johnboy
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:49 pm

DL717 wrote:

Like this headline from the 1860s:

“Wealthy Democrat land owners get upset over Republican plan to end cheap labor”



Oh snap, he got us again, y’all!

:roll:
 
seb146
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:10 pm

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Must be horrible carrying around all that guilt on your shoulders.


You say guilt, others say knowledge.


Like this headline from the 1860s:

“Wealthy Democrat land owners get upset over Republican plan to end cheap labor”


Links or it didn't happen.

So you are just going to ignore RECENT history and completely ignore REPUBLICANS demanding segregation and "separate but equal" and REPUBLICANS insisting that whites are superior? Okay.
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DL717
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:40 pm

seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

You say guilt, others say knowledge.


Like this headline from the 1860s:

“Wealthy Democrat land owners get upset over Republican plan to end cheap labor”


Links or it didn't happen.

So you are just going to ignore RECENT history and completely ignore REPUBLICANS demanding segregation and "separate but equal" and REPUBLICANS insisting that whites are superior? Okay.


Republicans demanding segregation? Now you’ve really jumped the shark Seb.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
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DL717
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:49 pm

casinterest wrote:
2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Like this headline from the 1860s:

“Wealthy Democrat land owners get upset over Republican plan to end cheap labor”


Lol.

Are you going to pretend that there has been no ideological shift within the political parties in the last 150 years? Maybe you are very young and don't know much about what happened in this country, especially around the 1960s during the writing, signing and enforcement of the Civil Rights Act.


Yes he is going to pretend. Just like he pretends to not know that he has become part of a racist, nationalistic party that has become more closely aligned with the early 1930's Nazi movement than it has to do with the party of Lincoln.


Says the party of “bring me your huddled masses of low cost labor”. We need our crops picked and our lawns mowed. The more things change the more they stay the same. Just give it a different color of lipstick so it looks better. That way we can look like we care instead of being blatant slave traders.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
2122M
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:56 pm

DL717 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
2122M wrote:

Lol.

Are you going to pretend that there has been no ideological shift within the political parties in the last 150 years? Maybe you are very young and don't know much about what happened in this country, especially around the 1960s during the writing, signing and enforcement of the Civil Rights Act.


Yes he is going to pretend. Just like he pretends to not know that he has become part of a racist, nationalistic party that has become more closely aligned with the early 1930's Nazi movement than it has to do with the party of Lincoln.


Says the party of “bring me your huddled masses of low cost labor”. We need or crops picked and our lawns mowed. The more things change the more they stay the same. Just give it a different color of lipstick so it looks better. That way we can look like we care instead of being blatant slave traders.


To be clear, you believe that liberals are only in favor of granting asylum to foreigners because they provide low cost labor? You realize liberals are also pushing for higher minimum wages and are pro-union, right? Typically the objection from the right is that liberals will raise the cost of labor too much, not lower it.

Anyway, there is also the small chance that liberals are, in general, more compassionate people and value the safety and well-being of these people and that's why they are in favor of helping.

Just a thought.
 
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DL717
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:58 pm

2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Yes he is going to pretend. Just like he pretends to not know that he has become part of a racist, nationalistic party that has become more closely aligned with the early 1930's Nazi movement than it has to do with the party of Lincoln.


Says the party of “bring me your huddled masses of low cost labor”. We need or crops picked and our lawns mowed. The more things change the more they stay the same. Just give it a different color of lipstick so it looks better. That way we can look like we care instead of being blatant slave traders.


To be clear, you believe that liberals are only in favor of granting asylum to foreigners because they provide low cost labor? You realize liberals are also pushing for higher minimum wages and are pro-union, right? Typically the objection from the right is that liberals will raise the cost of labor too much, not lower it.

Anyway, there is also the small chance that liberals are, in general, more compassionate people and value the safety and well-being of these people and that's why they are in favor of helping.

Just a thought.


Sure. And my dog might turn into a cat someday.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
2122M
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:03 pm

DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Says the party of “bring me your huddled masses of low cost labor”. We need or crops picked and our lawns mowed. The more things change the more they stay the same. Just give it a different color of lipstick so it looks better. That way we can look like we care instead of being blatant slave traders.


To be clear, you believe that liberals are only in favor of granting asylum to foreigners because they provide low cost labor? You realize liberals are also pushing for higher minimum wages and are pro-union, right? Typically the objection from the right is that liberals will raise the cost of labor too much, not lower it.

Anyway, there is also the small chance that liberals are, in general, more compassionate people and value the safety and well-being of these people and that's why they are in favor of helping.

Just a thought.


Sure. And my dog might turn into a cat someday.


No I think that's very unlikely.

Do you view liberal policies as evil and intentionally damaging, or as well-meaning but misguided?
 
