stratclub
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Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:29 am

I'm really at a loss with this. Weaponing the IRS at a state level me thinks. Read the story below and post back with your opinion. Let's not turn this into a Trump bashing thread.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/washingto ... 41887.html

The Washington state Senate passed legislation on March 12 that would block President Donald Trump from the state ballot in the 2020 presidential election unless he releases his tax returns.

Washington state senators voted 28-21 to advance the bill to the state’s House of Representatives, according to CBS News. The legislation would require candidates in the 2020 election to release five years of tax returns in order to appear on primary or general election ballots. The bill also directs Washington’s secretary of state to make the returns public.

The move is specifically targeting Trump, according to its sponsor, State Sen. Patty Kuderer (D). Trump exercised a legal right to keep his tax returns private during the 2016 election.

“Although releasing tax returns has been the norm for about the last 40 years in presidential elections, unfortunately, we’ve seen that norm broken,” Kuderer said, according to CBS News. She confirmed later that she was referring to Trump in the statement.

“It’s become part of the vetting process,” Kuderer said.

Presidents usually release their tax returns either before the election or after winning. Trump explained that his returns cannot be released since they are being audited.

Every American citizen has a right to keep his or her tax returns private. Returns can only be released with approval from the commissioner of the IRS.

The Washington state bill would likely be challenged in court if it becomes law. Republicans have said that any attempt to force Trump to release his tax returns would be unlawful.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am

Great. I think more states should do it.
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Dutchy
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:37 am

stratclub wrote:
I'm really at a loss with this. Weaponing the IRS at a state level me thinks. Read the story below and post back with your opinion. Let's not turn this into a Trump bashing thread.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/washingto ... 41887.html

The Washington state Senate passed legislation on March 12 that would block President Donald Trump from the state ballot in the 2020 presidential election unless he releases his tax returns.

Washington state senators voted 28-21 to advance the bill to the state’s House of Representatives, according to CBS News. The legislation would require candidates in the 2020 election to release five years of tax returns in order to appear on primary or general election ballots. The bill also directs Washington’s secretary of state to make the returns public.

The move is specifically targeting Trump, according to its sponsor, State Sen. Patty Kuderer (D). Trump exercised a legal right to keep his tax returns private during the 2016 election.

“Although releasing tax returns has been the norm for about the last 40 years in presidential elections, unfortunately, we’ve seen that norm broken,” Kuderer said, according to CBS News. She confirmed later that she was referring to Trump in the statement.

“It’s become part of the vetting process,” Kuderer said.

Presidents usually release their tax returns either before the election or after winning. Trump explained that his returns cannot be released since they are being audited.

Every American citizen has a right to keep his or her tax returns private. Returns can only be released with approval from the commissioner of the IRS.

The Washington state bill would likely be challenged in court if it becomes law. Republicans have said that any attempt to force Trump to release his tax returns would be unlawful.


Given that the American elections are highly vulnerable for monetary influence, I can understand that this bill has been past. Given that Trump has been in business, he is more vulnerable than others. Given his self-proclaimed love for money he is the most vulnerable. I think since Carter therefore it is more honoured in the observance than in the breach.

So it is a valid question, what is in those returns? You are right, of course, that everyone has the right to keep his returns private, but keep in mind that he voluntary stood for president. Even the now President Trump has said he would make his tax returns public. The IRS said he could release them without any problem, it was up to him, nobody else. So given the circumstances, even the die hard Trump fan must admit that this is strange.

So that said, one makes itself vulnerable as a democrat to propose this kind of bill, so strategically, why would a legislator put ones self in such a position?
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stratclub
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:12 am

Well, the Democrats tried to frame Trump and failed so now they are not skipping a beat and continuing there agenda of lies and hate to find ANYTHING they can to discredit him. Didn't the two years of lies from the Democrat owned media and the Democrats themselves tell anyone how despicable the Left really is?

