Capital punishment in the US and Its future

usflyer msp · Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:36 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
I don't believe in the death penalty. The US justice system is just too problematic for me to be ok with it executing people.

That said, if we are going to bother with executions and believe they act as a deterrent (I don't - it is no coincidence that the states with capital punishment also have the highest violent crime rates) then they should be not be sterile, silent deaths but public spectacles. They should be out there burning folks at the stake, guillotining and garroting, hanging, firing squading, drawing and quartering, crossbowing, and poisoning and the public should be able to witness it - that is they only way capital punishment would ever deter someone. It should be like Game of Thrones in the public square.

Let me get this straight. You believe having the death penalty encourages people to murder?

I didn't say that. I just don't think the death penalty deters people from committing violent crimes at all.

TTailedTiger · Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:04 pm

usflyer msp wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
I don't believe in the death penalty. The US justice system is just too problematic for me to be ok with it executing people.

That said, if we are going to bother with executions and believe they act as a deterrent (I don't - it is no coincidence that the states with capital punishment also have the highest violent crime rates) then they should be not be sterile, silent deaths but public spectacles. They should be out there burning folks at the stake, guillotining and garroting, hanging, firing squading, drawing and quartering, crossbowing, and poisoning and the public should be able to witness it - that is they only way capital punishment would ever deter someone. It should be like Game of Thrones in the public square.

Let me get this straight. You believe having the death penalty encourages people to murder?

I didn't say that. I just don't think the death penalty deters people from committing violent crimes at all.

I don't think it does either. I just believe it to be a fitting and more merciful punishment than life without parole.

PPVRA · Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:40 pm

Only in certain cases is it ok, like Tim McVeigh or the Washington DC Sniper cases.

300% certainty of guilt and large scale crimes.

The expense of the process is largely thanks to anti-death penalty activists and an over application to smaller cases.

sccutler · Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:10 am

I'm as "law and order" as you're likely to find, but (as a lawyer) I have seen enough of the vicissitudes of the legal system that I cannot support the death penalty. It is inevitable that there will, from time to time, be an execution of someone wrongfully convicted.

The automatic appeals and procedural protections given those convicted of capital offenses are such that the implementation of the death penalty is unlikely to save the state any money.

It just seems that punishment can take other forms, and still be effective.

Not an easy issue.

Berevoff · Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:37 am

I'm pretty solidly against the way the USA does it but I'm not opposed to it for the most heinous of criminals. I do think they should be seen by the public if they occur. If we're going to do this as a nation we should be aware of what we are doing and people should have to face that.

TTailedTiger · Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:52 am

Berevoff wrote:
I'm pretty solidly against the way the USA does it but I'm not opposed to it for the most heinous of criminals. I do think they should be seen by the public if they occur. If we're going to do this as a nation we should be aware of what we are doing and people should have to face that.

I agree that executions should be public. And with live streaming there is no reason that it shouldn't be. I actually think broadcasting it would strengthen support for capital punishment when the public sees just how calm and peaceful a death that nitrogen will provide.

DocLightning · Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:56 am

In theory, in which we could prove guilt with mathematical certainty with no risk of a false conviction (Type I error) and proceed immediately without costly and time-consuming appeals, I'd support the death penalty.

We do not live in a universe where such conditions are met or would ever be likely to be met. So I can't support it. Others may have more fundamental objections, but we arrive at the same place.

I think that the practical issues are what will wind up killing the death penalty. Perhaps not in one dramatic stroke, but bit by bit, I think that most states will figure out that they don't really benefit from it. But I don't forsee some massive political event that ends it overnight.

scbriml · Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:25 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
I agree that executions should be public. And with live streaming there is no reason that it shouldn't be. I actually think broadcasting it would strengthen support for capital punishment when the public sees just how calm and peaceful a death that nitrogen will provide.

Why not make it a reality-style TV show where the winner gets to be the executioner? Oh man, we have a winner! TV gold.

Meanwhile, half of America has a meltdown when a breast is shown on network TV.

tommy1808 · Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:44 am

Dutchy wrote:
Tugger wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
That is false, you can never be 100% sure, never. So if you are in favor of the death penalty, you automatically take for granted that some innocent people will be executed. If you don't want that, you are automatically against the death penalty.

