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lebda
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:33 am

aviationaware wrote:
lebda wrote:
This is blown way out of proportion. This all appears speculative, and there's no chance in hell it's gonna stop air travel, or that it's even going to get up off the ground for that matter.


It's not about the realism of it. This is obviously going nowhere. This is about the fact that this actually resonates with a large portion of Democratic lawmakers. Really frightening.


It should be about the realism of it, though. Not about slippery slope crap. And frankly, this is the least frightening thing that resonates with Democratic lawmakers. People are getting their panties in a wad over absolutely nothing at all. They're not even proposing to end air travel.
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aviationaware
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 5:47 am

I love how Ocasio Cortez ran on making housing a human right and now she wants to rebuild or renovate every single building in the country, which would make housing utterly unaffordable for many people.

Totally nuts.
 
tommy1808
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:54 am

mfe777 wrote:
Your quoting an "assets document cloud" article, not anything released by a US legislator. Anybody could have written and released that article. Please look at the actual documents released which contain none of this outrageous material, and do not refer to air travel whatsoever.


And it would be Bogus too. Yeah, you can make air travel superfluous in certain sectors, generally where a train can do it in ~4 hours or less and the volume is high, but JFK-LAX ....... LAN-MSP .... ? Nada.

blockski wrote:
Outside of the US, there's a lot of efficiency to be gained from integrating surface transport (via HSR) and air travel - it's a place where we've only just begun to tap the potential, and even then only at a handful of airports.


via efficiency in general. Most people, not all, in the US pay less for a KWh than i do. I still just pay less than 30 EUR/Month ..... more money left for me to buy stuff instead of handing my money to the Russian Government to get something that is just burned.....
Going Green has generally generated a lot more Jobs that the classical energy business too.

best regards
Thomas
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:16 am

aviationaware wrote:
It's just not profitable when you include infrastructure costs.


And that's the problem.

I'm honestly amazed that America is able to land people on the Moon, given that the venture is obviously not a profitable one. I mean, how can you profit from a bunch of moon rocks?
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
tommy1808
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:33 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
It's just not profitable when you include infrastructure costs.


And that's the problem.

I'm honestly amazed that America is able to land people on the Moon, given that the venture is obviously not a profitable one. I mean, how can you profit from a bunch of moon rocks?


In high volume corridors having competitive rail infrastructure will usually not yield microeconomic returns, but macroeconomically most HSR infrastructure does. Governments ahould focus on that.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
aviationaware
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:03 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
It's just not profitable when you include infrastructure costs.


And that's the problem.

I'm honestly amazed that America is able to land people on the Moon, given that the venture is obviously not a profitable one. I mean, how can you profit from a bunch of moon rocks?


You're not in all seriousness comparing a one-off lighthouse venture that advanced technologies for civil application at breakneck speed to spending the same amount of money on yesterday's technology and more keeping it alive despite sky high deficits over decades?

tommy1808 wrote:

In high volume corridors having competitive rail infrastructure will usually not yield microeconomic returns, but macroeconomically most HSR infrastructure does. Governments ahould focus on that.

Best regards
Thomas


It's not the task of the government to do that.
 
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TheFlyingDisk
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:05 am

aviationaware wrote:
You're not in all seriousness comparing a one-off lighthouse venture that advanced technologies for civil application at breakneck speed to spending the same amount of money on yesterday's technology and more keeping it alive despite sky high deficits over decades?


Maybe you should refer to this:

tommy1808 wrote:
In high volume corridors having competitive rail infrastructure will usually not yield microeconomic returns, but macroeconomically most HSR infrastructure does. Governments ahould focus on that.


There's more than just microeconomic returns to consider. Also, what makes you think developing HSR can't drive technology forward the way a Moonshot can?
I FLY KLM+ALASKA+QATAR+MALAYSIA+AIRASIA+MALINDO
 
tommy1808
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:41 am

TheFlyingDisk wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
In high volume corridors having competitive rail infrastructure will usually not yield microeconomic returns, but macroeconomically most HSR infrastructure does. Governments ahould focus on that.


There's more than just microeconomic returns to consider. Also, what makes you think developing HSR can't drive technology forward the way a Moonshot can?