Really boils down to motive. The left's only motive is to get Trump and the facts and the truth are irrelevant. Why should a Presidents rights to privacy be taken away because of the hate coming out of the Democrats?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:18 am

stratclub wrote:
Well, the Democrats tried to frame Trump and failed so now they are not skipping a beat and continuing there agenda of lies and hate to find ANYTHING they can to discredit him. Didn't the two years of lies from the Democrat owned media and the Democrats themselves tell anyone how despicable the Left really is?

Really boils down to motive. The left's only motive is to get Trump and the facts and the truth are irrelevant. Why should a Presidents rights to privacy be taken away because of the hate coming out of the Democrats?


If I were to say you are a Trump supporter, would I be right? If so, don't you find it strange that your candidate is refusing to make his tax returns public, even though he announced he would?
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stratclub
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:20 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
Great. I think more states should do it.

Why is that? do you believe that that you should not be able to vote for a candidate because some politician instead of doing the job they were elected to do, is helping the Democrats to weaponize the IRS? Just so you know, the President has the same rights to privacy as any other citizen.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:25 am

stratclub wrote:
the President has the same rights to privacy as any other citizen.


If you believe this, don't you think the periodic health checks of your president are a greater invasion of privacy and should be halted? And given his constant security detail, don't you think this is an invasion of privacy as well?
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stratosphere
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:32 am

I think everyone in congress should cough over their tax returns in my opinion .
 
stratclub
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:34 am

Dutchy wrote:
stratclub wrote:
Well, the Democrats tried to frame Trump and failed so now they are not skipping a beat and continuing there agenda of lies and hate to find ANYTHING they can to discredit him. Didn't the two years of lies from the Democrat owned media and the Democrats themselves tell anyone how despicable the Left really is?

Really boils down to motive. The left's only motive is to get Trump and the facts and the truth are irrelevant. Why should a Presidents rights to privacy be taken away because of the hate coming out of the Democrats?


If I were to say you are a Trump supporter, would I be right? If so, don't you find it strange that your candidate is refusing to make his tax returns public, even though he announced he would?


Well, by default. Essentially, we had no viable candidate so I picked the best of two evils since I couldn't write my cat in.

No, not a bit. There is no legal requirement for him to release his returns and since he is in fact being audited, his lawyers advised him not to. Why is that so strange? I wonder what the next witch hunt will be about?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:39 am

stratclub wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
stratclub wrote:
Well, the Democrats tried to frame Trump and failed so now they are not skipping a beat and continuing there agenda of lies and hate to find ANYTHING they can to discredit him. Didn't the two years of lies from the Democrat owned media and the Democrats themselves tell anyone how despicable the Left really is?

Really boils down to motive. The left's only motive is to get Trump and the facts and the truth are irrelevant. Why should a Presidents rights to privacy be taken away because of the hate coming out of the Democrats?


If I were to say you are a Trump supporter, would I be right? If so, don't you find it strange that your candidate is refusing to make his tax returns public, even though he announced he would?


Well, by default. Essentially, we had no viable candidate so I picked the best of two evils since I couldn't write my cat in.

No, not a bit. There is no legal requirement for him to release his returns and since he is in fact being audited, his lawyers advised him not to. Why is that so strange? I wonder what the next witch hunt will be about?


It has been 3 years, surely the audit must be done by now, so do you feel he should release his tax returns now?
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SteelChair
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:52 am

Why is this tax return business even an issue? Everyone knows that he is very wealthy and employs teams of lawyers to avoid (not evade) taxes. Do the dems think that, if somehow they put numbers to that, it changes anything?

The dems need to put forth a positive message, a platform for governing. This is not it imho. Its a distraction that only hurts them. Thats why he refuses to turn them over..
 
bennett123
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:41 am

As I understand it, every President since 1976 has been content to publish his Tax Returns except this one. Why the sudden change.

Also how many years of his Tax Returns are being audited by the IRS. Why not release the earlier ones and then release more as they become available.

What is he keen for the American people not to know.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:47 am

SteelChair wrote:
Its a distraction that only hurts them. Thats why he refuses to turn them over..


Oh that would be quite clever and shrewd. Something in me wishes it was this reason and this reason alone.
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Dutchy
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:50 am

bennett123 wrote:
What is he keen for the American people not to know.


