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jfklganyc
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Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:36 pm

No offense to Bush or McCain (both nice men) but after seeing coffins hauled across the country to various rotundas for viewing, endless processions, public eulogies and days of cable news coverage ...havent we as Americans moved beyond this in 2018?


We are taught early on that all men are created equal.

And yet, the inequality and hypocrisy of humanity is never on better display than during these state funerals.

Today’s Politicians, that never get north of 50 percent approval ratings while in office, are revered as god-like figures once dead. Opposing party members weep over flag draped coffins. A nation that handed stinging loses to the dead men suddenly has reverence of the highest order to these figures...they line streets and wave flags as fairy tale nations in books had peasants line the streets for royalty long, long ago.

In a nation where nothing seems sacred anymore ...holidays are for shopping, church pews are empty, long established norms are discarded for political correctness, people openly loathe politicans and our news resembles a boxing match...how do we, as Americans and humans, still cling to the pomp, ceremony, glitz, glamor and, most importantly , reverence of the State Funeral?
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:39 pm

Celebrating the life of a former leader of the free world is kind of a big deal.

Furthermore. It's supposed to be an event that reminds us that even our leaders are human. That their families are human. That we are all in this together. It's supposed to be a moment for us all to reflect.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:56 pm

These long multi-funerals are part of US civil religion. If you haven't read anything on the subject Wikipedia (as always LOL) has a good introduction as well as "further reading" . Civil religion has a substantial impact, for good and for bad, on US politics, so is an important subject.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:02 pm

I can't bear to watch such a procession for Obama or Hillary..... I'll just turn off the TV for a week.
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afcjets
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:08 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
And yet, the inequality and hypocrisy of humanity is never on better display than during these state funerals.

Today’s Politicians, that never get north of 50 percent approval ratings while in office, are revered as god-like figures once dead. Opposing party members weep over flag draped coffins. A nation that handed stinging loses to the dead men suddenly has reverence of the highest order to these figures.


trpmb6 wrote:
Celebrating the life of a former leader of the free world is kind of a big deal.

Furthermore. It's supposed to be an event that reminds us that even our leaders are human. That their families are human. That we are all in this together. It's supposed to be a moment for us all to reflect.


Especially when it’s self serving and can be used an opportunity to compare these great men to highlight what a terrible person the current GOP leader is, which a significant portion of the media coverage has been.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:12 pm

One day would have been fine for Bush I. Bush II will be best served with whatever sea burial Bin Laden got--quick and at sea. Trump can just be tossed in a dumpster fire with Jeanine Pirro and Hannity tossed on top of the pyre.
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:12 pm

afcjets wrote:
Especially when it’s self serving and can be used an opportunity to compare these great men to highlight what a terrible person the current GOP leader is, which a significant portion of the media coverage has been.


I was saddened that I couldn't watch much (I tried to listen at least) due to working a lot of OT right now. But some of the commentary was infuriating. Some of the posts on 41's thread in this forum were despicable. People should really be ashamed of themselves to be honest.
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:13 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
One day would have been fine for Bush I. Bush II will be best served with whatever sea burial Bin Laden got. Trump can just be tossed in a dumpster fire with Jeanine Pirro and Hannity tossed on top of the pyre.


Seriously, this kind of post is what gives Non-AV a bad rep among the rest of the forum users.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:20 pm

afcjets wrote:
Especially when it’s self serving and can be used an opportunity to compare these great men to highlight what a terrible person the current GOP leader is, which a significant portion of the media coverage has been.

Anyone that acts with decorum, intelligence, and humility is viewed as an attack on the current GOP leader. It's like books being an attack on Sara Palin. It ain't the books' fault.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
tommy1808
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:23 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
Today’s Politicians, that never get north of 50 percent approval ratings while in office, are revered as god-like figures once dead. Opposing party members weep over flag draped coffins


I would be careful to wish the only bipartisan thing away that the US has left.
I consider him a rather undervalued president. If as many people knew you as people know about him, your funeral would probably get plenty of coverage too. It is not like your average run of the mill celebrity funeral is low key unless deceased and family specifically want it to be. John Lennon would come to mind and Umm Kulthum would make this mourning pale.

Could they do with less theatrics? Sure... But that showmanship is an US virtue, ain't it?

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MaverickM11
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:49 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
One day would have been fine for Bush I. Bush II will be best served with whatever sea burial Bin Laden got. Trump can just be tossed in a dumpster fire with Jeanine Pirro and Hannity tossed on top of the pyre.


Seriously, this kind of post is what gives Non-AV a bad rep among the rest of the forum users.

Darn. I’d think lying your way into an endless war killing thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis would give you a bad name. But if words hurt your feelings I guess there’s that too...
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
NIKV69
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:21 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
No offense to Bush or McCain (both nice men) but after seeing coffins hauled across the country to various rotundas for viewing, endless processions, public eulogies and days of cable news coverage ...havent we as Americans moved beyond this in 2018?




Well your post is full of offense. Both men you referenced gave of themselves for this country and deserved everything they got at their funerals. You get shot down or spend some time in a Viet Cong prison camp and then after spend your life in elected office and we will do the same for you.
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BN747
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:23 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
One day would have been fine for Bush I. Bush II will be best served with whatever sea burial Bin Laden got--quick and at sea. Trump can just be tossed in a dumpster fire with Jeanine Pirro and Hannity tossed on top of the pyre.


:bouncy: :bouncy: :bouncy:



Now that's justice!

BN747
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MaverickM11
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:39 pm

NIKV69 wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
No offense to Bush or McCain (both nice men) but after seeing coffins hauled across the country to various rotundas for viewing, endless processions, public eulogies and days of cable news coverage ...havent we as Americans moved beyond this in 2018?




Well your post is full of offense. Both men you referenced gave of themselves for this country and deserved everything they got at their funerals. You get shot down or spend some time in a Viet Cong prison camp and then after spend your life in elected office and we will do the same for you.

Endlessly maligned and trashed by the GOP establishment following the President's lead? I think anyone sane will pass.
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EstherLouise
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:07 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
Jeanine Pirro


Holy crap. Her name is Jeanine? I've been calling her Judge Judy Pirro for two years.
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seb146
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:51 pm

These long, drawn-out, photo-op state funerals are all for show and part of the American tradition. It does show that, partly, we all end up the same. It also shows the inequality. That some of us will be celebrated and talked about for weeks, while others will be forgotten and not found for weeks.

These grand gestures do prove one thing: we can all be united and bipartisan, even if it is for only for a couple of hours for one event.
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UltimoTiger777
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:08 pm

seb146 wrote:
That some of us will be celebrated and talked about for weeks, while others will be forgotten and not found for weeks.
.


Some people are exons of history and others are not.

This will always the case.
 
stratclub
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:34 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
One day would have been fine for Bush I. Bush II will be best served with whatever sea burial Bin Laden got. Trump can just be tossed in a dumpster fire with Jeanine Pirro and Hannity tossed on top of the pyre.


Seriously, this kind of post is what gives Non-AV a bad rep among the rest of the forum users.

Darn. I’d think lying your way into an endless war killing thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis would give you a bad name. But if words hurt your feelings I guess there’s that too...

Nope, not an impeachable offense. But I guess Slick Willie's conduct in the Oval Office was. I'm really surprised they didn't dig up JFK so he could be censured for his conduct while in office.
 
ltbewr
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:40 pm

It isn't just the USA, other major world leaders or former ones as well as royalty get huge public funerals. Recall the week of viewings and services for the UK's Queen Mother (I was in London when part of it occurred). I was 8 when JFK was assassinated and the subsequent days of mourning and it was needed. When the current UK Queen Elizabeth II dies, it will be a show lasting 2+ weeks and with likely serious negative economic effects.
What bothered me most about the GWH Bush funeral was the closing of the Federal Government including the Post Office on Wednesday. While I could understand it for DC due to security and logistics, outside of DC it should have been normal. Sadly it was much more about politics, in particular by President Trump to do the closings.
 
Ken777
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:52 pm

Bush I was, IMO, a decent man and a decent President. I voted for him in the first election and against the John Sanunu Mentality that corroded his presidency in the second. His history is going to be difficult to match. He was born to wealth but signed up for the Navy on his 18th birthday - compare that to Cadet Bone Spurr. He served with honor and valor, and went to Yale after the war where others went before signing up. I served in the Navy and his actions does have an impact on me. I was teared up a few times watching the ceremonies and eulogies.

These days are certainly an honest comparison between Bush I and Trump. In this comparison Trump looks pathetic, but then he did before President Bush died.

These days are also important in that it presents history of his era to younger people who are only aware of recent history, if at all.
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:24 pm

What bothered me most about the GWH Bush funeral was the closing of the Federal Government including the Post Office on Wednesday. While I could understand it for DC due to security and logistics, outside of DC it should have been normal. Sadly it was much more about politics, in particular by President Trump to do the closings.


What are you talking about—the deaths of a president, current or former, are ALWAYS a Federal holiday. In the military it was for Nixon and Reagan when I was serving. Nothing to do with politics, it’s just the way it is, PERIOD.

GF
 
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trpmb6
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:00 pm

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
What bothered me most about the GWH Bush funeral was the closing of the Federal Government including the Post Office on Wednesday. While I could understand it for DC due to security and logistics, outside of DC it should have been normal. Sadly it was much more about politics, in particular by President Trump to do the closings.


What are you talking about—the deaths of a president, current or former, are ALWAYS a Federal holiday. In the military it was for Nixon and Reagan when I was serving. Nothing to do with politics, it’s just the way it is, PERIOD.

GF


Sometimes I feel like people look for any reason to blame Trump for something.

Anyways, I can't believe a high profile funeral for head of state's is even remotely controversial. Anyone remember Mandela's funeral? That was a world affair.
 
seb146
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:54 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
GalaxyFlyer wrote:
What bothered me most about the GWH Bush funeral was the closing of the Federal Government including the Post Office on Wednesday. While I could understand it for DC due to security and logistics, outside of DC it should have been normal. Sadly it was much more about politics, in particular by President Trump to do the closings.


What are you talking about—the deaths of a president, current or former, are ALWAYS a Federal holiday. In the military it was for Nixon and Reagan when I was serving. Nothing to do with politics, it’s just the way it is, PERIOD.

GF


Sometimes I feel like people look for any reason to blame Trump for something.

Anyways, I can't believe a high profile funeral for head of state's is even remotely controversial. Anyone remember Mandela's funeral? That was a world affair.


He had a great military career. There were points about his presidency that were good, too. But, as with anyone, there were bad points. I don't understand why we can not talk about that as well. The bad will certainly be overshadowed by the good when Carter and Clinton die. Rhetorical question I know the answer to, but why the double standard?
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zkojq
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:01 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
Anyone that acts with decorum, intelligence, and humility is viewed as an attack on the current GOP leader. It's like books being an attack on Sara Palin. It ain't the books' fault.


Yeah it's hilarious how saying that 41 was always a gentleman is apparently now interpreted by the hard right as being an attack on number 45. :roll:
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:12 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
One day would have been fine for Bush I. Bush II will be best served with whatever sea burial Bin Laden got. Trump can just be tossed in a dumpster fire with Jeanine Pirro and Hannity tossed on top of the pyre.


Seriously, this kind of post is what gives Non-AV a bad rep among the rest of the forum users.



1) I have to laugh at this ... nothing about defending an indefensible Orange Turd as POTUS is terrible, but this - THIS! - is what gives non -Av a bad rep. Lolol

2) Who cares anyway? It’s just an online forum. I swear, sometimes.....

Say, did Bush I’s Longtime mistress Jennifer Fitzgerald get invited to the funeral or was she already waiting in Heaven with her sexy lingerie on?
 
geologyrocks
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:13 pm

He was a President. It's kind of a big deal.

Now for the rest of you that have to constantly turn everything political...carry on.

Just ask yourself this real quick...how many times do you actually think you change someone's political viewpoint? If you could post a billion times...do you think it would be 0, 0, or 0?
 
seb146
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:02 pm

geologyrocks wrote:
He was a President. It's kind of a big deal.

Now for the rest of you that have to constantly turn everything political...carry on.

Just ask yourself this real quick...how many times do you actually think you change someone's political viewpoint? If you could post a billion times...do you think it would be 0, 0, or 0?


BECAUSE he was a president, it has to be political.

I don't see it as "changing someone's mind" but, rather, finding common ground to move this country to a better place for all.

And showing certain people how hypocritical their party and leadership are.
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geologyrocks
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:22 pm

seb146 wrote:
geologyrocks wrote:
He was a President. It's kind of a big deal.

Now for the rest of you that have to constantly turn everything political...carry on.

Just ask yourself this real quick...how many times do you actually think you change someone's political viewpoint? If you could post a billion times...do you think it would be 0, 0, or 0?


BECAUSE he was a president, it has to be political.

I don't see it as "changing someone's mind" but, rather, finding common ground to move this country to a better place for all.

And showing certain people how hypocritical their party and leadership are.


It does not have to be political. You can talk about a politician, in office, out of office, alive or deceased without it having to become about the actual political views.

Some of you suffer from a disease where you feel that everything is political. And don’t even pretend you’re trying to find common ground by talking about showing someone else’s gown hypocritical someone else is. No one, NO ONE, has ever said “Wel my political views really changed because this guy on a forum of a website about aviation photography said....”
 
seb146
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:16 pm

geologyrocks wrote:
It does not have to be political. You can talk about a politician, in office, out of office, alive or deceased without it having to become about the actual political views.

Some of you suffer from a disease where you feel that everything is political. And don’t even pretend you’re trying to find common ground by talking about showing someone else’s gown hypocritical someone else is. No one, NO ONE, has ever said “Wel my political views really changed because this guy on a forum of a website about aviation photography said....”


I will be the first to admit that my political views have softened and my tone has changed partly because of discussions on this site. There are some very thoughtful and well educated people here who I happen to disagree with but respect and want to talk with. This site is a part of my day. And many of us have found common ground when discussing politics.

Many things that GHWB did have long lasting effects. From his time in the CIA to his time as vice-president to his time as president. He shaped the views and opinions of many in politics today. As did Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter and Barak Obama and George W Bush.
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stratclub
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Re: Enough with the State Funerals?

Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:39 pm

A bone to pick for me is when there is a disaster of some kind the President has to visit the disaster site which completely throws a monkey wrench in relief efforts and cost the tax payers million$.

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