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Jouhou
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:10 pm

ORDfan101 wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
I'll be thrilled if this is their platform in 2020. A real gift.


Literally handing trump another term of Kampala Harris or some other green new deal idiots run. Unless the dems run a centerist, they will die in 2020! Biden vs trump, idk because i’m Jewish and us jews are indebted to Trump for the embassy being moved to our CAPITAL Jerusalem, along with tax cuts and a better economy, and the fact that my family was a partner of pence before he got into politics But Biden? He might get my vote against trump if that’s the ballot.


You realize why US Christians even want to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel right? It's not because they're real allies to Jewish people, it's because they literally want the world to end.

Also lol, the tax "cuts" were a lie and the economy has been slowing.
 
ORDfan101
Posts: 72
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:16 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
I, for one, LOVE the "Green New Deal" as proposed; it's a surefire way to drive independent voters into the arms of the GOP in the next election cycle.

I can't wait for the #MABA hats to start showing up; "Make Alexandria a Bartender Again!"


M.A.H.A

Make Alexandra hamas again! She and Omar are literally their spokeflakes
 
AirFiero
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:17 pm

ORDfan101 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Pfff government regulates all kinds of things, but somehow ICE powered cars are in the constitutional right or something and cannot be changed? Or are you against government regulation in general? And believe we should live in anarchy?



Yet another typical flawed argument, this one being the logical fallicy know as Reductio ad Absurdum


https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/too ... d-Absurdum
Description: A mode of argumentation or a form of argument in which a proposition is disproven by following its implications logically to an absurd conclusion. Arguments that use universals such as, “always”, “never”, “everyone”, “nobody”, etc., are prone to being reduced to absurd conclusions. The fallacy is in the argument that could be reduced to absurdity -- so in essence, reductio ad absurdum is a technique to expose the fallacy.

At no point did I suggest anarchy or complete lack of government regulations. As you previously said, balance is important. Your argument to the 100% extreme is nonsense and fellacious.


Guys you might think people who don’t believe in climate change are crazy but we also have evidence and have a right to say our opinion without being attacked


But that's part of the issue, isn't it? If you are so much as skeptical, they ATTACK you. They act like global warming is their religion, and they act exactly like religious zealots. Global warming isn't science now, it's a cult religion. And YOU and I are heretics who should be burned at the stake. Interesting turn of oppressors, isn't it?
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 7560
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:18 pm

ORDfan101 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Pfff government regulates all kinds of things, but somehow ICE powered cars are in the constitutional right or something and cannot be changed? Or are you against government regulation in general? And believe we should live in anarchy?



Yet another typical flawed argument, this one being the logical fallicy know as Reductio ad Absurdum


https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/too ... d-Absurdum
Description: A mode of argumentation or a form of argument in which a proposition is disproven by following its implications logically to an absurd conclusion. Arguments that use universals such as, “always”, “never”, “everyone”, “nobody”, etc., are prone to being reduced to absurd conclusions. The fallacy is in the argument that could be reduced to absurdity -- so in essence, reductio ad absurdum is a technique to expose the fallacy.

At no point did I suggest anarchy or complete lack of government regulations. As you previously said, balance is important. Your argument to the 100% extreme is nonsense and fellacious.


Guys you might think people who don’t believe in climate change are crazy but we also have evidence and have a right to say our opinion without being attacked



Point being, it isn't a believe which you could brush away.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
ORDfan101
Posts: 72
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:26 pm

Jouhou wrote:
ORDfan101 wrote:
tjwgrr wrote:
I'll be thrilled if this is their platform in 2020. A real gift.


Literally handing trump another term of Kampala Harris or some other green new deal idiots run. Unless the dems run a centerist, they will die in 2020! Biden vs trump, idk because i’m Jewish and us jews are indebted to Trump for the embassy being moved to our CAPITAL Jerusalem, along with tax cuts and a better economy, and the fact that my family was a partner of pence before he got into politics But Biden? He might get my vote against trump if that’s the ballot.


You realize why US Christians even want to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel right? It's not because they're real allies to Jewish people, it's because they literally want the world to end.

Also lol, the tax "cuts" were a lie and the economy has been slowing.


They moved the embassy because they want to go to their holy places and not get killed by a mob of Arabs. At least we let the Muslims and Christians visit their holy places, while we couldn’t visit Israel, let alone our holy places do r hundreds of years,Also why is it about Christians wanting the world to end? The Christians literally say that Jews are the only people who don’t need to believe in Christ to go to heaven. Many Christians believe that you have to be friendly to Jews because god will not forgive them if they let Israel fall. (Btw lbj’s grandfather told him that when he was in office)
 
ORDfan101
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:14 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:30 pm

AirFiero wrote:
ORDfan101 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:


Yet another typical flawed argument, this one being the logical fallicy know as Reductio ad Absurdum


https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/too ... d-Absurdum
Description: A mode of argumentation or a form of argument in which a proposition is disproven by following its implications logically to an absurd conclusion. Arguments that use universals such as, “always”, “never”, “everyone”, “nobody”, etc., are prone to being reduced to absurd conclusions. The fallacy is in the argument that could be reduced to absurdity -- so in essence, reductio ad absurdum is a technique to expose the fallacy.

At no point did I suggest anarchy or complete lack of government regulations. As you previously said, balance is important. Your argument to the 100% extreme is nonsense and fellacious.


Guys you might think people who don’t believe in climate change are crazy but we also have evidence and have a right to say our opinion without being attacked


But that's part of the issue, isn't it? If you are so much as skeptical, they ATTACK you. They act like global warming is their religion, and they act exactly like religious zealots. Global warming isn't science now, it's a cult religion. And YOU and I are heretics who should be burned at the stake. Interesting turn of oppressors, isn't it?


Agreed, same with Israel Palestinian conflict; I’m attacked when I try to even have a pleasent conversation with the Muslims that have all fled Syria to my neighborhood because I’m a infidelious little rat who tries to take al asqa
 
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Jouhou
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:30 pm

Also, since Israel is now a topic in this thread, a friendly reminder that the US is the only country in the developed world that has such a large segment of climate change deniers.

http://www.sviva.gov.il/English/env_top ... fault.aspx

Israel doesn't pretend it's not real.
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 7560
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:31 pm

AirFiero wrote:
But that's part of the issue, isn't it? If you are so much as skeptical, they ATTACK you. They act like global warming is their religion, and they act exactly like religious zealots. Global warming isn't science now, it's a cult religion. And YOU and I are heretics who should be burned at the stake. Interesting turn of oppressors, isn't it?


