The Wall Scam: Bigots and Their Money Are Soon Parted
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2019/05/1 ... on-parted/

I know we should feel sorry for the victims of scams, but in this case it’s hard to contain the schadenfreude:
A December fundraising campaign brought in more than $20 million over the course of a few weeks, its thousands of donors united by a common goal: the construction of a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border, oft-promised by President Trump.

Some four months later, a contingent of those supporters is ready to see what their money has built.

The now-famous border wall GoFundMe was conceived by Purple Heart recipient Brian Kolfage, who wrote at the time he was upset by “too many illegals . . . taking advantage of the United States taxpayers,” and the “political games from both parties” when it came to border security. Kolfage, a triple amputee, pressed onward despite falling short of his $1 billion goal — launching a nonprofit to build portions of the wall on private land for a “fraction of what it costs the government.”


WHO did not see this coming???

I hope NO A.netters got caught up into falling for this scam...

BN747

I really don't see what is so shocking about this. Crowdfunding is used for all sorts of things. Some scams, some health care, some just because. The government wasn't working fast enough for these people who think the government can not do anything at all.

Maybe everyone who thinks a wall is the be all and end all should just go down to the southern border and start building with their own financial resources and their own time.

BN747 wrote:

WHO did not see this coming???

It should be no surprise that the same simpletons who fall for the blatantly-racist "foreigners are ruining out country!" demagoguery would also fall for a "we can fix this better than the government!" solution. It should also be no surprise that the same simpletons who don't believe in the resilience and strength of our nation - a nation founded by, and strengthened by immigrants, by the way - would also have so little faith in the government itself.

Reprobates stealing from reprobates? If you are looking for sympathy, don't look to me. Look in the dictionary... you'll find "sympathy" there. It's right between "shit" and "syphilis"...

seb146 wrote:

I really don't see what is so shocking about this. Crowdfunding is used for all sorts of things. Some scams, some health care, some just because. The government wasn't working fast enough for these people who think the government can not do anything at all.

Maybe everyone who thinks a wall is the be all and end all should just go down to the southern border and start building with their own financial resources and their own time.

Not shocking but the supporting fans proven to the founder that P.T. Barnum was 100% correct...he knew that when he set up the account - I'm sure.

I thought of a similar scam when I was in college, I actually thought of pulling a Marcus Garvey - baiting racist whites with aim of funding a movement to entice ALL blacks for relocation to the sunny beaches of Senegal (cheery bubbly photos on the beach -the good life). Of course, incredibly few blacks would fall for it, but they people who contributed to this Wall BS, them or their parents would have made me a million by week's end - and I would have closed shop disappeared and sipping drinks on a beach north of Rio. Had I foreseen America 2019 w Brokahontas leading....I would have probably gone thru with it.

Liberals would have instantly smelled a rat in the mix, but the Super Haters...they couldn't empty their bank accounts fast enough! Bronkahontas/Bankrupt Donny, would have made his biggest donation EVER!

BN747

That's actually a real shame. I'm fully supportive of such projects in theory; if the right wing wants their vanity projects, they're welcome to fund them themselves.

Of course it is no coincidence that fools are easily parted with their money.

To start, what, only USD20M? I thought there are all these wall supporters with all the money in the world that can fund everything themselves?

As for those people that donate - they did vote for IQ45 after all, you think the IQ of those donors are actually above 45 and know what a scam is?

At least they can write off that donation in their next tax form...

That "source" isn't exactly very objective. It is mostly an opinion about what the author thinks of Trump voters. I am not supportive of this guy's efforts and I think people should have kept their money, but this "news" piece is really short on facts. Opinion isn't news...

I understand these people's frustration and I support cracking down on illegal immigration myself. Not only is it against the law, but it's also incredibly unfair to legal immigrants and American citizens. However, giving someone money for a crowdfunding campaign to build parts of the wall on private land between the US and Mexico is just plain stupid. I have a hard time feeling bad for the people who gave money to this cause. Building a wall is not the catch all thing that will solve the illegal immigration problem in the US. Keep your money and use your votes to solve this problem.

KentB27 wrote:

Not only is it against the law

So what if it's against the law? There's nothing wrong with it. Helping slaves to escape was against the law too. Sometimes, those breaking the law are in the right and those making and enforcing it are in the wrong. This is one of those situations.

but it's also incredibly unfair to legal immigrants and American citizens.

Was the Underground Railroad unfair to former slaves who gained their freedom the "right" way, via legal manumission?

Yes, comparing immigration laws to slavery is a valid comparison. Both are unjust and morally-indefensible restrictions on a person's fundamental, inherent human right to live one's life as one wishes, where one wishes, in whatever peaceful manner one wishes.

BerenErchamion wrote:

KentB27 wrote:

Not only is it against the law

So what if it's against the law? There's nothing wrong with it. Helping slaves to escape was against the law too. Sometimes, those breaking the law are in the right and those making and enforcing it are in the wrong. This is one of those situations.

but it's also incredibly unfair to legal immigrants and American citizens.

Was the Underground Railroad unfair to former slaves who gained their freedom the "right" way, via legal manumission?

Yes, comparing immigration laws to slavery is a valid comparison. Both are unjust and morally-indefensible restrictions on a person's fundamental, inherent human right to live one's life as one wishes, where one wishes, in whatever peaceful manner one wishes.