I am supportive of the death penalty only at certain at times, when facts are known (not "proven"). I am not trying to convince you, just stating my position as I disagree with the blanket statement/justification you are attempting.

What justification? You are attempting to justify being in favor of the death penalty by saying only in the cases of 100% certainty, all I am saying you can never ever be certain, so if you want to race the bar that high, nobody will ever be convicted, thus in practice you are against the death penalty.

Capital punishment is a) premeditated b) not happening in a self defence situation.
It is simply murder carried out by nation states, and everyone involved is simply a murderer. End of story.

Won't be that long until proponents of capital punishment are looked at with the same disgust supporters of slavery are today.

Best regards
Thomas

emperortk · Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:16 am

I find it very amusing that the people most likely to use rhetoric to spread fear about big government intruding into people's lives and who bitch and moan about lazy government bureaucrats, are the very people most likely to have blind faith in the operation of government justice and support tough punishments for crime including the death penalty. Somehow those involved in law enforcement can do no wrong. In fact, several have incorrectly claimed that the US hasn't executed any innocent people since 1976.

What they are really saying, without realizing it, is that government is terrible, that government is inefficient, that government is staffed by incompetents, EXCEPT for when it dispenses justice. It's fascinating that in this view the government can be so inept in all things except prosecuting crimes (and maybe going to war).

Dutchy · Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:59 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Tugger wrote:
I am supportive of the death penalty only at certain at times, when facts are known (not "proven"). I am not trying to convince you, just stating my position as I disagree with the blanket statement/justification you are attempting.

What justification? You are attempting to justify being in favor of the death penalty by saying only in the cases of 100% certainty, all I am saying you can never ever be certain, so if you want to race the bar that high, nobody will ever be convicted, thus in practice you are against the death penalty.

Capital punishment is a) premeditated b) not happening in a self defence situation.
It is simply murder carried out by nation states, and everyone involved is simply a murderer. End of story.

Won't be that long until proponents of capital punishment are looked at with the same disgust supporters of slavery are today.

Best regards
Thomas

Although I am firmly in the camp against the death penalty, I don't think labeling everyone involved in that is a murderer, doesn't help to bridge the cab. In your reasoning is sending someone to prison, kidnapping by a state. I believe we should argue against the institution of the death penalty, many arguments against it, some arguments in favor of the death penalty, in the end the balance is against it.

tommy1808 · Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:14 pm

Dutchy wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

What justification? You are attempting to justify being in favor of the death penalty by saying only in the cases of 100% certainty, all I am saying you can never ever be certain, so if you want to race the bar that high, nobody will ever be convicted, thus in practice you are against the death penalty.

Capital punishment is a) premeditated b) not happening in a self defence situation.
It is simply murder carried out by nation states, and everyone involved is simply a murderer. End of story.

Won't be that long until proponents of capital punishment are looked at with the same disgust supporters of slavery are today.

Best regards
Thomas

Although I am firmly in the camp against the death penalty, I don't think labeling everyone involved in that is a murderer, doesn't help to bridge the cab.

There is no gap and no more room for compromise than on slavery.

In your reasoning is sending someone to prison, kidnapping by a state.

Prison protects the rights of others, capital punishment does not. It is only revenge.

I believe we should argue against the institution of the death penalty, many arguments against it, some arguments in favor of the death penalty, in the end the balance is against it.

I think we should arrest, charge and lock up people involved whenever they step onto our soil. Better today than tomorrow.

Nullum crimen sine lege doesn´t apply for human rights violations, as there always is a universal law in place, and always has been.

best regards
Thomas

TTailedTiger · Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:30 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Capital punishment is a) premeditated b) not happening in a self defence situation.
It is simply murder carried out by nation states, and everyone involved is simply a murderer. End of story.

Won't be that long until proponents of capital punishment are looked at with the same disgust supporters of slavery are today.

Best regards
Thomas

Although I am firmly in the camp against the death penalty, I don't think labeling everyone involved in that is a murderer, doesn't help to bridge the cab.

There is no gap and no more room for compromise than on slavery.

In your reasoning is sending someone to prison, kidnapping by a state.