Look, we should have started 20 years ago or 1972 with “The Limits to growth: a global challenge” was being published by the Club of Rome. All this: might not be true, or we can wait, or we want absolute truth or whatever reason there is, we cannot wait anymore, the longer we wait the more problematic it is going to be.

We cannot afford to wait any longer, is as simple as that.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
ORDfan101
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:14 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:34 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Also, since Israel is now a topic in this thread, a friendly reminder that the US is the only country in the developed world that has such a large segment of climate change deniers.

http://www.sviva.gov.il/English/env_top ... fault.aspx

Israel doesn't pretend it's not real.


I believe it’s real, just not as fast or as terrible as people say it is.

Forgive me for not making my position clear
 
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Jouhou
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:37 pm

ORDfan101 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
ORDfan101 wrote:

Literally handing trump another term of Kampala Harris or some other green new deal idiots run. Unless the dems run a centerist, they will die in 2020! Biden vs trump, idk because i’m Jewish and us jews are indebted to Trump for the embassy being moved to our CAPITAL Jerusalem, along with tax cuts and a better economy, and the fact that my family was a partner of pence before he got into politics But Biden? He might get my vote against trump if that’s the ballot.


You realize why US Christians even want to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel right? It's not because they're real allies to Jewish people, it's because they literally want the world to end.

Also lol, the tax "cuts" were a lie and the economy has been slowing.


They moved the embassy because they want to go to their holy places and not get killed by a mob of Arabs. At least we let the Muslims and Christians visit their holy places, while we couldn’t visit Israel, let alone our holy places do r hundreds of years,Also why is it about Christians wanting the world to end? The Christians literally say that Jews are the only people who don’t need to believe in Christ to go to heaven. Many Christians believe that you have to be friendly to Jews because god will not forgive them if they let Israel fall. (Btw lbj’s grandfather told him that when he was in office)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pol ... -prophecy/

"What kick-starts the end times into motion is Israel’s political boundaries being reestablished to what God promised the Israelites according to the Bible,” Pastor Nate Pyle told Newsweek in January.

This is not an uncommon view.

The LifeWay poll found that 80 percent of evangelicals believed that the creation of Israel in 1948 was a fulfillment of biblical prophecy that would bring about Christ’s return.
 
ORDfan101
Posts: 72
Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2019 2:14 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:38 pm

Dutchy wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
But that's part of the issue, isn't it? If you are so much as skeptical, they ATTACK you. They act like global warming is their religion, and they act exactly like religious zealots. Global warming isn't science now, it's a cult religion. And YOU and I are heretics who should be burned at the stake. Interesting turn of oppressors, isn't it?


Look, we should have started 20 years ago or 1972 with “The Limits to growth: a global challenge” was being published by the Club of Rome. All this: might not be true, or we can wait, or we want absolute truth or whatever reason there is, we cannot wait anymore, the longer we wait the more problematic it is going to be.

We cannot afford to wait any longer, is as simple as that.


But we also can’t afford to just go clean! That’s taking away probably at least 60% of power in many places and not to mention the millions of jobs! If you have an actually economicly viable plan, then say it! It’s not really smart to save the future by destroying the present!
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 7560
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:45 pm

ORDfan101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
But that's part of the issue, isn't it? If you are so much as skeptical, they ATTACK you. They act like global warming is their religion, and they act exactly like religious zealots. Global warming isn't science now, it's a cult religion. And YOU and I are heretics who should be burned at the stake. Interesting turn of oppressors, isn't it?


Look, we should have started 20 years ago or 1972 with “The Limits to growth: a global challenge” was being published by the Club of Rome. All this: might not be true, or we can wait, or we want absolute truth or whatever reason there is, we cannot wait anymore, the longer we wait the more problematic it is going to be.

We cannot afford to wait any longer, is as simple as that.


But we also can’t afford to just go clean! That’s taking away probably at least 60% of power in many places and not to mention the millions of jobs! If you have an actually economicly viable plan, then say it! It’s not really smart to save the future by destroying the present!


Nobody says: just to go clean, the plan is in 31 years. A huge transition takes time, but the longer we wait the more pain it is going to have. So if you accept the end result, way fight it now?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
ORDfan101
Posts: 72
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:46 pm

Jouhou wrote:
ORDfan101 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:

You realize why US Christians even want to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel right? It's not because they're real allies to Jewish people, it's because they literally want the world to end.

Also lol, the tax "cuts" were a lie and the economy has been slowing.


They moved the embassy because they want to go to their holy places and not get killed by a mob of Arabs. At least we let the Muslims and Christians visit their holy places, while we couldn’t visit Israel, let alone our holy places do r hundreds of years,Also why is it about Christians wanting the world to end? The Christians literally say that Jews are the only people who don’t need to believe in Christ to go to heaven. Many Christians believe that you have to be friendly to Jews because god will not forgive them if they let Israel fall. (Btw lbj’s grandfather told him that when he was in office)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pol ... -prophecy/

"What kick-starts the end times into motion is Israel’s political boundaries being reestablished to what God promised the Israelites according to the Bible,” Pastor Nate Pyle told Newsweek in January.

This is not an uncommon view.

The LifeWay poll found that 80 percent of evangelicals believed that the creation of Israel in 1948 was a fulfillment of biblical prophecy that would bring about Christ’s return.


Nice article and thanks for backing up my point! Unfortunately there are Jews and non Jews who think that Israel is a imperialist and apartheid country. For the imperialist rebuke, Israel was socialist until the early/ mid 60s, when they realized that reliance on German reperations and donations from rich NYC jews isn’t a working economic system. For the apartheid rebuke, if you don’t want a 12 foot wall, stop bombing and stabbing
us! We want peace, and we don’t like to retaliate!