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DL717
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:06 pm

2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:

To be clear, you believe that liberals are only in favor of granting asylum to foreigners because they provide low cost labor? You realize liberals are also pushing for higher minimum wages and are pro-union, right? Typically the objection from the right is that liberals will raise the cost of labor too much, not lower it.

Anyway, there is also the small chance that liberals are, in general, more compassionate people and value the safety and well-being of these people and that's why they are in favor of helping.

Just a thought.


Sure. And my dog might turn into a cat someday.


No I think that's very unlikely.

Do you view liberal policies as evil and intentionally damaging, or as well-meaning but misguided?


When it comes to immigration and economics both misguided and damaging.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
2122M
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:10 pm

DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Sure. And my dog might turn into a cat someday.


No I think that's very unlikely.

Do you view liberal policies as evil and intentionally damaging, or as well-meaning but misguided?


When it comes to immigration and economics both misguided and damaging.


But well meaning? I mean, do you think democrats have their hearts in the right place but are just wrong?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:17 pm

DL717 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
2122M wrote:

Lol.

Are you going to pretend that there has been no ideological shift within the political parties in the last 150 years? Maybe you are very young and don't know much about what happened in this country, especially around the 1960s during the writing, signing and enforcement of the Civil Rights Act.


Yes he is going to pretend. Just like he pretends to not know that he has become part of a racist, nationalistic party that has become more closely aligned with the early 1930's Nazi movement than it has to do with the party of Lincoln.


Says the party of “bring me your huddled masses of low cost labor”. We need our crops picked and our lawns mowed. The more things change the more they stay the same. Just give it a different color of lipstick so it looks better. That way we can look like we care instead of being blatant slave traders.



Our crops picked sounds like a lot of Republicans to me. Our Lawns mowed also sounds like a lot of republicans to me.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
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DL717
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:23 pm

casinterest wrote:
DL717 wrote:
casinterest wrote:

Yes he is going to pretend. Just like he pretends to not know that he has become part of a racist, nationalistic party that has become more closely aligned with the early 1930's Nazi movement than it has to do with the party of Lincoln.


Says the party of “bring me your huddled masses of low cost labor”. We need our crops picked and our lawns mowed. The more things change the more they stay the same. Just give it a different color of lipstick so it looks better. That way we can look like we care instead of being blatant slave traders.



Our crops picked sounds like a lot of Republicans to me. Our Lawns mowed also sounds like a lot of republicans to me.


Maybe lazy ones, but since California seems to be the most welcoming I think it’s clear who needs their lawns mowed, floors mopped and clothes washed the most. Hell, even Democrats in this very thread lament the loss of produce over it.

Buy a Deere. A little yard work won’t hurt ya!
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:35 pm

DL717 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Says the party of “bring me your huddled masses of low cost labor”. We need our crops picked and our lawns mowed. The more things change the more they stay the same. Just give it a different color of lipstick so it looks better. That way we can look like we care instead of being blatant slave traders.



Our crops picked sounds like a lot of Republicans to me. Our Lawns mowed also sounds like a lot of republicans to me.


Maybe lazy ones, but since California seems to be the most welcoming I think it’s clear who needs their lawns mowed, floors mopped and clothes washed the most. Hell, even Democrats in this very thread lament the loss of produce over it.

Buy a Deere. A little yard work won’t hurt ya!



Californians don't have lawns. They have dirt. What they do have is the largest farms in the republican part of the state
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
seb146
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:44 pm

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Like this headline from the 1860s:

“Wealthy Democrat land owners get upset over Republican plan to end cheap labor”


Links or it didn't happen.

So you are just going to ignore RECENT history and completely ignore REPUBLICANS demanding segregation and "separate but equal" and REPUBLICANS insisting that whites are superior? Okay.


Republicans demanding segregation? Now you’ve really jumped the shark Seb.


Go read up on the Civil Rights Movement in the South in the 1960s. The Lunchcounter Sit-In and Rosa Parks and "Segregation now! Segregation forever!"
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
salttee
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:42 pm

DL717 wrote:
Buy a Deere. A little yard work won’t hurt ya!

DL717 is channeling Dan Quayle.
Note the similarity.
 
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DL717
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:18 am

salttee wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Buy a Deere. A little yard work won’t hurt ya!

DL717 is channeling Dan Quayle.
Note the similarity.


Just don’t tell PETA. They don’t like caged beasts and nothing beats a Deere.

Image

See your post fail yet?
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
salttee
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:40 am

Oh, I see.

Very clever.
 
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Aaron747
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:20 am

DL717 wrote:

Maybe lazy ones, but since California seems to be the most welcoming I think it’s clear who needs their lawns mowed, floors mopped and clothes washed the most. Hell, even Democrats in this very thread lament the loss of produce over it.

Buy a Deere. A little yard work won’t hurt ya!


I assure you Californians are not too lazy to mow lawns. More like: who is going to do it? 70-hour a week data analytics engineer traveling to 10 US cities per month, or 80-hour a week local IP attorney wifey? The answer is neither when pre-tax household income is north of $375K.

