2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:54 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
Would you agree that all people in all jobs everywhere should be prepared for the possibility of losing that job?

Face it, it was a bad attempt at victim-blaming to get some of the dirt off Trump, whom you believe to be acting prudently by putting all the folks out of work.

Your personal jabs aside, this is a discussion of furloughs, not terminations. I do not believe that anyone is going to be terminated here. I'm trying to keep the discussion to the topic at hand.

I know that you are only thinking on a single plane, so let me burst that limitation for you.

Two things can be true at once:
1) A prudent federal employee ought to prepare for the possibility of a furlough.
2) It can be very unfortunate that federal employees have to go through a furlough.


You're just finding ways to downplay the negatives of the shutdown. Tell you what, why don't you go door to door and tell all the struggling furloughed employees that they should have been more prepared. Perhaps ATCSunDevil would appreciate hearing your take on his $0 paycheck this week.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:55 pm

Tugger wrote:
Can you confirm that you prefer proper barriers and not a 30 foot wall?

I prefer whatever the Department of Homeland Security determines is the best and most effective form of barrier. Common sense tells me that a wall is more effective than a fence, but I can't say that I have undertaken any sort of intensive research on that issue.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:57 pm

2122M wrote:
You're just finding ways to downplay the negatives of the shutdown. Tell you what, why don't you go door to door and tell all the struggling furloughed employees that they should have been more prepared.

I'd be very happy to counsel a federal employee on steps they can take to prepare for these types of events. It may be too late for this shutdown, but it could save a lot of pain in the future.

I wouldn't be judgmental, as you suggest. That's just not in my nature - and you can't turn back time.

If there is going to be less pain in the future, it's important to be honest about what should be done to prevent that pain. Shutdowns have been a fixture of modern politics. Therefore, some preparation makes a lot of sense.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:00 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
You're just finding ways to downplay the negatives of the shutdown. Tell you what, why don't you go door to door and tell all the struggling furloughed employees that they should have been more prepared.

I'd be very happy to counsel a federal employee on steps they can take to prepare for these types of events. It may be too late for this shutdown, but it could save a lot of pain in the future.

I wouldn't be judgmental, as you suggest. That's just not in my nature - and you can't turn back time.


Hate to break it to you, but by blaming them if they are not prepared for this shutdown (as you did above), you are already being judgmental.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:02 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
.. no federal employee can claim that they (shutdowns) are a surprise. A prudent employee would take precautions in the event that a shutdown happens since the risk is known.


To refresh your judgmental memory.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:03 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Hate to break it to you, but by blaming them if they are not prepared for this shutdown (as you did above), you are already being judgmental.

I get it. You think it is stupid to suggest to federal employees that they should think about preparing for the possibility of a shutdown. You WANT them to have pain because you want them to hate Trump. Their pain is your political sustenance. Their pain drives your agenda.

We will just have to agree to disagree on that one.
Last edited by VTKillarney on Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:05 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
.. no federal employee can claim that they (shutdowns) are a surprise. A prudent employee would take precautions in the event that a shutdown happens since the risk is known.


To refresh your judgmental memory.

Where did I judge anyone there? All I said is that a prudent employee would take precautions. That is a fact - it's not a judgment, at least in the negative sense. I stand by that comment 100%.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:07 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Hate to break it to you, but by blaming them if they are not prepared for this shutdown (as you did above), you are already being judgmental.

I get it. You think it is stupid to suggest to federal employees that they should think about preparing for the possibility of a shutdown. You WANT them to have pain because you want them to hate Trump. Their pain is your political sustenance.

We will just have to agree to disagree on that one.


You are suggesting that government employees should have a second job? Maybe if you work for the government you'd better never go an vacation because that money may come in handy next time Trump doesn't get his way. Perhaps your VTK's guide to being a "prudent" federal employee should come with condoms, because after all, kids are expensive.....