Prison protects the rights of others, capital punishment does not. It is only revenge.

I believe we should argue against the institution of the death penalty, many arguments against it, some arguments in favor of the death penalty, in the end the balance is against it.

I think we should arrest, charge and lock up people involved whenever they step onto our soil. Better today than tomorrow.

Nullum crimen sine lege doesn´t apply for human rights violations, as there always is a universal law in place, and always has been.

best regards
Thomas

Some prisoners have threatened to kill other inmates unless given the death penalty. Several have kept their word and done just that. Why are you in favor of needlessly putting lives at risk?

Dutchy · Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:47 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Some prisoners have threatened to kill other inmates unless given the death penalty. Several have kept their word and done just that. Why are you in favor of needlessly putting lives at risk?

Pfff, nice rhetoric trick. Make sure your inmates are save and make your prisons more humane so that this doesn't happen. If you lock someone in prison, then it is the responsibility of the prison/government to guarantee their safety. Why are you in favor of caving in to blackmail?

TTailedTiger · Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:02 pm

Dutchy wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Some prisoners have threatened to kill other inmates unless given the death penalty. Several have kept their word and done just that. Why are you in favor of needlessly putting lives at risk?

Pfff, nice rhetoric trick. Make sure your inmates are save and make your prisons more humane so that this doesn't happen. If you lock someone in prison, then it is the responsibility of the prison/government to guarantee their safety. Why are you in favor of caving in to blackmail?

Former US Supreme Court judge Kennedy says that solitary confinement is cruel and unusual and he was hoping a case would have come before him. And if you are in favor of euthanasia then you should support a prisoner'ss desire to be executed. Your country forcefully held down an old lady and asked her children to help restrain her while they euthanized her. You don't have a problem with that but you have an issue with executing a murderer?

salttee · Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:07 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Some prisoners have threatened to kill other inmates unless given the death penalty. Several have kept their word and done just that. Why are you in favor of needlessly putting lives at risk?

That is possibly the most absurd argument I've ever seen on the internet.

Do you ever question what you're doing with your life?

TTailedTiger · Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:10 pm

salttee wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Some prisoners have threatened to kill other inmates unless given the death penalty. Several have kept their word and done just that. Why are you in favor of needlessly putting lives at risk?

That is possibly the most absurd argument I've ever seen on the internet.

Do you ever question what you're doing with your life?

Argument? It has actually happened. Google Wayne Doty.

I can provide more examples if you wish.

Dutchy · Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:12 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
Former US Supreme Court judge Kennedy says that solitary confinement is cruel and unusual and he was hoping a case would have come before him. And you are in favor of euthanasia then you should support a prisoners desire to be executed. Your country forcefully held down an old lady and asked her children to help restrain her while they euthanized her. You don't have a problem with that but you have an issue with executing a murderer?

I agree with Kennedy, that is cruel punishment, where did I say that I was in favor of solitary confinement? Or was that a rhetoric trick again?

Are you seriously comparing euthanasia with execution? Man, you know you have lost a debate when you start comparing the extremes...........

tommy1808 · Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:12 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
salttee wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Some prisoners have threatened to kill other inmates unless given the death penalty. Several have kept their word and done just that. Why are you in favor of needlessly putting lives at risk?

That is possibly the most absurd argument I've ever seen on the internet.

Do you ever question what you're doing with your life?

Argument? It has actually happened. Google Wayne Doty.

I can provide more examples if you wish.

Do you have one of a person being right in its head? This guy requested the chair after all over being put to sleep....

Dutchy wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
Former US Supreme Court judge Kennedy says that solitary confinement is cruel and unusual and he was hoping a case would have come before him. And you are in favor of euthanasia then you should support a prisoners desire to be executed. Your country forcefully held down an old lady and asked her children to help restrain her while they euthanized her. You don't have a problem with that but you have an issue with executing a murderer?

I agree with Kennedy, that is cruel punishment, where did I say that I was in favor of solitary confinement? Or was that a rhetoric trick again?

Are you seriously comparing euthanasia with execution? Man, you know you have lost a debate when you start comparing the extremes...........