Who knows, that he isn't as rich as he says he is (major blow to the ego department), his companies have major debts with Russian banks / companies (like one of his sons has been on record), that he has endured quite a bit of losses during the last few years (major blow to the ego department) or perhaps het is as shrewd as SteelCair is telling us. The answer could be quite revealing.
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trpmb6
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:37 pm

bennett123 wrote:
As I understand it, every President since 1976 has been content to publish his Tax Returns except this one. Why the sudden change.

Also how many years of his Tax Returns are being audited by the IRS. Why not release the earlier ones and then release more as they become available.

What is he keen for the American people not to know.



I think it's more that he knows even the most minute detail will be weaponized politically against him. As posted above, he has teams of lawyers and accountants to ensure he pays as little taxes as possible allowed by law. His returns are quite likely extremely complicated and the majority of americans probably wouldn't even understand half of what they saw and would rely on media spin for interpretation. Just look at how Bernie is being treated right now.

And lets be real... If there was really something there there.. it'd have been leaked by now. It's kind of funny sometimes to see people call Trump stupid, only to turn around and claim he is a part of some massive international conspiracy that has been masterfully implemented without a trace.
 
Magog
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:47 pm

If Washington keeps Trump off the ballot, it will play right into his hands. They will have made him a martyr.

Do I wish that Trump would release his tax returns? Absolutely. But this is not the way to go about it.
 
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:28 pm

The Sovereign State of Washington probably has the constitutional right to do this (ps - I think 'sovereignty' is bull sh*t, and only possible in a kingdom - and even then wobbly), but currently the concept has been accorded some confused reality. Besides Trump has said he would release his returns - time for him to just do it.
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:21 pm

Isn't this the 3rd thread opened on the subject?

Magog wrote:
If Washington keeps Trump off the ballot, it will play right into his hands. They will have made him a martyr.
Why? He said he'd release his returns. Nothing precludes him from releasing them either. And for those Constitution-loving conservatives, this is within the state's authority (you know...pesky States' Rights). The Constitution says who can serve as president; it doesn't say anything about a right to ballot access so...STATES' RIGHTS!

Magog wrote:
Do I wish that Trump would release his tax returns? Absolutely. But this is not the way to go about it.

He can release it to the SoS of each state with the condition to not be made public. Event then, does he have a chance at winning WA?
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dmg626
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:27 pm

Dutchy wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Its a distraction that only hurts them. Thats why he refuses to turn them over..


Oh that would be quite clever and shrewd. Something in me wishes it was this reason and this reason alone.


He knows how to play the left like a fiddle, it’s been working now for several years.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:32 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
As I understand it, every President since 1976 has been content to publish his Tax Returns except this one. Why the sudden change.

Also how many years of his Tax Returns are being audited by the IRS. Why not release the earlier ones and then release more as they become available.

What is he keen for the American people not to know.



I think it's more that he knows even the most minute detail will be weaponized politically against him.

He knows that his tax returns will confirm that he has lied about his wealth, just like everything else, including where is father was born. Even if there are illegal things in his tax return, he probably doesn't know/care about that--his entire self worth is wrapped up in convincing people he's worth billions, when he's probably worth millions.
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seb146
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:46 pm

Magog wrote:
If Washington keeps Trump off the ballot, it will play right into his hands. They will have made him a martyr.

Do I wish that Trump would release his tax returns? Absolutely. But this is not the way to go about it.


If he is so innocent and such a good businessman, he should have no problem releasing his taxes. He can even do it when he is under audit, so that excuse is out the window.

There are so many things Democrats will defeat him on. The economy, health care, education, equal rights, foreign policy, but he will simply stand in front of everyone and say he did just the opposite. Even after shown proof, he will start ranting about "you are lying! You should be in jail for being dishonest!" and so forth as he does. According to some sources he is up to 10 lies per day on average since he moved into the White House. But who cares? Politicians lie. Nothing to see here. Move along.
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:58 pm

dmg626 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Its a distraction that only hurts them. Thats why he refuses to turn them over..


