speedbird52 wrote:

I feel like we are all glossing over the fact that someone raped a chicken and then sent videos of it over WORK EMAIL, to COWORKERS. Why is this not grounds for firing?

speedbird52 wrote:

I feel like we are all glossing over the fact that someone raped a chicken and then sent videos of it over WORK EMAIL, to COWORKERS. Why is this not grounds for firing?

KingOrGod wrote:

ltbewr wrote:

hypersensitivity

Bingo. What basically happened: I'm going to go with this because it's great, until it fits my agenda about playing the race card. And poof. Another snowflake born.

FYI, some of the biggest racists I know are not white people either. Some of them others are, but racism isn't only white people y'all know, right?

Aesma wrote:

speedbird52 wrote:

I feel like we are all glossing over the fact that someone raped a chicken and then sent videos of it over WORK EMAIL, to COWORKERS. Why is this not grounds for firing?

I'm hoping it's a photoshop rape.

ewt340 wrote:

KingOrGod wrote:

ltbewr wrote:

hypersensitivity

Bingo. What basically happened: I'm going to go with this because it's great, until it fits my agenda about playing the race card. And poof. Another snowflake born.

FYI, some of the biggest racists I know are not white people either. Some of them others are, but racism isn't only white people y'all know, right?

Yeah, White people can't be racist. This is just some Marxist Propaganda at best. Oh and the earth is flat + Vacination lead to homesuality and Autoimune disease that make Virgin women pregnant 2000 years ago that lead to people getting hang on cross or something. I don't know.

But seriously though. The only "White" people who said "not all white people are racist" always ended being a racist person.
Of course not all people are racist. That's just logical. The fact that some people have to pointed out that entire ethnic group is not racist is hella weird.

Back to the topic. The Racism AND Bestiality are double combo for termination. Like really? you want to argue with that?

speedbird52 wrote:

ewt340 wrote:

KingOrGod wrote:

Bingo. What basically happened: I'm going to go with this because it's great, until it fits my agenda about playing the race card. And poof. Another snowflake born.

FYI, some of the biggest racists I know are not white people either. Some of them others are, but racism isn't only white people y'all know, right?

Yeah, White people can't be racist. This is just some Marxist Propaganda at best. Oh and the earth is flat + Vacination lead to homesuality and Autoimune disease that make Virgin women pregnant 2000 years ago that lead to people getting hang on cross or something. I don't know.

But seriously though. The only "White" people who said "not all white people are racist" always ended being a racist person.
Of course not all people are racist. That's just logical. The fact that some people have to pointed out that entire ethnic group is not racist is hella weird.

Back to the topic. The Racism AND Bestiality are double combo for termination. Like really? you want to argue with that?

I cannot understand how not wanting to be called a n***** makes someone a snowflake. If I walked up to you, and said: "Hey, f*** you you f***** piece of s****, I f***** hate you, go die in a flaming hot pit of lava where you get raped in the rear end daily", would you be a snowflake for getting upset?
Look, I understand the sentiment that peoples personal lives should not be controlled by your employer. I have a cousin who got in trouble for very very light hearted banter with a friend because that "friend" reported him to their schools principle. But being repeatedly called a racial slur and being set a video of a chicken being raped is pretty good grounds for firing. Isn't having sex with chickens illegal???? Why are we all glossing over the chicken.

speedbird52 wrote:

I cannot understand how not wanting to be called a n***** makes someone a snowflake. If I walked up to you, and said: "Hey, f*** you you f***** piece of s****, I f***** hate you, go die in a flaming hot pit of lava where you get raped in the rear end daily", would you be a snowflake for getting upset?

speedbird52 wrote:

... and being set a video of a chicken being raped is pretty good grounds for firing. Isn't having sex with chickens illegal???? Why are we all glossing over the chicken.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

The first example may or may not be intended as an insult; it could be a friendly salute albeit using a word that is not PC.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

It's just a pity we cannot read any of the responses from Mr Patel to get a feel for the bigger picture.

I suspect that Manish Patel accepted this crude "bloke-speak" for as long as it benefitted him to be part of their select group.

ewt340 wrote:

Of course not all people are racist. That's just logical. The fact that some people have to pointed out that entire ethnic group is not racist is hella weird.

mham001 wrote:

ewt340 wrote:

Of course not all people are racist. That's just logical. The fact that some people have to pointed out that entire ethnic group is not racist is hella weird.

