afcjets
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:35 am

alfa164 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
You quoted and then compared my statement to another fact, which is exactly what a straw man argument is. I never said it began with the Steele report, I said it was used to justify it. You and your ilk can continue to pretend not to know the difference.

What a surprise! Not quite right - again. I didn't compare your statement to "another fact"; I compared your statement to another of your statements, which clearly wasn't factual, and which contradicted each other. To wit:


afcjets wrote:
The same administration that issued the FISA warrant before the Stelle dossier ....


afcjets wrote:
The Stelle dossier was merely used to justify the warrant, an "insurance policy" of sorts. .




Wrong, you compared what I said to a Fox News report. Also, you left out what I said right before you quoted me. Even if what you said that I was responding to had been correct, it shows it would not have been a contradiction, but instead a pattern under the previous administration:


afcjets wrote:
The same administration that issued the FISA warrant before the Stelle dossier was the same administration that drafted Hillary's exoneration letter before investigating her, which is totally relevant in that it shows high stakes political investigations are premeditated with a desired outcome in mind.





alfa164 wrote:
That is not a "straw man argument"; that is an exposure of a lie.


Your second lie is this:


alfa164 wrote:
You do realize you are contradicting yourself here, don't you? The Court issued the warrant before there was even a whiff of knowledge about the Steele dossier; it could hardly be used to "justify the warrant".



“The (FISA) application cited claims from the (Steele) dossier that Mr. Page, while on a trip to Moscow in July 2016, had met with two senior Russian representatives and discussed matters like lifting sanctions imposed on Russia for its intervention in Ukraine and a purported file of compromising information about Mr. Trump that the Russian government had. (Mr. Page has denied those allegations, although he later contradicted his claims that he had not met any Russian government officials on that trip.)

Republicans portrayed the Steele dossier — which also contained salacious claims about Mr. Trump apparently not included in the wiretap application — as dubious, and blasted the F.B.I. for using material from it while not telling the court that the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign had funded the research.

But Democrats noted that the (FISA) application also contained evidence against Mr. Page unrelated to the dossier...”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/21/us/p ... -fisa.html
 
alfa164
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:34 am

afcjets wrote:
“The (FISA) application cited claims from the (Steele) dossier that Mr. Page, while on a trip to Moscow in July 2016, had met with two senior Russian representatives and discussed matters like lifting sanctions imposed on Russia for its intervention in Ukraine and a purported file of compromising information about Mr. Trump that the Russian government had. (Mr. Page has denied those allegations, although he later contradicted his claims that he had not met any Russian government officials on that trip.) Republicans portrayed the Steele dossier — which also contained salacious claims about Mr. Trump apparently not included in the wiretap application — as dubious, and blasted the F.B.I. for using material from it while not telling the court that the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign had funded the research. But Democrats noted that the (FISA) application also contained evidence against Mr. Page unrelated to the dossier...”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/21/us/p ... -fisa.html


Whatever your sources, you continue to spread claims that simply aren't true. The FISA warrant was issued well before any Steele document was even in process - and if you would read a little more, and prevaricate a little less, you might regain a semblance of credibility. Just a semblance...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-cour ... nt-n893666
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trpmb6
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:39 pm

alfa164 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
“The (FISA) application cited claims from the (Steele) dossier that Mr. Page, while on a trip to Moscow in July 2016, had met with two senior Russian representatives and discussed matters like lifting sanctions imposed on Russia for its intervention in Ukraine and a purported file of compromising information about Mr. Trump that the Russian government had. (Mr. Page has denied those allegations, although he later contradicted his claims that he had not met any Russian government officials on that trip.) Republicans portrayed the Steele dossier — which also contained salacious claims about Mr. Trump apparently not included in the wiretap application — as dubious, and blasted the F.B.I. for using material from it while not telling the court that the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign had funded the research. But Democrats noted that the (FISA) application also contained evidence against Mr. Page unrelated to the dossier...”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/21/us/p ... -fisa.html


Whatever your sources, you continue to spread claims that simply aren't true. The FISA warrant was issued well before any Steele document was even in process - and if you would read a little more, and prevaricate a little less, you might regain a semblance of credibility. Just a semblance...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-cour ... nt-n893666