Important point GOPers sticking fingers in CA's eye like to conveniently forget: state GDP slightly exceeds that of the UK, with a population TWENTY MILLION fewer. Those high incomes are not going to permit time for a lot of housework - just a fact.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:31 am

Aaron747 wrote:

Important point GOPers sticking fingers in CA's eye like to conveniently forget: state GDP slightly exceeds that of the UK, with a population TWENTY MILLION fewer. Those high incomes are not going to permit time for a lot of housework - just a fact.


True, but what would they know about high incomes? Most GOP voters are in the 35 or less club.

Another thing they like to forget about CA is how much they depend on it for their existence.

On the abstract, and not just with these issues or even the GOP in general... I wonder if people with extreme positions on things ever truly realize what would happen if they actually got their way...
Much like a GE90, I'm a huge fan of Big Twins...
 
johnboy
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:27 am

DL717 wrote:

Maybe lazy ones, but since California seems to be the most welcoming I think it’s clear who needs their lawns mowed, floors mopped and clothes washed the most. Hell, even Democrats in this very thread lament the loss of produce over it.

Buy a Deere. A little yard work won’t hurt ya!


This one is so ignorant of facts that he doesn’t even realize what he’s throwing out there is laughably wrong. I thought he was a snotty nosed teen but then he indicated he had spawn and grandspawn.

The mind boggles.
 
bennett123
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:23 pm

It would be interesting if those in the States could say which one.

Would help to know which if any KNOW what is happening in California as opposed to those reading about it on some website.
 
seb146
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:43 pm

salttee wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Buy a Deere. A little yard work won’t hurt ya!

DL717 is channeling Dan Quayle.
Note the similarity.


DL, why don't you take yourself and your family to Salinas or El Centro and take away jobs from illegals? You want only Americans to work in the United States, so go pick fruits and vegetables and send them Mexicans back. While you are at it, you can get on that free welfare and live high on the hog. You seem to think this is what happens, so go for it! Far be it from me to stand in the way of other American's dreams!
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
seb146
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:46 pm

bennett123 wrote:
It would be interesting if those in the States could say which one.

Would help to know which if any KNOW what is happening in California as opposed to those reading about it on some website.


My partner (I call him "The Brosband"; long story) and I lived north of San Francisco for like 6 or 7 years. His family is still there in the North Bay and he has other family in Los Angeles. We moved to Oregon about a year ago (the coast, not Portland, so don't start LOL)
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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DL717
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:24 pm

seb146 wrote:
salttee wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Buy a Deere. A little yard work won’t hurt ya!

DL717 is channeling Dan Quayle.
Note the similarity.


DL, why don't you take yourself and your family to Salinas or El Centro and take away jobs from illegals? You want only Americans to work in the United States, so go pick fruits and vegetables and send them Mexicans back. While you are at it, you can get on that free welfare and live high on the hog. You seem to think this is what happens, so go for it! Far be it from me to stand in the way of other American's dreams!


Nah. I’ll stay here in the Midwest. Funny thing, lots of farms around here, and I don’t see any migrant workers running around.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
alfa164
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:00 am

salttee wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Buy a Deere. A little yard work won’t hurt ya!

DL717 is channeling Dan Quayle. Note the similarity.


Unmistakable... I'll bet he can't even spell "potato". Or was it "potatoe"?... ;)
 
seb146
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:11 am

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
salttee wrote:
DL717 is channeling Dan Quayle.
Note the similarity.


DL, why don't you take yourself and your family to Salinas or El Centro and take away jobs from illegals? You want only Americans to work in the United States, so go pick fruits and vegetables and send them Mexicans back. While you are at it, you can get on that free welfare and live high on the hog. You seem to think this is what happens, so go for it! Far be it from me to stand in the way of other American's dreams!


Nah. I’ll stay here in the Midwest. Funny thing, lots of farms around here, and I don’t see any migrant workers running around.


Growing and harvesting grain is quite a bit different than growing and harvesting fruits and vegetables. Funny how that works. Like I said, maybe you should spend a couple of months in El Centro or Salinas and see how farmers there do things.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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DL717
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:40 am

seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

DL, why don't you take yourself and your family to Salinas or El Centro and take away jobs from illegals? You want only Americans to work in the United States, so go pick fruits and vegetables and send them Mexicans back. While you are at it, you can get on that free welfare and live high on the hog. You seem to think this is what happens, so go for it! Far be it from me to stand in the way of other American's dreams!


Nah. I’ll stay here in the Midwest. Funny thing, lots of farms around here, and I don’t see any migrant workers running around.



Growing and harvesting grain is quite a bit different than growing and harvesting fruits and vegetables. Funny how that works. Like I said, maybe you should spend a couple of months in El Centro or Salinas and see how farmers there do things.