Actually, most EVERYBODY is racist deep down in some way, it just is not allowed to be openly discussed in our society. Nor did the poster quoted dismiss white racism.

When I hear Indians cry RACISM! (or any Asian) I have to laugh, they come from the most openly racist societies on earth. You as an outsider will not hear it. I have.

mham001 wrote:

ewt340 wrote:

Of course not all people are racist. That's just logical. The fact that some people have to pointed out that entire ethnic group is not racist is hella weird.

Actually, most EVERYBODY is racist deep down in some way, it just is not allowed to be openly discussed in our society. Nor did the poster quoted dismiss white racism.

When I hear Indians cry RACISM! (or any Asian) I have to laugh, they come from the most openly racist societies on earth. You as an outsider will not hear it. I have.

caliboy93 wrote:

No place for racism especially in the airline industry, where the mission is to connect the world and bring people closer together through air travel. Especially not one with the global reach of BA.

sierrakilo44 wrote:

caliboy93 wrote:

No place for racism especially in the airline industry, where the mission is to connect the world and bring people closer together through air travel. Especially not one with the global reach of BA.

That should be the mission of an airline, but it's been a little different behind the flight deck door, or at least it was up until a decade or two ago. Flight deck crew in certain airlines were historically overwhelmingly male, white, conservative, ex military, privately educated and from upper middle class backgrounds. And they tend to only socialise within those groups, leading to some very narrow world views. It is changing, but there are some old school attitudes that exist under the surface, especially in a legacy carrier like BA.

It's still frustrating speaking to members of the general public, or young people who are interested in Aviation but feel they cannot pursue this career because they don't come from where the historical stereotypes say a pilot should come from, or because they don't fit in those groups or feel as if they will be demeaned if they do make it as a pilot. A pilot for one of the world's most respected airlines being repeatedly called the "n word" doesn't help.

ewt340 wrote:

Anyway, at least sharing chicken porn is illegal in the UK.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

Historically it has been Trade Unions who advanced the cause of oppressed minorities, and fought racism. In this case, they are strangely silent.
Perhaps they know something we don't?

yodobashi wrote:

Page 2 of this thread and nobody has yet pointed out that this article is published by the Daily Mail, therefore readers should exercise caution and take everything with a pinch of salt. The Daily Mail was/is a major contributing party to the mess the U.K. is currently enduring apropos 'Brexit'!

Lilienthal wrote:

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

The first example may or may not be intended as an insult; it could be a friendly salute albeit using a word that is not PC.

While the comparison by Speedbird was indeed ridiculously over the top, the issue at hand is clearly not a "friendly salute". Please read the article in the opening post for a variety of examples from this case.

In one, sent in November 2012 as union reps organised a Christmas pub lunch, Captain O’Neal asked: ‘What food you want n****?’

In another, from September 2012, he asked Captain Patel: ‘U on skype n****?’

Lilienthal wrote:

[ And besides... middle aged BA pilots calling each other n***** like 14 year old school boys? come oooooon....

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

It's just a pity we cannot read any of the responses from Mr Patel to get a feel for the bigger picture.
I suspect that Manish Patel accepted this crude "bloke-speak" for as long as it benefitted him to be part of their select group.

Lilienthal wrote:

What is far more likely is that Mr. Patel did endure that kind of behavior because he would have been ostracized back when he was still on the job. It was obviously bad enough that he quite that quite lucrative position at 46 years old...

Lilienthal wrote:

And let's just be clear about stuffing animals. Sticking your d*** in a chicken is weird, no matter if it has a heartbeat or not. Maybe one of the pilots can use your "but it's not illegal if it's dead" argument in court. I'd actually pay money to watch that.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

I did read the article, and here are some of those instances;

In one, sent in November 2012 as union reps organised a Christmas pub lunch, Captain O’Neal asked: ‘What food you want n****?’

So, is that designed primarily as an insult?
Or is he asking a friend what food he would prefer at an event where a group of friends will be sitting down together and sharing banter whilst off-duty?

In another, from September 2012, he asked Captain Patel: ‘U on skype n****?’

So, is that an insult?
Or is he asking if his friend is online so they can have an amicable chat?

See, I did read the original article. I seems as if I need to ask that you do the same.