Oh that would be quite clever and shrewd. Something in me wishes it was this reason and this reason alone.


He knows how to play the left like a fiddle, it’s been working now for several years.


Just like the "maybe we'll release illegal immigrants in sanctuary cities and states only"

My how quickly that exposed a few people. DeBlasio threatening to sue Trump being one example. Cher's tweet was probably my favorite one.
 
winginit
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:00 pm

stratclub wrote:
There is no legal requirement for him to release his returns and since he is in fact being audited, his lawyers advised him not to. Why is that so strange? I wonder what the next witch hunt will be about?


Do you genuinely believe that the reason Trump hasn't released his tax returns is because he's being audited? I want you to say that outright if that's what you believe and try not to laugh while saying it.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:09 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Oh that would be quite clever and shrewd. Something in me wishes it was this reason and this reason alone.


He knows how to play the left like a fiddle, it’s been working now for several years.


Just like the "maybe we'll release illegal immigrants in sanctuary cities and states only"

Send 'em over. We have jobs, and it'll help reduce the crime rate. Maybe next we can send all unwanted American children to red states? Now that would be legitimately cruel yet totally on-brand for republicans.

winginit wrote:
stratclub wrote:
There is no legal requirement for him to release his returns and since he is in fact being audited, his lawyers advised him not to. Why is that so strange? I wonder what the next witch hunt will be about?


Do you genuinely believe that the reason Trump hasn't released his tax returns is because he's being audited? I want you to say that outright if that's what you believe and try not to laugh while saying it.

World's longest audit :rotfl:
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mham001
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:23 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
Why? He said he'd release his returns. Nothing precludes him from releasing them either. And for those Constitution-loving conservatives, this is within the state's authority (you know...pesky States' Rights). The Constitution says who can serve as president; it doesn't say anything about a right to ballot access so...STATES' RIGHTS!


So what precludes other states from denying the opposition candidate from their ballots? See what you've done there?

Lots of grandstanding here, since the Russian issue apparently collapsed, they are looking for a new issue. And just because it was "the norm for the last 40 years" means nothing. It wasn't "the norm" for the previous 200 years. I know I wouldn't want these jackals at the Washington Post pouring over every detail of my private life looking for the tiniest shred to make a headline and increase their revenue, the media's behavior over the Russian thing has been disgusting. Of course, there was the Bill Clinton used underwear donation...
 
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:27 pm

SteelChair wrote:
Why is this tax return business even an issue?

Because Trump himself stated and committed that he would release them. He has kept many of his other very difficult campaign promises, this is not really any different.

And as to why it is desired? It is always good to know where our leaders get their "gold" from. Even Republicans and conservatives are showing extreme interest in this. Look at how much of an issue they are making that several candidates are millionaires. It is obviously a universal issue and concern.

Tugg
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BartSimpson
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:34 pm

stratclub wrote:
Well, the Democrats tried to frame Trump and failed so now they are not skipping a beat and continuing there agenda of lies and hate to find ANYTHING they can to discredit him. Didn't the two years of lies from the Democrat owned media and the Democrats themselves tell anyone how despicable the Left really is?

Really boils down to motive. The left's only motive is to get Trump and the facts and the truth are irrelevant. Why should a Presidents rights to privacy be taken away because of the hate coming out of the Democrats?


So, you don't want this thread to degrade into a Trump bashing thread as per your opening statement but it's ok to bash the left and the democrats?
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:46 pm

So should we also pass laws requiring the release of birth certificates now?
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:51 pm

mham001 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Why? He said he'd release his returns. Nothing precludes him from releasing them either. And for those Constitution-loving conservatives, this is within the state's authority (you know...pesky States' Rights). The Constitution says who can serve as president; it doesn't say anything about a right to ballot access so...STATES' RIGHTS!


So what precludes other states from denying the opposition candidate from their ballots? See what you've done there?

Lots of grandstanding here, since the Russian issue apparently collapsed, they are looking for a new issue.

What new issue? Trump promised to release his tax returns in 2014. Nothing new about it.

trpmb6 wrote:
So should we also pass laws requiring the release of birth certificates now?

