I think every year I've opened a thread on cars, and in the end I don't follow through. But I just wanna poll folks here:

when buying a car, do you buy new or used? What are the pros of buying used?

Yes, I'm back on the market and I think, to avoid all the hassle of price negotiation, I'll go to CarMax and get another vehicle there.

I'm hesitant because there's just no replacement to buying a new car, but on the other hand, if it helps me to save a few bucks, what's the issue in the end?

I have generally bought new, but my first two cars were used.
In a used car you are not getting the latest in technology( this could be a plus, but that is for another thread).
In a used car, you can check if it is running, and have a mechanic give it the once over to give you an idea of how long the brakes and tires will last. Hopefully the owner will be able to tell you when the last time all the fluids, plugs and timing belt were last changed. It comes cheaper, but not without wear and tear that you may not be able to easily see over a short test drive.
Warranties may have expired, interior engine issues may have accumulated.


New cars lose thousands the second you sign on the dotted line and accept the car past the refusal date. However you are getting a car with a Full warranty, the latest in technology, and something brand new that you now own. If you care for it, you can keep it a long time. I have never kept a new car less than 10 years, and i only sold the one at 10 years due to inheriting another car.
The price is steep, but negotiate and don't be afraid to walk out of the dealership if you aren't getting exactly what you want at what you believe is a fair price. They will call you back. Don't let them up sell you on features you could care less about. If that is the only car they have, then try to price out the feature you don't want, or tell them you will go elsewhere.


Some folks I know love to lease. I can't do it. I put far too many miles on my car in a year. If you don't drive often or far, and usually both, you can look into it. However you can never quite predict how much will go into keeping it in good shape for the end of lease.

Buying new cars off the lot is actually a financially unwise move.

We all love new cars, but it's a ruinous personal finance action. Certified pre-owned is really the way to go. Or leasing, but I'd run the numbers on that first.

Why not look into certified pre-owned? Typically low miles with a warranty and usually full service records as they're often previously leased cars.

Also, the initial depreciation has already occurred.

einsteinboricua wrote:

to avoid all the hassle of price negotiation, I'll go to CarMax and get another vehicle there.

If you buy new, I strongly suggest negotiating via email instead of in person. It's just a way better experience.

I prefer buying new, but we bought our last car used. Here, in my opinion, are the advantages to each.
Used: Price - This was basically the only advantage to used to me, but it is a big one. You can pay a lot less for your car or car more car for the same amount of money. We could not have afforded our current car new.
New: Selection - You can find certain type of new car at any one of many dealers. Finding a used car with the features and mileage you want can be much trickier, and you can't always just go to another dealer if you can't negotiate a good deal.
- Low/no maintenance period - You should have a time of low/no maintenance on a new car after you first buy it. Much of that time gets eaten up on a used car
- No previous owners - No one owned this car before you. You know how it has been taken care of its whole life and don't have to wonder how the person who had it on lease before treated it knowing that they were going to turn it in at the end of the lease.
- Trade in - This might be a state by state thing, but here in Ohio, the trade in value of your car gets deducted from the sales price of a new car to calculate sales tax but not a used car. This cost us over $1,000 on our last car purchase.

slider wrote:

Buying new cars off the lot is actually a financially unwise move.

We all love new cars, but it's a ruinous personal finance action. Certified pre-owned is really the way to go. Or leasing, but I'd run the numbers on that first.

Buying used can be cheaper but that doesn't make buying new a ruinous decision!

If you want savings, don’t buy from CarMax. Their margin per unit is the highest in the industry. People who shop there pay a hefty premium to avoid negotiation.

With the right incentives, buying new can be fairly competitive with buying used. It’s not as clear cut as it used to be. You can get some screaming deals right now on leftover 2018 vehicles, for example.

The one thing you have to do is your homework. Information is power.

bagoldex wrote:

Why not look into certified pre-owned?

Those would be directly with the dealer, right? There are no at-large dealers with CPO vehicles of all brands?

One thing a used car will never ever give you...

New Car smell.... mmmm... new car.... ahhhhhhhhhhh......

Otherwise, for it depends on how long i intend to keep the car... if it's a stop gap for 2-3 years ill go used. Second car for shopping, used... main car for commuting for the next 5+ years= new

Buy a new car. You know your total cost of ownership and monthly outflow. Instead of spending $2000/year in repairs on average, pay that roughly $200 toward finance payment.

The so-called certified pre-owned just get a visual inspection at best. You are at the mercy of previous owners driving and maintenance habits. Transmissions, emission/exhaust systems, and turbochargers(if equipped) are a major source of heartburn. You have to pretty much throw away any sealed transmission. Some CVTs are failing prematurely. $3000 to $6000.

einsteinboricua wrote:

bagoldex wrote:

Why not look into certified pre-owned?

Those would be directly with the dealer, right? There are no at-large dealers with CPO vehicles of all brands?

Yes, you'd need to go to a manufacturer-specific dealer.

einsteinboricua wrote:

when buying a car, do you buy new or used? What are the pros of buying used?

Whatever you do, do not buy a used car. Period.

Around here, every time the we get Summer, all the young dudes suddenly think they are rally drivers and thrash the nuts off the engine and suspension.

And as soon as Winter comes with some decent snow, all the dudes think they are rally drivers again, and practice full power skid turns on slick tires.

Basically everything gets wrecked.

p.s. I'm in Helsinki, Finland.
Where are you exactly...…?.

Related question, how much money would you put into a new car, compared to your salary ?

My first 3 vehicles were used. The first one I knew the owner and we did a self finance agreement. I never had an issue with that car. My second car was my Camaro, I was in college. Loved that car. Changing the spark plugs and ignition coils on a Camaro is a PITA. Also, had to replace the clutch. The previous owner was hard on it. Third vehicle was a truck as I realized it was more practical for me in a lot of instances. I sold my Camaro and after purchasing my truck (F150) I actually walked away with more cash on hand. (sold the camaro for the same amount I bought it for 2 years earlier too.)

The F-150 was great for about 6 years. Then my wife decided to go out of town one weekend when I had the itch for a new vehicle. She came home and I had bought a previous model year (though new) Ram 1500. Purchasing the previous model year (even though it physically had no differences than the current model year - except a couple of interior features) saved me about 10k on the MSRP. I realize this is something they can do with trucks because of their already ridiculous mark up. But buying a previous model year, new, is the best bang for your buck in my opinion.

Wife recently purchased a new tahoe, they don't have the same surplus as there exists on pick-up trucks. she basically had to pay list price for it. And ouch. But it's a great vehicle and will last us many many years.

So, TLDR; I'm a fan of both used and new, both have their benefits, both have their negatives. If you can get a great deal on a used car that you know the owner of and maintenance records on, you can't beat that. Otherwise, I'll take a new previous year model.

I usually buy slightly used cars. Last car I bought had 16.000km on the clock, but still felt pretty much brand new and I saved a substantial amount compared to buying it from new.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

p.s. I'm in Helsinki, Finland.
Where are you exactly...…?.

Seattle area.

Aesma wrote:

Related question, how much money would you put into a new car, compared to your salary ?

No more than $400/month. When I bought my first car, rates were low and, because I put no money down, it was about $278/month. After paying off my student loans, I put that money into the car loan. I ended up paying it off last year (6 year loan, paid off in 4 years). Rates have gone up since so I'll take that into account. Would much rather sell my current car as opposed to trade it in since it's money I can have on hand in case of an emergency.

The reason I'm not willing to go all in with a new car is obviously the price, but also having a mortgage and a lease to take care of, you want to be mindful of how much money you have tied up. The house is now rented so, for at least a year, the mortgage will take care of itself.

There's also the question of how many features and improvements they've made from the previous models. If a 2017 model (with low mileage) has the same features as a new 2018 model, wouldn't it make sense to go with the 2017 model and save some bucks?

The Nissan Rogue and Ford Fusion hybrid have 0% offers this month.

dtw2hyd wrote:

Buy a new car. You know your total cost of ownership and monthly outflow. Instead of spending $2000/year in repairs on average, pay that roughly $200 toward finance payment.

Jeezly-crow, what kind of rolling pieces of crap are you buying that need an average of $2000 a year in repairs?!? Until this past summer, I'd never spent $2000 to buy a whole car itself, let alone spent that much in a year for repairs.

dtw2hyd wrote:

The so-called certified pre-owned just get a visual inspection at best. You are at the mercy of previous owners driving and maintenance habits. Transmissions, emission/exhaust systems, and turbochargers (if equipped) are a major source of heartburn. You have to pretty much throw away any sealed transmission. Some CVTs are failing prematurely. $3000 to $6000.

You're not wrong about those items, turbochargers and CVTs in particular.

einsteinboricua wrote:

There's also the question of how many features and improvements they've made from the previous models. If a 2017 model (with low mileage) has the same features as a new 2018 model, wouldn't it make sense to go with the 2017 model and save some bucks?

Yes, absolutely. As others have said, one just coming off lease is usually a good bet because it'll for sure have all maintenance records. Why spend the extra money to buy a brand-new 2019 if the previous few years of that model were exactly the same?

drew777 wrote:

slider wrote:

Buying new cars off the lot is actually a financially unwise move.

We all love new cars, but it's a ruinous personal finance action. Certified pre-owned is really the way to go. Or leasing, but I'd run the numbers on that first.

Buying used can be cheaper but that doesn't make buying new a ruinous decision!

If I sold you something for $50k and, literally, after you take delivery of said product, it loses value, that's dumb. And if you're financing that purchase, it is economically unwise.

That said, I totally want to be a new car! But I try to use better judgment in not doing so.

https://jalopnik.com/heres-four-reasons ... 1638384343

Jalopnik, which is one of my favorite gearhead sites, did a great piece on this.

With used cars it depends on the history. Here you can have cars driven by workers of the car company, they get special deals but have to take care of the car - so those cars are usually a good buy. On the other hand leased cars that were leased to companies for a year are often treated badly, as the driver knows he gets a new car each year.

Here in Germany new car also means that they make the car exactly as you want it. You get a lot of choice on how to configure your car. From colour over seats to configuration of equipment or if you want manual or automatic transmission.

slider wrote:

drew777 wrote:

slider wrote:

Buying new cars off the lot is actually a financially unwise move.

We all love new cars, but it's a ruinous personal finance action. Certified pre-owned is really the way to go. Or leasing, but I'd run the numbers on that first.

Buying used can be cheaper but that doesn't make buying new a ruinous decision!

If I sold you something for $50k and, literally, after you take delivery of said product, it loses value, that's dumb. And if you're financing that purchase, it is economically unwise.

That said, I totally want to be a new car! But I try to use better judgment in not doing so.

https://jalopnik.com/heres-four-reasons ... 1638384343

Jalopnik, which is one of my favorite gearhead sites, did a great piece on this.

I actually agree with article, but I don't have the time or patience to turn over 10 cars in 2 years.
Cars with a few exceptions are never investment moves. They are transportation from A to B. If people want a new car, then they can pay for a new car.

The below article also shows the danger of all the financing.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... inquencies

The number of loans at least 90 days late exceeded 7 million at the end of last year, the highest total in the two decades the Federal Reserve Bank of New York has kept track. Expressed as a percentage of total debt, the delinquency rate is the highest since 2012, as overall borrowing has also increased.

Might be quite a few more of those Certified PreOwned coming to market in the near future.

northstardc4m wrote:

One thing a used car will never ever give you...

New Car smell.... mmmm... new car.... ahhhhhhhhhhh......

PFFFFFFFFFFffffffffffttt:
https://www.google.com/search?q=new+car+spray

The good thing about a new car is that, if you drive 12-15,000 miles per year or less, you can lease it instead of buying it. For me that is an advantage because, if you treat your car right, you get to effectively lock in the depreciation. With the rapid pace of change in technology in cars, who knows how much your car will be worth three years from now (or if the car will live up to your expectations, or if your life circumstances change and you now need a different car, or no car at all, etc.). By leasing it you are effectively transferring that risk over to the finance company, which at least for me was the prime reason I decided to opt for a lease even though I could have just bought the car instead.

Also, as others have said, gotta love that new car smell!

einsteinboricua wrote:

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

Where are you exactly...…?.

Seattle area.

In that case, kindly disregard everything I said.
The used car market is very much dependent on where you are. You need at the very least a US perspective.

Having said that, if Seattle's climate is cold & wet, you might note that lovers of classic cars in Northern Europe will often go to California or South Africa in order to source a good used model that isn't a bucket of rust. If you fancy a trip down south, you could get yourself a great deal.
But you may have problems if you need to get anything done under warranty....

There's also the question of how many features and improvements they've made from the previous models. If a 2017 model (with low mileage) has the same features as a new 2018 model, wouldn't it make sense to go with the 2017 model and save some bucks?

Absolutely!

In reality cars are facelifted every 8-10 years or so, with only trivial improvements from year to year. So, whilst it is human nature to want a nice shiny new car aka this year's model, I would just laugh in the face of any salesman who tried to argue that this year's model was substantially better than last years. The simple response is to argue that I would be a fool to buy this years model, because when next years model is launched, this year's model will suddenly become a POS.

FWIW there is one country which does things differently; no prizes for guessing it's the UK, where vehicle age is commonly referenced by the vehicle license plates.

e.g. In this case "51" refers to 2001, however the vehicle itself could have left the factory in 2000, or in extreme cases earlier.

Of course, most of this is barely relevant to your problem in Seattle, except to demonstrate that a "2018 model" is simply another marketing exercise.
The British approach is no better; people will value a car based purely on the "51" license plate even though the car next to it could be identical.

It's a jungle out there. Good luck!

trpmb6 wrote:

I had bought a previous model year (though new) Ram 1500. Purchasing the previous model year (even though it physically had no differences than the current model year - except a couple of interior features) saved me about 10k on the MSRP. I realize this is something they can do with trucks because of their already ridiculous mark up. But buying a previous model year, new, is the best bang for your buck in my opinion.
.

My neighbor came home last month with a new Ram and claimed he got $20k off MSRP. Time of year is a huge factor.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

FWIW there is one country which does things differently; no prizes for guessing it's the UK, where vehicle age is commonly referenced by the vehicle license plates.

In the Netherlands the license plate also shows the registration year.

Of course the registration year is not necessarily the manufacture year. A 30 year old second-hand import would get 2019 plates.

Magog wrote:

The Nissan Rogue and Ford Fusion hybrid have 0% offers this month.

Nismo really has great deals on financing. My Parents just bought a Murano and already want to get rid of it and get a new one.

I am looking to buy a F150 soon. The preowned or Dealer demo is a good way to go.

My brother in law bought a 2012 Audi in the same year that I bought my new 2017 Renault. He's already had to spends thousands on repair cost, while I scoot along with 5 years free maintenance.

In fact he once told my mom that he wished he had bought my car! That sums up how I feel about buying new vs used.

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

My brother in law bought a 2012 Audi in the same year that I bought my new 2017 Renault. He's already had to spends thousands on repair cost, while I scoot along with 5 years free maintenance.

In fact he once told my mom that he wished he had bought my car! That sums up how I feel about buying new vs used.

As a student I bought "Rentner Autos".
usually unhip versions from some years ago endlessly stored in a heated garage.
Never used much beyond a Sunday ride. ~10years old, <20,000km for ~1000DM ( 1/8..1/16 of the original price tag. )
fuel up and change tires and brake pads on occasion, good for about 100,000km

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

My brother in law bought a 2012 Audi in the same year that I bought my new 2017 Renault. He's already had to spends thousands on repair cost, while I scoot along with 5 years free maintenance.

Pretty much common knowledge over here that you don't buy a German car out of warranty. I have felt your brother's pain there are good reasons why their values plummet. Today, a report was released comparing 'reliability' of 2016 models in the US market.

TheFlyingDisk wrote:

My brother in law bought a 2012 Audi in the same year that I bought my new 2017 Renault. He's already had to spends thousands on repair cost, while I scoot along with 5 years free maintenance.

In fact he once told my mom that he wished he had bought my car! That sums up how I feel about buying new vs used.

To be fair, your brother in law was asking, nay begging for it by buying a five year old Audi. Even if it had been well-maintained up to that point, that's about the time that the REALLY expensive bits will require service. While Audis certainly have their devotees and are possessed of numerous sterling qualities, long-term durability, long-term reliability, ease of service, and low cost of service are not, nor have they ever been, qualities for which Audis were known. Had your brother in law instead bought a five year old Honda or Toyota, the story would likely be very different.

To me, that's one of the benefits of buying a used car: After a couple of years, the secret gets out as to which models should be avoided because of inherent problems that crop up or unexpected high-dollar "Gotchas!" in the maintenance schedule. With a brand new car, especially if it's the first year of a new chassis or engine, you're rolling the dice as to whether that shiny new dream come true in the dealer's showroom will wind up being a devoted servant that will never let you down or a financial and logistical nightmare that you purposely leave the keys in in the desperate hope that someone will steal it AND that they can keep it running long enough to get away with it.

TSS wrote:

To be fair, your brother in law was asking, nay begging for it by buying a five year old Audi. Even if it had been well-maintained up to that point, that's about the time that the REALLY expensive bits will require service. While Audis certainly have their devotees and are possessed of numerous sterling qualities, long-term durability, long-term reliability, ease of service, and low cost of service are not, nor have they ever been, qualities for which Audis were known. Had your brother in law instead bought a five year old Honda or Toyota, the story would likely be very different.

I've owned a Honda before - and reliability-wise, it's a POS! In fact my friend owned a used 2010 Civic which he bought when it was 3 years old, and he too had to spend a lot of money replacing stuff like wheel bearings and engine mounts often.

Knowing how my countrymen treat their cars, I honestly wouldn't touch even a used Japanese car.

slider wrote:

If I sold you something for $50k and, literally, after you take delivery of said product, it loses value, that's dumb. And if you're financing that purchase, it is economically unwise.

Almost every thing we buy loses value after delivery. Very few things appreciate in value after purchase.

My principle is if I can afford it, if the purchase isn't wasteful, and if it brings me joy, I go for it. Fretting about profits too much is pretty useless.

Pyrex wrote:

The good thing about a new car is that, if you drive 12-15,000 miles per year or less, you can lease it instead of buying it. For me that is an advantage because, if you treat your car right, you get to effectively lock in the depreciation. With the rapid pace of change in technology in cars, who knows how much your car will be worth three years from now (or if the car will live up to your expectations, or if your life circumstances change and you now need a different car, or no car at all, etc.). By leasing it you are effectively transferring that risk over to the finance company, which at least for me was the prime reason I decided to opt for a lease even though I could have just bought the car instead.

Also, as others have said, gotta love that new car smell!

I agree. Plus, if you want to take a long drive for vacation.... Rent the vehicle.

TSS wrote:

To be fair, your brother in law was asking, nay begging for it by buying a five year old Audi. .

Maybe you got lucky. I bought only one used car when I came first to the USA, it was reliable and I sold it back.

But most people end up spending money on repairs, they may not keep track of total repairs, but I am sure there is a new decent compact car they can afford with that money.

Anyone with a good credit history should never buy a used car. You don't want the surprise factor and making judgement calls on large repairs. Totally unnecessary.

I buy or lease new. I get a nice warranty and trade it off before the warranty expires.

dtw2hyd wrote:

TSS wrote:

Anyone with a good credit history should never buy a used car. You don't want the surprise factor and making judgement calls on large repairs. Totally unnecessary.

Obviously everyone wants to have a nice car but financing a depreciating asset is pure stupidity, regardless of whether it’s purchased new or used. If you need to finance a car, you probably shouldn’t be buying one.

bagoldex wrote:

dtw2hyd wrote:

Anyone with a good credit history should never buy a used car. You don't want the surprise factor and making judgement calls on large repairs. Totally unnecessary.

^ Fixed that for ya.

bagoldex wrote:

Obviously everyone wants to have a nice car but financing a depreciating asset is pure stupidity, regardless of whether it’s purchased new or used. If you need to finance a car, you probably shouldn’t be buying one.

Most people don't have $20,000+ just laying around to spend on a car, thus financing is necessary. On the other hand, financing the entire amount is a bad idea because if you do that, the value of the car will likely be less than what is owed on it until a year or two before it's paid off due to depreciation.

Personally, I try to buy cars in the $500-or-less category. Cheap insurance, cheap tag, if it runs for a month I've broken even with most people's single car payments, if it runs for two months I'm ahead by half, and if it gets scratched or dented it's no big deal because you'd usually be hard-pressed to find the new scratch or dent amongst the pre-existing ones. My record is a '78 Mercury Monarch that I bought in 1989 for $75 and drove for three years which only needed a radiator and a power steering pump outside of regular maintenance items during the time I owned it.

einsteinboricua wrote:

Aesma wrote:

Related question, how much money would you put into a new car, compared to your salary ?

No more than $400/month.

Not a crazy amount, but since I don't know your salary... That would be 350€, still too much for many French people.

I've never bought a car and I'm 35. For personal use I still drive the hand-me-down 2002 Citroën C3 from my parents, and for work I drive a company car, that I got new.

I'm also looking at buying one, however I won't finance or lease as I want to buy a house soon, and want to get the biggest mortgage possible (rates are ultra low in France at the moment).

The Citroën's core mechanicals run fine but there are many things wrong with it and I don't want to do it all.

The average new car buyer is 56 in France. My parents are 65 and 71 with good salaries/pensions and never bought a new car.

The appeal of a new car to me is technology, basically the one I'd take is the Tesla Model 3. And I'd probably be an early adopter of fully autonomous cars, even though I like to drive. Driving in traffic is not my passion.

Watch this, it may help you with your choices, personally I tend to buy 1-2 year old cars, though the last car I bought was new, but that was more of a midlife crisis/I work hard and every now and again I spoil myself purchase.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZqVKa6Fqd0&t=303s

bagoldex wrote:

Obviously everyone wants to have a nice car but financing a depreciating asset is pure stupidity, regardless of whether it’s purchased new or used. If you need to finance a car, you probably shouldn’t be buying one.

It’s not at all stupid for people who don’t have the funds to purchase outright, but need a car to hold down a job. It’s also worth it if the convenience is worth the price. GAP insurance can protect these people from being upside down.

And with a 0% offer, it’s stupid to pay too much up front.

Magog wrote:

bagoldex wrote:

Obviously everyone wants to have a nice car but financing a depreciating asset is pure stupidity, regardless of whether it’s purchased new or used. If you need to finance a car, you probably shouldn’t be buying one.

It’s not at all stupid for people who don’t have the funds to purchase outright, but need a car to hold down a job. It’s also worth it if the convenience is worth the price. GAP insurance can protect these people from being upside down.

And with a 0% offer, it’s stupid to pay too much up front.

Free money doesn’t exist. 0% loans are just a way to get people to buy more. They just bury the money some ware else.

mad99 wrote:

Magog wrote:

bagoldex wrote:

Obviously everyone wants to have a nice car but financing a depreciating asset is pure stupidity, regardless of whether it’s purchased new or used. If you need to finance a car, you probably shouldn’t be buying one.

It’s not at all stupid for people who don’t have the funds to purchase outright, but need a car to hold down a job. It’s also worth it if the convenience is worth the price. GAP insurance can protect these people from being upside down.

And with a 0% offer, it’s stupid to pay too much up front.

Free money doesn’t exist. 0% loans are just a way to get people to buy more. They just bury the money some ware else.

Right. And if they are burying it in a 0% offer you’d be stupid to pay too much up front.

Another scourge of the auto finance business, besides limited 0% loans, is the length of term.

These monstrously long 72 and 84 month (eighty four months!!) loans have become commonplace. It's creating a situation similar to the housing bubble from a few years back in the States.

The average used car loan is now nearly 63 months. More than a third of new car loans are for longer than 72 months (six years!).... in short, people are making payments on a NEW car for that long when the depreciated value is less than the residual balance of their note. Underwater. It's happening all over the place now.

Nobody should finance a car for that long. Buy what you can pay off in 36 months.

slider wrote:

Another scourge of the auto finance business, besides limited 0% loans, is the length of term.

These monstrously long 72 and 84 month (eighty four months!!) loans have become commonplace. It's creating a situation similar to the housing bubble from a few years back in the States.

The average used car loan is now nearly 63 months. More than a third of new car loans are for longer than 72 months (six years!).... in short, people are making payments on a NEW car for that long when the depreciated value is less than the residual balance of their note. Underwater. It's happening all over the place now.

You think 84 months is long? Try 108 months. I don't know about in the US, but here in Malaysia usually by year 3 of a loan the depreciation would have slowed down to the point that the value is often times at break even or slightly more than the residual balance. I've sold my 3 year old new car a couple of times before and at no time did I need to top up to pay off my loan.

You know how we cope with it? By not changing cars ever so often. I'm an outlier in that in the past 7 years I've changed cars 3 times, but most of the time people only change cars once every 5 years. Heck, I've owned more cars than my father ever did in his lifetime!

Magog wrote:

mad99 wrote:

Magog wrote:

It’s not at all stupid for people who don’t have the funds to purchase outright, but need a car to hold down a job. It’s also worth it if the convenience is worth the price. GAP insurance can protect these people from being upside down.

And with a 0% offer, it’s stupid to pay too much up front.

Free money doesn’t exist. 0% loans are just a way to get people to buy more. They just bury the money some ware else.

Right. And if they are burying it in a 0% offer you’d be stupid to pay too much up front.

Its 0% on a 20,000 car but if you pay cash you can buy it for 18,000. That’s the 0% part. Free loans do not exist unless its from your folks or Friends.

A lot of people focus on the monthly payment and not the total sum of what they will pay.

mad99 wrote:

Its 0% on a 20,000 car but if you pay cash you can buy it for 18,000. That’s the 0% part.

That used to be the case, but not always anymore.

Magog wrote:

mad99 wrote:

Its 0% on a 20,000 car but if you pay cash you can buy it for 18,000. That’s the 0% part.

That used to be the case, but not always anymore.

It has to be the case. Nobody will lend you money for free, try it yourself. Go to a bank, loans are one way they make money, and ask for an interest free loan and see how far you get. It’s just a way to get people to buy a car.

We live in a condo complex, mostly older people. The new technology of forward warning with automatic braking, lane departure, blind spot alerts (also protects backing out of a parking lot), and some steering assist, speed limit, pedestrian and bike recognition assist, advanced cruise control are a compelling reason to replace an otherwise very good older car. These features only became more common in 2017. Used cars of that date with all the safety features are only a few thousand cheaper than a new car. Most of us are persuaded we should have these features. I looked off and on for a year seeing if I could find a better buy. So ended up with a new RAV4, more car than we really need, but we like it.