He also alleges that he endured racist comments, including being called ‘P*** lad’ and ‘chai wallah’, as well as inappropriate jokes that he also worked as a taxi driver or ran a corner shop.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

I should know; I've been there myself. [...]
Like Mr Patel, I was also forced to take part in ludicrous language and strange behavior in order to satisfy my union colleagues. [...]
I should be suing the Union for the emotional trauma they caused back then.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

If he was worried about being ostracized, he could have anonymously tipped off BALPA. Instead, he took a more public approach, because primarily what he wants is $$$compensation. Justice is an afterthought.

Pudelhund wrote:

CaliguyNYC wrote:

Pudelhund wrote:

The Indian pilot:

“It is understood that he admits sending offensive emails himself, but says he did so only to fit in. Last night Balpa said his claim is ‘strenuously denied and will be robustly defended’. “

I think he is just copping out. This is clearly just locker room talk and suddenly he is playing the race card.

You think he is playing the race card? There is never a time to use the N word or ever say racist comments to a fellow employee (or anyone). To say the minority pilot laughed back so he liked it or didn’t mind before is blaming the victim. In the end it shows a work culture that is racially charged. I would hope people would just say it is wrong, punish the pilots and let’s move on.

You can play this social justice lip service bit all day, but men everywhere in every workplace talk like this with each other, even more so about women. The only mistake the pilots made was putting it in writing in company emails. I also find it rich that an Indian of all people is now deeply concerned about racism. Indians are far more casual and nonchalant about racial prejudice than English or American workplaces for that matter. He is just playing the cards he will know will get him ahead.

speedbird52 wrote:

No it is allowed to be discussed. That is something I was taught pretty early on in high school and college. However, I was taught that we should all be aware of our inherit racist bias, and work against it. You seem to be arguing that it is okay to be racist.

gunnerman wrote:

another captain who is also a magistrate admitted sending a pornographic image of a man having sex with a chicken to five other union reps.

mham001 wrote:

speedbird52 wrote:

No it is allowed to be discussed. That is something I was taught pretty early on in high school and college. However, I was taught that we should all be aware of our inherit racist bias, and work against it. You seem to be arguing that it is okay to be racist.

I said no such thing, I just made the statement that ALL people have some racist feelings, whether they want to admit it publicly or not.

And no, it is not generally allowed to be discussed by whites in the US, anything and everything they say will be turned around and they will be shouted at and labelled. Words and feelings will be inserted into their mouths, just as you have done here, and the discussion will end with that first scream of RACIST! It is all too common, it is routine right here in this forum. I could give you my experiences growing up in a poor black neighborhood or living in areas 5% white and 70% immigrant but If I discuss that frankly, liberals here have conniptions. How can a white boy say that, he's RACIST!

Well, I am admitting I can have some negative thoughts about certain people, not necessarily the color of their skin, but their culture. If I say Mexican/Hispanic immigrants do not stress education, I would be considered RACIST! But they don't. This can be easily seen in the test scores, graduation rates, etc. and I have seen it up close and personal, where schools 5 miles away with strong immigrant Asian populations kick everybodies butt and the Mexican-dominated schools by 3-400%. I really do believe that there are superior cultural attributes and they are associated by race, whether anybody wants to admit it or not. So in a way, I believe there are superior races, except I don't believe my own is the superior. I am also in favor of our immigration policies reflecting that.

I can write that here without interruption but if I were to say that in public, which is backed up with overwhelming data, I would be pilloried and shut down. and you know it.

aviationaware wrote:

gunnerman wrote:

another captain who is also a magistrate admitted sending a pornographic image of a man having sex with a chicken to five other union reps.

Why would anyone do that? How did he even find that picture? What orifice in a chicken is large enough to have sex with? So many questions.

Lilienthal wrote:

And... just a small side note... you conveniently left out other parts of the article, since they don't quite fit your point of view. Like:

He also alleges that he endured racist comments, including being called ‘P*** lad’ and ‘chai wallah’, as well as inappropriate jokes that he also worked as a taxi driver or ran a corner shop.

Nothing in that article indicates that they were actual friends. You just assume that because it fits your argument. It's not completely impossible, but extremely unlikely given the way all this is playing out, especially the immediate suspension of five senior pilots by BA. You're clinging to the unlikely and the illogical here.

In his case the colleagues crossed the border from banter to bullying and it's his right to take action against that. It's not the employee's job to endure the bullying, it's in the employers responsibility to prevent it.

An anonymous tip to BALPA could have solved this problem? Very funny...

