Airstud
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Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:19 am

Four years ago, see; I went for my (supposed-to-be-)yearly physical. Got a phone call ten days later that my blood work showed a glucose level of 105 mg/㎗ and that that there level is "pre-diabetic." I think maybe the nurse had said "bordering on prediabetic." Or something. But lay off the candy, she said (and I don't eat candy), soda (I rarely drink soda and I've not drunk a full-sugar soda in about eleven years), get more exercise (I work out like a m!#@&er f)@#*er; for I am a stud), and lower your carb intake.

(Uh-oh. I quite like pizza.)

Anyway I lift weights, for I am a stud, but never did much cardio (for it inhibits muscular hypertrophy (of which I require lots (for I am a stud))), so I hit the treadmill more frequently and a year later my blood work came back with a glucose level of 87 mg/㎗. So that tears it; so studly am I that I defeated yes DEFEATED prediabetes.

Then the year after that, I got a letter from doc's office about 10 days after my physical, saying "You are prediabetic." See, my glucose was 101 mg/㎗, and "diabetes mellitus is fasting glucose of 125 mg or above per ㎗."

I had in fact fasted prior to that physical, but I slipped and had one of those Listerine breath strips an hour or so before the appointment. Hard to think there'd be enough sugar in one of those (is there any?) to push the blood glucose up from, say, my dream of 87, to the level of "prediabetic." :boggled:

I found this especially concerning since, in the weeks yes WEEKS before my physical, I had avoided all sweet stuff - I had suspended my periodic indulgences in Byerly's bakery selections because I wanted awesome glucose numbers. Instead, they told me, I got prediabetes. :banghead:

Last year I didn't go for a physical. (That way, see, I got no letter from no doc, and therefore do not have prediabetes (see). )

This past year, I have climbed the five flights o' stairs in my apartment building quite a lot. I used to do five trips up or sometimes ten trips up, now I've graduated to where I don't do it unless I'm doing ten trips up (and sometimes with four yes FOUR bonus trips, for an grand total of 70 yes SEVENTY flights) and I'm also now doing it with a 5℔ ankle weight on each leg. I've been doing that 3 to 5 days a week for the past three or four months or so.

I've also been laying off the bakery goodies.

My physical is on Monday.

Should we start a betting pool on where my blood glucose will be by then?
Pancakes are delicious.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:25 am

With diet and exercise, you can keep it manageable. You do not have much choice really if you want to stay off the needle later in life. Keep your body weight down, very important.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Airstud
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:51 am

WarRI1 wrote:
With diet and exercise, you can keep it manageable.


Eh. Seems like when I was doing that it went from 87 to 101 :boggled:
Pancakes are delicious.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:57 am

Airstud wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
With diet and exercise, you can keep it manageable.


Eh. Seems like when I was doing that it went from 87 to 101 :boggled:


If you drive your sugar too low, your body compensates and makes its own Glucose with the Liver. I exercise three times daily, and if I overdo it at night, I will have a higher count in the morning. Everything in moderation.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
Airstud
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:04 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Airstud wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
If you drive your sugar too low, your body compensates and makes its own Glucose


:boggled:
Pancakes are delicious.
 
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WarRI1
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:10 am

Airstud wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Airstud wrote:


:boggled:


My wife would agree with your motto, pancakes are delicious, but not good for some. :white:
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
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einsteinboricua
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:48 am

You may very well be diabetic already and exercise is what's keeping it at pre-diabetic levels.

Sometimes, it's genetics. I haven't exercised in quite a while and my diet is not terrible, but not good either, yet I have cholesterol levels that many people would kill for (HDL>100, LDL<100, Triglycerides<50). A coworker, however, has the opposite (low HDL, high LDL, and high triglycerides) but he DOES exercise and follows a better diet.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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DL717
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:40 am

Airstud wrote:
Four years ago, see; I went for my (supposed-to-be-)yearly physical. Got a phone call ten days later that my blood work showed a glucose level of 105 mg/㎗ and that that there level is "pre-diabetic." I think maybe the nurse had said "bordering on prediabetic." Or something. But lay off the candy, she said (and I don't eat candy), soda (I rarely drink soda and I've not drunk a full-sugar soda in about eleven years), get more exercise (I work out like a m!#@&er f)@#*er; for I am a stud), and lower your carb intake.

(Uh-oh. I quite like pizza.)

