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Aesma
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Pacific territory of New Caledonia votes to remain part of France

Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:20 pm

56.4% of eligible voters (long term residents only) voted against independence, in a referendum that was the result of a 30 years period of negotiation and change in status for the island and its people since the Matignon Agreements of 1988.

https://www.france24.com/en/video/20181 ... ent-macron

It's closer than I would have thought, but refreshing nonetheless.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Airstud
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New Caledonia rejects independence. Also, New Caledonia exists

Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:21 pm

Today I learned of a place called New Caledonia; though I still haven't heard of the old one. It is a French territory in the Pacific Ocean, northeast of Australia, whose native-descended population (and for all I know, some of the whites) prefer Frenchlessness.

However, they have voted to remain French. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46087053

I really hate French salad dressing but otherwise I am OK with this.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
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Aesma
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Re: New Caledonia rejects independence. Also, New Caledonia exists

Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:35 pm

And I learned about French dressing, which doesn't look French at all to me (tip : if it has ketchup in it, it isn't French).

Caledonia is the Latin name given by the Romans to the land in today's Scotland, north of their province of Britannia, beyond the frontier of their empire.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
smallvoyageur
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Re: Pacific territory of New Caledonia votes to remain part of France

Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:36 pm

I would agree with you on the closeness considering that the poll suggest more 65-35 against independence.

Remember two things, one is that there are two more referenda in the future in 2020 and 2023 on the independence question and secondly who would replace France as its protector as many Pacific nations like Vanautu rely on China.
 
Airstud
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Re: New Caledonia rejects independence. Also, New Caledonia exists

Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:58 pm

Aesma wrote:
Caledonia is the Latin name given by the Romans to the land in today's Scotland, north of their province of Britannia, beyond the frontier of their empire.


Which, is what I said basically.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Pacific territory of New Caledonia votes to remain part of France

Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:41 pm

smallvoyageur wrote:
I would agree with you on the closeness considering that the poll suggest more 65-35 against independence.

Remember two things, one is that there are two more referenda in the future in 2020 and 2023 on the independence question and secondly who would replace France as its protector as many Pacific nations like Vanautu rely on China.

I don't see a reason as to why Australia or New Zealand or even France can be protectors. The FSM, Palau, and Marshall Islands are independent, yet they have a compact of association with the US where the US serves as their protector. The same concept could apply to France: independent, but linked by common interests.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
smallvoyageur
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Re: Pacific territory of New Caledonia votes to remain part of France

Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:48 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
smallvoyageur wrote:
I would agree with you on the closeness considering that the poll suggests more 65-35 against independence.

Remember two things, one is that there are two more referenda in the future in 2020 and 2023 on the independence question and secondly who would replace France as its protector as many Pacific nations like Vanuatu rely on China.

I don't see a reason as to why Australia or New Zealand or even France can be protectors. The FSM, Palau, and the Marshall Islands are independent, yet they have a compact of association with the US where the US serves as their protector. The same concept could apply to France: independent, but linked by common interests.


That is almost its current status! Although New Caledonians are French citizens, they have their own laws, money, taxes, minimum wages and social security systems. What I mean by China and Vanuatu, is that China uses a lot of its diplomatic pressure over the country and that affects the country's relations with others.
 
smallvoyageur
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Re: Pacific territory of New Caledonia votes to remain part of France

Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:50 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
smallvoyageur wrote:
I would agree with you on the closeness considering that the poll suggests more 65-35 against independence.

Remember two things, one is that there are two more referenda in the future in 2020 and 2023 on the independence question and secondly who would replace France as its protector as many Pacific nations like Vanuatu rely on China.

I don't see a reason as to why Australia or New Zealand or even France can be protectors. The FSM, Palau, and the Marshall Islands are independent, yet they have a compact of association with the US where the US serves as their protector. The same concept could apply to France: independent, but linked by common interests.


That is almost its current status! Although New Caledonians are French citizens, they have their own laws, money, taxes, minimum wages and social security systems. What I mean by China and Vanuatu, is that China uses a lot of its diplomatic pressure over the country and that affects the country's relations with others.
 
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cjg225
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Re: Pacific territory of New Caledonia votes to remain part of France

Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:02 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
I don't see a reason as to why Australia or New Zealand or even France can be protectors. The FSM, Palau, and Marshall Islands are independent, yet they have a compact of association with the US where the US serves as their protector. The same concept could apply to France: independent, but linked by common interests.

And entitles them to receive CDC-ordered vaccines, as I just learned at work on Thursday, as I've been told I have now figure out how to get our frozen vaccines to these 3 countries within the lifespan of our passive cooling containers...
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
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Aesma
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Re: Pacific territory of New Caledonia votes to remain part of France

Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:45 pm

The two main components of the local economy are Nickel mining and public administration. Nickel mining is losing money at the moment, due to competition from China, partly because China can be cheaper, not caring about destroying the environment (not saying things are done perfectly in New Caledonia). Public administration is a mix of local people and metropolitan French people sent to take jobs no local has the diplomas to do.