Is this your way of telling us Barak Hussein Obama is still a mooselamb from Kenya?
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:54 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
So should we also pass laws requiring the release of birth certificates now?

If that is deemed important, sure why not?

Tugg
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:08 pm

Tugger wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
So should we also pass laws requiring the release of birth certificates now?

If that is deemed important, sure why not?

Tugg


I think there is more basis in law requiring a birth certificate than taxes. Not that I'm advocating it is something needed. And to maverick, no I do not believe Obama is from Kenya.
 
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:30 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
So should we also pass laws requiring the release of birth certificates now?

If that is deemed important, sure why not?

Tugg


I think there is more basis in law requiring a birth certificate than taxes. Not that I'm advocating it is something needed. And to maverick, no I do not believe Obama is from Kenya.

If equally applied with sufficient notice of the requirement, I can see it being acceptable. And if it is illegal to demand IRS records then just make it that a full financial accounting audit is required (and I think it ought to be paid/reimbursed for by the state), perhaps for those that win the primary.

Tugg
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:39 pm

mham001 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Why? He said he'd release his returns. Nothing precludes him from releasing them either. And for those Constitution-loving conservatives, this is within the state's authority (you know...pesky States' Rights). The Constitution says who can serve as president; it doesn't say anything about a right to ballot access so...STATES' RIGHTS!


So what precludes other states from denying the opposition candidate from their ballots? See what you've done there?

Nothing, but the conditions have to be applied uniformly to all candidates.

In several states (if not all), candidates must pay a fee to be in the ballot. That already precludes many people from even being on the ballot.

It would be discriminatory if Oklahoma, for example, charged Democrats to be on the ballot while allowing Republicans to get on it at no charge. If Oklahoma, however, asked Democrats to release tax returns and birth certificates, it's fine as long as Republicans and Libertarians and others are asked to do the same.
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trpmb6
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:42 pm

Tugger wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
If that is deemed important, sure why not?

Tugg


I think there is more basis in law requiring a birth certificate than taxes. Not that I'm advocating it is something needed. And to maverick, no I do not believe Obama is from Kenya.

If equally applied with sufficient notice of the requirement, I can see it being acceptable. And if it is illegal to demand IRS records then just make it that a full financial accounting audit is required (and I think it ought to be paid/reimbursed for by the state), perhaps for those that win the primary.

Tugg


I would support an independent organization auditing financial records of presidential candidates. Or even make it a requirement of the IRS to perform that function for all federal office holders and general election candidates. I mean congress requires cabinet nominees to submit their tax forms right? or maybe it's just a financial disclosure form similar to what senators/representatives submit?

What I don't support is releasing things for public consumption. For instance, what if you didn't want your competitor to know how much you're charging for building rents or this or that. Protecting other innocent parties who make payments to you or you made to them. Maybe you don't want someone to know that you were willing to pay Contractor Y 100,000 dollars for a job and Contractor X only got 80,000 in a similar job. I'm not saying of course that you'd find these in his tax return - but of course the next logical step beyond requesting tax returns is all the supporting data that goes into generating it. And I guarantee you that releasing tax forms would not be enough. It's never enough. There will always be some demand to delve deeper. Just like with Mueller. It will never be enough.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:48 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
What I don't support is releasing things for public consumption. For instance, what if you didn't want your competitor to know how much you're charging for building rents or this or that. Protecting other innocent parties who make payments to you or you made to them. Maybe you don't want someone to know that you were willing to pay Contractor Y 100,000 dollars for a job and Contractor X only got 80,000 in a similar job. I'm not saying of course that you'd find these in his tax return - but of course the next logical step beyond requesting tax returns is all the supporting data that goes into generating it. And I guarantee you that releasing tax forms would not be enough. It's never enough. There will always be some demand to delve deeper. Just like with Mueller. It will never be enough.