Never been to the Midwest I see.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
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DL717
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:41 am

alfa164 wrote:
salttee wrote:
DL717 wrote:
Buy a Deere. A little yard work won’t hurt ya!

DL717 is channeling Dan Quayle. Note the similarity.


Unmistakable... I'll bet he can't even spell "potato". Or was it "potatoe"?... ;)


You didn’t get it either. With a picture provided to boot. Too much time in the concrete jungle.

Nothing beats a Deere.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
seb146
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:49 am

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Nah. I’ll stay here in the Midwest. Funny thing, lots of farms around here, and I don’t see any migrant workers running around.



Growing and harvesting grain is quite a bit different than growing and harvesting fruits and vegetables. Funny how that works. Like I said, maybe you should spend a couple of months in El Centro or Salinas and see how farmers there do things.


Never been to the Midwest I see.


My family is from Kansas. But, as a Republican, you don't care because, for some reason, I am just a "liberal" and nothing more....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
FreequentFlier
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:25 pm

2122M wrote:
DL717 wrote:
2122M wrote:

To be clear, you believe that liberals are only in favor of granting asylum to foreigners because they provide low cost labor? You realize liberals are also pushing for higher minimum wages and are pro-union, right? Typically the objection from the right is that liberals will raise the cost of labor too much, not lower it.

Anyway, there is also the small chance that liberals are, in general, more compassionate people and value the safety and well-being of these people and that's why they are in favor of helping.

Just a thought.


Sure. And my dog might turn into a cat someday.


No I think that's very unlikely.

Do you view liberal policies as evil and intentionally damaging, or as well-meaning but misguided?


I think liberals enact policies as a means of displaying their own virtue. It’s why the term virtue signaling was created and it fits the modern day left like a god damn velvet glove.

The impacts those policies have on citizens and the world are irrelevant to you so long as you can tout your supposed fucking virtue to everyone and anyone who will listen (newsflash: we don’t care)

That your policies are literally wrecking the world and resulting in quasi fascist governments increasingly getting elected around the globe is almost immaterial to you. It’s full speed ahead provided you get to continue touting your own virtue.

Let’s take California since that is the subject of this thread. Are some good things happening there? Sure, just as there are some good things happening in every state. But California’s middle class is shrinking and rapidly I might add. When you hear about all the transplants to other states, they are overwhelmingly middle class people. The state’s policies are rapidly turning it into a state with tech oligarchs and IP attorneys on one end and everyone else barely scraping by on the other. That is not a recipe for stability. That is a recipe for a guy like Jair Bolsonaro eventually getting elected, as he will in Brazil.

That California’s politicians seems to think this portends some kind of glorious future is direct evidence of their stupidity. Every new policy that has been adopted in recent years has only added to the cost/regulatory barrier of building additional housing, because the politicians there are more concerned with touting their environmental virtues than they are about making sure their middle class can actually afford a home.

As I’ve said in other threads, I am an elitist, not a populist. I believe in a rule by well educated technocrats serving on behalf of their citizens for those citizen’s benefit. The problem with modern day liberalism is not its elitism. It’s that its modern day elites aren’t actually elite anymore. They are fools.

To fail on occasion is to be human. To fail and to learn nothing from the experience and carry on as if the failure were just imagined and anyone pointing out the failure is a (insert racist/sexist/homophobe/misogynist, etc here) is to be a modern day “elite”.
 
seb146
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:51 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:

I think liberals enact policies as a means of displaying their own virtue. It’s why the term virtue signaling was created and it fits the modern day left like a god damn velvet glove.

The impacts those policies have on citizens and the world are irrelevant to you so long as you can tout your supposed fucking virtue to everyone and anyone who will listen (newsflash: we don’t care)

That your policies are literally wrecking the world and resulting in quasi fascist governments increasingly getting elected around the globe is almost immaterial to you. It’s full speed ahead provided you get to continue touting your own virtue.

Let’s take California since that is the subject of this thread. Are some good things happening there? Sure, just as there are some good things happening in every state. But California’s middle class is shrinking and rapidly I might add. When you hear about all the transplants to other states, they are overwhelmingly middle class people. The state’s policies are rapidly turning it into a state with tech oligarchs and IP attorneys on one end and everyone else barely scraping by on the other. That is not a recipe for stability. That is a recipe for a guy like Jair Bolsonaro eventually getting elected, as he will in Brazil.

That California’s politicians seems to think this portends some kind of glorious future is direct evidence of their stupidity. Every new policy that has been adopted in recent years has only added to the cost/regulatory barrier of building additional housing, because the politicians there are more concerned with touting their environmental virtues than they are about making sure their middle class can actually afford a home.

As I’ve said in other threads, I am an elitist, not a populist. I believe in a rule by well educated technocrats serving on behalf of their citizens for those citizen’s benefit. The problem with modern day liberalism is not its elitism. It’s that its modern day elites aren’t actually elite anymore. They are fools.