In aviationawares world it is the governments job to create profit centers for private investors, not to increase overall wealth for everyone governed.
He also apparently missed that many HSR markets have become mature by going for more reasonable speeds, like the ICE4 only going 280 instead of the 320, 300 in service speed, the ICE3 was made for. Or the simple fact that passenger jets have a hard time providing the capacity of a high speed train. One can easily transport two A380s worth of passengers, one high speed rail line easily replaces a dedicated runway on each end with narrow bodies going as close to each other as ATC can make them go between them.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
DrEsteban
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:48 am

jetero wrote:
DrEsteban wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Just try buying the land for HSR for those city-pairs! They can’t afford it now.

GF


They don't have to be able to afford it..... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

That's the "beauty" of socialism. Individual freedom is eliminated in order to serve the greater good.

Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money.


I don’t know why you associate “eminent domain” with socialism.

If you’re such a (presumably) supporter of the aviation industry, how in the hell do you think airports got built? Through the magic of private enterprise?


I associate socialism with eminent domain because socialists generally have very little respect for individual freedoms and private ownership. Not to say that eminent domain hasn’t been used by right leaning governments. It is just not as prominent.

And why couldn’t I be a aviation supporter without agreeing with the principle of eminent domain? Please do tell me.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:48 am

Super80Fan wrote:
I never liked him and voted against him in 2016, but I'll vote for Trump in 2020 if it means keeping air travel and keeping these [u][u]traitors[/u][/u] out of power.


:roll: As long as you keep your air travel, thus you chose for you, damn all mentality. Great, that's the way to move forward.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:57 am

DrEsteban wrote:
jetero wrote:
DrEsteban wrote:

They don't have to be able to afford it..... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

That's the "beauty" of socialism. Individual freedom is eliminated in order to serve the greater good.

Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money.


I don’t know why you associate “eminent domain” with socialism.

If you’re such a (presumably) supporter of the aviation industry, how in the hell do you think airports got built? Through the magic of private enterprise?


I associate socialism with eminent domain because socialists generally have very little respect for individual freedoms and private ownership. Not to say that eminent domain hasn’t been used by right leaning governments. It is just not as prominent.

And why couldn’t I be a aviation supporter without agreeing with the principle of eminent domain? Please do tell me.


You have to be careful using the term socialist. Socialism isn't communism and you describe communism more than socialism. I consider myself to be a social liberal, but I think individual freedom / privicy is very important and I am an entrepreneur, so I run my own business.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
DrEsteban
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:12 am

Dutchy wrote:
DrEsteban wrote:
jetero wrote:

I don’t know why you associate “eminent domain” with socialism.

If you’re such a (presumably) supporter of the aviation industry, how in the hell do you think airports got built? Through the magic of private enterprise?


I associate socialism with eminent domain because socialists generally have very little respect for individual freedoms and private ownership. Not to say that eminent domain hasn’t been used by right leaning governments. It is just not as prominent.

And why couldn’t I be a aviation supporter without agreeing with the principle of eminent domain? Please do tell me.


You have to be careful using the term socialist. Socialism isn't communism and you describe communism more than socialism. I consider myself to be a social liberal, but I think individual freedom / privicy is very important and I am an entrepreneur, so I run my own business.


I personally think there is a very thin line between socialism and communism. Karl Marx viewed socialism only as a transitional phase from capitalism to full communism. Fact is that BOTH socialism and communism value the group over the individual. This inevitably leads to an erosion of individual freedoms (by definition).

BTW, one can be a social liberal without being a socialist. Ie. libertarian.
 
DrEsteban
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:37 am

And yet you'd nodoubt be fine with Eminent Domain being used to build a border wall.


Hahahahaha... you’re funny..

So because I am critical of socialism, I must be a Trump supporter? You know nothing about me yet you think you do. It just shows how biased and judgemental you are.

It’s a shame we can’t have a grown up discussion about politics.... bowing out.
 
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DL717
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:01 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Well, I’m glad I’ve been to Hawaii. Won’t be any way to get there after this. Good luck Hawaii! There’s not enough demand to justify a choo choo tunnel to the mainland. Coast to coast in a day! What a country!!!