Anyway I lift weights, for I am a stud, but never did much cardio (for it inhibits muscular hypertrophy (of which I require lots (for I am a stud))), so I hit the treadmill more frequently and a year later my blood work came back with a glucose level of 87 mg/㎗. So that tears it; so studly am I that I defeated yes DEFEATED prediabetes.

Then the year after that, I got a letter from doc's office about 10 days after my physical, saying "You are prediabetic." See, my glucose was 101 mg/㎗, and "diabetes mellitus is fasting glucose of 125 mg or above per ㎗."

I had in fact fasted prior to that physical, but I slipped and had one of those Listerine breath strips an hour or so before the appointment. Hard to think there'd be enough sugar in one of those (is there any?) to push the blood glucose up from, say, my dream of 87, to the level of "prediabetic." :boggled:

I found this especially concerning since, in the weeks yes WEEKS before my physical, I had avoided all sweet stuff - I had suspended my periodic indulgences in Byerly's bakery selections because I wanted awesome glucose numbers. Instead, they told me, I got prediabetes. :banghead:

Last year I didn't go for a physical. (That way, see, I got no letter from no doc, and therefore do not have prediabetes (see). )

This past year, I have climbed the five flights o' stairs in my apartment building quite a lot. I used to do five trips up or sometimes ten trips up, now I've graduated to where I don't do it unless I'm doing ten trips up (and sometimes with four yes FOUR bonus trips, for an grand total of 70 yes SEVENTY flights) and I'm also now doing it with a 5℔ ankle weight on each leg. I've been doing that 3 to 5 days a week for the past three or four months or so.

I've also been laying off the bakery goodies.

My physical is on Monday.

Should we start a betting pool on where my blood glucose will be by then?


I had high blood sugar, like diabetic high blood sugar and it scared the crap out of me, after sitting on my butt at a desk all day for 15 years and developed a thyroid problem. Didn’t help that I put on 50 pounds in the process. Got on a bike after having not ridden for nearly 35 years when I raced competitively. I now do 30 miles 3x a week and a ride for 5-6 hours on the weekend building to 50 miles 3x a week and 10 hours on the weekend. Blood sugar is normal now, thyroid function has improved tremendously, and I dropped 60 pounds down to 180 where I was in high school and it solved a ton of problems, like a bad back and eating what I want. Now I’m chiseled like a 30 year old and my wife digs it. It’s not necessarily about working out like a stud. Keep the BMI down. Cycling will do that for you because of how it burns everything. I’m working on doing the RAAM from Santa Monica to New York right now. I’m waiting to do it for a couple of years to move up an age group to make it a bit easier as you can get dropped. I did a qualifier last year with no problem to see if I had the stamina, but in comparison to the real deal, that’s nothing compared to spending 10 days on a bike. Not so much a race to me as it is the challenge.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
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Aesma
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:04 pm

You seem to be doing a lot of exercise, maybe that's screwing up the results ? I need to lose a lot of weight so have reduced my sugar intake, but am still far from eating what I should, and despite doctors looking at me thinking I for sure should be diabetic or prediabetic, I am not. Not doing any exercise either. There is a fitness trail at work so I'm doing that with colleagues at lunch time but it's very new.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:59 pm

It is not just sugars but all carbs you have to watch out for. Carbohydrates ALL turn to glucose in your blood stream. A good book to read is Jenny's Blood Sugars 101. All of her information is available for free on her web site, but the book is easiest to read the parts you may want.

I have to use insulin, three types to keep my BGs at true normal levels - 90 day average of 86. Many doctors go hysterical over this. Mostly they worry about lows, but ignore the complications from staying with constant highs.

There are cheap meters at Walmart and online. The really important one to watch if you want to not progress to a diagnosis of diabetic is your two hours after a meal readings. My goal is to not go over 110 after dinner. Others choose a goal of not over 140, even not over 180. We are all entitled to read up on all of this, and then choose our own goal.

A Long Island doctor who pioneered much of this would advise pilots that to avoid a formal diagnosis of diabetes (a career killer) they needed to follow a strict diet, and he would prescribe Metformin to help them lose weight - but it often also helps lower BGs.
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Ken777
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:05 pm

My doc moved to the A1c blood test years go because it's far more accurate and you can't hide your level by fasting a few days before your exam. A1c shows your level over 3 months and is fast to use. I get stuck at the doc's by the nurse and the Doc has the results in a few minutes. The older you are the more room you have and men are expected to have a slightly higher level than women.