If I recall correctly you are both technically correct. The Steele Dosier, to my knowledge, was used later on as a supporting document to continue the wiretaps.
 
afcjets
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:52 pm

alfa164 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
“The (FISA) application cited claims from the (Steele) dossier that Mr. Page, while on a trip to Moscow in July 2016, had met with two senior Russian representatives and discussed matters like lifting sanctions imposed on Russia for its intervention in Ukraine and a purported file of compromising information about Mr. Trump that the Russian government had. (Mr. Page has denied those allegations, although he later contradicted his claims that he had not met any Russian government officials on that trip.) Republicans portrayed the Steele dossier — which also contained salacious claims about Mr. Trump apparently not included in the wiretap application — as dubious, and blasted the F.B.I. for using material from it while not telling the court that the Democratic National Committee and the Hillary Clinton campaign had funded the research. But Democrats noted that the (FISA) application also contained evidence against Mr. Page unrelated to the dossier...”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/21/us/p ... -fisa.html


Whatever your sources, you continue to spread claims that simply aren't true. The FISA warrant was issued well before any Steele document was even in process - and if you would read a little more, and prevaricate a little less, you might regain a semblance of credibility. Just a semblance...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-cour ... nt-n893666


Perhaps you should take your own advice, your source exposes your misinformation you keep defending in the very first sentence, actually the headline:

“Mueller's Russia probe wasn't launched because of Carter Page, and the dossier compiled by an ex-spy was only part of the evidence cited to get a warrant.”

Your original post:

The Court issued the warrant before there was even a whiff of knowledge about the Steele dossier; it could hardly be used to “justify the warrant.””

And in this post:

The FISA warrant was issued well before any Steele document was even in process
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:16 pm

President Obama ordered the Russia Probe - The buck stops there.

https://youtu.be/rQkvPt3u6xg
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seb146
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:45 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
President Obama ordered the Russia Probe - The buck stops there.

https://youtu.be/rQkvPt3u6xg


But not in the way you and ONN think it does. Obama ordered the initial investigation. Mueller just happened to find corruption and ties between team MAGA and Russia along the way.

ONN is as partisan as they come. While they are technically correct that Obama wanted to know how and why Russia was interfering with our elections, Obama did not do it out of spite.

It is not like another high profile investigation that resulted in a stained blue dress and hundreds of dead ends.....
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alfa164
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Tue Apr 02, 2019 10:59 pm

afcjets wrote:
Your original post:
The Court issued the warrant before there was even a whiff of knowledge about the Steele dossier; it could hardly be used to “justify the warrant.””
And in this post:
The FISA warrant was issued well before any Steele document was even in process


And both those posts were truel

trpmb6 wrote:
If I recall correctly you are both technically correct. The Steele Dosier, to my knowledge, was used later on as a supporting document to continue the wiretaps.


:checkmark: We found a man who can read! And who is willing to read, rather than parrot the talking points of some Faux News hack. The facts are:

"If the FBI had already convinced a federal court to issue a warrant to surveil Carter Page under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) in 2013 or 2014, it could add an important data point for discussions of the propriety of the FISA surveillance of Page approved in Oct. 2016 and renewed through to mid-2017. Most news stories and commentaries, however, do not even refer to the possible existence of a 2013 or 2014 FISA warrant. What has been overlooked are the reports, especially by CNN and others, that state such a warrant existed."


https://www.justsecurity.org/59837/repo ... 2013-2014/

That article goes on to cite multiple sources. In coming days, I am sure much will become clearer; the Mueller Report undoubtedly contains a more complete timeline for the investigation - but the evidence of Russian influence, which brought the warrant, came long before 2016. That makes it long before Steele's report entered the picture.
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afcjets
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:34 pm

alfa164 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Your original post:
The Court issued the warrant before there was even a whiff of knowledge about the Steele dossier; it could hardly be used to “justify the warrant.””
And in this post:
The FISA warrant was issued well before any Steele document was even in process


And both those posts were truel

trpmb6 wrote:
If I recall correctly you are both technically correct. The Steele Dosier, to my knowledge, was used later on as a supporting document to continue the wiretaps.