(Ps my cousin and uncle have both been killedc by suicide bombers so be careful it’s a bit sensitive)
 
ORDfan101
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:49 pm

Dutchy wrote:
ORDfan101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Look, we should have started 20 years ago or 1972 with “The Limits to growth: a global challenge” was being published by the Club of Rome. All this: might not be true, or we can wait, or we want absolute truth or whatever reason there is, we cannot wait anymore, the longer we wait the more problematic it is going to be.

We cannot afford to wait any longer, is as simple as that.


But we also can’t afford to just go clean! That’s taking away probably at least 60% of power in many places and not to mention the millions of jobs! If you have an actually economicly viable plan, then say it! It’s not really smart to save the future by destroying the present!


Nobody says: just to go clean, the plan is in 31 years. A huge transition takes time, but the longer we wait the more pain it is going to have. So if you accept the end result, way fight it now?


But you still don’t see the effects of the changes! Our entire economic structure would need to be changed in 30 years! Also, what are the actual possible casualties of climate change?( just asking as I have not seen statistics about it )
 
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Dutchy
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:55 pm

ORDfan101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
ORDfan101 wrote:

But we also can’t afford to just go clean! That’s taking away probably at least 60% of power in many places and not to mention the millions of jobs! If you have an actually economicly viable plan, then say it! It’s not really smart to save the future by destroying the present!


Nobody says: just to go clean, the plan is in 31 years. A huge transition takes time, but the longer we wait the more pain it is going to have. So if you accept the end result, way fight it now?


But you still don’t see the effects of the changes! Our entire economic structure would need to be changed in 30 years! Also, what are the actual possible casualties of climate change?( just asking as I have not seen statistics about it )


> You do not see the effect of these climat changes? Google it!
> Yes, our entire economic structure needs to be changed, yes there will be winners and losers in the economic department. Nobody is denying that the task is huge.
> Also, what are the actual possible casualties of climate change? Here you go again:

Image

Image
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Jouhou
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:56 pm

ORDfan101 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
ORDfan101 wrote:

They moved the embassy because they want to go to their holy places and not get killed by a mob of Arabs. At least we let the Muslims and Christians visit their holy places, while we couldn’t visit Israel, let alone our holy places do r hundreds of years,Also why is it about Christians wanting the world to end? The Christians literally say that Jews are the only people who don’t need to believe in Christ to go to heaven. Many Christians believe that you have to be friendly to Jews because god will not forgive them if they let Israel fall. (Btw lbj’s grandfather told him that when he was in office)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pol ... -prophecy/

"What kick-starts the end times into motion is Israel’s political boundaries being reestablished to what God promised the Israelites according to the Bible,” Pastor Nate Pyle told Newsweek in January.

This is not an uncommon view.

The LifeWay poll found that 80 percent of evangelicals believed that the creation of Israel in 1948 was a fulfillment of biblical prophecy that would bring about Christ’s return.


Nice article and thanks for backing up my point! Unfortunately there are Jews and non Jews who think that Israel is a imperialist and apartheid country. For the imperialist rebuke, Israel was socialist until the early/ mid 60s, when they realized that reliance on German reperations and donations from rich NYC jews isn’t a working economic system. For the apartheid rebuke, if you don’t want a 12 foot wall, stop bombing and stabbing
us! We want peace, and we don’t like to retaliate!

(Ps my cousin and uncle have both been killedc by suicide bombers so be careful it’s a bit sensitive)


I'm of the opinion that the Israel-palestine mess is a lot less simple than many bystanders make it out to be. There is no easy solution and Hamas is f*ed up. I also think Israel has the upper hand and inevitably has to be the one to offer the olive branch- the heavy handed strategy against Palestinians only keeps the likes of Hamas relevant. Is that easy when they brainwash people from an early age to be "martyrs"? No, but without a clear solution work has to be done to not reinforce their hatred.
 
seb146
Posts: 18901
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:13 pm

AirFiero wrote:
seb146 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Life cannot exist without CO2, it governs our respiration and it’s essential to plant life. Doesn’t sound too polluting to me, btw, it’s been at far higher levels than today.

GF


There is no such thing as too much water, either? Like during Katrina? No such thing as too much nuclear energy? Like Chernobyl? No such thing as too much heat? Like Phoenix? No such thing as too much morphine?

Too much is fine? Sulfur is naturally occurring, too. Try living off that.


Another BS argument, basically changing the subject or making a a false equivalent. We are not talking about water or anything else. We are talking about CO2 concentration. And we are nowhere near levels harmful to humans...

https://ohsonline.com/articles/2016/04/ ... l.aspx?m=1

Exposure to carbon dioxide can produce a variety of health effects. These may include headaches, dizziness, restlessness, a tingling or pins or needles feeling, difficulty breathing, sweating, tiredness, and increased heart rate.

Carbon dioxide levels and potential health problems are indicated below:

250-350 ppm: background (normal) outdoor air level
350-1,000 ppm: typical level found in occupied spaces with good air exchange
1,000-2,000 ppm: level associated with complaints of drowsiness and poor air
2,000-5,000 ppm: level associated with headaches, sleepiness, and stagnant, stale, stuffy air; poor concentration, loss of attention, increased heart rate and slight nausea may also be present.
>5,000 ppm: This indicates unusual air conditions where high levels of other gases also could be present. Toxicity or oxygen deprivation could occur. This is the permissible exposure limit for daily workplace exposures.
>40,000 ppm: This level is immediately harmful due to oxygen deprivation.


Melting ice caps and mountain glaciers, coastal areas under water, stronger storms, spieceis of animals dying off.... absolutely zero problems there brought on by rising CO2 levels.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
ORDfan101
Posts: 72
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:42 pm

Dutchy wrote:
ORDfan101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Nobody says: just to go clean, the plan is in 31 years. A huge transition takes time, but the longer we wait the more pain it is going to have. So if you accept the end result, way fight it now?


But you still don’t see the effects of the changes! Our entire economic structure would need to be changed in 30 years! Also, what are the actual possible casualties of climate change?( just asking as I have not seen statistics about it )


> You do not see the effect of these climat changes? Google it!
> Yes, our entire economic structure needs to be changed, yes there will be winners and losers in the economic department. Nobody is denying that the task is huge.
> Also, what are the actual possible casualties of climate change? Here you go again:

Image

Image

You’re just attacking me because I have a different opinion. Maybe you can persuade me to your side, not by attacking me for thinking of the massive repercussions of BOTH options. At least I’m open to hear your point of view! The point is, both options suck but ultimately it’s up to what people want! Do you aren’t considering how reliant you and I are on fossil fuels! To get rid of them entirely would bankrupt multiple countries and basically require the ENTIRE infrastructure of the world to be replaced. It’s not as easy as you think it is
 
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Dutchy
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Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:19 pm

ORDfan101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
ORDfan101 wrote:

But you still don’t see the effects of the changes! Our entire economic structure would need to be changed in 30 years! Also, what are the actual possible casualties of climate change?( just asking as I have not seen statistics about it )


> You do not see the effect of these climat changes? Google it!
> Yes, our entire economic structure needs to be changed, yes there will be winners and losers in the economic department. Nobody is denying that the task is huge.
> Also, what are the actual possible casualties of climate change? Here you go again:

Image

Image

You’re just attacking me because I have a different opinion. Maybe you can persuade me to your side, not by attacking me for thinking of the massive repercussions of BOTH options. At least I’m open to hear your point of view! The point is, both options suck but ultimately it’s up to what people want! Do you aren’t considering how reliant you and I are on fossil fuels! To get rid of them entirely would bankrupt multiple countries and basically require the ENTIRE infrastructure of the world to be replaced. It’s not as easy as you think it is


I don't think it is easy, where did I say that? I know how reliant we are on fossil fuels not just for transportation, but also in other parts in our daily lives. It is a massive undertaking to get fossil fuels out of our lives. But it is something we can do. I have heard numbers for the Netherlands of 90bn Euro's till 2030 to get our goal of 45% reduction in 2030, that is about 1,5% of the GNP, that is doable. And most important, we need to give our companies direction and a timeline to get rid of carbon emissions. If we do this it is manageable.
The other side is if we do nothing and the worst scenario is going to be true, 4 degrees global temperature rise will mean that large portions of the world will be inhabitable, either because of the high temperatures or because they are submerged. I think that will trump a few bankrupt countries if that even happens.

Ultimately, fossil fuel is going to end, either because we, as humanity, want to stop polluting our atmosphere or because we have run out. I chose to advocate to stop burning fossil fuels as soon as possible.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 7:20 pm

SheikhDjibouti wrote:
Thunderboltdrgn wrote:
The key word is balance. Planet earth needs a balance of all that it needs to function just like the human body needs to have a balance
of everything it needs. As long as all needs are balanced everything is just fine but as soon as you start to shift the balance problems starts to happen.
It's called homoeostasis (when applied to living organisms) https://medical-dictionary.thefreedicti ... moeostasis :checkmark:

Oxygen is not a pollutant but too much oxygen and it will cause hyperoxia which will damage your body. Too little oxygen and it will cause hypoxia.
Too little water and sustainable life will be limited and too much water will cause floodings and etc.The human body needs water to function but too
little and we get dehydrated and too much water will cause hyperhydration/water intoxication.
All of your body's needs will/can be dangerous/problematic in too large concentrations/quantities. :checkmark:
Good stuff so far...

All this goes for earth as well. Too little CO2 and not enough oxygen will be produced. Too much co2 and the plants/trees can' deal with it and
co2 concentration in the air increased contributing to the greenhouse effect and can also be toxic for humans/animals.
I regret I cannot award a green tick to these final statements :shakehead:

If I may offer some clarification; regarding "not enough oxygen will be produced". I understand what you are trying to say, but the numbers don't work that way.
Currently we have an atmosphere comprised of nitrogen (about 78%), oxygen (about 21%), argon (about 0.9%) , carbon dioxide (0.04%) and other gases in trace amounts.
You can probably already see where your statement falls down now.

Also; brief increases in CO² can be dealt with by natural processes, over time.
Sustained increases, combined with a reduction in plant matter across the globe, is a recipe for disaster. Long term the planet will recover, but sensitive delicate organisms (that's us!) will be wiped out long before the recovery process makes things right again.

I would also add that CO² concentrations in the air would have to increase dramatically before it has a direct toxic effect on human or animal life.
It is the indirect effects that will kill us, …. or make us wish we were dead.

Reducing emission of pollutants (including co2) can never be a negative thing. :checkmark:


Yeah yeah ok then. :P
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
AirFiero
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:08 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Also, since Israel is now a topic in this thread, a friendly reminder that the US is the only country in the developed world that has such a large segment of climate change deniers.

http://www.sviva.gov.il/English/env_top ... fault.aspx

Israel doesn't pretend it's not real.


Well gee, maybe we are SKEPTICAL (not deniers) because it is us who would be taxed and regulated to death. So yeah, color me SKEPTICAL. Besides, that's what INTELLIGENT people do, rather than being a dumb sheep who believes everything they are told.
 
AirFiero
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:10 pm

Dutchy wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
But that's part of the issue, isn't it? If you are so much as skeptical, they ATTACK you. They act like global warming is their religion, and they act exactly like religious zealots. Global warming isn't science now, it's a cult religion. And YOU and I are heretics who should be burned at the stake. Interesting turn of oppressors, isn't it?


Look, we should have started 20 years ago or 1972 with “The Limits to growth: a global challenge” was being published by the Club of Rome. All this: might not be true, or we can wait, or we want absolute truth or whatever reason there is, we cannot wait anymore, the longer we wait the more problematic it is going to be.

We cannot afford to wait any longer, is as simple as that.


Club of Rome, aren't they the ones who want to eliminate 90% of human population?? Yeah, I suppose that would solve the alleged human caused warming.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:23 pm

AirFiero wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
But that's part of the issue, isn't it? If you are so much as skeptical, they ATTACK you. They act like global warming is their religion, and they act exactly like religious zealots. Global warming isn't science now, it's a cult religion. And YOU and I are heretics who should be burned at the stake. Interesting turn of oppressors, isn't it?


Look, we should have started 20 years ago or 1972 with “The Limits to growth: a global challenge” was being published by the Club of Rome. All this: might not be true, or we can wait, or we want absolute truth or whatever reason there is, we cannot wait anymore, the longer we wait the more problematic it is going to be.

We cannot afford to wait any longer, is as simple as that.


Club of Rome, aren't they the ones who want to eliminate 90% of human population?? Yeah, I suppose that would solve the alleged human caused warming.


:roll: can't take your comments seriously.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
ORDfan101
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:25 pm

Dutchy wrote:
ORDfan101 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

> You do not see the effect of these climat changes? Google it!
> Yes, our entire economic structure needs to be changed, yes there will be winners and losers in the economic department. Nobody is denying that the task is huge.
> Also, what are the actual possible casualties of climate change? Here you go again:

[img]https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/conworld/images/6/6f/Cliame_change_map.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb

Image

You’re just attacking me because I have a different opinion. Maybe you can persuade me to your side, not by attacking me for thinking of the massive repercussions of BOTH options. At least I’m open to hear your point of view! The point is, both options suck but ultimately it’s up to what people want! Do you aren’t considering how reliant you and I are on fossil fuels! To get rid of them entirely would bankrupt multiple countries and basically require the ENTIRE infrastructure of the world to be replaced. It’s not as easy as you think it is


Pardon me, I probably sound stupid, but if there was so much pollution, wouldn’t it block out the sun like volcanic ash (Krakatoa) and cool the planet? Please I’m just asking a question and not denying anything I’m just asking for peoples opinions on this.

I don't think it is easy, where did I say that? I know how reliant we are on fossil fuels not just for transportation, but also in other parts in our daily lives. It is a massive undertaking to get fossil fuels out of our lives. But it is something we can do. I have heard numbers for the Netherlands of 90bn Euro's till 2030 to get our goal of 45% reduction in 2030, that is about 1,5% of the GNP, that is doable. And most important, we need to give our companies direction and a timeline to get rid of carbon emissions. If we do this it is manageable.
The other side is if we do nothing and the worst scenario is going to be true, 4 degrees global temperature rise will mean that large portions of the world will be inhabitable, either because of the high temperatures or because they are submerged. I think that will trump a few bankrupt countries if that even happens.

Ultimately, fossil fuel is going to end, either because we, as humanity, want to stop polluting our atmosphere or because we have run out. I chose to advocate to stop burning fossil fuels as soon as possible.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:51 pm

AirFiero wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Also, since Israel is now a topic in this thread, a friendly reminder that the US is the only country in the developed world that has such a large segment of climate change deniers.

http://www.sviva.gov.il/English/env_top ... fault.aspx

Israel doesn't pretend it's not real.


Well gee, maybe we are SKEPTICAL (not deniers) because it is us who would be taxed and regulated to death. So yeah, color me SKEPTICAL. Besides, that's what INTELLIGENT people do, rather than being a dumb sheep who believes everything they are told.


The only reason why you are "skeptical" is because you believe lies you were told. As mentioned before, the US is the only developed country where this "skepticism" exists. BTW which crowd is into political correctness now?!! Who is whining that they don't like the words being used to describe them?

I follow energy news as an investor. Wind and solar, unsubsidized, is over time becoming the cheapest energy sources in increasingly large portions of the world. Natural gas seems to be the only fossil fuel investment that isn't within a decade of peak consumption. Give me a break.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 8:52 pm

Dutchy wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
But that's part of the issue, isn't it? If you are so much as skeptical, they ATTACK you. They act like global warming is their religion, and they act exactly like religious zealots. Global warming isn't science now, it's a cult religion. And YOU and I are heretics who should be burned at the stake. Interesting turn of oppressors, isn't it?


Look, we should have started 20 years ago or 1972 with “The Limits to growth: a global challenge” was being published by the Club of Rome. All this: might not be true, or we can wait, or we want absolute truth or whatever reason there is, we cannot wait anymore, the longer we wait the more problematic it is going to be.

We cannot afford to wait any longer, is as simple as that.


In 2007, IPCC said we had 8 years left, in 2018 they said 12 years. More scare mongering. If you want to go back to the 70s, we were all supposed to be stricken with starvation by said the population experts of the day. In 1973, fossil fuels were going run out by 1979. Of course, we were supposed to run out of petroleum in the next ten years since they were first discovered for modern uses in the 1800s. I had a friend who was a UAL captain tell me in no uncertain terms jet fuel would run out by July 1979; that fact was “inescapable”. Lord Kelvin, the preeminent scientist of his time said, in 1903, “heavier than air flight was impossible”.

I lived long enough to have healthy skepticism of “experts” especially when they are predicting the future. Don’t believe anything I hear and only half of what I see. Treat sacred objects with deep caution. Climate change has a lot in common with medieval religion; “believe us, the anointed, it’s too much for you deplorables”. The GND is a society wide “indulgence” paid to prevent hell on Earth—rising waters (Obama stopped that); disappearing cities going underwater. It’s warmed before (Roman and Middle Age Warm Periods); cooled before and its changing again. Adapt.

GF
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 9:53 pm

The climate is changing... maybe... but man's actions are not causing it, imo.

Two words... Cow Farts.

It's like saying the US should restrict plastic bag/straw/bottle use, because 80% of plastic waste in the oceans come from elsewhere.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
bagoldex
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:35 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
The climate is changing... maybe... but man's actions are not causing it, imo.

Two words... Cow Farts.

It's like saying the US should restrict plastic bag/straw/bottle use, because 80% of plastic waste in the oceans come from elsewhere.


What are your scientific credentials? Why should anyone value your opinion on the topic?
 
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Jouhou
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:41 pm

bagoldex wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
The climate is changing... maybe... but man's actions are not causing it, imo.

Two words... Cow Farts.

It's like saying the US should restrict plastic bag/straw/bottle use, because 80% of plastic waste in the oceans come from elsewhere.


What are your scientific credentials? Why should anyone value your opinion on the topic?


Perhaps we should recommend vegetarianism since he recognizes that the meat industry contributes massively to greenhouse gas emmissions? I'm sure that was the response he was looking for...
 
AirFiero
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:43 pm

seb146 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
seb146 wrote:

There is no such thing as too much water, either? Like during Katrina? No such thing as too much nuclear energy? Like Chernobyl? No such thing as too much heat? Like Phoenix? No such thing as too much morphine?

Too much is fine? Sulfur is naturally occurring, too. Try living off that.


Another BS argument, basically changing the subject or making a a false equivalent. We are not talking about water or anything else. We are talking about CO2 concentration. And we are nowhere near levels harmful to humans...

https://ohsonline.com/articles/2016/04/ ... l.aspx?m=1

Exposure to carbon dioxide can produce a variety of health effects. These may include headaches, dizziness, restlessness, a tingling or pins or needles feeling, difficulty breathing, sweating, tiredness, and increased heart rate.

Carbon dioxide levels and potential health problems are indicated below:

250-350 ppm: background (normal) outdoor air level
350-1,000 ppm: typical level found in occupied spaces with good air exchange
1,000-2,000 ppm: level associated with complaints of drowsiness and poor air
2,000-5,000 ppm: level associated with headaches, sleepiness, and stagnant, stale, stuffy air; poor concentration, loss of attention, increased heart rate and slight nausea may also be present.
>5,000 ppm: This indicates unusual air conditions where high levels of other gases also could be present. Toxicity or oxygen deprivation could occur. This is the permissible exposure limit for daily workplace exposures.
>40,000 ppm: This level is immediately harmful due to oxygen deprivation.


Melting ice caps and mountain glaciers, coastal areas under water, stronger storms, spieceis of animals dying off.... absolutely zero problems there brought on by rising CO2 levels.


Ice caps are NOT melting. Arctic ice is still near normal, even though we were told ten years ago that the arctic would be ice free by now. Antarctic ice is ABOVE normal, contrary to the warmists models.

Sea level rise began in the 1700s, as we came out of the little ice age.

Animal species are not dying off at any rate greater than history.

NO weather events can be connected to alleged warming.

So no, we don't have a problem.
 
AirFiero
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:52 pm

Dutchy wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Look, we should have started 20 years ago or 1972 with “The Limits to growth: a global challenge” was being published by the Club of Rome. All this: might not be true, or we can wait, or we want absolute truth or whatever reason there is, we cannot wait anymore, the longer we wait the more problematic it is going to be.

We cannot afford to wait any longer, is as simple as that.


Club of Rome, aren't they the ones who want to eliminate 90% of human population?? Yeah, I suppose that would solve the alleged human caused warming.


:roll: can't take your comments seriously.


Like most global warming sheep, you simply can't handle any discussion or debate that disagrees with what you've been conditioned to think.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:47 pm

Everyone does know life on Earth existed BEFORE humans? We’ve been here a tiny portion of geologic history and mammalian life I’d not going away anytime soon.

When I see politicians actually changing their personal behaviors, I’m looking at you Democrats, stop going to conferences in Davos, live in less extravagant homes, stop with the limos, I’ll listen. They have a vested interest in climate change, it will greatly expand thier powers and control over the citizens—that’s a feature of climate change. As one pol said, “never let a crisis go to waste”. A Chicago Democrat, of course.


GF
 
ORDfan101
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:59 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Everyone does know life on Earth existed BEFORE humans? We’ve been here a tiny portion of geologic history and mammalian life I’d not going away anytime soon.

When I see politicians actually changing their personal behaviors, I’m looking at you Democrats, stop going to conferences in Davos, live in less extravagant homes, stop with the limos, I’ll listen. They have a vested interest in climate change, it will greatly expand thier powers and control over the citizens—that’s a feature of climate change. As one pol said, “never let a crisis go to waste”. A Chicago Democrat, of course.

Agreed and well spoken


GF
 
mham001
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:05 am

tommy1808 wrote:
It does not just matter how many jobs there are, it also matters where they are created. Renewable energy jobs are usually close to where power is created, fossil energy jobs are often in Saudi Arabia. I gladly unemploy 1000 people there to have 500 more people employed here.


Not in my country.

AirFiero wrote:

You still haven't addressed the economic reality that if you it requires millions more people to produce the same amount of energy, then the price of that energy WILL rise. So if you like your already high electric, heating and air conditioning bills then you will love the higher bills when you get all the renewable energy costs figured in.


I live in the mildest climate in North America and my electric bills run in the hundreds of dollar/month. Wait until Average Joe in the hot/cold midwest starts seeing $0.28/kWh.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:14 am

mham001 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
It does not just matter how many jobs there are, it also matters where they are created. Renewable energy jobs are usually close to where power is created, fossil energy jobs are often in Saudi Arabia. I gladly unemploy 1000 people there to have 500 more people employed here.


Not in my country.

AirFiero wrote:

You still haven't addressed the economic reality that if you it requires millions more people to produce the same amount of energy, then the price of that energy WILL rise. So if you like your already high electric, heating and air conditioning bills then you will love the higher bills when you get all the renewable energy costs figured in.


I live in the mildest climate in North America and my electric bills run in the hundreds of dollar/month. Wait until Average Joe in the hot/cold midwest starts seeing $0.28/kWh.


Wind power in particular being added to the electricity generation mix brings electric bills down in cold climates that incidentally tend to be quite windy. You've mentioned being in California before, the cost of infrastructure there is insane. I don't think it's generation cost that hits cali, it's the cost of building high voltage transmission lines over long distances and then maintaining them and grooming the dry brush underneath to minimize wildfire liability, as we've seen with whats happened to PG&E recently. We have shorter distances and a moister climate going for us, and in the northeast a high cost of fossil fuels because we have none to extract. It's all transported long distances to us adding greatly to cost.
 
Spark94541
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Re: New Green Deal - Air travel obsolete

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:31 am

PatrickZ80 wrote:
maps4ltd wrote:
The woman's mad.


I wouldn't say that, but she's out of touch with reality. She's heading the right way, but she's in it too far.

She strikes me as a populist who says what her base wants her to say,
Spark94541 wrote:
It's 2 1/2 hours on a plane, but can a train do it in 7 hours?

PatrickZ80 wrote:
True, but if you got all the time in the world, why wouldn't you take the train? Specially if the train would be much cheaper than flying.

And that's just the problem as it is, the train is hardly cheaper than flying. In some cases it's even more expensive. This can be solved in two ways, either make air travel more expensive or make the train cheaper.


TIme is a premium for a lot of the intended passengers. For me, I might go to Los Angeles for a weekend, and sometimes just for the day or a few days. The journey is essentially a prolonged commute. Especially if I'm going for work.

That doesn't mean it has to be faster than a plane, but it has to close enough
 
seb146
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:32 am

AirFiero wrote:
seb146 wrote:
AirFiero wrote:

Another BS argument, basically changing the subject or making a a false equivalent. We are not talking about water or anything else. We are talking about CO2 concentration. And we are nowhere near levels harmful to humans...

https://ohsonline.com/articles/2016/04/ ... l.aspx?m=1

Exposure to carbon dioxide can produce a variety of health effects. These may include headaches, dizziness, restlessness, a tingling or pins or needles feeling, difficulty breathing, sweating, tiredness, and increased heart rate.

Carbon dioxide levels and potential health problems are indicated below:

250-350 ppm: background (normal) outdoor air level
350-1,000 ppm: typical level found in occupied spaces with good air exchange
1,000-2,000 ppm: level associated with complaints of drowsiness and poor air
2,000-5,000 ppm: level associated with headaches, sleepiness, and stagnant, stale, stuffy air; poor concentration, loss of attention, increased heart rate and slight nausea may also be present.
>5,000 ppm: This indicates unusual air conditions where high levels of other gases also could be present. Toxicity or oxygen deprivation could occur. This is the permissible exposure limit for daily workplace exposures.
>40,000 ppm: This level is immediately harmful due to oxygen deprivation.


Melting ice caps and mountain glaciers, coastal areas under water, stronger storms, spieceis of animals dying off.... absolutely zero problems there brought on by rising CO2 levels.


Ice caps are NOT melting. Arctic ice is still near normal, even though we were told ten years ago that the arctic would be ice free by now. Antarctic ice is ABOVE normal, contrary to the warmists models.

Sea level rise began in the 1700s, as we came out of the little ice age.

Animal species are not dying off at any rate greater than history.

NO weather events can be connected to alleged warming.

So no, we don't have a problem.


You have any peer reviewed studies to back any of that up?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
tommy1808
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:24 am

mham001 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
It does not just matter how many jobs there are, it also matters where they are created. Renewable energy jobs are usually close to where power is created, fossil energy jobs are often in Saudi Arabia. I gladly unemploy 1000 people there to have 500 more people employed here.


Not in my country..


How much of the equipment and consumables used in your domestic fuel industry are made in the US? Pipeline steel? Pumps?

Your country has more jobs in Solar power than in all fossil fuel power plants combined, or in your whole natural gas industry http://fortune.com/2017/02/07/us-solar-jobs-2016/

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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Dutchy
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:49 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
Everyone does know life on Earth existed BEFORE humans? We’ve been here a tiny portion of geologic history and mammalian life I’d not going away anytime soon.


Yes it did, so the question is indeed not if the earth will survive, it will, the question is if humans can adapt and survive in large numbers and continue the way of life.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
When I see politicians actually changing their personal behaviors, I’m looking at you Democrats, stop going to conferences in Davos, live in less extravagant homes, stop with the limos, I’ll listen. They have a vested interest in climate change, it will greatly expand thier powers and control over the citizens—that’s a feature of climate change. As one pol said, “never let a crisis go to waste”. A Chicago Democrat, of course.


GF


:roll: Get your own solar panels with a power pack and go off grid. You show those pesky Democrats. This isn't a political issue, or it shouldn't be.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:57 am

AirFiero wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
AirFiero wrote:

Club of Rome, aren't they the ones who want to eliminate 90% of human population?? Yeah, I suppose that would solve the alleged human caused warming.


:roll: can't take your comments seriously.


Like most global warming sheep, you simply can't handle any discussion or debate that disagrees with what you've been conditioned to think.


You come here with a conspiracy theory, how can I take you seriously? If you come with serious points, no problem, I might even change my point of view, but come with nonsense and ad hominems, I can't have any meaningful discussion with you. So it is up to you.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:03 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
It's like saying the US should restrict plastic bag/straw/bottle use, because 80% of plastic waste in the oceans come from elsewhere.


So you are saying that Americans produce 20% of the plastic soup with 5% of the people? Yeah I would say that America has to do something, the same with energy, they use vastly more of the carbon per capita so indeed they should do something. Good catch man, well done.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:13 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
In 2007, IPCC said we had 8 years left, in 2018 they said 12 years. More scare mongering. If you want to go back to the 70s, we were all supposed to be stricken with starvation by said the population experts of the day. In 1973, fossil fuels were going run out by 1979. Of course, we were supposed to run out of petroleum in the next ten years since they were first discovered for modern uses in the 1800s. I had a friend who was a UAL captain tell me in no uncertain terms jet fuel would run out by July 1979; that fact was “inescapable”. Lord Kelvin, the preeminent scientist of his time said, in 1903, “heavier than air flight was impossible”.

I lived long enough to have healthy skepticism of “experts” especially when they are predicting the future. Don’t believe anything I hear and only half of what I see. Treat sacred objects with deep caution. Climate change has a lot in common with medieval religion; “believe us, the anointed, it’s too much for you deplorables”. The GND is a society wide “indulgence” paid to prevent hell on Earth—rising waters (Obama stopped that); disappearing cities going underwater. It’s warmed before (Roman and Middle Age Warm Periods); cooled before and its changing again. Adapt.

GF


Pfffff so we should distrust experts because of what?

So you are at least 65years old, probably quite a bit older. So you will not see the results if you are wrong, quite an easy position to be in. Adapting, right. Have you looked at the map I supplied you? How do you adapt to that without massive disruptions? So is it worth the risk, perhaps for you yes, because you can continue your way of life, without seeing the consequences? Perhaps you have grandchildren? Perhaps they may inherit a habitable planet, just like you did?

These children believe we should do more because they want to have a habitable planet. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47070853
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:23 am

Dutchy wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
It's like saying the US should restrict plastic bag/straw/bottle use, because 80% of plastic waste in the oceans come from elsewhere.


So you are saying that Americans produce 20% of the plastic soup with 5% of the people? Yeah I would say that America has to do something, the same with energy, they use vastly more of the carbon per capita so indeed they should do something. Good catch man, well done.