Give me a break....
Last edited by 2122M on Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:07 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
.. no federal employee can claim that they (shutdowns) are a surprise. A prudent employee would take precautions in the event that a shutdown happens since the risk is known.


To refresh your judgmental memory.

Where did I judge anyone there? All I said is that a prudent employee would take precautions. That is a fact - it's not a judgment, at least in the negative sense. I stand by that comment 100%.


so anyone facing hardship as a result of this shutdown was not a 'prudent' employee. Got it.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:09 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
You are suggesting that government employees should have a second job?

Okay, we are going to start keeping a count of when you attribute to me what you WANT me to say rather than what I actually said. Just to be generous, we will start the count here: 1.

I never suggested that federal employees should have a second job. I can think of numerous ways in which they can prepare for the possibility of a shutdown without having a second job. You can too.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:11 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
You are suggesting that government employees should have a second job?

Okay, we are going to start keeping a count of when you attribute to me what you WANT me to say rather than what I actually said. Just to be generous, we will start the count here: 1.

I never suggested that federal employees should have a second job. I can think of numerous ways in which they can prepare for the possibility of a shutdown without having a second job. You can too.


Sure can. They can vote for someone level headed as president in the future. You know, someone who won't treat their livelihoods like pawns for his or her ego.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:11 pm

2122M wrote:
so anyone facing hardship as a result of this shutdown was not a 'prudent' employee. Got it.

As a general proposition, yes. I don't know everyone's personal situation, but, generally speaking, if you are a federal employee who knows that shutdowns happen and you are in trouble on the first day of a missed paycheck, you were not prudent. Wanting to see people be prudent in order to avoid pain used to be considered a good idea. I guess liberals just love people's unnecessary pain.
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:13 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
so anyone facing hardship as a result of this shutdown was not a 'prudent' employee. Got it.

As a general proposition, yes. I don't know everyone's personal situation, but, generally speaking, if you are a federal employee who knows that shutdowns happen and you are in trouble after just a couple of days of missed paycheck, you were not prudent. Wanting to see people be prudent in order to avoid pain used to be considered a good idea. I guess liberals just love people's unnecessary pain.

Turning it on liberals? They weren't the ones that shut down the government without negotiation.
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:15 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Sure can. They can vote for someone level headed as president in the future. You know, someone who won't treat their livelihoods like pawns for his or her ego.

There were five shutdowns during Jimmy Carter's presidency, so your theory doesn't hold much water.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:16 pm

casinterest wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Turning it on liberals? They weren't the ones that shut down the government without negotiation.

Trump has gone from $20 billion to $5 billion. How much have the Democrats moved off of $0?
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:18 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Can you confirm that you prefer proper barriers and not a 30 foot wall?

I prefer whatever the Department of Homeland Security determines is the best and most effective form of barrier. Common sense tells me that a wall is more effective than a fence, but I can't say that I have undertaken any sort of intensive research on that issue.

Well there is a cop-out. Not surprised. Common sense tells me that a barrier is more effective than wall.

But of course now we have to define "a wall" vs a barrier.
This is a wall: Image

This is a barrier (which has been proven to be effective in San Diego and along other portions of the border):Image

Tugg
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Productivity isn’t about getting more things done, rather it’s about getting the right things done, while doing less. - M. Oshin
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:21 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Turning it on liberals? They weren't the ones that shut down the government without negotiation.

Trump has gone from $20 billion to $5 billion. How much have the Democrats moved off of $0?


1.9 Billion in December. It would have passed and had support from both sides. Trump said no.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:21 pm

Tugg,

My understanding is that the see-through steel beam structure is what Trump is proposing. When I say "wall," I am referring to that. There is no point in referring to something that isn't even being contemplated.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:22 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Sure can. They can vote for someone level headed as president in the future. You know, someone who won't treat their livelihoods like pawns for his or her ego.

There were five shutdowns during Jimmy Carter's presidency, so your theory doesn't hold much water.