:checkmark: We found a man who can read! And who is willing to read, rather than parrot the talking points of some Faux News hack. The facts are:

"If the FBI had already convinced a federal court to issue a warrant to surveil Carter Page under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) in 2013 or 2014, it could add an important data point for discussions of the propriety of the FISA surveillance of Page approved in Oct. 2016 and renewed through to mid-2017. Most news stories and commentaries, however, do not even refer to the possible existence of a 2013 or 2014 FISA warrant. What has been overlooked are the reports, especially by CNN and others, that state such a warrant existed."


https://www.justsecurity.org/59837/repo ... -2013-2014

That article goes on to cite multiple sources. In coming days, I am sure much will become clearer; the Mueller Report undoubtedly contains a more complete timeline for the investigation - but the evidence of Russian influence, which brought the warrant, came long before 2016. That makes it long before Steele's report entered the picture.


From your own source:

“On Feb. 4 2018, Jake Tapper on CNN’s State of the Union stated, “In 2013, 2014, Carter Page was spied on by the FBI in a different FISA warrant.””

If you wanted to refer to an earlier warrant before Trump was even running for President (or in your view, colluding with Russians to steal an election from Hillary) and claim the warrant was issued “before there was even a whiff of knowledge about the Steele dossier” you should not have posted a link that refers to the 2016 warrant and acknowledges was obtained in part due to the Steele report. Even your own language indicates you were specifically referring to the 2016 one the first time, because you state there was no knowledge of the Steele report, which indicates it already exists, and of course it didn’t in 2013.
 
seb146
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Wed Apr 03, 2019 12:39 am

afcjets wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
afcjets wrote:
Your original post:
The Court issued the warrant before there was even a whiff of knowledge about the Steele dossier; it could hardly be used to “justify the warrant.””
And in this post:
The FISA warrant was issued well before any Steele document was even in process


And both those posts were truel

trpmb6 wrote:
If I recall correctly you are both technically correct. The Steele Dosier, to my knowledge, was used later on as a supporting document to continue the wiretaps.


:checkmark: We found a man who can read! And who is willing to read, rather than parrot the talking points of some Faux News hack. The facts are:

"If the FBI had already convinced a federal court to issue a warrant to surveil Carter Page under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) in 2013 or 2014, it could add an important data point for discussions of the propriety of the FISA surveillance of Page approved in Oct. 2016 and renewed through to mid-2017. Most news stories and commentaries, however, do not even refer to the possible existence of a 2013 or 2014 FISA warrant. What has been overlooked are the reports, especially by CNN and others, that state such a warrant existed."


https://www.justsecurity.org/59837/repo ... -2013-2014

That article goes on to cite multiple sources. In coming days, I am sure much will become clearer; the Mueller Report undoubtedly contains a more complete timeline for the investigation - but the evidence of Russian influence, which brought the warrant, came long before 2016. That makes it long before Steele's report entered the picture.


From your own source:

“On Feb. 4 2018, Jake Tapper on CNN’s State of the Union stated, “In 2013, 2014, Carter Page was spied on by the FBI in a different FISA warrant.””

If you wanted to refer to an earlier warrant before Trump was even running for President (or in your view, colluding with Russians to steal an election from Hillary) and claim the warrant was issued “before there was even a whiff of knowledge about the Steele dossier” you should not have posted a link that refers to the 2016 warrant and acknowledges was obtained in part due to the Steele report. Even your own language indicates you were specifically referring to the 2016 one the first time, because you state there was no knowledge of the Steele report, which indicates it already exists, and of course it didn’t in 2013.


Forgive me for inserting myself into this back-and-forth but isn't there instances when FISA warrants can be issued retroactively? This rings a bell for me. Like two weeks for wire taps or something? I will have to look it up.

There are many things covered in FISA warrants. Citizenship and immunity and retroactive.
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1836Sam
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:42 am

It just seems to me like the crack reporting Fox News team, compared with the totally competent Trump administration, could’ve totally put this to bed over 3 years. Sadly, I guess they’re being totally owned by the marginally more competent Deep State that somehow managed to get Trump elected and can’t seem to get him impeached. I mean just how difficult is it in this day and age to fake a pee pee tape? If it were a great Deep State they could’ve put together at least 20 in 3 years. I just don’t get it. Well maybe Judge Jeanine will explain it to us one day soon because she does seem to be a real “thinker’s thinker.”
Last edited by 1836Sam on Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:43 am

Wow,
Now Trump doesn't want the report released. Guess someone clued him in that it isn't all roses for him in there.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:01 am

The redacted Mueller report is to be released Thursday, April 18th.