Well, last time I checked the supreme court didn't declare solitary confinement unconstitutional.... so it is apparently not always cruel.

Proponents of murder will always find justifications, just ask any run of the mill ISIS supporter....

Best regards
Thomas

moo · Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:43 am

tommy1808 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
salttee wrote:
That is possibly the most absurd argument I've ever seen on the internet.

Do you ever question what you're doing with your life?

Argument? It has actually happened. Google Wayne Doty.

I can provide more examples if you wish.

Do you have one of a person being right in its head? This guy requested the chair after all over being put to sleep....

Best regards
Thomas

I wouldn't want to be executed by the cocktail of drugs US states currently use - there's lots of evidence to suggest that it causes a slow and painful death, not the quick "goes to sleep, stops the heart" that people think. The chair is pretty quick - quick and painful over slow and painful any day of the week.

US states have had to switch the cocktail because their only supplies of the effective drugs were from other countries, which refused to sell them to the US recently, so they had to find alternative ways of killing their death row inmates.

TTailedTiger · Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:54 am

moo wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Argument? It has actually happened. Google Wayne Doty.

I can provide more examples if you wish.

Do you have one of a person being right in its head? This guy requested the chair after all over being put to sleep....

Best regards
Thomas

I wouldn't want to be executed by the cocktail of drugs US states currently use - there's lots of evidence to suggest that it causes a slow and painful death, not the quick "goes to sleep, stops the heart" that people think. The chair is pretty quick - quick and painful over slow and painful any day of the week.

US states have had to switch the cocktail because their only supplies of the effective drugs were from other countries, which refused to sell them to the US recently, so they had to find alternative ways of killing their death row inmates.

The chair might be quick in the off chance that it works properly. Otherwise you might just get burned to death.

I like the helium and nitrogen protocol that some states are switching too. Send them out giggling.

tommy1808 · Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:05 am

moo wrote:
US states have had to switch the cocktail because their only supplies of the effective drugs were from other countries, which refused to sell them to the US recently, so they had to find alternative ways of killing their death row inmates.

That was before Pharmaceutical companies realized that supporting murder may not be such a good idea.

The US could just stop murdering people. Problem solved.

TTailedTiger wrote:
I like the helium and nitrogen protocol that some states are switching too. Send them out giggling.

Even painless it is still murder.

best regards
Thomas

TTailedTiger · Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:00 am

tommy1808 wrote:
moo wrote:
US states have had to switch the cocktail because their only supplies of the effective drugs were from other countries, which refused to sell them to the US recently, so they had to find alternative ways of killing their death row inmates.

That was before Pharmaceutical companies realized that supporting murder may not be such a good idea.

The US could just stop murdering people. Problem solved.

TTailedTiger wrote:
I like the helium and nitrogen protocol that some states are switching too. Send them out giggling.

Even painless it is still murder.

best regards
Thomas

I notice that you haven't proposed that people should just stop killing each other. That would definitely render the death penalty useless.

tommy1808 · Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:26 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
I notice that you haven't proposed that people should just stop killing each other. That would definitely render the death penalty useless.

the fish stinks from the head, as long as governments think murder is just peachy, every other murder can assume the same.

However, death penalty is already useless and only exists because there are still some backwater countries where state sponsored murder is still acceptable. It is no accident that almost all of them are dictatorships.

best regards
Thomas

salttee · Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:20 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
salttee wrote:
That is possibly the most absurd argument I've ever seen on the internet.
Do you ever question what you're doing with your life?

Argument? It has actually happened. Google Wayne Doty.
I can provide more examples if you wish.

Do you have one of a person being right in its head? This guy requested the chair after all over being put to sleep....

You don't even have go so far as to ask that question. The inside of the US prison system is a cacophony of insanity, violence and let's say poor decision making. Prisoners are murdered on a daily basis for looking the wrong way or smiling or frowning or for no reason at all. There is not much rational cause and effect taking place among the prison population outside of the gang management of affairs, if you consider prison gangs rational.

The prison administrations deal with it every day. They cannot alter their policies to accomidate the insanity of their clients or they would lose control in no time.

tommy1808 · Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:28 pm

salttee wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Argument? It has actually happened. Google Wayne Doty.
I can provide more examples if you wish.

Do you have one of a person being right in its head? This guy requested the chair after all over being put to sleep....

You don't even have go so far as to ask that question. The inside of the US prison system is a cacophony of insanity, violence and let's say poor decision making. .

yeah.. i know. Everybody knows. It is the prime example for how fundamentalist large chunks of the US are, i am pretty sure in large part motivated by religion: No one cares about data.

Last time i checked the US "correction" System was about as effective in terms of recidivism rate as a Judge telling the offender "You broke the law, now go home and think about what you did!" ....

But i guess Prison is too good a business...

best regards
Thomas

DL717 · Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:22 am

usflyer msp wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
I don't believe in the death penalty. The US justice system is just too problematic for me to be ok with it executing people.

That said, if we are going to bother with executions and believe they act as a deterrent (I don't - it is no coincidence that the states with capital punishment also have the highest violent crime rates) then they should be not be sterile, silent deaths but public spectacles. They should be out there burning folks at the stake, guillotining and garroting, hanging, firing squading, drawing and quartering, crossbowing, and poisoning and the public should be able to witness it - that is they only way capital punishment would ever deter someone. It should be like Game of Thrones in the public square.

Let me get this straight. You believe having the death penalty encourages people to murder?

I didn't say that. I just don't think the death penalty deters people from committing violent crimes at all.

It’s not used enough and it’s too easy to drag it out in the system. Manson should have been dead years ago.

scbriml · Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:06 am

DL717 wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:

Let me get this straight. You believe having the death penalty encourages people to murder?

I didn't say that. I just don't think the death penalty deters people from committing violent crimes at all.

It’s not used enough and it’s too easy to drag it out in the system. Manson should have been dead years ago.

Shoe on the other foot time - you're wrongly convicted of murder. Still want that quick-fire execution? :scratchchin:

readytotaxi · Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:45 pm

Do I have this right? And l let me know if I don't
Society created prison for people who would not live within the rules of that society, that they had voted for to protect themselves. (trying to keep it simple)

TWA772LR · Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:46 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
moo wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Do you have one of a person being right in its head? This guy requested the chair after all over being put to sleep....

Best regards
Thomas

I wouldn't want to be executed by the cocktail of drugs US states currently use - there's lots of evidence to suggest that it causes a slow and painful death, not the quick "goes to sleep, stops the heart" that people think. The chair is pretty quick - quick and painful over slow and painful any day of the week.

US states have had to switch the cocktail because their only supplies of the effective drugs were from other countries, which refused to sell them to the US recently, so they had to find alternative ways of killing their death row inmates.

The chair might be quick in the off chance that it works properly. Otherwise you might just get burned to death.

I like the helium and nitrogen protocol that some states are switching too. Send them out giggling.

A bullet through the heart and/or brain would be painless too. If I were to be executed I'd prefer firing squad. But then you run in to mental/moral issues on behalf of the person(s) behind the fire arm and possible psychological treatment.

TWA772LR · Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:51 am

Since we're on the topic, what do y'all think about nations serving and carrying out the death penalty to foreign nationals? My home state of Texas has done it before despite decries from the international community. One guy came from Mexico and joined a gang. They kidnapped, raped, and murdered some teenage girls. The guy was captured and given the death penalty despite the UN speaking against it and advocating his extradition to Mexico.

TTailedTiger · Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:25 am

TWA772LR wrote:
TTailedTiger wrote:
moo wrote:

I wouldn't want to be executed by the cocktail of drugs US states currently use - there's lots of evidence to suggest that it causes a slow and painful death, not the quick "goes to sleep, stops the heart" that people think. The chair is pretty quick - quick and painful over slow and painful any day of the week.

US states have had to switch the cocktail because their only supplies of the effective drugs were from other countries, which refused to sell them to the US recently, so they had to find alternative ways of killing their death row inmates.

The chair might be quick in the off chance that it works properly. Otherwise you might just get burned to death.

I like the helium and nitrogen protocol that some states are switching too. Send them out giggling.

A bullet through the heart and/or brain would be painless too. If I were to be executed I'd prefer firing squad. But then you run in to mental/moral issues on behalf of the person(s) behind the fire arm and possible psychological treatment.