To fail on occasion is to be human. To fail and to learn nothing from the experience and carry on as if the failure were just imagined and anyone pointing out the failure is a (insert racist/sexist/homophobe/misogynist, etc here) is to be a modern day “elite”.


Your entire rant supposes that "liberals" hate the free market and that only you conservatives/elitists/nationalists are the only ones interested in the free market. Which is entirely untrue. That is exactly why California is so prosperous. And there is building going on all over the state. You suppose it to be a jungle, but it is not. You keep ranting on and on about the middle class being destroyed and how wonderful nationalists are at running the country, but, the nationalists, like you, are ruining this country. Whining about equality for LGBTQ+ and Blacks and Latinos and women and Muslims while cutting taxes and increasing spending. When "liberals" do get into office, you nationalists whine and complain about the out of control deficit and debt.

California is currently running a budget surplus. You nationalists want to destroy that. California has some of the strongest equality laws in the nation. You nationalists want to destroy that.

I also find it interesting that you nationalists used "elite" as a four letter word and insult toward "liberal" but you now seem to enjoy it and use it for your own. I don't know why you are ranting about the middle class disappearing. Instead of pretending to care, you should just go all the way and cheer the disappearing middle class. That is what you elitist nationalists are working so hard for.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 953
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Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:57 pm

seb146 wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:

I think liberals enact policies as a means of displaying their own virtue. It’s why the term virtue signaling was created and it fits the modern day left like a god damn velvet glove.

The impacts those policies have on citizens and the world are irrelevant to you so long as you can tout your supposed fucking virtue to everyone and anyone who will listen (newsflash: we don’t care)

That your policies are literally wrecking the world and resulting in quasi fascist governments increasingly getting elected around the globe is almost immaterial to you. It’s full speed ahead provided you get to continue touting your own virtue.

Let’s take California since that is the subject of this thread. Are some good things happening there? Sure, just as there are some good things happening in every state. But California’s middle class is shrinking and rapidly I might add. When you hear about all the transplants to other states, they are overwhelmingly middle class people. The state’s policies are rapidly turning it into a state with tech oligarchs and IP attorneys on one end and everyone else barely scraping by on the other. That is not a recipe for stability. That is a recipe for a guy like Jair Bolsonaro eventually getting elected, as he will in Brazil.

That California’s politicians seems to think this portends some kind of glorious future is direct evidence of their stupidity. Every new policy that has been adopted in recent years has only added to the cost/regulatory barrier of building additional housing, because the politicians there are more concerned with touting their environmental virtues than they are about making sure their middle class can actually afford a home.

As I’ve said in other threads, I am an elitist, not a populist. I believe in a rule by well educated technocrats serving on behalf of their citizens for those citizen’s benefit. The problem with modern day liberalism is not its elitism. It’s that its modern day elites aren’t actually elite anymore. They are fools.

To fail on occasion is to be human. To fail and to learn nothing from the experience and carry on as if the failure were just imagined and anyone pointing out the failure is a (insert racist/sexist/homophobe/misogynist, etc here) is to be a modern day “elite”.


Your entire rant supposes that "liberals" hate the free market and that only you conservatives/elitists/nationalists are the only ones interested in the free market. Which is entirely untrue. That is exactly why California is so prosperous. And there is building going on all over the state. You suppose it to be a jungle, but it is not. You keep ranting on and on about the middle class being destroyed and how wonderful nationalists are at running the country, but, the nationalists, like you, are ruining this country. Whining about equality for LGBTQ+ and Blacks and Latinos and women and Muslims while cutting taxes and increasing spending. When "liberals" do get into office, you nationalists whine and complain about the out of control deficit and debt.

California is currently running a budget surplus. You nationalists want to destroy that. California has some of the strongest equality laws in the nation. You nationalists want to destroy that.

I also find it interesting that you nationalists used "elite" as a four letter word and insult toward "liberal" but you now seem to enjoy it and use it for your own. I don't know why you are ranting about the middle class disappearing. Instead of pretending to care, you should just go all the way and cheer the disappearing middle class. That is what you elitist nationalists are working so hard for.


Lol, you are literally making up everything that I think. That you think I’m a “nationalist” is part of your fundamental problem. I didn’t vote for Trump in 2016 and won’t in 2020. Your problem is not with me. It is with the hundreds of millions of people around the globe rejecting liberalism and electing authoritarian characters. As David Frum (not exactly a conservative these days) recently said, if the left ignores certain issues like immigration altogether and likens their opponents to fascists, then average voters will elect fascists to enforce immigration policies.

Some of us are trying to save liberalism from itself. If you haven’t noticed, your actions and reckless policies have been literally destabilizing the world.

A wise proponent of liberalism might ponder for a second why that is and recalibrate accordingly. A dumb and foolish proponent of liberalism would just close their ears and double down.