Assuming that Mr. Patel just wants a payday is a classic way of discrediting people like him. If that's what it takes to expose the racists and bullies, so be it.

mham001 wrote:

speedbird52 wrote:

No it is allowed to be discussed. That is something I was taught pretty early on in high school and college. However, I was taught that we should all be aware of our inherit racist bias, and work against it. You seem to be arguing that it is okay to be racist.

I said no such thing, I just made the statement that ALL people have some racist feelings, whether they want to admit it publicly or not.

And no, it is not generally allowed to be discussed by whites in the US, anything and everything they say will be turned around and they will be shouted at and labelled. Words and feelings will be inserted into their mouths, just as you have done here, and the discussion will end with that first scream of RACIST! It is all too common, it is routine right here in this forum. I could give you my experiences growing up in a poor black neighborhood or living in areas 5% white and 70% immigrant but If I discuss that frankly, liberals here have conniptions. How can a white boy say that, he's RACIST!

Well, I am admitting I can have some negative thoughts about certain people, not necessarily the color of their skin, but their culture. If I say Mexican/Hispanic immigrants do not stress education, I would be considered RACIST! But they don't. This can be easily seen in the test scores, graduation rates, etc. and I have seen it up close and personal, where schools 5 miles away with strong immigrant Asian populations kick everybodies butt and the Mexican-dominated schools by 3-400%. I really do believe that there are superior cultural attributes and they are associated by race, whether anybody wants to admit it or not. So in a way, I believe there are superior races, except I don't believe my own is the superior. I am also in favor of our immigration policies reflecting that.

I can write that here without interruption but if I were to say that in public, which is backed up with overwhelming data, I would be pilloried and shut down. and you know it.

Uhmm, they didn't call you racist for being white. They called you racist for actually being and believed in racist ideology.....

gunnerman wrote:

aviationaware wrote:

gunnerman wrote:

another captain who is also a magistrate admitted sending a pornographic image of a man having sex with a chicken to five other union reps.

Why would anyone do that? How did he even find that picture? What orifice in a chicken is large enough to have sex with? So many questions.

In the UK the ownership, sale and distribution of zoophilic pornography as well as zoosexual activity are criminal offences. You'd think that a magistrate would never be involved in anything like this. And if he were prosecuted and found guilty, the sentence could result in the pilot having his airside access revoked (so won't be able to fly) and he could also be removed as a magistrate.

When presented with competing hypotheses to solve a problem, one should select the solution with the fewest assumptions

ewt340 wrote:

mham001 wrote:

speedbird52 wrote:

No it is allowed to be discussed. That is something I was taught pretty early on in high school and college. However, I was taught that we should all be aware of our inherit racist bias, and work against it. You seem to be arguing that it is okay to be racist.

I said no such thing, I just made the statement that ALL people have some racist feelings, whether they want to admit it publicly or not.

And no, it is not generally allowed to be discussed by whites in the US, anything and everything they say will be turned around and they will be shouted at and labelled. Words and feelings will be inserted into their mouths, just as you have done here, and the discussion will end with that first scream of RACIST! It is all too common, it is routine right here in this forum. I could give you my experiences growing up in a poor black neighborhood or living in areas 5% white and 70% immigrant but If I discuss that frankly, liberals here have conniptions. How can a white boy say that, he's RACIST!

Well, I am admitting I can have some negative thoughts about certain people, not necessarily the color of their skin, but their culture. If I say Mexican/Hispanic immigrants do not stress education, I would be considered RACIST! But they don't. This can be easily seen in the test scores, graduation rates, etc. and I have seen it up close and personal, where schools 5 miles away with strong immigrant Asian populations kick everybodies butt and the Mexican-dominated schools by 3-400%. I really do believe that there are superior cultural attributes and they are associated by race, whether anybody wants to admit it or not. So in a way, I believe there are superior races, except I don't believe my own is the superior. I am also in favor of our immigration policies reflecting that.

I can write that here without interruption but if I were to say that in public, which is backed up with overwhelming data, I would be pilloried and shut down. and you know it.