I agree that a bullet is efficient and painless. But like you said, it can be messy. I wouldn't want to be the one responsible for preparing the body or cleaning up the mess. I saw the autopsy photos of Ronnie Lee Gardner in a documentary. He had demanded the firing squad in 2010. There was pretty much a crater in his chest from the bullets. Much more damage than I would have thought. But no doubt his death was quick.

TTailedTiger · Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:28 am

TWA772LR wrote:
Since we're on the topic, what do y'all think about nations serving and carrying out the death penalty to foreign nationals? My home state of Texas has done it before despite decries from the international community. One guy came from Mexico and joined a gang. They kidnapped, raped, and murdered some teenage girls. The guy was captured and given the death penalty despite the UN speaking against it and advocating his extradition to Mexico.

I'd say the US is pretty lenient compared to places like Singapore, Malaysia, and Saudi Arabia. It takes very little to wind up in deep trouble in those countries. I know the state of Georgia also executed a British citizen for murder. Don't go someplace and murder one of their citizens if you're not prepared to face the consequences.

Dutchy · Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:24 am

TWA772LR wrote:
Since we're on the topic, what do y'all think about nations serving and carrying out the death penalty to foreign nationals? My home state of Texas has done it before despite decries from the international community. One guy came from Mexico and joined a gang. They kidnapped, raped, and murdered some teenage girls. The guy was captured and given the death penalty despite the UN speaking against it and advocating his extradition to Mexico.

law should be universal.

TTailedTiger · Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:39 pm

Scott Dozier was found hanging in his cell last Saturday. He was pronounced dead just a few minutes later. Dozier had demanded that the state of Nevada move forward with his execution. He was convicted of capital murder and sentenced to death. He admitted he was guilty. Twice the liberals in the state went against his wishes and canceled his execution. He finally took the matter into his own hands because the state was too much of a wimp to carry out the order of the people. I hope he didn't suffer too much in his final moments. Lethal injection would have been much more humane.

scbriml · Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:02 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
Scott Dozier was found hanging in his cell last Saturday. He was pronounced dead just a few minutes later. Dozier had demanded that the state of Nevada move forward with his execution. He was convicted of capital murder and sentenced to death. He admitted he was guilty. Twice the liberals in the state went against his wishes and canceled his execution. He finally took the matter into his own hands because the state was too much of a wimp to carry out the order of the people. I hope he didn't suffer too much in his final moments. Lethal injection would have been much more humane.

Nevada hasn’t executed anyone since early 2006. If he was as desperate to die as you’re suggesting, he took his sweet time to top himself.

Channex757 · Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:05 pm

TTailedTiger wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Since we're on the topic, what do y'all think about nations serving and carrying out the death penalty to foreign nationals? My home state of Texas has done it before despite decries from the international community. One guy came from Mexico and joined a gang. They kidnapped, raped, and murdered some teenage girls. The guy was captured and given the death penalty despite the UN speaking against it and advocating his extradition to Mexico.

I'd say the US is pretty lenient compared to places like Singapore, Malaysia, and Saudi Arabia. It takes very little to wind up in deep trouble in those countries. I know the state of Georgia also executed a British citizen for murder. Don't go someplace and murder one of their citizens if you're not prepared to face the consequences.

On this subject...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-46866941

aviationaware · Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:45 pm

Some people just deserve a slow, painful death. If we can't offer capital punishment for capital crimes anymore, what have we become? Criminal law in the US is too harsh for minor crimes and needs to be toned down, which is currently in the process of happening, but for some specific crimes we need to be able to apply the full force of the law.

Dutchy · Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:03 pm

aviationaware wrote:
Some people just deserve a slow, painful death. If we can't offer capital punishment for capital crimes anymore, what have we become?

Civilized?

aviationaware · Tue Jan 15, 2019 4:51 am

Dutchy wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
Some people just deserve a slow, painful death. If we can't offer capital punishment for capital crimes anymore, what have we become?

Civilized?

I'd call it soft.

DL717 · Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:05 am

sccutler wrote:
I'm as "law and order" as you're likely to find, but (as a lawyer) I have seen enough of the vicissitudes of the legal system that I cannot support the death penalty. It is inevitable that there will, from time to time, be an execution of someone wrongfully convicted.