And it doesn't have to be. We're not given PII from the candidates for ballot access. That information can be stored locally with the SoS and not released to the public. However, this doesn't prevent the SoS from notifying pertinent federal authorities (or state authorities if the candidate resides in the state) about abnormal/unusual oddities. If a candidate made $1M from book sales (as an example), that won't raise the same red flags as saying that you made $1M from foreign transactions. The IRS may very well have put the matter to rest or is still investigating, but a red flag could also be raised to further scrutinize the returns.
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stratclub
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:05 pm

BartSimpson wrote:
stratclub wrote:
Well, the Democrats tried to frame Trump and failed so now they are not skipping a beat and continuing there agenda of lies and hate to find ANYTHING they can to discredit him. Didn't the two years of lies from the Democrat owned media and the Democrats themselves tell anyone how despicable the Left really is?

Really boils down to motive. The left's only motive is to get Trump and the facts and the truth are irrelevant. Why should a Presidents rights to privacy be taken away because of the hate coming out of the Democrats?


So, you don't want this thread to degrade into a Trump bashing thread as per your opening statement but it's ok to bash the left and the democrats?

No I am not Demo bashing or suggesting it, just calling the Demos out on continually lying and spewing hate about Trump for the last 2 or 3 years. Remember every time you turned on far left leaning CNN it was always some "Trump breaking news" when in reality it wasn't news at all just more vitriol from the Trump hating Left. Stuff like: "BOMBSHELL!!! Don Jr. is going to jail!!!", or some other made up nonsense.

Watch this duly elected congresswoman from New York that is the Democrats darling for the moment expound on impeaching Trump but clearly can't come up with a valid reason and keeps spouting that (for impeachment) there is "just so much" and then walks the conversation away from the question repeatedly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNjI04HxjHs
 
mham001
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:15 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
mham001 wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
Why? He said he'd release his returns. Nothing precludes him from releasing them either. And for those Constitution-loving conservatives, this is within the state's authority (you know...pesky States' Rights). The Constitution says who can serve as president; it doesn't say anything about a right to ballot access so...STATES' RIGHTS!


So what precludes other states from denying the opposition candidate from their ballots? See what you've done there?

Nothing, but the conditions have to be applied uniformly to all candidates.

In several states (if not all), candidates must pay a fee to be in the ballot. That already precludes many people from even being on the ballot.

It would be discriminatory if Oklahoma, for example, charged Democrats to be on the ballot while allowing Republicans to get on it at no charge. If Oklahoma, however, asked Democrats to release tax returns and birth certificates, it's fine as long as Republicans and Libertarians and others are asked to do the same.


They can come up with whatever nonsense reason they want. If Opposition Candidate slept with Mrs. Robinson, they could eliminate by law all those who ever had that pleasure. So what there was no law against sleeping with Mrs Robinson, just as there was no law that says he must release his tax forms.

And then the question was raised here, a very good one. To WHOM? Why should the public see it, by law, it is private, and you know the media will never stop, just look at how 'Mueller Report Redactions!' have become the new mantra in the headlines this week. And it will never stop.
 
bennett123
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:35 pm

Apparently all previous Presidents since Carter released their Tax Returns without issues.

What makes Trump different.
 
MikeDrop
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:03 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Apparently all previous Presidents since Carter released their Tax Returns without issues.

What makes Trump different.

Well, he was smart enough to decline. He knew that his supporters didn't care and that his enemies only wanted to look for ways to hurt him. So why give them any help?

Perhaps most importantly, Trump knows his enemies will use any tax return info to damage him and his family regardless of what they find. Lets assume that there are no legal gotchas in his return - its actually a pretty fair assumption considering that he's been audited many times. How would they use it to hurt him? Every person and company that has ever done business with or is currently doing business with will be boycotted and targeted. There will be protests and vandalism. Innocent people will be harmed financially. Just the legal fees from the baseless subpoenas form Adam Schiff and others in the democrat machine will bankrupt some. It is fair to assume that this is actually Adam Schiffs goal

One only needs to do a simple search to find examples where the "resistance" has tried to hurt the businesses owned by Trump and his family and any one doing business with them.

It is fair to assume that the democrats want the returns to feed to their base to use to damage Trump and his family's business interests. This is NOT what the law is meant for and Trump has a valid reason to refuse to release them.

Mike Drop
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:41 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
As I understand it, every President since 1976 has been content to publish his Tax Returns except this one. Why the sudden change.

Also how many years of his Tax Returns are being audited by the IRS. Why not release the earlier ones and then release more as they become available.

What is he keen for the American people not to know.



I think it's more that he knows even the most minute detail will be weaponized politically against him.

He knows that his tax returns will confirm that he has lied about his wealth, just like everything else, including where is father was born. Even if there are illegal things in his tax return, he probably doesn't know/care about that--his entire self worth is wrapped up in convincing people he's worth billions, when he's probably worth millions.


We already know this is the case. Forensic analysis of his past dealings and debt load put T.O. assets in the several hundred million range. And we know the T.O. is not a major player in the global hotel industry as claimed - they lack properties in marquee luxury markets like SE Asia, Mediterranean, the Caribbean, Tahiti, etc, have no presence in major global capitals, where one'll always find a Four Seasons, Le Meridien, or Intercontinental.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
stratclub
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:18 pm

bennett123 wrote:
Apparently all previous Presidents since Carter released their Tax Returns without issues.

What makes Trump different.

Probably the groundless attacks on him by the Lunatic Left pushing their agenda of hate. Go to an impeach Trump rally and ask people there why Trump should be impeached and most will not have an answer other than groundless hateful attacks and name calling. The Demos agenda for the tax returns has nothing to do with anything that benefits the American People. Since the Demos attempt to frame him didn't work, they are on to the next thing in their effort to discredit him.

I would not be inclined to release any personal information about myself in such an atmosphere of hate either.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:54 pm

stratclub wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
Apparently all previous Presidents since Carter released their Tax Returns without issues.

What makes Trump different.

Probably the groundless attacks on him by the Lunatic Left pushing their agenda of hate. Go to an impeach Trump rally and ask people there why Trump should be impeached and most will not have an answer other than groundless hateful attacks and name calling. The Demos agenda for the tax returns has nothing to do with anything that benefits the American People. Since the Demos attempt to frame him didn't work, they are on to the next thing in their effort to discredit him.

I would not be inclined to release any personal information about myself in such an atmosphere of hate either.


You are not serving the public - giant difference.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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Tugger
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:30 am

stratclub wrote:
I would not be inclined to release any personal information about myself in such an atmosphere of hate either.

You mean like a "long form" birth certificate?

Tugg
I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. - W. Shatner
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cledaybuck
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:48 am

trpmb6 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:

I think there is more basis in law requiring a birth certificate than taxes. Not that I'm advocating it is something needed. And to maverick, no I do not believe Obama is from Kenya.

If equally applied with sufficient notice of the requirement, I can see it being acceptable. And if it is illegal to demand IRS records then just make it that a full financial accounting audit is required (and I think it ought to be paid/reimbursed for by the state), perhaps for those that win the primary.

Tugg


I would support an independent organization auditing financial records of presidential candidates. Or even make it a requirement of the IRS to perform that function for all federal office holders and general election candidates. I mean congress requires cabinet nominees to submit their tax forms right? or maybe it's just a financial disclosure form similar to what senators/representatives submit?

What I don't support is releasing things for public consumption. For instance, what if you didn't want your competitor to know how much you're charging for building rents or this or that. Protecting other innocent parties who make payments to you or you made to them. Maybe you don't want someone to know that you were willing to pay Contractor Y 100,000 dollars for a job and Contractor X only got 80,000 in a similar job. I'm not saying of course that you'd find these in his tax return - but of course the next logical step beyond requesting tax returns is all the supporting data that goes into generating it. And I guarantee you that releasing tax forms would not be enough. It's never enough. There will always be some demand to delve deeper. Just like with Mueller. It will never be enough.

If it is so important to keep that information private, don’t run for President of the United States. Nothing is being demanded of him that isn’t expected if every other Presidential candidate in my lifetime. And yes, the Mueller report should be made public too, with as few redactions as legally possible.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:01 am

The details of his and nephew's dealing with oligarch friends of Putin could further harm Trump's standings with independents. We already know that conservative Republicans don't give a damn.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:29 am

stratosphere wrote:
I think everyone in congress should cough over their tax returns in my opinion .