This is why liberal parties are dying out in Europe. Your policies are reckless and you don’t give a shit what average citizens think. Some of us who quite frankly are wiser than you are trying to rescue you from your own self destruction. Perhaps it is not worth the time or effort. The modern day is perhaps irredeemable, bordering on regressive.
 
bagoldex
Posts: 846
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:33 pm

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:15 pm

Trump Models U.S. Economy on Kansas. That’s a Mistake

The better choice is one of his favorite whipping boys, California, which has a balanced budget, rapid growth and industries of the future.

By Barry Ritholtz
October 19, 2018, 11:00 AM EDT

If you had to choose one state out of the 50 to use as a blueprint for America's future growth plan, which state would you select?

Let's add a wrinkle. There are two choices, Kansas or California, which my Bloomberg Opinion colleague Matthew Winkler wrote about the other day.

Would you select the coastal tech and entertainment giant or the heartland agriculture and industrial producer?

It's a no-brainer. Kansas has been a disaster, with giant budget shortfalls, service cuts, slashed education budgets and a brain drain with young people leaving the state. The economy has failed to keep up with growth in the rest of the country and is much weaker in terms of job gains, wage increases and gross domestic product growth than neighboring states with similar economies. In 2015, for example, Kansas had one of the worst job growth rates in the country, at 0.8 percent, adding just 10,900 nonfarm jobs.

For more ...

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... -a-mistake
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 953
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:50 pm

bagoldex wrote:
Trump Models U.S. Economy on Kansas. That’s a Mistake

The better choice is one of his favorite whipping boys, California, which has a balanced budget, rapid growth and industries of the future.

By Barry Ritholtz
October 19, 2018, 11:00 AM EDT

If you had to choose one state out of the 50 to use as a blueprint for America's future growth plan, which state would you select?

Let's add a wrinkle. There are two choices, Kansas or California, which my Bloomberg Opinion colleague Matthew Winkler wrote about the other day.

Would you select the coastal tech and entertainment giant or the heartland agriculture and industrial producer?

It's a no-brainer. Kansas has been a disaster, with giant budget shortfalls, service cuts, slashed education budgets and a brain drain with young people leaving the state. The economy has failed to keep up with growth in the rest of the country and is much weaker in terms of job gains, wage increases and gross domestic product growth than neighboring states with similar economies. In 2015, for example, Kansas had one of the worst job growth rates in the country, at 0.8 percent, adding just 10,900 nonfarm jobs.

For more ...

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... -a-mistake


Great. Now do Texas vs California.
 
seb146
Posts: 18275
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:57 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
seb146 wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:

I think liberals enact policies as a means of displaying their own virtue. It’s why the term virtue signaling was created and it fits the modern day left like a god damn velvet glove.

The impacts those policies have on citizens and the world are irrelevant to you so long as you can tout your supposed fucking virtue to everyone and anyone who will listen (newsflash: we don’t care)

That your policies are literally wrecking the world and resulting in quasi fascist governments increasingly getting elected around the globe is almost immaterial to you. It’s full speed ahead provided you get to continue touting your own virtue.

Let’s take California since that is the subject of this thread. Are some good things happening there? Sure, just as there are some good things happening in every state. But California’s middle class is shrinking and rapidly I might add. When you hear about all the transplants to other states, they are overwhelmingly middle class people. The state’s policies are rapidly turning it into a state with tech oligarchs and IP attorneys on one end and everyone else barely scraping by on the other. That is not a recipe for stability. That is a recipe for a guy like Jair Bolsonaro eventually getting elected, as he will in Brazil.

That California’s politicians seems to think this portends some kind of glorious future is direct evidence of their stupidity. Every new policy that has been adopted in recent years has only added to the cost/regulatory barrier of building additional housing, because the politicians there are more concerned with touting their environmental virtues than they are about making sure their middle class can actually afford a home.

As I’ve said in other threads, I am an elitist, not a populist. I believe in a rule by well educated technocrats serving on behalf of their citizens for those citizen’s benefit. The problem with modern day liberalism is not its elitism. It’s that its modern day elites aren’t actually elite anymore. They are fools.

To fail on occasion is to be human. To fail and to learn nothing from the experience and carry on as if the failure were just imagined and anyone pointing out the failure is a (insert racist/sexist/homophobe/misogynist, etc here) is to be a modern day “elite”.


Your entire rant supposes that "liberals" hate the free market and that only you conservatives/elitists/nationalists are the only ones interested in the free market. Which is entirely untrue. That is exactly why California is so prosperous. And there is building going on all over the state. You suppose it to be a jungle, but it is not. You keep ranting on and on about the middle class being destroyed and how wonderful nationalists are at running the country, but, the nationalists, like you, are ruining this country. Whining about equality for LGBTQ+ and Blacks and Latinos and women and Muslims while cutting taxes and increasing spending. When "liberals" do get into office, you nationalists whine and complain about the out of control deficit and debt.