The automatic appeals and procedural protections given those convicted of capital offenses are such that the implementation of the death penalty is unlikely to save the state any money.

It just seems that punishment can take other forms, and still be effective.

Not an easy issue.

The irony that as technology has progressed in proving guilt or innocence, the application of the penalty for being proven guilty has digressed. Stupid. OJ would be in line for the chair in today’s world where he belongs.

TTailedTiger · Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:12 am

As I stated earlier, I believe in following the Constitution and believe we should use the most humane method of execution. Nitrogen/Helium asphyxiation.

But if it were up to me each death row inmate would be auctioned off to the highest bidder and they would have 10 days to carry out the execution in any way they see fit. The proceeds from the auction would go to the victim's family.

I think that would actually serve as a deterrent. You might think twice about killing someone if you knew you would be auctioned off to some psychopath that would take great pleasure in your torture and death.

Dutchy · Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:31 am

TTailedTiger wrote:
I think that would actually serve as a deterrent. You might think twice about killing someone if you knew you would be auctioned off to some psychopath that would take great pleasure in your torture and death.

It doesn't and talk about uncivilized..........

Quite shocking you actually think like this.

scbriml · Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:06 am

aviationaware wrote:
I'd call it soft.

Most of the civilised World disagrees with you.

aviationaware · Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:26 am

scbriml wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
I'd call it soft.

Most of the civilised World disagrees with you.

Most of the 'civilised' world ist decadent and is in the process of losing their prosperity due to a flawed understanding of tolerance towards islamic culture and being oblivious of the Chinese eating their lunch and getting into position to take their dinner as well.

I prefer not to go under like the Romans did.

scbriml · Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:17 pm

aviationaware wrote:
scbriml wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
I'd call it soft.

Most of the civilised World disagrees with you.

Most of the 'civilised' world ist decadent and is in the process of losing their prosperity due to a flawed understanding of tolerance towards islamic culture and being oblivious of the Chinese eating their lunch and getting into position to take their dinner as well.

I prefer not to go under like the Romans did.

How does state-sponsored murder solve any of that? :shakehead:

aviationaware · Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:50 pm

scbriml wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
scbriml wrote:

Most of the civilised World disagrees with you.

Most of the 'civilised' world ist decadent and is in the process of losing their prosperity due to a flawed understanding of tolerance towards islamic culture and being oblivious of the Chinese eating their lunch and getting into position to take their dinner as well.

I prefer not to go under like the Romans did.

How does state-sponsored murder solve any of that?

Oh it doesn't, but the rejection of capital punishment is a symptom of the same decadence.

Dutchy · Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:02 pm

aviationaware wrote:
scbriml wrote:
aviationaware wrote:

Most of the 'civilised' world ist decadent and is in the process of losing their prosperity due to a flawed understanding of tolerance towards islamic culture and being oblivious of the Chinese eating their lunch and getting into position to take their dinner as well.

I prefer not to go under like the Romans did.

How does state-sponsored murder solve any of that?

Oh it doesn't, but the rejection of capital punishment is a symptom of the same decadence.

Utter rubbish. Decadence has got more to do with pander to every urge, like an eye for an eye feeling

DIRECTFLT · Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:27 am

There are too many persons, particularly minorities, that juries /judges have given the death penalty to, that have been later found innocent, frequently by DNA revelations.

Life without ANY possibility of parole, and Hard Labor seems just for so-called Capital Crimes. We'll see what the Supreme Court allows, as opinions "evolve" during the President's next six years, and the SC appointments he makes during that time.

TTailedTiger · Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:32 am

DIRECTFLT wrote:
There are too many persons, particularly minorities, that juries /judges have given the death penalty to, that have been later found innocent, frequently by DNA revelations.

Life without ANY possibility of parole, and Hard Labor seems just for so-called Capital Crimes. We'll see what the Supreme Court allows, as opinions "evolve" during the President's next six years, and the SC appointments he makes during that time.

Well, judges can't hand out a death sentence or overrule a jury anymore. And now a jury must reach a unanimous decision, not just a majority.

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