Lies again. There were 6 Federal funding gaps. Only one of which resulted in a shutdown. Care to guess how long that shutdown was?? Care to guess how many paychecks were missed?? Care to reseach how many employees were furloughed?
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:24 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Trump has gone from $20 billion to $5 billion. How much have the Democrats moved off of $0?


1.9 Billion in December. It would have passed and had support from both sides. Trump said no.

Okay. So Trump has moved $15 billion. The Democrats have moved $2 billion.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:25 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:

There were five shutdowns during Jimmy Carter's presidency, so your theory doesn't hold much water.


Lies again. There were 6 Federal funding gaps. Only one of which resulted in a shutdown. Care to guess how long that shutdown was?? Care to guess how many paychecks were missed?? Care to reseach how many employees were furloughed?

Hmm... You should probably contact the editors of this website if you are going to accuse them of being liars:
https://www.thoughtco.com/government-sh ... ry-3368274
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:26 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Trump has gone from $20 billion to $5 billion. How much have the Democrats moved off of $0?


1.9 Billion in December. It would have passed and had support from both sides. Trump said no.

Okay. So Trump has moved $15 billion. The Democrats have moved $2 billion.


I can go into a Ferrari dealership and offer $10,000 for a brand new Ferrari that costs $350,000. They'll say no. If I up my offer to $100,000 and they drop their offer to $340,000, I will have gone up $90,000 and they will only have come down $10,000. Does that make my offer the more reasonable one?
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:28 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
Turning it on liberals? They weren't the ones that shut down the government without negotiation.

Trump has gone from $20 billion to $5 billion. How much have the Democrats moved off of $0?

Trump hasn't moved crap for DACA.
So no, his little manufactured emergency is nothing but a lie. Because if it was a TRUE emergency, he wouldn't have moved 20 to 5.
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2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:28 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
There were five shutdowns during Jimmy Carter's presidency, so your theory doesn't hold much water.


Lies again. There were 6 Federal funding gaps. Only one of which resulted in a shutdown. Care to guess how long that shutdown was?? Care to guess how many paychecks were missed?? Care to reseach how many employees were furloughed?

Hmm... You should probably contact the editors of this website if you are going to accuse them of being liars:
https://www.thoughtco.com/government-sh ... ry-3368274

Happily.

In the meantime, did you find out may many furloughs there were during those 'shutdowns'? How many employees missed a paycheck?
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:29 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:

1.9 Billion in December. It would have passed and had support from both sides. Trump said no.

Okay. So Trump has moved $15 billion. The Democrats have moved $2 billion.


I can go into a Ferrari dealership and offer $10,000 for a brand new Ferrari that costs $350,000. They'll say no. If I up my offer to $100,000 and they drop their offer to $340,000, I will have gone up $90,000 and they will only have come down $10,000. Does that make my offer the more reasonable one?

Well, since $20 billion wouldn't come close to paying for a wall along the entirety of the border, your analogy isn't terribly persuasive. Trump's offer has been reasonable from the very beginning rather than the joke offer that you are suggesting.

Actually, you bring up a good point. Trump already came down a long way when he was asking for $20 billion. He's been even more reasonable than I was giving him credit for. Thanks for pointing that out!
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:31 pm

2122M wrote:
In the meantime, did you find out may many furloughs there were during those 'shutdowns'? How many employees missed a paycheck?

Look, I get it. You will argue until the cows come home that it is not prudent for federal employees to take precautions against the possibility of a shutdown.

We disagree on that. You aren't going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours. Getting lost in the weeds isn't helping anyone.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:32 pm

casinterest wrote:
Trump hasn't moved crap for DACA.

The shutdown isn't over DACA. Even Pelosi and Schumer admit that.

So when it comes to the actual reason for the shutdown, Trump has moved WAAAAAY more than the Democrats have.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:32 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
In the meantime, did you find out may many furloughs there were during those 'shutdowns'? How many employees missed a paycheck?