This is what I think will be the gist of what is in the redacted Mueller report:

Image
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Magog
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:44 pm

Press conference time. No collusion by Trump or his campaign staff. Mueller found absolutely nothing. Just as all sane people knew after Barr’s summary was released.
 
bennett123
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:00 pm

How much was redacted?.
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:03 pm

Magog wrote:
Press conference time. No collusion by Trump or his campaign staff. Mueller found absolutely nothing. Just as all sane people knew after Barr’s summary was released.

10 instances where the President of the United States may have obstructed justice. "Nothing"
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:04 pm

Can the report be downloaded anywhere? How much is blacked-out. Although I think if Trump went too far, we might see some portions of the report being informally released.
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cledaybuck
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:04 pm

bennett123 wrote:
How much was redacted?.

We don't know yet, it hasn't actually been released. They are having a press conference before the release to spin the narrative to what Trump wants.
 
MikeDrop
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:20 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
Magog wrote:
Press conference time. No collusion by Trump or his campaign staff. Mueller found absolutely nothing. Just as all sane people knew after Barr’s summary was released.

10 instances where the President of the United States may have obstructed justice. "Nothing"

It makes no difference now because these were determined not to be criminal acts. In other words, a big nothing burger.

We will see when the report is published, but Barr also said that the redactions were based on specific legal and national security rules and that Trump and his lawyers had no input. Also, Trump declined to invoke executive privilege, which was his in right.

Anyway, a big nothing burger. Hopefully the dems will grasp at the obstruction of justice straws all the way through the 2020 election.

Mike Drop
 
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casinterest
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:38 pm

MikeDrop wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
Magog wrote:
Press conference time. No collusion by Trump or his campaign staff. Mueller found absolutely nothing. Just as all sane people knew after Barr’s summary was released.

10 instances where the President of the United States may have obstructed justice. "Nothing"

It makes no difference now because these were determined not to be criminal acts. In other words, a big nothing burger.

We will see when the report is published, but Barr also said that the redactions were based on specific legal and national security rules and that Trump and his lawyers had no input. Also, Trump declined to invoke executive privilege, which was his in right.

Anyway, a big nothing burger. Hopefully the dems will grasp at the obstruction of justice straws all the way through the 2020 election.

Mike Drop


So let's see so far......
1. Russia did interfere with the US elections. Trump took Putin's word that Russia didn't. Is Trump a Russian Pansy or what?
2. 10 different obstruction incidents had to be investigated. HAD TO BE INVESTIGATED.
,,,, Let's see what other popcorn incidents come up.
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seb146
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:45 pm

MikeDrop wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
Magog wrote:
Press conference time. No collusion by Trump or his campaign staff. Mueller found absolutely nothing. Just as all sane people knew after Barr’s summary was released.

10 instances where the President of the United States may have obstructed justice. "Nothing"

It makes no difference now because these were determined not to be criminal acts. In other words, a big nothing burger.

We will see when the report is published, but Barr also said that the redactions were based on specific legal and national security rules and that Trump and his lawyers had no input. Also, Trump declined to invoke executive privilege, which was his in right.

Anyway, a big nothing burger. Hopefully the dems will grasp at the obstruction of justice straws all the way through the 2020 election.

Mike Drop


How many years have we been hearing you guys scream "BUT HILLARY!!!!" or "BUT BILL!!!!" when either Clinton came up in conversation? Now you understand how desperate you all have sounded over the past many years. Difference being, there is actual evidence that team MAGA worked with Russia. That individuals in team MAGA have actually been indicted based on one investigation. Not a series of investigations trying to catch someone doing something illegal.