This chick is batshit crazy and a complete idiot. Someone take away the crayons. Well, maybe not. Let her and her pals keep going. It’ll make them unelectable. I’m sure Boeing and Airbus are shaking. :rotfl:


Maybe AOC 's green plan includes green passenger ships to go abroad. Solar panels to power. Or maybe Lighter than Air with solar panels??

AOC may be behind MOGA - Making Oceanliners Great Again.



Funny the party of “progress” wants to reverse the clock. To travel the way she wants to, people are going to need that extra vacation time or they’ll never get anywhere.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
zhiao
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:54 pm

[list=][/list]
Aesma wrote:
UpNAWAy wrote:
4 of the announced or expected Democrats for President are co-signers. Think about that for a moment.


Your president is Donald Trump. Think about that for a moment.


What has Macron done for France? Everybody there hates him.
 
jetero
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:24 pm

DrEsteban wrote:
jetero wrote:
DrEsteban wrote:

They don't have to be able to afford it..... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

That's the "beauty" of socialism. Individual freedom is eliminated in order to serve the greater good.

Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money.


I don’t know why you associate “eminent domain” with socialism.

If you’re such a (presumably) supporter of the aviation industry, how in the hell do you think airports got built? Through the magic of private enterprise?


I associate socialism with eminent domain because socialists generally have very little respect for individual freedoms and private ownership. Not to say that eminent domain hasn’t been used by right leaning governments. It is just not as prominent.

And why couldn’t I be a aviation supporter without agreeing with the principle of eminent domain? Please do tell me.


Doc, you can do whatever you like.

But I suggest you do an exhaustive study of the use of eminent domain in the U.S. instead of just going with how your gut feels. (Right good! Left communist!)
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:25 pm

There is no need to wait for the federal government to implement something like a "Green-New-Deal". Towns and cities can act regardless. The people and city council of NYC Queens Borough - who are undoubtedly 100% behind AOCs plans (they voted her into office after all) - can implement a "Green Tax" right now to pay for improved public transport, neighbor hood electrical car charging stations, energy efficient home insulation, bike share program, etc. On top of that they could ban gasoline cars from neighborhood roads and set a local minimum wage much higher than the federal limit.
And since this is NYC, money is not an issue. Pretty much every home owner is a millionaire. The wealth in New York is just sitting there, waiting to be taken and be used for the greater good. Slap on a 10, 20, 30% property tax and Green Bliss is within reach.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:43 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
Two US politicians have introduced a proposal/overview called the "Green New Deal". " ..

Totally overhaul transportation by massively expanding electric vehicle manufacturing,

IMO that is presented in a clumsy manner (much like the title of this thread), and in truth can be achieved quite painlessly and organically ….
- by encouraging private enterprise (that's Ford & GM & co) to focus more of their efforts towards electric vehicles
- by creating public demand for electric vehicles through a program of education and tax incentives, and even differential speed limits (e.g. 55 mph for electric vehicles vs 35mph for gas guzzlers)
- all of which will in turn will put pressure on Ford & GM & etc

build charging stations everywhere,
Again, clumsy presentation.
What most people will want/need, is charging points at their place of work, at the car park by the mall they regularly visit, the golf club, the train station, etc etc.
It can even become a USP for many businesses.
"Darling, where shall we go for dinner tonight? Shall we go to this restaurant here, or that other restaurant that offers free charging points in the car park..."

Pretty soon anybody who wants to stay in business will either have to have a product (or salary) that is 10% better than their competitors, or they will have to offer charging points.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:56 pm

build out highspeed rail at a scale where air travel stops becoming necessary,
Note the phrase "stops becoming necessary". This detail seems to have been (deliberately) overlooked by some contributors to this debate.
I would very much prefer it if there were real choices between HSR and air travel for most routes.
Most of the time, it's either air travel, or walk.
There would still be plenty of instances where air travel remained the only option, by virtue of distance (anything over 5-600 miles), high mountain ranges, or crossing difficult wet stuff (Great Lakes, Carribean island hopping, TPAC, etc, etc)

create affordable public transit available to all,
Ok, so that sounds dangerously like socialism, which according to some people is nearly communism, and we all know that is A BAD THING. :roll:

with goal to replace every combustion-engine vehicle
Every last one ? Good luck with that.