Look, I get it. You will argue until the cows come home that it is not prudent for federal employees to take precautions against the possibility of a shutdown.

We disagree on that. You aren't going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours. Getting lost in the weeds isn't helping anyone.


I'll take that as a concession on the 'Carter Shutdowns'....
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:34 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
In the meantime, did you find out may many furloughs there were during those 'shutdowns'? How many employees missed a paycheck?

Look, I get it. You will argue until the cows come home that it is not prudent for federal employees to take precautions against the possibility of a shutdown.

We disagree on that. You aren't going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours. Getting lost in the weeds isn't helping anyone.


I'll take that as a concession on the 'Carter Shutdowns'....

If it makes you feel better, by all means go ahead and do so. Or you could read what I actually wrote, which was that I don't want to get lost in the weeds here. There could have been NO Carter shutdowns and my advice would still apply.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:35 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Trump hasn't moved crap for DACA.

The shutdown isn't over DACA. Even Pelosi and Schumer admit that.

So when it comes to the actual reason for the shutdown, Trump has moved WAAAAAY more than the Democrats have.


It's amazing how far Trump can move from his Way out lying racist claims, to a little closer in lying racist claims isn't it ? Every con can move their offers quite a bit when they offer crap to start with.
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2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:37 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
There could have been NO Carter shutdowns and my victim blaming would still apply.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:37 pm

casinterest wrote:
It's amazing how far Trump can move from his Way out lying racist claims, to a little closer in lying racist claims isn't it ? Every con can move their offers quite a bit when they offer crap to start with.

Look. I know this bothers you. But the simple reality is that Trump has moved WAAAAAY more than the Democrats have when it comes to this impass. The numbers don't lie.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:40 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
There could have been NO Carter shutdowns and my victim blaming would still apply.

I get it. You do not believe that it is prudent for a federal employee to prepare for the possibility of a shutdown. You've made that VERY clear.

We disagree. Let's move on.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:40 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
It's amazing how far Trump can move from his Way out lying racist claims, to a little closer in lying racist claims isn't it ? Every con can move their offers quite a bit when they offer crap to start with.

Look. I know this bothers you. But the simple reality is that Trump has moved WAAAAAY more than the Democrats have when it comes to this impass. The numbers don't lie.


HAHAHHAAHA, Oh man. Then why do we need more wall if illegal immigration is going down at the border?
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ltbewr
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:40 pm

Civil and some criminal court proceedings will come to a halt soon without funding. Even Mueller's investigations as some involve a Grand Jury, court hearings including sentencing and arraignments may have to be suspended. It will mean losses to litigants, criminals in jails a lot longer even if innocent. Justice delayed is justice denied. Then again, them may be part of Trump's plan, to delay civil and criminal actions on him personally and to his 'friends'.
 
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:41 pm

casinterest wrote:
HAHAHHAAHA, Oh man. Then why do we need more wall if illegal immigration is going down at the border?

Because it is still too high.

Next question.
Last edited by VTKillarney on Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:44 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
HAHAHHAAHA, Oh man. Then why do we need more wall if illegal immigration is going down at the border?

Because it is still extremely high.

Image

Next question.


That is total illegal immigrants, not border crossings. Visa overstays are up, border crossings are down. You chart is useless in this debate about a border wall.
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:44 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
HAHAHHAAHA, Oh man. Then why do we need more wall if illegal immigration is going down at the border?

Because it is still extremely high.

Image

Next question.


The image is of immigrants already in the country. Not those crossing the border.

So next question , why are funds of a wall on the border any help for that?
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:46 pm

2122M wrote:
That is total illegal immigrants, not border crossings. Visa overstays are up, border crossings are down. You chart is useless in this debate about a border wall.

Fair enough. I edited my post.
 
2122M
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:49 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
That is total illegal immigrants, not border crossings. Visa overstays are up, border crossings are down. You chart is useless in this debate about a border wall.

Fair enough. I edited my post.


https://www.npr.org/2017/12/05/56854638 ... 6-year-low

Where's the crisis?
 
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trpmb6
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:10 pm

Total crossing are down but the type of crossings has changed though. Never before have we had organized caravans.

(In this case I'm just adding a distinction to this discussion, I'm not trying to discuss the merits of the caravans or their asylum seeking claims)
 
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trpmb6
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:11 pm

To that end,

How do you all feel about the proposal that was floated with changing our aslyum application process and providing individuals with the ability to apply from within their own country? (via our embassies - obviously this would require staffing changes and added costs)
 
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casinterest
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:12 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Total crossing are down but the type of crossings has changed though. Never before have we had organized caravans.

(In this case I'm just adding a distinction to this discussion, I'm not trying to discuss the merits of the caravans or their asylum seeking claims)

The Organized Caravans are going to known border crossings. if Anything we need more people for processing, not walls.
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VTKillarney
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:42 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Total crossing are down but the type of crossings has changed though. Never before have we had organized caravans.

(In this case I'm just adding a distinction to this discussion, I'm not trying to discuss the merits of the caravans or their asylum seeking claims)

They seem to be a regular occurrence.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEK ... id=US%3Aen
 
bob75013
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:05 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:

To refresh your judgmental memory.

Where did I judge anyone there? All I said is that a prudent employee would take precautions. That is a fact - it's not a judgment, at least in the negative sense. I stand by that comment 100%.


so anyone facing hardship as a result of this shutdown was not a 'prudent' employee. Got it.


Fun fact: there have been 21 government shutdowns in the last 42 years. Name ANY other place where they have happened with that frequency.

If you have a job at a place where there's a 50% chance of that happening in any year, why would you not want to be prepared for it?

https://www.thoughtco.com/government-sh ... ry-3368274
 
mham001
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Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:06 pm

casinterest wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
Total crossing are down but the type of crossings has changed though. Never before have we had organized caravans.

(In this case I'm just adding a distinction to this discussion, I'm not trying to discuss the merits of the caravans or their asylum seeking claims)

The Organized Caravans are going to known border crossings. if Anything we need more people for processing, not walls.


When Mexico has already offered them asylum, why should we take them? They already have safe harbor.
 
mham001
Posts: 5130
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:16 pm

I am not quite seeing this "decline". Declining from where?

Image
 
seb146
Posts: 18659
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:05 am

mham001 wrote:
I am not quite seeing this "decline". Declining from where?

Image


https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/08/despite ... order.html
https://www.npr.org/2017/12/05/56854638 ... 6-year-low
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
seb146
Posts: 18659
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:13 am

So if the shutdown over the stupid vanity wall goes on, will the economy collapse? Government employees not being able to buy things like food, pay for rent and health care, pay student loans and credit cards, etc.

A great point I heard on the radio today: if individual #1 declares a national emergency and bypasses the House to steal money for his stupid vanity wall, that means the Democrat elected president in 2020 can declare a national emergency for health care and guns and climate change because "the former president did it" and there will be precedent.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
salttee
Posts: 3024
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: The Shutdown Part 2 - reasons, effects and details

Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:17 am

Kinda off topic but I'll stick this comment here rather than starting a new thread. I was reading an article in The Daily Beast and came across a statement by Kris Kobach a prominent Trumpista.

He said: “I joined the (go fund me wall) organization because its mission is of the highest importance to our country, the wall needs to be completed, and it needs to be done as soon as possible."

Of the highest importance and needs to be done as soon as possible.

What struck me about that is how similar it sounds to how the conservatives have sold wars in my lifetime. It reminds me of Nixon on Vietnam or Bush on Saddam.

Vietnam was never a threat to this country, neither was Saddam. And the wall is also unnecessary.
It's kinda like when I hear a certain cadence from the cons, I know something's up.

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