Maybe the meetings were simply to get loans from Russians because no Western bank in their right mind would loan to the occupant of the White House? Maybe there was an actual tit-for-tat? Unfortunately, thanks to lap dog Bill Barr, we will not know. And the right will still sound desperate.
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mham001
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:41 pm

Direct from the report...."Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in the election interference activities,"

Of course, the CNN headline only says "Trump officials "expected" benefits"....
 
winginit
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:43 pm

This document is gold. Page 290:

When Sessions told the president that a Special Counsel had been appointed, the President slumped back in his chair and said, “Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I’m fucked.”
 
mham001
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:44 pm

casinterest wrote:
So let's see so far......
1. Russia did interfere with the US elections. Trump took Putin's word that Russia didn't. Is Trump a Russian Pansy or what?
2. 10 different obstruction incidents had to be investigated. HAD TO BE INVESTIGATED.
,,,, Let's see what other popcorn incidents come up.


If there was no crime, no justice to be had in the first place, can it be obstruction?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:44 pm

mham001 wrote:
Direct from the report...."Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that [i]the campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in the election interference activities,"[/i]

Of course, the CNN headline only says "Trump officials "expected" benefits"....


And they are wrong how?
Remember this was the same campaign that asked for the Russians... A foreign country, to hack Hillary's emails. They expected results and they got them.
This is also the same administration that denied that the Russians interfered in the election.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
mham001
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:47 pm

winginit wrote:
This document is gold. Page 290:

When Sessions told the president that a Special Counsel had been appointed, the President slumped back in his chair and said, “Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I’m fucked.”


And then, at the end of it all.... YOU GOT NOTHING!

casinterest wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Direct from the report...."Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that [i]the campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in the election interference activities,"[/i]

Of course, the CNN headline only says "Trump officials "expected" benefits"....


And they are wrong how?
Remember this was the same campaign that asked for the Russians... A foreign country, to hack Hillary's emails. They expected results and they got them.
This is also the same administration that denied that the Russians interfered in the election.


Because.... "the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in the election interference activities"
 
winginit
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 3:54 pm

mham001 wrote:
And then, at the end of it all....


It's so cute watching the Trumpies come to defend their overlord.

Apart from the revelation that Mueller has handed off FIFTY cases to other jurisdictions, he's said outright in even clearer terms that there is evidence in TEN different circumstances for Obstruction of Justice. Let's just look at the conclusion shall we?

“We did not draw ultimate conclusions about the President’s conduct. The evidence we obtained about the President’s actions and intent present difficult issues that would need to be resolved if we were making a traditional prosecutorial judgement. At the same time, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the President clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state.”

Equally hilarious that Trump told his White House lawyer outright to fire Robert Mueller, and McGahn flat out ignored Trump time and time again, blatantly refusing direct orders from the President of the United States because he knew his boss was so stupid that he was going to land himself in prison.
 
marcelh
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:01 pm

Funny to see how US politics are creating a soon to be former worldpower........
 
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casinterest
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:09 pm

mham001 wrote:
winginit wrote:
This document is gold. Page 290:

When Sessions told the president that a Special Counsel had been appointed, the President slumped back in his chair and said, “Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I’m fucked.”


And then, at the end of it all.... YOU GOT NOTHING!

casinterest wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Direct from the report...."Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that [i]the campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in the election interference activities,"[/i]

Of course, the CNN headline only says "Trump officials "expected" benefits"....


And they are wrong how?
Remember this was the same campaign that asked for the Russians... A foreign country, to hack Hillary's emails. They expected results and they got them.
This is also the same administration that denied that the Russians interfered in the election.


Because.... "the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in the election interference activities"



"
Summer 2016 ..... On June 9, 2016, for example. a Russian Lawyer met with Senior Campaign officials Donald Trump Jr. , Jared Kushner, and campaign chairman Paul Manafort to deliver what the email proposing the meeting had described as "official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary". The materials were offered to Trump Jr. as "part of Russia and it's government's support for Mr.Trump." The written communications setting up the meeting shows that the Campaign anticipated receiving information from Russia that could assist candidate Trump's electoral prospects, but the Russian lawyer's presentation did not provide such information.

Page 6


Days after the June 9 meeting ( on June 14) the DNC was hacked.