I'd happily settle for replacing just 80%, or in my personal case 100%. This is where I probably differ from some other contributors here, who would agree on the 80% figure, just as long as they could be part of the 20% who could keep their totally essential 8-liter pick up truck for totally essential journeys such as popping down to the liqor mart to pick up a six pack
It's their constitutional right ! And if it isn't, it bluddy well should be!!!
As for me - I guess being prepared to give up my own personal planet-killer makes me a "socialist". Or a communist :o
Meh.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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SheikhDjibouti
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:00 pm

And finally.....

Upgrade or replace every building in US for state-of-the-art energy efficiency
Sounds awesome.
In reality I've just "upgraded" my own building today; I fitted an energy efficient lightbulb to the downstairs washroom. :lol:

The point that this document is presumably trying to make (albeit clumsily) is that this initiative should be inclusive. There is a danger that a low polluter in rural Kansas will feel that it only applies to mega corporations over there in New York, or over there in California. This is for everyone.

There is a phrase from the original document that is conveniently overlooked in all this mayhem, probably because it puts everything into context all at once.
...to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions …….. as much as is technologically feasible,

If I was to quibble at all, I would amend this to
...as much as is technologically and financially feasible

That still leaves the door wide open, and able to swing in both directions, but adds a note of reasonableness to everything contained within the document.
Nothing to see here; move along please.
 
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casinterest
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:09 pm

I see a new thread got started for this issue.

I honestly do not know what the fuss is about. Is it a lot of pie in the sky dreaming? Yes.
However there are some very tangible goals to work towards.

Efficiency and advancement to improve lives for all is a valid goal.

This is a resolution and not a set of laws. It should be a blueprint of how we should look to making lives better, and not just for the wealthy.

Air Travel becoming Unnecessary would be great for a lot of destinations if HSR was in place, and autonomous electric cars ran everywhere. Will it happen now, probably not, but it is a goal to work towards.
Where ever you go, there you are.
 
tommy1808
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:47 pm

DrEsteban wrote:
jetero wrote:
DrEsteban wrote:

They don't have to be able to afford it..... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

That's the "beauty" of socialism. Individual freedom is eliminated in order to serve the greater good.

Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money.


I don’t know why you associate “eminent domain” with socialism.

If you’re such a (presumably) supporter of the aviation industry, how in the hell do you think airports got built? Through the magic of private enterprise?


I associate socialism with eminent domain because socialists generally have very little respect for individual freedoms and private ownership. Not to say that eminent domain hasn’t been used by right leaning governments. It is just not as prominent.


You got imperical data to support that claim?

In China "Nail house" is an actual term, and they are considered left, while the current right wing US government needs a lot of that for the wall.....

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
jetero
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:52 pm

casinterest wrote:
I honestly do not know what the fuss is about.


The usual.

Image

(Look at all those emissions from the burning rubber!)
 
seb146
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:00 pm

aviationaware wrote:
I love how Ocasio Cortez ran on making housing a human right and now she wants to rebuild or renovate every single building in the country, which would make housing utterly unaffordable for many people.

Totally nuts.


It is written into the Green New Deal: union jobs (which would include non-government health care and a non-government retirement) paying a wage that people can live on. As long as those manufacturing jobs and infrastructure jobs are kept 100% in the United States, what is the big deal?

Canadian company Pembena is trying to build a gas pipeline to the Oregon coast. They keep running B. S. commercials saying how many hundred (it was thousands) of jobs the pipeline would create. However, it would only create a few hundred temporary jobs and only for Canadians. After that, the people running the terminal would all be Canadian.

Let's use this as an example and create jobs here for our own infrastructure and supply chain. We have all the pieces.

I know this is more "party before country" bull from Republicans, so it will not happen until a Republican proposes the exact same bill.........
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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atcsundevil
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:23 pm

Please keep the thread on topic.

✈️ atcsundevil
 
aviationaware
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:38 pm

seb146 wrote:

It is written into the Green New Deal: union jobs (which would include non-government health care and a non-government retirement) paying a wage that people can live on.


