canyonblue17
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Why was forum topic about PBI being named after Trump locked

Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:37 pm

This topic was locked less than 6 hours after it was started. It was a legitimate topic that received thousands of views and dozens of responses (some of which were off topic) but many that were. I have seen much worse topics go on for days before being locked. Can someone please explain why the potentially offensive remarks weren't just removed so the topic could continue, rather than shutting down the entire topic?
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qf789
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Re: Why was forum topic about PBI being named after Trump locked

Tue Jan 31, 2017 2:20 am

You will need to email the moderators at moderators@airliners.net so we can answer your question. We do not comment on moderation issues in open forum (such as deleted posts, locking threads).
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atcsundevil
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Re: Why was forum topic about PBI being named after Trump locked

Tue Jan 31, 2017 3:12 am

canyonblue17 wrote:
This topic was locked less than 6 hours after it was started. It was a legitimate topic that received thousands of views and dozens of responses (some of which were off topic) but many that were. I have seen much worse topics go on for days before being locked. Can someone please explain why the potentially offensive remarks weren't just removed so the topic could continue, rather than shutting down the entire topic?

Please understand that initiating such a politically charged topic after several days of extremely politically charged topics in the Civil Aviation forum was perhaps rather unfortunate timing. I have no doubts over the legitimacy of your topic -- it presents an interesting discussion -- but it is extremely labor intensive for us to watch these threads and attempt to keep things civil. These threads move fast, and they can get unruly.

We can provide more specifics if you choose to contact us, but please know that it isn't that we want to stifle discussion. Forum rules state the the Non Av forum is the only permissible forum for political topics, and topics like yours walk the line. Unfortunately many users pull topics across the line, and lately it's been extremely difficult to reign them back in.

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canyonblue17
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Re: Why was forum topic about PBI being named after Trump locked

Tue Jan 31, 2017 4:16 am

If you see my profile you are aware that I am not new to this site. You can also tell that I am very selective about things that I comment on and topics that I discuss. I absolutely understand the concern over the topic becoming political, but political correctness should never trump open and honest discussion of an appropriate topic. There is a word for that - censorship. I am a former journalist who is all too familiar with the concept of opinions being stifled. While there were clearly some slightly off-topic responses, there were many more valuable comments. If moderators can't moderate, and Airliners.net contributors have to be concerned every time a slightly controversial topic draws critics, maybe there are better websites to take my almost 700 photos and thoughts. And that would be a shame. At a time when this website has been losing so many contributors and viewers for a plethora of reasons, you would think everything should be done to keep the ones it still has. By the way, I am more than happy to discuss this issue in a public forum. Secrecy's grip can strangle free expression.
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atcsundevil
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Re: Why was forum topic about PBI being named after Trump locked

Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:35 pm

canyonblue17 wrote:
If you see my profile you are aware that I am not new to this site. You can also tell that I am very selective about things that I comment on and topics that I discuss. I absolutely understand the concern over the topic becoming political, but political correctness should never trump open and honest discussion of an appropriate topic. There is a word for that - censorship. I am a former journalist who is all too familiar with the concept of opinions being stifled. While there were clearly some slightly off-topic responses, there were many more valuable comments. If moderators can't moderate, and Airliners.net contributors have to be concerned every time a slightly controversial topic draws critics, maybe there are better websites to take my almost 700 photos and thoughts. And that would be a shame. At a time when this website has been losing so many contributors and viewers for a plethora of reasons, you would think everything should be done to keep the ones it still has. By the way, I am more than happy to discuss this issue in a public forum. Secrecy's grip can strangle free expression.

It is not censorship, it's asking users to respect the mission of this site, which is aviation, not politics. That is why the Non Aviation forum exists. Forum rules state under the Non Av forum, "This is the only forum where political comments are allowed." If politically-based comments are posted in other forums -- especially Civil Aviation -- then the majority of our users expect us to moderate appropriately.

Call it what you will, but I have no interest in censorship or stifling discussion. My interest, and indeed the interest of the other moderators who all volunteer their time to this site, is to facilitate a place for aviation discussion to thrive. If you were a journalist, then you're well aware of the heightened emotions in current politics. Expecting to engage in an aviation based discussion centering directly on the individual largely responsible for those heightened emotions without inciting off-topic political discourse is unrealistic at best. You had to be aware of the political comments which would inevitably follow.

Your thread was the sixth such thread in three days, all of which went entirely off-topic. That's a lot of work for us, and a lot of frustration from the majority of users who come here to read about airplanes. If you want a politically charged thread to go largely untouched by moderation, then I suggest you post it in the Non Av forum as requested by our rules. Just because it's called Non Aviation does not mean it's only for topics unrelated to aviation; it exists for blatantly political discussions related to aviation as well, and it allows for off-topic discussion to also take part. If you choose to post a topic in Civil Aviation, it is done with the understanding that the discussion needs to remain aviation-based, and we will have to moderate accordingly.

I requested that you err your concerns in private, because it is not our policy to discuss specific deletions in a public forum. Maybe you don't value that privacy, but most of our members do.
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canyonblue17
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Re: Why was forum topic about PBI being named after Trump locked

Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:18 pm

First off - what is there to hide? Why are moderators so concerned about keeping deletion reasons private. If more people could learn about why deletions occur by reading them in this forum, don't you think there would be less forums deleted - making your job easier?

Second - the discussion was about an airport name - not politics. I never once asked for input or opinion on President Trump's politics. The fact that politics entered into the discussion should not be immediate cause for deletion. You even called the topic "legitimate." If moderators couldn't keep the topic on track, that should be an issue between you and those trying to derail it, not the actual forum itself.

Third - you state that the forum went completely off-topic. This is flat out false. I learned a lot from many of the responses - including the presidential naming of numerous other airports and the fact that Congress is involved in the decision. And there easily could have been more to come - were it not for the censorship.

Fourth - you denigrate the concept of heightened emotions in topical discussion - when many would argue the other approach. Heightened emotions can create a rich foundation of views - some agreeable - some not so much, but all vital. What detriment to this website was being caused - little to none. What benefit was created - thousands of readers and dozens of responses. Either I don't understand the purpose of this site - or someone is trying to redefine it.
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canyonblue17
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Re: Why was forum topic about PBI being named after Trump locked

Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:31 pm

Just a quick post script - one of the front page topics right now has Trump's name in it - and is very much about politics. I look forward to seeing it deleted or moved to the Non-Av forum soon.
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Re: Why was forum topic about PBI being named after Trump locked

Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:33 pm

You seem to have some valid points.
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canyonblue17
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Re: Why was forum topic about PBI being named after Trump locked

Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:37 am

Just wondering whether or not the forum can be unlocked and reposted?
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canyonblue17
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Re: Why was forum topic about PBI being named after Trump locked

Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:03 pm

I have noticed recently any forum topic that could potentially be twisted into a political debate is issued a moderator warning with the addition of a link to the Non-Av forum for further discussion. I was wondering if that warning could be added to this original topic and then have it reopened?
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