"Trump’s staff didn’t carry out his orders
"The President’s efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests."

page 158 of the report


How is possible that Trump Jr, Kushner and Manaforte attended a meeting they knew was supported by the Russian Government?
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
winginit
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:11 pm

It gets even better on Page 300:

After the President directed McGahn to call Rosenstein to have the Special Counsel removed, McGahn called his lawyer, drove to the White House, packed up his office, prepared to submit a resignation letter with his Chief of Staff, and told Preibus that the President had asked him to 'do crazy shit'.

Beautiful.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:20 pm

mham001 wrote:
Because.... "the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in the election interference activities"

Not finding a link is not the same as ruling it out.

We haven't found planets that harbor life, but that's different than saying that no planet (other than Earth) can harbor life.

The outcome is similar: no crimes were found so the party in question remains innocent, but that doesn't mean the further evidence can't be uncovered (you can't do that if evidence irrefutably shows that you had nothing to do with it).
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
mham001
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:28 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
mham001 wrote:
Because.... "the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in the election interference activities"

Not finding a link is not the same as ruling it out.

We haven't found planets that harbor life, but that's different than saying that no planet (other than Earth) can harbor life.

The outcome is similar: no crimes were found so the party in question remains innocent, but that doesn't mean the further evidence can't be uncovered (you can't do that if evidence irrefutably shows that you had nothing to do with it).


Unfortunately for Trump haters, we have this notion of "innocent until proven guilty".

At the end of the day and two years... you got nothing!
 
winginit
Posts: 2504
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:31 pm

Page 12 may well hint at some interesting things to come:

In the course of conducting this investigation, the Office periodically identified evidence of potential criminal activity that was outside the scope of the Special Counsel's authority established by the Acting Attorney General. After consultation with the Office of the Deputy Attorney General, the Office referred that evidence to appropriate law enforcement authorities, principally other components of the Department of Justice and to the FBI.

mham001 wrote:
Unfortunately for Trump haters, we have this notion of "innocent until proven guilty".

At the end of the day and two years... you got nothing!


Nothing? Oh please, apart from fifty lawsuits that have been handed off that could no doubt used to drag Trump through the mud until he's battered and bloody just in time for the election, we got concrete evidence that the President of the United States is literally too stupid not to land himself in prison, and those around him had to defy direct orders to keep him out of an orange jumpsuit.

Yesterday I would have told you with a straight face that if I had to bet my life on it, I'd bet that Donald Trump would be re-elected in 2020. Today I firmly believe he stands no chance.
 
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einsteinboricua
Posts: 7217
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:43 pm

mham001 wrote:
Unfortunately for Trump haters, we have this notion of "innocent until proven guilty".

At the end of the day and two years... you got nothing!

Funny. That's the same thing Hillary has gotten after well over 8 Benghazi investigations and 1 email investigation, yet that hasn't stopped conservatives from beating a dead horse and claiming that she's guilty and to "Lock her up".

Or does this notion only apply to Republicans?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
wingman
Posts: 3681
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:49 pm

mham001 wrote:
At the end of the day and two years... you got nothing!


Except for all those indictments, guilty pleas and jail sentences. Christ, how could a person be so pathetic and revisionist when last jail sentence is barely three months old and already the whole investigation was "nothing"? Just like those famous Nothing Burgers all you Trump boot-lickers have been screaming about since the day he admitted to grabbing women's pussies and begged Russia and Wikileaks to help him win the White House. I weep for your lack of comprehension.
 
MikeDrop
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:50 pm

seb146 wrote:
MikeDrop wrote:
cledaybuck wrote:
10 instances where the President of the United States may have obstructed justice. "Nothing"

It makes no difference now because these were determined not to be criminal acts. In other words, a big nothing burger.

We will see when the report is published, but Barr also said that the redactions were based on specific legal and national security rules and that Trump and his lawyers had no input. Also, Trump declined to invoke executive privilege, which was his in right.

Anyway, a big nothing burger. Hopefully the dems will grasp at the obstruction of justice straws all the way through the 2020 election.

Mike Drop


How many years have we been hearing you guys scream "BUT HILLARY!!!!" or "BUT BILL!!!!" when either Clinton came up in conversation? Now you understand how desperate you all have sounded over the past many years. Difference being, there is actual evidence that team MAGA worked with Russia. That individuals in team MAGA have actually been indicted based on one investigation. Not a series of investigations trying to catch someone doing something illegal.

Maybe the meetings were simply to get loans from Russians because no Western bank in their right mind would loan to the occupant of the White House? Maybe there was an actual tit-for-tat? Unfortunately, thanks to lap dog Bill Barr, we will not know. And the right will still sound desperate.


Seems to me that you are the only one saying "but Hillary" here. I cant recall the last time I invoked the "but Hillary" defense.



Mike Drop
 
Magog
Posts: 783
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:07 pm

Fact. No collusion. So embarrassing for us liberals. Some of us have realized this for quite some time. But in bizzaro leftist land somehow we are the crazy ones.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 8363
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:10 pm

No collusion is like saying your wife didn't cheat on you because you told her to go screw with someone else.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
Magog
Posts: 783
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:54 am

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:29 pm

I'm reading the Report just like everyone. But we already know with absolute certainty that Bill Barr did not misrepresent Mueller's finding on collusion, which is what has driven weeks of conspiracy theorizing since the Report was submitted.

Barr also essentially exonerated WikiLeaks of any criminal wrongdoing in the publication of the DNC/Podesta emails. When it rains, it pours!
 
winginit
Posts: 2504
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:34 pm

Magog wrote:
I'm reading the Report just like everyone. But we already know with absolute certainty that Bill Barr did not misrepresent Mueller's finding on collusion, which is what has driven weeks of conspiracy theorizing since the Report was submitted.


Let's not pretend that potential obstruction of justice hasn't been the more prominent narrative, and there's a whole lot of evidence in this report that points towards obstruction of justice. It's also crystal clear that Mueller intended for congress to make the obstruction of justice judgement - not Barr.

As a bonus, on Page 239, it says that Michael Cohen received a text from a Russian businessman that said "'Stopped flow of tapes from Russia but not sure if there's anything else. Just so you know .... '". I'm not saying there's anything there, but how very juicy indeed.

Additionally, the release of the report puts to bed all the nonsense around the fact that this investigation never should have taken place. The amount of concrete evidence that shows there was a seemingly endless stream of Russian contact that went unreported to the FBI is staggering.

Obstruction or not, this report makes Donald Trump and his administration look very, very incompetent.
 
Magog
Posts: 783
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:40 pm

winginit wrote:
Magog wrote:
I'm reading the Report just like everyone. But we already know with absolute certainty that Bill Barr did not misrepresent Mueller's finding on collusion, which is what has driven weeks of conspiracy theorizing since the Report was submitted.


Let's not pretend that potential obstruction of justice hasn't been the more prominent narrative,.

This is the type of revisionist history that would have surprised even Stalin.
 
winginit
Posts: 2504
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:23 pm

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:44 pm

Magog wrote:
winginit wrote:
Magog wrote:
I'm reading the Report just like everyone. But we already know with absolute certainty that Bill Barr did not misrepresent Mueller's finding on collusion, which is what has driven weeks of conspiracy theorizing since the Report was submitted.


Let's not pretend that potential obstruction of justice hasn't been the more prominent narrative,.

This is the type of revisionist history that would have surprised even Stalin.


Virtually every single headline was some form or fashion of this one from NYT:

Mueller Finds No Trump-Russia Conspiracy, but Stops Short of Exonerating President on Obstruction

Yes, there was a pool of folks who latched onto debunking the first half, but the overwhelming narrative leading up to today was whether or not Donald Trump obstructed justice.

Yet another absolute gem from this report is that it shows the blatant lies that Sarah Sanders told on Trump's behalf. While lying to the press is not a crime, Sanders should step down immediately.

Image
 
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keesje
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Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:14 pm

In 2035 you will read a book about the Trump presidency. And be embarrased about the revelations you are denying / dismissing now.
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
MikeDrop
Posts: 438
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:28 pm

keesje wrote:
In 2035 you will read a book about the Trump presidency. And be amazed about the revelation you are denying / missing now.

Interested in what you mean by this. Can you expand?

Mike Drop
 
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trpmb6
Posts: 2513
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:45 pm

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:32 pm

well my personal prediction that both sides wouldn't budge on what they perceive here is coming true. You're going to read what you want to read out of this.
 
bgm
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:47 pm

Magog wrote:
Fact. No collusion. So embarrassing for us liberals. Some of us have realized this for quite some time. But in bizzaro leftist land somehow we are the crazy ones.


:rotfl:

What a piss-poor job of trolling, yet again. You're about as liberal as Aaron Schock is heterosexual. :duck:
Sweet Home Talibama. Home of Y’all Qaeda
 
bgm
Posts: 1975
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:49 pm

MikeDrop wrote:
keesje wrote:
In 2035 you will read a book about the Trump presidency. And be amazed about the revelation you are denying / missing now.

Interested in what you mean by this. Can you expand?

Mike Drop


That you have a complete twat of a President.
Sweet Home Talibama. Home of Y’all Qaeda
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14048
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:10 pm

Yes, to many, the Mueller Investigation has failed to 'get' Trump as many deeply wanted and a disappointment, but for sure it has tainted him and done a lot of good for our country.

A number of people faced and several other still face (like Roger Stone) felony trials and convictions with some getting significant jail time.

It did bring out that there was a serious issue with Russians attempting to influence the election of Trump over HRC. Hopefully it will lead to reforms to reduce the risk of such influences in the future.

As to Obstruction of Justice, several people wouldn't, like McGann, carry out Trump's orders to fire certain persons so Trump was saved on that issue despite his desires to do so.

Mueller also had legal and practical limitations in directly going after Trump and others. Much of the alleged evidence was not 'clean' or verifiable, was circumstantial, hearsay and not of the beyond Constitutional standard needed even to indite.

Mueller pretty much leaves to the Congress to follow up to consider Impeachment as the only way to discipline Trump and to various courts to sort out and go after Trump and others for their possible crimes.
 
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casinterest
Posts: 8363
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:24 pm

At the end of the day, perhaps we should be asking the Russians for the data.

In the report: Page 10

Further, the Office learned that some of the individuals we interviewed or whose conduct we investigated — including some associated with the Trump Campaign — deleted relevant communications or communicated during the relevant period using applications that feature encryption or that do not provide for long-term retention of data or communications records. In such cases, the Office was not able to corroborate witness statements through comparison to contemporaneous communications or fully question witnesses about statements that appeared inconsistent with other known facts.

https://www.npr.org/2019/04/18/70896502 ... ler-report
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
CaliAtenza
Posts: 1680
Joined: Mon Dec 25, 2006 1:43 pm

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:37 pm

I wish all the Trumpsters on here would get lost, seriously. WTF are you people doing on A.Net anyways?
 
stratclub
Posts: 1223
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:38 pm

Re: Mueller's Investigation/Report Complete!

Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:45 pm

afcjets wrote:
alfa164 wrote:

Let's not rewrite history here:
1) The FISA warrant was issued before there was any knowledge of the Steele dossier; and
2) There has been no evidence that the dossier has been discredited. Perhaps you have something the FBI doesn't?

:roll:


The same administration that issued the FISA warrant before the Stelle dossier was the same administration that drafted Hillary's exoneration letter before investigating her, which is totally relevant in that it shows high stakes political investigations are premeditated with a desired outcome in mind. The Stelle dossier was merely used to justify the warrant, an "insurance policy" of sorts.

The SC has officially disprooven the Steele report.

It is great to hear the voice of reason. It just floors me that HRC and Obama's DOJ and FBI committed crimes of treason against a Presidential candidate and later a POTUS and to many, that is irrelevant while many push the agenda that even though Trump committed no crime he MUST have done something illegal and the Mueller report MUST be released un-redacted to congress so that it can be leaked for political gain potentially destroying forever the lives of people that are in the report that were not culpable of any crime.

I remember watching the open congressional hearings of the non investigation of the HRC E-mail scandal and it was clearly evident that intentional crimes were committed and an actual investigation for treason aimed at Hillery was indicated. For me anyway, the E-Mail scandal was certainly a tipping point in understanding how corrupt our government had become.

The swamp is being drained and many Democrats are really pissed and out for blood by any despicable means possible. I'm pretty sure that the next election is going to get a lot of the worthless deadwood out of congress. It doesn't hurt to hope..............
Last edited by stratclub on Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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