I know that market mechanics are a bit difficult for you lefties, but just as a little hint, when prices for labor go up, demand goes down. Liveable wages for everyone are possible, but certainly not by government edict. Anyone who believes that is a total moron.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:53 pm

DrEsteban wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
DrEsteban wrote:

I associate socialism with eminent domain because socialists generally have very little respect for individual freedoms and private ownership. Not to say that eminent domain hasn’t been used by right leaning governments. It is just not as prominent.

And why couldn’t I be a aviation supporter without agreeing with the principle of eminent domain? Please do tell me.


You have to be careful using the term socialist. Socialism isn't communism and you describe communism more than socialism. I consider myself to be a social liberal, but I think individual freedom / privicy is very important and I am an entrepreneur, so I run my own business.


I personally think there is a very thin line between socialism and communism. Karl Marx viewed socialism only as a transitional phase from capitalism to full communism. Fact is that BOTH socialism and communism value the group over the individual. This inevitably leads to an erosion of individual freedoms (by definition).

BTW, one can be a social liberal without being a socialist. Ie. libertarian.


Well, at the core this thread is about balancing the rights of the individuals and what is best for the group. I, indeed, believe that we need a strong government in order to balance this out. I believe you have the right to do whatever you want unless it interferes with the rights of others.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
af773atmsp
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:34 pm

Sometimes you need to ask for overkill to get good enough or not quite good enough.

I like the high speed rail idea. Obviously it won't replace every domestic flight, but there are routes where upgraded rail infrastructure could mean less or no flights are needed.
DC10-40,MD88,A319,A320,A332,717,722,733,737,738,752,ATR-72,736,788
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:53 pm

af773atmsp wrote:
Sometimes you need to ask for overkill to get good enough or not quite good enough.

I like the high speed rail idea. Obviously it won't replace every domestic flight, but there are routes where upgraded rail infrastructure could mean less or no flights are needed.


The Art of the "Deal" -- The Green "New Deal"
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
NIKV69
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:08 pm

casinterest wrote:
Air Travel becoming Unnecessary would be great for a lot of destinations if HSR was in place, and autonomous electric cars ran everywhere. Will it happen now, probably not, but it is a goal to work towards.


Don't let Southwest airlines hear that. :duck:
"Some people did something" Rep Omar on 9/11
 
jetero
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:18 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Air Travel becoming Unnecessary would be great for a lot of destinations if HSR was in place, and autonomous electric cars ran everywhere. Will it happen now, probably not, but it is a goal to work towards.


Don't let Southwest airlines hear that. :duck:


Southwest is pretty useless for short-haul travel in its historical markets in Texas--the best advance fares in the original Wright Amendment markets seem to be $200 R/T, or a cool $1.00/mile.
 
NIKV69
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:39 pm

jetero wrote:
Southwest is pretty useless for short-haul travel in its historical markets in Texas--the best advance fares in the original Wright Amendment markets seem to be $200 R/T, or a cool $1.00/mile.



I was thinking LAS-LAX or LGA-CHS actually. Also where is the money going to come from to build this HSR in Texas? Hasn't the mess in CA been enough?
"Some people did something" Rep Omar on 9/11
 
jetero
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:52 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
jetero wrote:
Southwest is pretty useless for short-haul travel in its historical markets in Texas--the best advance fares in the original Wright Amendment markets seem to be $200 R/T, or a cool $1.00/mile.


I was thinking LAS-LAX or LGA-CHS actually. Also where is the money going to come from to build this HSR in Texas? Hasn't the mess in CA been enough?


Supposedly a private corporation. (Well, not supposedly. It is.)

Let's see if it even starts construction. Maybe a 10% chance of that?

If it does, I'd give it a 10% chance of finishing.

And another 10% for operating for a full year before going into receivership.

Hell, a private operator couldn't even make a highway work.

http://projects.expressnews.com/the-end ... -toll-road
 
Okie
Posts: 4002
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:30 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Fri Feb 08, 2019 11:07 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
I was thinking LAS-LAX or LGA-CHS actually. Also where is the money going to come from to build this HSR in Texas? Hasn't the mess in CA been enough?