Well, I don;t live near the ocean, so I guess those living along the coasts will be asked to take up the slack. But that's thing... Indonesia is not going to take up any slack.. Are you suggesting we pull back to make up for the 3rd world's inability to pull back their plastic getting into the oceans??
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
seb146
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:31 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
It's like saying the US should restrict plastic bag/straw/bottle use, because 80% of plastic waste in the oceans come from elsewhere.


So you are saying that Americans produce 20% of the plastic soup with 5% of the people? Yeah I would say that America has to do something, the same with energy, they use vastly more of the carbon per capita so indeed they should do something. Good catch man, well done.


Well, I don;t live near the ocean, so I guess those living along the coasts will be asked to take up the slack. But that's thing... Indonesia is not going to take up any slack.. Are you suggesting we pull back to make up for the 3rd world's inability to pull back their plastic getting into the oceans??


So you want what we have now? States like AL, MS, KS, KY take and take and expect states like MA and CA and NY to pay because "it's not my fault"?

Even if a majority of people change and work toward polluting less, that is better than "screw everyone, me first" that you are suggesting, direct.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Dutchy
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:39 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
It's like saying the US should restrict plastic bag/straw/bottle use, because 80% of plastic waste in the oceans come from elsewhere.


So you are saying that Americans produce 20% of the plastic soup with 5% of the people? Yeah I would say that America has to do something, the same with energy, they use vastly more of the carbon per capita so indeed they should do something. Good catch man, well done.


Well, I don;t live near the ocean, so I guess those living along the coasts will be asked to take up the slack. But that's thing... Indonesia is not going to take up any slack.. Are you suggesting we pull back to make up for the 3rd world's inability to pull back their plastic getting into the oceans??


So because we can't get rid of child labor everywhere, it is ok to have it? E.g. the lowest standard is the standard we have to comply with?

BTW you probably know that in the end, everything ends up in the ocean.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
AirFiero
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:32 pm

Dutchy wrote:
AirFiero wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

:roll: can't take your comments seriously.


Like most global warming sheep, you simply can't handle any discussion or debate that disagrees with what you've been conditioned to think.


You come here with a conspiracy theory, how can I take you seriously? If you come with serious points, no problem, I might even change my point of view, but come with nonsense and ad hominems, I can't have any meaningful discussion with you. So it is up to you.


I have tried to be polite with you, I presented points with links, YOU do insults repeatedly and accuse me. I won't waste my time with you.
 
mham001
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:42 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
mham001 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
It does not just matter how many jobs there are, it also matters where they are created. Renewable energy jobs are usually close to where power is created, fossil energy jobs are often in Saudi Arabia. I gladly unemploy 1000 people there to have 500 more people employed here.


Not in my country..


How much of the equipment and consumables used in your domestic fuel industry are made in the US? Pipeline steel? Pumps?

Your country has more jobs in Solar power than in all fossil fuel power plants combined, or in your whole natural gas industry http://fortune.com/2017/02/07/us-solar-jobs-2016/

Best regards
Thomas


As usual, your assertions about my country, which are sourced from nothing more than some article you read on the internet, and then deceptively presented here, (power plants vs total industry) are wrong.

The article you presented to back up your original claim about US energy employment numbers proves it. "the fossil fuel industry—which includes an array of direct and indirect jobs related to exploration, excavation, construction, and well surveying—still employs millions of people. "

Interestingly, just this morning I was reading about the continued growth of the US oil industry and its foreign sales. It appears several European countries are replacing (primarily) Russian and Iranian oil with WTI. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-oil- ... SKCN1Q019W

ImageImage

“U.S. crude is a real headache. It puts a lot of pressure on regional light grades. In fact, prices for all grades are affected because it is such a significant extra supply,” said a trader with a European trader selling Russian oil.

Pressure will likely only increase as for 2019 U.S. crude oil production is expected to average 12.06 million bpd, up 1.18 million bpd from last year, according to U.S. government.


The positive foreign policy implications cannot be overstated. You can thank American technology for the help in reliving yourself of dependence on a man you pretend to loathe.
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 789
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Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:06 pm

When I was really really young, a big issue was "Acid Rain" in Europe: due to extreme amounts of sulfur oxides spewed into the air, the rain had turned acidic and was ruining medieval buildings like cathedrals and overall creating an unhealthy atmosphere. Something was done about it and nowadays there is no such things as "Acid Rain" anymore.
Similar story with the "Ozone Hole". Remember that crisis? We would all burn to death. Guess what, the problem was addressed, the culprits (freons) were banned and nowadays you don't hear about the "Ozone Hole" anymore.

Not sure why "Climate Change" is any different.
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 7560
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:20 pm

AirFiero wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
AirFiero wrote:

Like most global warming sheep, you simply can't handle any discussion or debate that disagrees with what you've been conditioned to think.


You come here with a conspiracy theory, how can I take you seriously? If you come with serious points, no problem, I might even change my point of view, but come with nonsense and ad hominems, I can't have any meaningful discussion with you. So it is up to you.


I have tried to be polite with you, I presented points with links, YOU do insults repeatedly and accuse me. I won't waste my time with you.



Well if you do comments like: "Club of Rome, aren't they the ones who want to eliminate 90% of human population?? Yeah, I suppose that would solve the alleged human caused warming." then yes, you get a comment like that. But how can I take this seriously? You are attacking the source, not the content and attacking the source with a conspiracy theory.

This is a serious thing, I do not want to debate science with you, neither you nor I, are climate scientists, so this let this debate for the professionals and there is a consensus. So based on that, I would urge humanity to act now and move towards a green future. I can't think of a single reason not to move towards a green future.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 7560
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: U.S. Politicians propose Green-New-Deal. Air Travel to Become Unnecessary

Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:21 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
When I was really really young, a big issue was "Acid Rain" in Europe: due to extreme amounts of sulfur oxides spewed into the air, the rain had turned acidic and was ruining medieval buildings like cathedrals and overall creating an unhealthy atmosphere. Something was done about it and nowadays there is no such things as "Acid Rain" anymore.
Similar story with the "Ozone Hole". Remember that crisis? We would all burn to death. Guess what, the problem was addressed, the culprits (freons) were banned and nowadays you don't hear about the "Ozone Hole" anymore.

Not sure why "Climate Change" is any different.


:checkmark: we can do this, if the political will is there.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
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