So if New Caledonia became independent it would need to replace all these people and pay for that, as for Nickel mining it would probably stop, or would have to be subsidized some other way.

I'm sure there would be an agreement to keep the French military there as I don't expect Kanaky, a country of 270 000, to be able to afford a Navy to defend itself.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Erebus
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Re: New Caledonia rejects independence. Also, New Caledonia exists

Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:37 pm

Airstud wrote:
Today I learned of a place called New Caledonia; though I still haven't heard of the old one. It is a French territory in the Pacific Ocean, northeast of Australia, whose native-descended population (and for all I know, some of the whites) prefer Frenchlessness.

However, they have voted to remain French. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46087053

I really hate French salad dressing but otherwise I am OK with this.


They also have their very own airline, Aircalin.



I quite like the livery.
 
WIederling
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Re: New Caledonia rejects independence. Also, New Caledonia exists

Mon Nov 05, 2018 10:45 am

Airstud wrote:
Today I learned of a place called New Caledonia; though I still haven't heard of the old one. It is a French territory in the Pacific Ocean, northeast of Australia, whose native-descended population (and for all I know, some of the whites) prefer Frenchlessness.

However, they have voted to remain French. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46087053

I really hate French salad dressing but otherwise I am OK with this.


Another US invention nobody really needs?
WP:EN wrote:
French dressing is a term originally used for any oil-and-vinegar-based salad dressing.[1] Today, it refers to a creamy ketchup-based dressing which varies in color from pale orange to bright red. It can be made by blending olive oil, vinegar, tomato paste, ketchup, brown sugar, paprika, and salt.[2] In the United States during the 1950s, manufactured "French dressing" was developed. The manufactured version is sweet and colored orange-to-red from the use of paprika and tomatoes.[3] In manufactured versions, "French dressing" is generally a pale orange and creamy, while "Catalina French dressing" is generally bright red and less creamy.[4]

In the United States, French dressing is regulated by federal standards [5]. The Association of Dressings and Sauces is lobbying to remove this regulation.

see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_dressing
Murphy is an optimist
 
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zkojq
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Re: Pacific territory of New Caledonia votes to remain part of France

Mon Nov 05, 2018 1:52 pm

The correct choice. France looks after its territories better than anyone else does.
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Aesma
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Re: Pacific territory of New Caledonia votes to remain part of France

Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:43 pm

I hope New Caledonia can now be removed from the UN list of places needing decolonization.
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Mortyman
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Re: New Caledonia rejects independence. Also, New Caledonia exists

Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:38 pm

Erebus wrote:
Airstud wrote:
Today I learned of a place called New Caledonia; though I still haven't heard of the old one. It is a French territory in the Pacific Ocean, northeast of Australia, whose native-descended population (and for all I know, some of the whites) prefer Frenchlessness.

However, they have voted to remain French. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46087053

I really hate French salad dressing but otherwise I am OK with this.


They also have their very own airline, Aircalin.



I quite like the livery.



Hate it. The previous one was far more elegant.
 
nicode
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Re: New Caledonia rejects independence. Also, New Caledonia exists

Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:18 pm

Erebus wrote:
They also have their very own airline, Aircalin.

Which means Air Calédonie International, as you probably know.

But do you know that calin is a french word meaning « hug » ? This can be literally translated as Hug Airlines. Nice idea !
 
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Mortyman
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Re: New Caledonia rejects independence. Also, New Caledonia exists

Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:42 pm

Erebus wrote:
Airstud wrote:
Today I learned of a place called New Caledonia; though I still haven't heard of the old one. It is a French territory in the Pacific Ocean, northeast of Australia, whose native-descended population (and for all I know, some of the whites) prefer Frenchlessness.

However, they have voted to remain French. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-46087053

I really hate French salad dressing but otherwise I am OK with this.


They also have their very own airline, Aircalin.



I quite like the livery.



and

Société Calédonienne de Transports Aériens or Air Calédonie

 
cedars747
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Re: Pacific territory of New Caledonia votes to remain part of France

Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:06 pm

zkojq wrote:
The correct choice. France looks after its territories better than anyone else does.


Where would we be now if Lebanon were under the French mandate? What a pity for Lebanon.
Well done New Caledonia.
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c933103
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Re: Pacific territory of New Caledonia votes to remain part of France

Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:01 pm

56.8% seems to be lower than forecast. Does that mean more Aboriginal people voted for independence or less European immigrant who're against independence come out?
 
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Aesma
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Re: Pacific territory of New Caledonia votes to remain part of France

Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:56 pm

I don't know if European immigrant is the good term. You needed to be on the island for several decades to be allowed to vote.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
c933103
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Re: Pacific territory of New Caledonia votes to remain part of France

Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:43 pm

People who come from Europe, and people whose family originally come from Europe. "Several decades" is probably not enough to bridge the gap in value together.

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