Last I checked the California HSR was estimated at $2.4M per mile. So far on the first 119 miles it is costing north of $90,000,000.00 per mile and it is not complete yet, more cost to come.

That is 37.5 times the original cost.



Okie
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:42 am

DL717 wrote:
Well, I’m glad I’ve been to Hawaii. Won’t be any way to get there after this. Good luck Hawaii! There’s not enough demand to justify a choo choo tunnel to the mainland. Coast to coast in a day! What a country!!!

This chick is batshit crazy and a complete idiot. Someone take away the crayons. Well, maybe not. Let her and her pals keep going. It’ll make them unelectable. I’m sure Boeing and Airbus are shaking. :rotfl:


Yes, barely a month in office and AOC constantly steals the thunder from her liberal comrades. I love it. She is going to keep them from getting anything meaningful done. She really is a gift to Republicans!
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:54 am

I’m not sure if AOC is best described as a bright shiny object or a bunch of straws, but regardless it seems to be working for a certain demographic. :bigthumbsup:
 
NIKV69
Posts: 12502
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:18 am

jetero wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
jetero wrote:
Southwest is pretty useless for short-haul travel in its historical markets in Texas--the best advance fares in the original Wright Amendment markets seem to be $200 R/T, or a cool $1.00/mile.


I was thinking LAS-LAX or LGA-CHS actually. Also where is the money going to come from to build this HSR in Texas? Hasn't the mess in CA been enough?


Supposedly a private corporation. (Well, not supposedly. It is.)

Let's see if it even starts construction. Maybe a 10% chance of that?

If it does, I'd give it a 10% chance of finishing.

And another 10% for operating for a full year before going into receivership.

Hell, a private operator couldn't even make a highway work.

http://projects.expressnews.com/the-end ... -toll-road


Yikes. you can score WN flight AMA-HOU for pretty cheap I imagine why go through this.
"Some people did something" Rep Omar on 9/11
 
MikeDrop
Posts: 370
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:21 pm

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:57 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Yes, barely a month in office and AOC constantly steals the thunder from her liberal comrades. I love it. She is going to keep them from getting anything meaningful done. She really is a gift to Republicans!

You may change your mind on this statement in the coming months and years. In my opinion she is downright Trumpian in her approach. Not Trumpian in terms of his positions or policies, but Trumpian in how she is using both the MSM and social media to get her message out and dominate the news cycle. I don't know if she is the brains behind it all or if she has some good advisors, but regardless of how you feel about her or her policies, one has to acknowledge what shes accomplished in terms of gaining notoriety in such a short time, while starting off as a complete unknown.

According to Axios she is second only to Donald Trump in terms of twitter power.
https://www.axios.com/ocasio-cortez-dom ... 73fea.html

I think that her followers will treat her in a similar manner to how Trump's followers treat him. That is to say that any faux pas that would destroy a mainstream politician wont have any impact on her popularity with her core followers.

I admire how she has seized the moment. Having said that I'm worried about the direction that she may want to take this country.

Mike Drop
 
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WarRI1
Posts: 12719
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:08 am

Much ado about nothing, all will settle down after we get rid of the Orange man one way or another.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
TTailedTiger
Posts: 910
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:19 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:12 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Much ado about nothing, all will settle down after we get rid of the Orange man one way or another.


Typical liberal hypocrite. It's shameful you would judge someone based on their skin color.
 
User avatar
WarRI1
Posts: 12719
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 10:51 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:17 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Much ado about nothing, all will settle down after we get rid of the Orange man one way or another.


Typical liberal hypocrite. It's shameful you would judge someone based on their skin color.



Good joke there, of course I speak of his hair color, not his bottled tan. ;)
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:59 am

NIKV69 wrote:
jetero wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:

I was thinking LAS-LAX or LGA-CHS actually. Also where is the money going to come from to build this HSR in Texas? Hasn't the mess in CA been enough?


Supposedly a private corporation. (Well, not supposedly. It is.)

Let's see if it even starts construction. Maybe a 10% chance of that?

If it does, I'd give it a 10% chance of finishing.