Are you for real? We have immigration laws for a reason. Now one could argue that our immigration laws need a ton of work so do our asylum laws which far too many are taking advantage of..Slavery is a totally different subject. Just because you live in a country that is poor and run by dictators maybe does not give anyone the right to free and unfettered access to the United States and our services. How many people in the world live in abject poverty? Do you think they all should be able to come here? Who is going to pay for it? Do you really think this country can absorb all the worlds poverty stricken and still survive? No there is no inherent human right to anything SMFH. What if my wish was to hang out in your living room and help myself to your refrigerator?

stratosphere wrote:

BerenErchamion wrote:

KentB27 wrote:

Not only is it against the law

So what if it's against the law? There's nothing wrong with it. Helping slaves to escape was against the law too. Sometimes, those breaking the law are in the right and those making and enforcing it are in the wrong. This is one of those situations.

but it's also incredibly unfair to legal immigrants and American citizens.

Was the Underground Railroad unfair to former slaves who gained their freedom the "right" way, via legal manumission?

Yes, comparing immigration laws to slavery is a valid comparison. Both are unjust and morally-indefensible restrictions on a person's fundamental, inherent human right to live one's life as one wishes, where one wishes, in whatever peaceful manner one wishes.

Are you for real? We have immigration laws for a reason.

And Nazi Germany had the Nuremberg laws for a reason.

Just because there's a reason doesn't mean that that reason is a particularly good or morally-defensible one.

our asylum laws which far too many are taking advantage of

So you don't actually know what you're talking about? Or are you just a disgusting racist who thinks that even an incredibly small number is "far too many"?

Just because you live in a country that is poor and run by dictators maybe does not give anyone the right to free and unfettered access to the United States and our services.

Why not? Where someone is born is basically totally random and arbitrary, so what gives people who were born here some greater moral right to be here than people who weren't, since in either case it's a distinction totally outside of anyone's control?

How many people in the world live in abject poverty? Do you think they all should be able to come here?

Why shouldn't they?

What if my wish was to hang out in your living room and help myself to your refrigerator?

You might have something resembling a point if a country were like a house. But it's not, so you don't.

stratosphere wrote:

Are you for real? We have immigration laws for a reason.

Yep, we have passed immigration laws for a reason - albeit not a very honorable reason. Bigotry is at its heart.

For the first 100 years of our history, we had no immigration laws at all; it wasn't until 1882 that Congress passed the first one, The Chinese Exclusion Act. (In 1885 the Paige Act banned Chinese Women from entering). During the California Gold Rush, Chinese worked panning gold; as the gold dried up, whites began a campaign r=to eliminate the competition, leading to laws that discriminated against the Chinese, and enacting the first immigration laws in the USA that .focused on a particular ethnic group.

Those laws remained largely intact until the Immigration Act of 1924, the first law to limit immigrants by using a quota system, based on an immigrant's country of origin. It was an equally egregious move, this time passed in an attempt to stem the flow of both Asians and Jews - who, at that time, were being denigrated by parts of the US Government.
.
So yes, you can say we "have immigration laws for a reason" - but when you acknowledge the reason, you must admit that the bigotry and xenophobia we thought was relegated to the past is alive and well in today's debate.
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stratosphere wrote:

How many people in the world live in abject poverty? Do you think they all should be able to come here? Who is going to pay for it? Do you really think this country can absorb all the worlds poverty stricken and still survive??

Every credible study shows that immigrants contribute to the US economy; they are not a drain on it. "Trump’s characterization of immigrants, as people who drain public resources, however, is not backed by the data. Unauthorized immigrants aren’t usually eligible for federal benefits, for instance, and multiple studies have found that immigrants help the economy grow."

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/making-sense/4-myths-about-how-immigrants-affect-the-u-s-economy
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stratosphere wrote:

What if my wish was to hang out in your living room and help myself to your refrigerator?

If you were more enlightened, I would welcome the conversation.

stratosphere wrote:

Just because you live in a country that is poor and run by dictators maybe does not give anyone the right to free and unfettered access to the United States and our services?

There's seems to be something you are either unaware of or are overlooking because it does not support your narrative. These dictators you speak in a lot of cases are supported by the USA. In some cases installed by coups sponsored by the USA. Said dictators then brutalize their own people and/or spend what little money they have on weapons from the US instead of their people. Or in the case of Saudi Arabia have plenty of money and use those weapons on it's neighbors in Yemen.

So get off your soapbox and don't be so shocked when you mess up someones neighborhood and they come looking for a place to stay.

There's also the small matter that a wall will do little to curtail illegal immigration, the vast majority of which happens due to visa overstays.

Then comes the real question: Is it worth spending billions of taxpayer money into a project that will only solve a small fraction of the overall problem?
And when I say billions, I don't mean just the construction... It may be a dumb wall, but it still requires maintenance and personnel to keep an eye on it. The US is not even able to maintain its important infrastructure like roads, bridges and its power distribution network, can it afford to maintain this?

Is there a better, smarter and cheaper way to reduce illegal immigration?

This, of course, assumes we're not even going to touch the debate of whether illegal immigration is actually beneficial or disadvantageous to the society and, in the case of the US, I think the answer to this might surprise many...

Of course, thinking in terms of return on investment is a rational thing to do, and when it comes to the 'build the wall' / MAGA crowd, I have a feeling that emotions come into play more than level-headed analysis.

I think the wall should be crowdfunded. It would allow for it to be paid only by those who want it which, ironically, is very much a Republican concept...

Francoflier wrote:

I think the wall should be crowdfunded. It would allow for it to be paid only by those who want it which, ironically, is very much a Republican concept...

I'll take it further; the "wall" should be built by the subset of xenophobes and bigots who are clamoring for it. Let them go down to the border and start the building process, in the heat and dust of the summer... and let's see how long it will take for them to start begging those hard-working immigrants (whom they abhor - remember?) to take their place...