California is currently running a budget surplus. You nationalists want to destroy that. California has some of the strongest equality laws in the nation. You nationalists want to destroy that.

I also find it interesting that you nationalists used "elite" as a four letter word and insult toward "liberal" but you now seem to enjoy it and use it for your own. I don't know why you are ranting about the middle class disappearing. Instead of pretending to care, you should just go all the way and cheer the disappearing middle class. That is what you elitist nationalists are working so hard for.


Lol, you are literally making up everything that I think. That you think I’m a “nationalist” is part of your fundamental problem. I didn’t vote for Trump in 2016 and won’t in 2020. Your problem is not with me. It is with the hundreds of millions of people around the globe rejecting liberalism and electing authoritarian characters. As David Frum (not exactly a conservative these days) recently said, if the left ignores certain issues like immigration altogether and likens their opponents to fascists, then average voters will elect fascists to enforce immigration policies.

Some of us are trying to save liberalism from itself. If you haven’t noticed, your actions and reckless policies have been literally destabilizing the world.

A wise proponent of liberalism might ponder for a second why that is and recalibrate accordingly. A dumb and foolish proponent of liberalism would just close their ears and double down.

This is why liberal parties are dying out in Europe. Your policies are reckless and you don’t give a shit what average citizens think. Some of us who quite frankly are wiser than you are trying to rescue you from your own self destruction. Perhaps it is not worth the time or effort. The modern day is perhaps irredeemable, bordering on regressive.


This is hilarious to me because, everything that I see with my own two lying eyes, is you right wing nationalist types run huge deficits, care only for the wealthy, and run bumper sticker campaigns and never ever take responsibility for the messes you make. You right wing nationalist types stoke fear and hate and continually blame this group or that group using small words and no facts. And the base eats it up. You right wing nationalist types make it sound just realistic enough that random shoppers in supermarkets are gunned down and synagogues are gunned down and bombs are sent to political opponents. But, not to worry, it is someone else's fault. Not the rhetoric that you right wing nationalist types constantly scream at everyone.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
bagoldex
Posts: 846
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:33 pm

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:16 pm

FreequentFlier wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
Trump Models U.S. Economy on Kansas. That’s a Mistake

The better choice is one of his favorite whipping boys, California, which has a balanced budget, rapid growth and industries of the future.

By Barry Ritholtz
October 19, 2018, 11:00 AM EDT

If you had to choose one state out of the 50 to use as a blueprint for America's future growth plan, which state would you select?

Let's add a wrinkle. There are two choices, Kansas or California, which my Bloomberg Opinion colleague Matthew Winkler wrote about the other day.

Would you select the coastal tech and entertainment giant or the heartland agriculture and industrial producer?

It's a no-brainer. Kansas has been a disaster, with giant budget shortfalls, service cuts, slashed education budgets and a brain drain with young people leaving the state. The economy has failed to keep up with growth in the rest of the country and is much weaker in terms of job gains, wage increases and gross domestic product growth than neighboring states with similar economies. In 2015, for example, Kansas had one of the worst job growth rates in the country, at 0.8 percent, adding just 10,900 nonfarm jobs.

For more ...

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/artic ... -a-mistake


Great. Now do Texas vs California.


I'll let you.
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 745
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:04 pm

seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:


Growing and harvesting grain is quite a bit different than growing and harvesting fruits and vegetables. Funny how that works. Like I said, maybe you should spend a couple of months in El Centro or Salinas and see how farmers there do things.


Never been to the Midwest I see.


My family is from Kansas. But, as a Republican, you don't care because, for some reason, I am just a "liberal" and nothing more....


Grain country. Anyways, I guess migrant workers can’t operate machinery right? Only good for bending over.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
seb146
Posts: 18275
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:19 am

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:36 pm

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Never been to the Midwest I see.


My family is from Kansas. But, as a Republican, you don't care because, for some reason, I am just a "liberal" and nothing more....


Grain country. Anyways, I guess migrant workers can’t operate machinery right? Only good for bending over.


And with this statement you prove you know nothing about large scale agriculture operations. Buh-bye.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 7032
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:38 pm

Anyone seen any recent reports of these riots?
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
User avatar
einsteinboricua
Posts: 6691
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:44 pm

casinterest wrote:
Anyone seen any recent reports of these riots?

Let me attempt to channel the MAGATS:

"They're out there. Do you expect me to Google them for you?"

or

"The leftist/liberal/elite/lamestream media is not reporting it because they're hiding the truth"

Did I do this right?
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
User avatar
casinterest
Posts: 7032
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:30 am

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:15 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Anyone seen any recent reports of these riots?

Let me attempt to channel the MAGATS:

"They're out there. Do you expect me to Google them for you?"

or

"The leftist/liberal/elite/lamestream media is not reporting it because they're hiding the truth"

Did I do this right?


About par for the course.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 10586
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:12 pm

bennett123 wrote:
It would be interesting if those in the States could say which one.