And another 10% for operating for a full year before going into receivership.

Hell, a private operator couldn't even make a highway work.

http://projects.expressnews.com/the-end ... -toll-road


Yikes. you can score WN flight AMA-HOU for pretty cheap I imagine why go through this.


There’s no other option, except driving.

That said don’t take that as jetero’s ringing endorsement for high speed rail!
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:16 am

I’ll add however that it’s awesome to be able to go to Asia for $600. Or LA, NYC, DEN, SEA, or LAS for $200. But the death of short-haul air travel since 9/11 is pretty sad.

I’m not blaming the airlines, lots of things cause that. But how great would it be to pay a fixed fare, arrive at the airport 15 minutes before departure, get a seat (forget about assigned seats), and it you miss that flight there’s another one 30 minutes later.

Ironically that was Southwest’s old business model.
 
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stl07
Posts: 1139
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sat Feb 09, 2019 4:50 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Much ado about nothing, all will settle down after we get rid of the Orange man one way or another.


Typical liberal hypocrite. It's shameful you would judge someone based on their skin color.

Well, actually, Its the color of his tan
I'd rather be in FLYover country than layover county
 
speedbird52
Posts: 489
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:30 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sat Feb 09, 2019 6:48 am

Why are we acting like spending money on improving the environment is a bad thing? Sure, these goals are very idealistic and impractical. That is why the political system exists. The environmental crisis is a very real one. I think it is great to see someone talking about it. Now let's create some realistic goals.
Proud to be a sl*t shamer of both sexes
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:13 am

MikeDrop wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Yes, barely a month in office and AOC constantly steals the thunder from her liberal comrades. I love it. She is going to keep them from getting anything meaningful done. She really is a gift to Republicans!

You may change your mind on this statement in the coming months and years. In my opinion she is downright Trumpian in her approach. Not Trumpian in terms of his positions or policies, but Trumpian in how she is using both the MSM and social media to get her message out and dominate the news cycle. I don't know if she is the brains behind it all or if she has some good advisors, but regardless of how you feel about her or her policies, one has to acknowledge what shes accomplished in terms of gaining notoriety in such a short time, while starting off as a complete unknown.

According to Axios she is second only to Donald Trump in terms of twitter power.
https://www.axios.com/ocasio-cortez-dom ... 73fea.html

I think that her followers will treat her in a similar manner to how Trump's followers treat him. That is to say that any faux pas that would destroy a mainstream politician wont have any impact on her popularity with her core followers.

I admire how she has seized the moment. Having said that I'm worried about the direction that she may want to take this country.

Mike Drop


MD I agree with everything you said ...

I think my brain is exploding!
 
NIKV69
Posts: 12502
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:27 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:32 am

jetero wrote:

There’s no other option, except driving.

That said don’t take that as jetero’s ringing endorsement for high speed rail!


I am not against HSR per se but in this country it's just practical as it is in a China etc.
"Some people did something" Rep Omar on 9/11
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:43 am

NIKV69 wrote:
jetero wrote:

There’s no other option, except driving.

That said don’t take that as jetero’s ringing endorsement for high speed rail!


I am not against HSR per se but in this country it's just practical as it is in a China etc.


C’mon Nikky, have you even looked at the Chinese HSR network?! It’s as practical as dropping a line from Houston to Chicago.

Anyway I’m sure it’ll all work out very well in the end for China, just not sure why we can’t have a conversation about infrastructure without people crying “eminent domain” and “it costs too much money.”

That attitude is a friggin cancer on the country and will ensure the US drops way way way behind.
 
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DL717
Posts: 1249
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:28 pm

aviationaware wrote:
I love how Ocasio Cortez ran on making housing a human right and now she wants to rebuild or renovate every single building in the country, which would make housing utterly unaffordable for many people.

Totally nuts.


Libs never consider the cost of their pipe dreams.
Welcome to Nothingburgers. May I take your order?
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 8087
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:34 pm

DL717 wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
I love how Ocasio Cortez ran on making housing a human right and now she wants to rebuild or renovate every single building in the country, which would make housing utterly unaffordable for many people.

Totally nuts.


Libs never consider the cost of their pipe dreams.



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