IMHO, the target range for blood sugars are in the 80 to 120 range. As a diabetic I look to have 150 as my target in order to avoid my levels falling. If it goes to 70 I'm starting to feel sick, lower and the sweats hit and I'm in a panic to boost it up. My lowest numbers were in the 30s and I can assure you don't want to be anywhere close to that. Falling blood furans are far more dangerous than being a little too sweet.

If you are concerned about where you are during the day then get a test kit. Take your blood before meals and then 2 hours after the meal. The kits are pretty cheap and don't require a Rx. Spend a few bucks and get one tube of test strips, stick yourself on the side of your finger and get informed.
 
bunumuring
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:19 am

Hey airstud,
I was diagnosed with diabetes out of the blue about 18 months ago.
Major change of diet necessary (Hello Coke Zero, my new best friend!) and increased exercise required but not much else. Medicate morning and night and blood test 4-6 times daily.
I had it added to my frequent flyer profiles and I've had no drama on Qantas nor Jetstar. I haven't flown on any other airlines in the last 18 months.
Good luck,
Bunumuring
I just wanna live while I'm alive!
 
seat64k
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:13 pm

Hey Airstud,

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor so I may have the nuances wrong . You mention high glucose and pre-diabetes but have you had your insulin tested? Also, there are a variety of other things that can affect this. Stress (elevated cortisol) is one. If you're on gear (HGH in particular) you'll want to look into their side effects too and make sure your doctor knows exactly what and how much you're taking.

Airstud wrote:
Anyway I lift weights, for I am a stud, but never did much cardio (for it inhibits muscular hypertrophy (of which I require lots (for I am a stud)))


This is vastly overblown broscience. Cardio does not kill gains, except if you are on the tail end of the distribution for both (i.e. elite body builder and running a marathon every weekend). For the rest of us, it's statistically insignificant. 2-3 hours of cardio a week will not affect your gains in any way. HIIT in particular for maximum value for time. And if you're really paranoid about it, go for the stationary bike. The movements closely resemble the squat (every seen pro cycler's legs?) and lacks the joint impact of running.

Obligatory annecdote: I do a DXA every 3 months to track my progress. I'm working to lose the fat (28% BF at last check), gain strength and improve my marathon time. Any muscle gain is a bonus. I'm in a 1000kcal deficit (have been for nearly two years with the odd falling off the wagon), lift 3-6 times per week as my schedule allows, and run 3times a week. Between the last two scans I lost 4.1% BF, gained just shy of of 4kg muscle (so 1.3kg per month or 0.7lbs per week). All this while you're not supposed to gain on a deficit :) Once thing that does kill gains though: not enough sleep.
 
Airstud
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:55 am

Well. My physical is in ten hours and ten minutes. Just had my last bit of food before turning in for the night (in about an hour or so).

Climbed me my 50 flights of stairs today, I did - ankle weights on and all.

At this point I'm less concerned with how the blood work is going to come back and more concerned with how am I going to celebrate dietary freedom after the appointment?
Pancakes are delicious.
 
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DL717
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Tue Oct 23, 2018 12:34 pm

Airstud wrote:
Well. My physical is in ten hours and ten minutes. Just had my last bit of food before turning in for the night (in about an hour or so).

Climbed me my 50 flights of stairs today, I did - ankle weights on and all.

At this point I'm less concerned with how the blood work is going to come back and more concerned with how am I going to celebrate dietary freedom after the appointment?


When he tells you you’re a fat diabetic, go get a bike, ride it, then come back here and thank me for the advice.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
Ken777
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:02 pm

Airstud wrote:
Well. My physical is in ten hours and ten minutes. Just had my last bit of food before turning in for the night (in about an hour or so).

Climbed me my 50 flights of stairs today, I did - ankle weights on and all.

At this point I'm less concerned with how the blood work is going to come back and more concerned with how am I going to celebrate dietary freedom after the appointment?


If your Doc uses the A1c test (pretty well standard in the US if you are not pregnant) then what you eat today or in the morning before the test won't matter. The A1c covers the sugar levels for the last 3 months - a real pain for those who used to cheat and starve before an appointment in the old days. The A1c does give you a target for the next 3 months. If you are, say, at 8.2, you can set a goal to be in the upper 7's.

BTW, don't let your Doc see your signature. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
 
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DL717
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Wed Oct 24, 2018 3:33 am

I think he died during the exam. It’s been more than 24 hours.
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
Airstud
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:43 am

DL717 wrote:
I think he died


Gross.
Pancakes are delicious.
 
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DL717
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:48 am

Airstud wrote:
DL717 wrote:
I think he died


Gross.