Would help to know which if any KNOW what is happening in California as opposed to those reading about it on some website.


Well Trump is saying it so it must be bullshit. No need to look further.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
salttee
Posts: 2756
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:34 pm

Aesma wrote:
Well Trump is saying it so it must be bullshit. No need to look further.

Is that supposed to be sarcasm?
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 10586
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:40 pm

If Trump said the weather was beautiful I would get my umbrella out.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
BerenErchamion
Posts: 165
Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 12:44 am

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:32 am

DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

Must be horrible carrying around all that guilt on your shoulders.


You say guilt, others say knowledge.


Like this headline from the 1860s:

“Wealthy Democrat land owners get upset over Republican plan to end cheap labor”


What astounds me about this sort of nonsense that willfully-ignorant knuckle-draggers like yourself post is the complete and utter absence of any sense of history that it reveals. No understanding of the concept that things change over time, that the present is different from the past and the future will also be different, that people make decisions and those decisions have real-world impacts. No, no, no, for you and your kind, history isn't important: what was is what is and always will be and always has been.

Sometimes I wonder if you've ever in your life so much as set eyes upon a clock.
It's OK to be rude to fascists.
 
alfa164
Posts: 2260
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:53 am

BerenErchamion wrote:
Sometimes I wonder if you've ever in your life so much as set eyes upon a clock.


Only if it is in the background while they are watching some demagogue on Faux News... :roll:
 
LMP737
Posts: 5637
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:28 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
Save California from what??


From all the scary little brown people who don't speak American.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
LMP737
Posts: 5637
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:34 am

FreequentFlier wrote:

. The state’s policies are rapidly turning it into a state with tech oligarchs and IP attorneys on one end and everyone else barely scraping by on the other. .


News flash my friend, the USA is already an oligarchy.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
LMP737
Posts: 5637
Joined: Wed May 08, 2002 4:06 pm

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:54 am

FreequentFlier wrote:
As David Frum (not exactly a conservative these days) recently said, if the left ignores certain issues like immigration altogether and likens their opponents to fascists, then average voters will elect fascists to enforce immigration policies.
.


Here's the problem. Those on the right take advantage of peoples ignorance and fears and use it as a scape goat for all that ales the country. Its the oldest trick in the book when you think about it. What do you think things like the Chinese Exclusion Act were all about?

Here are the simple facts. In the case of United States immigration is not the reason why we have a mountain of debt, it's not the reason our infrastructure is falling apart, or why we are involved in an endless war. Those three issues alone are whole lot more important than some refugee caravan. But listening to some people you would think the opposite.
Never take financial advice from co-workers.
 
FreequentFlier
Posts: 953
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 4:30 am

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:30 am

LMP737 wrote:
FreequentFlier wrote:
As David Frum (not exactly a conservative these days) recently said, if the left ignores certain issues like immigration altogether and likens their opponents to fascists, then average voters will elect fascists to enforce immigration policies.
.


Here's the problem. Those on the right take advantage of peoples ignorance and fears and use it as a scape goat for all that ales the country. Its the oldest trick in the book when you think about it. What do you think things like the Chinese Exclusion Act were all about?

Here are the simple facts. In the case of United States immigration is not the reason why we have a mountain of debt, it's not the reason our infrastructure is falling apart, or why we are involved in an endless war. Those three issues alone are whole lot more important than some refugee caravan. But listening to some people you would think the opposite.


You are free to completely ignore Frum’s advice. But for a group of people who sure as shit like to constantly claim you’re “on the right side of history”, the current state of world affairs ain’t exactly going according to plan, now is it?

I’m honestly getting kind of tired beating this drum because I’m clearly wasting my time here, but you might want to start say, I dunno, maybe taking at least a single solitary second thinking about why those plans are off track and whether you should recalibrate a bit. Calling everyone else a racist, homophobe or sexist doesn’t seem to be working so hot.
 
User avatar
DL717
Posts: 745
Joined: Wed May 23, 2018 10:53 pm

Re: Trump: Californians rioting over sanctuary cities

Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:30 pm

BerenErchamion wrote:
DL717 wrote:
seb146 wrote:

You say guilt, others say knowledge.


Like this headline from the 1860s:

“Wealthy Democrat land owners get upset over Republican plan to end cheap labor”


What astounds me about this sort of nonsense that willfully-ignorant knuckle-draggers like yourself post is the complete and utter absence of any sense of history that it reveals. No understanding of the concept that things change over time, that the present is different from the past and the future will also be different, that people make decisions and those decisions have real-world impacts. No, no, no, for you and your kind, history isn't important: what was is what is and always will be and always has been.

Sometimes I wonder if you've ever in your life so much as set eyes upon a clock.


Hate to break it to you, but the more things change, the more they stay the same. They just make it seem a little nicer by giving it a paycheck and calling it good.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.

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