Along with the President, so do I.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
stratclub
Topic Author
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:33 am

WarRI1 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
I think everyone in congress should cough over their tax returns in my opinion .


Along with the President, so do I.

Too funny. I can just imagine the push back on that. The question would certainly be raised on how someone in congress that makes $174,000 a year has accumulated millions of dollars in wealth. Probably even funnier than the push back from the stanch supporters of sanctuary cities when Trump offered to send all of the illegals to those cities.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:51 am

stratclub wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
stratosphere wrote:
I think everyone in congress should cough over their tax returns in my opinion .


Along with the President, so do I.

Too funny. I can just imagine the push back on that. The question would certainly be raised on how someone in congress that makes $174,000 a year has accumulated millions of dollars in wealth. Probably even funnier than the push back from the stanch supporters of sanctuary cities when Trump offered to send all of the illegals to those cities.


Those with nothing to hide would be for it - many in Congress have been forward about their earnings status, especially when assumptions of corruption are unfounded. Right wingers love to pick on Pelosi's wealth for example, without ever looking into her family and the fact her husband is a known real estate investor and venture capitalist preceding her political career.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
stratclub
Topic Author
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:12 am

cledaybuck wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Tugger wrote:
If equally applied with sufficient notice of the requirement, I can see it being acceptable. And if it is illegal to demand IRS records then just make it that a full financial accounting audit is required (and I think it ought to be paid/reimbursed for by the state), perhaps for those that win the primary.

Tugg


I would support an independent organization auditing financial records of presidential candidates. Or even make it a requirement of the IRS to perform that function for all federal office holders and general election candidates. I mean congress requires cabinet nominees to submit their tax forms right? or maybe it's just a financial disclosure form similar to what senators/representatives submit?

What I don't support is releasing things for public consumption. For instance, what if you didn't want your competitor to know how much you're charging for building rents or this or that. Protecting other innocent parties who make payments to you or you made to them. Maybe you don't want someone to know that you were willing to pay Contractor Y 100,000 dollars for a job and Contractor X only got 80,000 in a similar job. I'm not saying of course that you'd find these in his tax return - but of course the next logical step beyond requesting tax returns is all the supporting data that goes into generating it. And I guarantee you that releasing tax forms would not be enough. It's never enough. There will always be some demand to delve deeper. Just like with Mueller. It will never be enough.

If it is so important to keep that information private, don’t run for President of the United States. Nothing is being demanded of him that isn’t expected if every other Presidential candidate in my lifetime. And yes, the Mueller report should be made public too, with as few redactions as legally possible.

The thing is that there is no legal requirement to do so. If you don't like the fact that a candidate didn't release their tax returns, don't vote for them. In 2016 voters did not care about his tax returns and voted for him anyway. With how complicated as the tax codes are, you believe that we should pass legislation just so that the Democrats can go on yet another witch hunt? They don't really care about truth or what the law says, the Democrat's threats of illegal subpoenas after AG Bar's summary of findings was released proves that.

Trump did file a financial disclosure form as required by law, with the Federal Election Commission in July of 2015.
https://www.opensecrets.org/trump/financial-disclosures

Right now, we have a crisis at our southern border that is so bad, the state of Arizona has declared an emergency. Do the Democrats care even though immigration legislation to fix the immigration process could be easily enacted in a short time? No. Trying to launch yet another witch hunt against Trump is more important.
 
SteelChair
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Re: Presidential Tax Return legislation in Washington State

Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:35 am

dmg626 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
SteelChair wrote:
Its a distraction that only hurts them. Thats why he refuses to turn them over..


Oh that would be quite clever and shrewd. Something in me wishes it was this reason and this reason alone.


He knows how to play the left like a fiddle, it’s been working now for several years.


He's dumb like a fox.

He knows once the returns are public and the public response is nil, the dems just move on and demand something else. He also knows this is driving them crazy and making them look like idiots. So why not continue to stall, til next week, next month, as long as possible?

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