote:Another example. Third off-topic flame bait on this thread. First two were deleted. These are so prevalent as if though they are encouraged.
#15Seems like a roundabout way to get spare parts.....
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1359537
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dtw2hyd wrote:Another example of selective editing.
Cobra, Mongoose, Jellyfish, Elephants, Sharks are welcome but not Anacondas and a hypothetical Goats.
What is the logic?
viewtopic.php?t=1340177
dtw2hyd wrote:Another example of selective editing.
Cobra, Mongoose, Jellyfish, Elephants, Sharks are welcome but not Anacondas and a hypothetical Goats.
What is the logic?
viewtopic.php?t=1340177
777Jet wrote:If non-offending and non-offensive posts, that do not breach any forum rules, disappear just because they have been later quoted in a post by somebody else who has then gone on to breach a forum rule in their reply, then that would be a form of selective censorship. I don't see any reason for a compliant post to be removed just because somebody with a different opinion has decided to quote it and go off the rails in their reply during a hissy fit.
Thread in question: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1365621
atcsundevil wrote:dtw2hyd wrote:Another example of selective editing.
Cobra, Mongoose, Jellyfish, Elephants, Sharks are welcome but not Anacondas and a hypothetical Goats.
What is the logic?
viewtopic.php?t=1340177
I'm really not sure what you hope to gain with this rolling thread of yours. As multiple people have explained, we simply cannot be everywhere at once. We don't selectively do anything -- we react to reported posts, we try our best to review the thread and follow up, but often it's not possible for us to keep up. There are plenty of instances when we only have time to review the reported post, quickly search for referenced posts, and move on to the next. Reported posts add up incredibly quickly in our queue.
If it still doesn't make sense, I'll simplify:
Step 1: You see offensive posts.
Step 2: You report offensive posts.
Step 3: We review offensive posts.
Step 4: Everything is better.
If people don't report the post, then there's a decent chance we either won't see it, or we won't see it in a timely manner. Airliners.net is supposed to be a community, and we therefore rely on the community to help us keep things happy. Simply reposting those comments here contributes absolutely nothing because it isn't a reporting mechanism, it's effectively complaining without providing solutions. Reporting the post IS the solution.
777Jet wrote:If non-offending and non-offensive posts, that do not breach any forum rules, disappear just because they have been later quoted in a post by somebody else who has then gone on to breach a forum rule in their reply, then that would be a form of selective censorship. I don't see any reason for a compliant post to be removed just because somebody with a different opinion has decided to quote it and go off the rails in their reply during a hissy fit.
Thread in question: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1365621
VirginFlyer wrote:So I have a suggestion for the moderators: instead of deleting whole posts, can you edit the user's post to cut out reference to the previous deleted post, and leave an "edited by" tag at the bottom (perhaps along the lines of "Edited by [Mod name] to remove quote of earlier deleted post"). I see this type of editing by a moderator from time to time (I just saw one this morning, I can't recall the thread but if I come across it again I'll link it here), so I imagine it is possible, although I know in the past the moderators have been quite reluctant to edit users' posts (no doubt expecting the inevitible "The Mods are selectively editing my posts to change what I say" threads that will occur). I think doing it this way would help reduce the number of complaints people have about moderation, and also contribute to the flow of threads.
VirginFlyer wrote:Thanks for this clear response atcsundevil! I wonder if part of the issue is people don't realise how to report posts. For me the exclamation mark in a triangle icon seems really obvious, but there may be others for whom it isn't. Certainly I've seen plenty of posts where people have maybe double posted, or changed their mind, and edited it to say "double, please delete", but when you click on the report button it takes you to the report menu, meaning it hasn't previously been reported. Another suggestion for the moderators: it would be good to have a sticky post at the top of the forums for a few months, maybe even permanently, pointing out this feature, and some other useful features, like which icons to click on to take you to the most recently read posts.
V/F
atcsundevil wrote:we do expect automated email notification to return shortly. It's not a standard feature of this site software, and was a relatively unique feature of the old site.
dtw2hyd wrote:the system is rigged.
dtw2hyd wrote:Everyone knows how SD/Report a post works. But with airline PR teams managing most threads, mechanical nature of this feature, and volunteer editors the system is rigged.
I am sure Vertical programmers can automate the feature to delete every reported post.
When there is an offensive flame bait post about Jennifer Lawrence, and several responses to that post, not deleting flame-bait is just an excuse because no one reported the post. BTW crew was discussing the topic.
777Jet wrote:That would be great! The automated notification system on the old site was great because you knew the reason why each post was deleted, and, it was kind of a warning to improve your behavior if things were getting heated. Now posts just go missing, you don't know why, and the first you hear is when you get the personal e-mail from the mods - which might be too late if you've been very naughty! One suggestion; if the automated system comes back I think it would be good to receive the automated message in the PM inbox in here, instead of in our outside e-mail address that is linked to the site.