Well hell man, you start a big ass thread all worked up about your health and then you vanish. What are we supposed to think?
Everything is chits and giggles until you get old enough to giggle and then you chit.
 
Ken777
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:16 am

So what was the news from Doc?

"Gross"

Think that's gross, wait for your first Urologist appointment. :eyepopping:
 
Airstud
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:26 am

Ken777 wrote:
So what was the news from Doc?


A) That there is not agreement about the line between normal glucose levels and pre-diabetic. 101 and 105 are "borderline" he said. So I did or didn't have prediabetes two years ago when it came back as 101 mg/㎗

2) News schmews; they drew the blood on Monday (gross) and, if history is any indication, I'll get the results in the mail in 10 days

III) They're evidently not doing prostate exams anymore as part of a man's physical? (Not that I craved one.)


Ken777 wrote:
Think that's gross, wait for your first Urologist appointment. :eyepopping:


Way ahead of you in the grossness department; I'm already under specialist care: A gastroenterologist's. :yuck:
Pancakes are delicious.
 
Ken777
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 26, 2018 4:01 am

Airstud wrote:
Ken777 wrote:
So what was the news from Doc?


A) That there is not agreement about the line between normal glucose levels and pre-diabetic. 101 and 105 are "borderline" he said. So I did or didn't have prediabetes two years ago when it came back as 101 mg/㎗

2) News schmews; they drew the blood on Monday (gross) and, if history is any indication, I'll get the results in the mail in 10 days

III) They're evidently not doing prostate exams anymore as part of a man's physical? (Not that I craved one.)

Way ahead of you in the grossness department; I'm already under specialist care: A gastroenterologist's. :yuck:


I'm surprised it takes around 10 days to get results when you get results in about 5 seconds with a home finger stick. I assume that the BG level is a line on a full blood report.

My GP doesn't do the finger wave, but my Urologist used to - when I had a prostate, The PSA is an indicator, especially changes in hate level, but (unfortunately) is a better indicator for most guys.

You'll be pleased to know that the gastroenterologist's term for the scoping of the colon is :"looking up old friends." At least you get to sleep through it,
 
Airstud
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:32 am

Ken777 wrote:
The PSA is an indicator, especially changes in hate level


:boggled:
Pancakes are delicious.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:21 pm

Airstud - so what have you decided to do, and are you happy with the doc? Your doctor saying there is not agreement about pre-diabetic levels is a good sign, my primary care person was dogmatic at that point that I had no problems. As I was having eye surgery for eye problems typically caused by diabetes.
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salttee
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:42 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
my primary care person was dogmatic at that point that I had no problems. As I was having eye surgery for eye problems typically caused by diabetes.


This is why I go without a "primary care provider"; unless you luck out and find someone who actually has some real knowledge (I have known a few, but they are unavailable to me now) you are almost doomed to have a zealot who goes to one extreme or the other, or someone who is just guessing and who spends most of their energy covering up the fact that they are guessing.

I have VA health care which is hard to boycott because everything is free including expensive tests, CAT scans etc. When I tried to dump the kid right out of school who was my assigned health care provider I found out that the only way to accomplish that in the VA system is to immolate yourself at their front door. Being that I was unwilling to do just that, I finally told the manager of the primary health care providers that I wanted nothing to do with her or her department. So although I solved that problem I now have a problem getting appointments to the various clinics the VA system has. Some clinics will see me but some won't see me without a recommendation from the department of incompetence.

I have used their ER department a few times but I don't think they'd accept a complaint about pre-diabetes, so why fight it. I'll just manage my diabetes issues myself, and if I have to, I'll go to a private provider, but make it clear to them that they will not be my primary provider.

Anyone who wants to advocate for nationalized healthcare should take a look at the VA system. You might change your mind.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:48 pm

I have had great providers at the VA. I also volunteer at one of the vet organization, and the majority of users like it. I use my private insurance and Medicare mostly at the local community clinic There are tricks to doing all of this however.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
salttee
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:48 am

I used to volunteer at the VA too.

How could your primary care provider be "great" when they hire kids just out of nursing school for that job and as soon as they get a little actual experience they migrate to somewhere else in the system or just quit and get a real job? Ive seen that over and over. These are government workers, at least their supervisors are primarily government employees and health care providers secondarily. They are all heavy on procedures and very light of diagnostic ability.