Uhmm, they didn't call you racist for being white. They called you racist for actually being and believed in racist ideology.....

ewt340 wrote:

[

Uhmm, they didn't call you racist for being white. They called you racist for actually being and believed in racist ideology.....

speedbird52 wrote:

Most of the people around me are White and they have discussed this many times without any negative consequence. I live in one of the most liberal cities in the country. You seem to be talking from a place of anger instead of a place of logic. If feeling like a victim makes you happy, keep doing your thing buddy. Saying that certain cultures have attributes that are superior and that they HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH RACE, is objectively racist.

speedbird52 wrote:

Most of the people around me are White and they have discussed this many times without any negative consequence. I live in one of the most liberal cities in the country. You seem to be talking from a place of anger instead of a place of logic. If feeling like a victim makes you happy, keep doing your thing buddy. Saying that certain cultures have attributes that are superior and that they HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH RACE, is objectively racist.

mham001 wrote:

ewt340 wrote:

[

Uhmm, they didn't call you racist for being white. They called you racist for actually being and believed in racist ideology.....

But maybe you can explain why it is that certain cultures can kick butt and succeed while others, with the same limitations falter in US society? How exactly can you separate the FACT that an Asian immigrant is going to rise above EVERYBODY in education, income, crime rates, drugs/alcohol, etc, etc, etc while a Hispanic will be lucky to learn English and stay out of a gang? And then make the case that the culture is not related to race? You can't.

I see this everyday in my daughters schools. One school a proclaimed "Baccalaureate", 75% Hispanic, mixed immigrant/domestic, scores 2 while 5 miles away, schools 70% Asian, heavily fresh imports, mostly Vietnamese and Chinese score 9? You can see this further as the grades progress, the schools merge larger and the scores drop progressively with more Hispanics. It is all down to culture, parents of one group expect education and success. The other does not. So, which would you rather have? and how would you differentiate that besides race? I am not going include blacks, there are some special needs there but what is the excuse that one group of immigrants cannot succeed while others do?

speedbird52 wrote:

speedbird52 wrote:

Most of the people around me are White and they have discussed this many times without any negative consequence. I live in one of the most liberal cities in the country. You seem to be talking from a place of anger instead of a place of logic. If feeling like a victim makes you happy, keep doing your thing buddy. Saying that certain cultures have attributes that are superior and that they HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH RACE, is objectively racist.

Ha, that's pretty funny. So you live in a white world and there is no problem discussing race and so it is and so it shall be. Laughable. Have you ever listened to Asians discussing race among themselves (for example). No problem for them either, probably the most racist cultures on earth, they look down on everybody but you won't hear that in mixed company, you have to live with them to know that.

I am asking you the same question. How do you possibly differentiate the obvious differences in cultures without race?

As for my so-called racism, I am one who has done the single most important thing a man can do to overcome racism, I intermarried. What have you done?

speedbird52 wrote:

speedbird52 wrote:

Most of the people around me are White and they have discussed this many times without any negative consequence. I live in one of the most liberal cities in the country. You seem to be talking from a place of anger instead of a place of logic. If feeling like a victim makes you happy, keep doing your thing buddy. Saying that certain cultures have attributes that are superior and that they HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH RACE, is objectively racist.

Ha, that's pretty funny. So you live in a white world and there is no problem discussing race and so it is and so it shall be. Laughable. Have you ever listened to Asians discussing race among themselves (for example). No problem for them either, probably the most racist cultures on earth, they look down on everybody but you won't hear that in mixed company, you have to live with them to know that.

I am asking you the same question. How do you possibly differentiate the obvious differences in cultures without race?

As for my so-called racism, I am one who has done the single most important thing a man can do to overcome racism, I intermarried. What have you done?

mham001 wrote:

As for my so-called racism, I am one who has done the single most important thing a man can do to overcome racism, I intermarried. What have you done?

speedbird52 wrote:

speedbird52 wrote:

speedbird52 wrote:

Most of the people around me are White and they have discussed this many times without any negative consequence. I live in one of the most liberal cities in the country. You seem to be talking from a place of anger instead of a place of logic. If feeling like a victim makes you happy, keep doing your thing buddy. Saying that certain cultures have attributes that are superior and that they HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH RACE, is objectively racist.

Ha, that's pretty funny. So you live in a white world and there is no problem discussing race and so it is and so it shall be. Laughable. Have you ever listened to Asians discussing race among themselves (for example). No problem for them either, probably the most racist cultures on earth, they look down on everybody but you won't hear that in mixed company, you have to live with them to know that.

I am asking you the same question. How do you possibly differentiate the obvious differences in cultures without race?

As for my so-called racism, I am one who has done the single most important thing a man can do to overcome racism, I intermarried. What have you done?

Make myself conscious of my own racism and do my best to control it rather than try to justify it by saying other people are racist too?