I had the dermatology clinic reassure me that a lesion on my face wasn't cancer - and they don't do cosmetic treatment - so they did nothing. Two separate private dermatologists diagnosed cancer (along with two of their labs) and I had it removed at one of the private clinics.

I had a hand injury last year, a deep gash that did nerve damage. The VA hand specialists said it was just a flesh wound and even refused me pain meds. I demanded to see the head of the department and his response was to look at the X-rays once again. I was too disgusted to inform him that nerves don't show up on X-rays. I walked out on him as he was just trying to cover for his lackey. Now, 9 months later, I still have intermittent pain in various places in my hand and wrist.

I could list several more of their incompetent bumbling fails, but the worst thing about them is the fact that they absolutely will not listen to any questioning of their care.

I experienced an episode where I was in the same room with a vet that was shattered by an IED in Afghanistan, he is a physical wreck from head to toe and he wanted a $20 medical device that wasn't called for in the procedures. I watched as the practitioner pretended to listen to him: then he reasonably and emphatically re-stated his need for this device and she again told him that it wasn't available for him - thus went three episodes of this when she stepped out of the room for something else. I then took one of the airway pieces off the shelf and slid it over to him and pointed to his backpack. And that was that.

The profound thing about it was that I got the experience of witnessing a conversation that I had experienced first hand a half a dozen times: played out with someone else.

Heaven help us if these kind of people take over the entire nation's health care.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:28 pm

My experiences have been good. My wife is on one of the better HMOs, but I wouldn't rate her care any better than my VA experience. They do have a much better Urgent Care system.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
Airstud
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:29 pm

salttee wrote:
I had the dermatology clinic reassure me that a lesion on my face wasn't cancer - and they don't do cosmetic treatment - so they did nothing. Two separate private dermatologists diagnosed cancer (along with two of their labs) and I had it removed at one of the private clinics.


What kind of recourse is available when a thing like that happens? Were you able to bring a complaint against the place that misdiagnosed you?
Pancakes are delicious.
 
salttee
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:03 am

Well, I could write a letter to my congressman.

LOL
 
Ken777
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:20 am

have both VA and Medicare+Supplemental Private Insurance. I've been happy with the VA in general terms. They deliver my meds, including insulin pens, at no charge. I have received my utopia from Medicare, but a PA from the VA ordered an extended Oxygen test. After 24 hours they ordered Oxygen to overnight with the autopap as well as the small O2 bottles for during the day - at no charge. I really can't complain about them as they have always provided the tests & imaging that I need as well as delivering the medications.

The VA does have problems in that the politicians do limit what they can do. Start with paying market rates for medical professionals. They already have some good residency programs. Now they have to be better in keeping the good ones.

The VA also was at the lead in developing patient information systems, even though it takes some time to learn. They are in the process of "modernizing" which will probably causing some headaches. It is already a pretty good system. If I am traveling to, say, Houston and get sick I can head to the VA Hospital there and my medical records are available to the Doctors there.

As for problems at the VA - now you know why I am totally covered with Medicare for care and a bit of medications. I had surgery for both kidney and lung cancers and I was able to pick my surgeons. Medicare and supplemental insurance covered every cent.
 
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EstherLouise
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:36 am

Airstud wrote:
2) News schmews; they drew the blood on Monday (gross) and, if history is any indication, I'll get the results in the mail in 10 days


Weird. My lab results are emailed to me within 5 minutes of them being posted in my chart... usually by the time I get home. I have access using MyChart. Then, my doc and I can converse using an email client in MyChart. Saves on me having to make follow-up appointments.
712 722 732 734 737 738 741 742 744 752 762 772 A310 DC91 DC93 DC94 DC1030 DC1040 F100 MD82 MD83
 
Airstud
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:20 am

Cholesterol 164
Triglycerides 51
HDL Cholesterol 60
Cholesterol/HDL Ratio Screen 2.7
LDL Calculated 94
Non HDL Chol, Calc 104
Length of fast 12.0 (is what it said on the printout even though it was actually 11 and the chick who scheduled my appointment for me told me it had to be ten :boggled:)

Lab glucose 99

HIV-1 p24 Ag and HIV-1/HIV-2 Ab Value: Nonreactive Ref range: Nonreactive.


I assume that's HIV negative, which is a good thing; and I don't think my triglycerides have ever been as low as 51 before; but on the rest of them I was hoping for better
Pancakes are delicious.
 
Airstud
Topic Author
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Re: Blood sugar thread

Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:42 pm

It's a pretty studly triglycerides number, it is.
Pancakes are delicious.

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Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos