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Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:09 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
Reading comprehension fail. He's saying - correctly - that it's bad for Brits like me.


I don't think you will be really hurt. Maybe some restrictions on freedom to move around in EU but that's all and it should be solved rather fast.

Unless you are running out to promote Daily Mail, Telegraph or Express agenda, people seems to have zero problem with well educated british.
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:43 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:

To the detriment of both sides. Since we all know the facts about EU migrants to the UK right?


Good for some, bad for others


Reading comprehension fail. He's saying - correctly - that it's bad for Brits like me.


Actually was mean't both ways. I'm a Brit living in the EU so I think the way we have been treated is appalling and we could be severely limited in other countries we could move to, if we so wished. At the same time you are taking away the right of youngsters to be able to choose where they live and work. Rather a shame considering up to 70% of under 25 year olds want to remain in the EU.

At the same time a favourite Brexiteer 'opinion' is that EU immigrants to the UK are a drain on resources, cause the NHS all sorts of problems, and are one of the main reasons they voted to leave. Which goes against all established facts and ignores the key 3 month rule that the UK government never enacted, where most other EU countries do. So ignoring facts, and blaming the wrong people for the problems they think exist, which don't.
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:40 pm

Olddog wrote:
I don't think you will be really hurt.

if you are a UK citizen wanting to live, work or retire in the EU26 (i.e. EU except ROI) your LEGAL rights to do this will be removed from you on Brexit. This is part and parcel with Theresa May seeking to cease freedom of movement. It will work both ways and impede our rights, i.e. not just restrict rights of those who want to come to the UK.

For me and many others, either in the UK now and considering their futures, those with children wanting them to enjoy the same freedoms they enjoyed, and of course those currently living in the EU this would hurt.

Olddog wrote:
Maybe some restrictions on freedom to move around in EU but that's all and it should be solved rather fast.

All indications are we will need travel permits to visit the EU on holiday and employment VISA's to work there, which would mean a sponsoring employer, or money or contacts.

For those who have means and contacts (the "establishment" no less) and higher educations it will hurt less, for those with less means wanting bar work in the summer, or chalet work in the winter or to tour with their band things are not so easy.

Nothing in this area looks to be "solved" in any way to meet the legal freedoms we enjoyed whilst members of the EU. indeed far from it, this is one area where our legal rights and freedoms are almost certainly going to be massively curtailed.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Nov 07, 2018 3:58 pm

Richard28 wrote:
More bad news with jobs and money leaving the UK through Brexit, yesterday the automotive sector, today the financial sector....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium-europe
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -of-brexit

Unfortunately its getting easier and easier to find such stories as we get closer to March....


Not to worry. The usual suspects will be along shortly with meaningless catchphrases, a meme or two and a couple of pointless hashtags.
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noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:12 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:

To the detriment of both sides. Since we all know the facts about EU migrants to the UK right?


Good for some, bad for others


Reading comprehension fail. He's saying - correctly - that it's bad for Brits like me.


No I am referring to certain professions (mainly construction) that have seen wages slashed owing to influx of Eastern European migrants, happy to work at 8 quid an hour.
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:22 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
No I am referring to certain professions (mainly construction) that have seen wages slashed owing to influx of Eastern European migrants, happy to work at 8 quid an hour.


But your government, not the EU wanted that. France for example used the 7 years delay allowed under EU rules....
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:25 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

Good for some, bad for others


Reading comprehension fail. He's saying - correctly - that it's bad for Brits like me.


No I am referring to certain professions (mainly construction) that have seen wages slashed owing to influx of Eastern European migrants, happy to work at 8 quid an hour.


I know a Scottish plumber living two streets away. He's doing mighty fine, catering mostly to English speaking customers.

Over the summer he brings his nephew too because work keeps piling up.

Hasn't asked for a Spanish passport yet, but it looks like he'll have to.
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:34 pm

It is problem I noticed often with British on the continent. They tend to stick between English speaking people, read british press and british TV.

I was a bit shocked listening to British asking french citizenship and almost unable to use any french word.....
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:41 pm

Olddog wrote:
It is problem I noticed often with British on the continent. They tend to stick between English speaking people, read british press and british TV.

I was a bit shocked listening to British asking french citizenship and almost unable to use any french word.....


We are very poor at learning foreign languages. Probably a consequence of English being the most spoken global language.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Nov 07, 2018 4:50 pm

If you speak English, you speak the Global language, why learn another?
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Nov 07, 2018 6:55 pm

Does "When in Roma, act like the romans" ring a bell ?
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:31 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

Good for some, bad for others


Reading comprehension fail. He's saying - correctly - that it's bad for Brits like me.


Actually was mean't both ways. I'm a Brit living in the EU so I think the way we have been treated is appalling and we could be severely limited in other countries we could move to, if we so wished. At the same time you are taking away the right of youngsters to be able to choose where they live and work. Rather a shame considering up to 70% of under 25 year olds want to remain in the EU.

At the same time a favourite Brexiteer 'opinion' is that EU immigrants to the UK are a drain on resources, cause the NHS all sorts of problems, and are one of the main reasons they voted to leave. Which goes against all established facts and ignores the key 3 month rule that the UK government never enacted, where most other EU countries do. So ignoring facts, and blaming the wrong people for the problems they think exist, which don't.


Why didn't the UK enact this and certain other controls on immigration that other EU countries have adopted?
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frmrCapCadet
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:34 pm

We English speakers are poor at speaking another language. And a peculiarity, I know a number of young people who have majors or minors with a second language, but generally it does not seem to carry on to related employment later in life.
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noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:55 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:

Reading comprehension fail. He's saying - correctly - that it's bad for Brits like me.


Actually was mean't both ways. I'm a Brit living in the EU so I think the way we have been treated is appalling and we could be severely limited in other countries we could move to, if we so wished. At the same time you are taking away the right of youngsters to be able to choose where they live and work. Rather a shame considering up to 70% of under 25 year olds want to remain in the EU.

At the same time a favourite Brexiteer 'opinion' is that EU immigrants to the UK are a drain on resources, cause the NHS all sorts of problems, and are one of the main reasons they voted to leave. Which goes against all established facts and ignores the key 3 month rule that the UK government never enacted, where most other EU countries do. So ignoring facts, and blaming the wrong people for the problems they think exist, which don't.


Why didn't the UK enact this and certain other controls on immigration that other EU countries have adopted?


Tony Blair incompetence
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:46 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
SomebodyInTLS wrote:

Reading comprehension fail. He's saying - correctly - that it's bad for Brits like me.


Actually was mean't both ways. I'm a Brit living in the EU so I think the way we have been treated is appalling and we could be severely limited in other countries we could move to, if we so wished. At the same time you are taking away the right of youngsters to be able to choose where they live and work. Rather a shame considering up to 70% of under 25 year olds want to remain in the EU.

At the same time a favourite Brexiteer 'opinion' is that EU immigrants to the UK are a drain on resources, cause the NHS all sorts of problems, and are one of the main reasons they voted to leave. Which goes against all established facts and ignores the key 3 month rule that the UK government never enacted, where most other EU countries do. So ignoring facts, and blaming the wrong people for the problems they think exist, which don't.


Why didn't the UK enact this and certain other controls on immigration that other EU countries have adopted?


Well that's a good question. It's presumably still EU law so could have been introduced by any UK government since it was passed. So yes Blair, Brown, Cameron or May could have put it into place.

Why they didn't? Well as noviorbis77 says it could indeed be incompetence, and certainly based on how poorly a lot of MPs and MEPs have been shown to understand trade rules, economics, import/export with Brexit you can't rule that out. They might not have even known it existed if they're as useless as some may think. Alternatively they may have simply thought that the UK needed EU workers to fill roles UK workers can't (due to lack of skills), won't do them or simply a shortage. Perhaps thry didn't really think removing them after 3 months if they didn't have a job was time worth having the Home Office spending on it.

On the other hand it's completely conceivable that statistics have shown the amount of EU workers who stay longer than 3 months wirhout a job is tiny. Based on the productivity level reports compared to UK workers, average salary and average health and local council costs (much less than UK citizens) it could be a non issue.

The one group of EU citizens that should have always been sent packing are 'Irish Travellers'. Most of whom do not pay tax, have no fixed abode and offer nothing to UK whatsoever.

Either way, it is and was not the fault of the EU that the UK government didn't enact law it could have done. Any blame lies squarely at the door of UK MPs and Govenmnent. Perhaps it's high time we were better represented at home rather than looking across the channel for people to blame for all ills.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:26 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
Olddog wrote:
It is problem I noticed often with British on the continent. They tend to stick between English speaking people, read british press and british TV.

I was a bit shocked listening to British asking french citizenship and almost unable to use any french word.....


We are very poor at learning foreign languages. Probably a consequence of English being the most spoken global language.


It is the most spoken language globally, by a tiny fraction vs. Mandarin, but still just one in six people speak Englisch and the share of Englisch speakers in by far most countries is below 20% (to almost non-existent), even most of Europe have just ~50% or less. No need to travel far to be beyond easy access to englisch speakers. I have been to Airports where none of the Staff spoke Englisch, i suspect including the Tower as it only had domestic flights..

best regards
Thomas
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Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:38 pm

Another day, more proof of a Government minister not having a clue:

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/dominic ... -crossing/

“I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this but if you look at the U.K. and look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing."

No shi**!! I'm not sure whats worse, the fact he didn't know or the fact he's so stupid he thought it would be a good idea to tell everyone!

And these are the types of people Brexiteers expect to deliver trade deals. Honestly.
 
frmrCapCadet
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:41 pm

Reinhardt - Thanks, and had never heard of 'Irish Travelers' so googled it. Egad!
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Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:44 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Reinhardt - Thanks, and had never heard of 'Irish Travelers' so googled it. Egad!


If you've ever seen the movie "Snatch" you'll probably know of them by another, rather ruder name. I've had many dealings/ run ins with them, and they are not nice people.
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:30 pm

Olddog wrote:
Does "When in Roma, act like the romans" ring a bell ?


Didn't the Romans go around imposing their ways on other people at the point of a sword for the best part of several hundred years (over a 1000 if you count the Eastern Empire)?
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:13 am

Reinhardt wrote:
Another day, more proof of a Government minister not having a clue:

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit/dominic ... -crossing/

“I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this but if you look at the U.K. and look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing."

No shi**!! I'm not sure whats worse, the fact he didn't know or the fact he's so stupid he thought it would be a good idea to tell everyone!

And these are the types of people Brexiteers expect to deliver trade deals. Honestly.

:banghead:

The worst thing is that pretty much every single judgment I've had of these brexiters all along is fully confirmed or even exceeded in the negative over time.

It's approaching the point where even I might be tempted to want our negotiators to rescue the UK from its clown troupe of a government.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:36 am

Meanwhile, more details are emerging about TM's proposal to win the much needed transition period without need to give up Northern Ireland.
In a nutshell:
1/ UK to remain in an open-ended Customs Union with the EU
2/ future changes to this CU can only be made with mutual consent of both parties (no unilateral exit possible)
The EU is asking 2 things in return for such a UK wide Customs Union:
1/ access to UK fishing grounds for EU vessels
2/ the NI backstop included in the withdrawal text nevertheless because a CU alone does not fully solve the NI problem.
TM now wants to remove that last demand by agreeing on keeping the UK bound by EU rules on the Single Market, similar to how she promised an open border around this time last year and which has now lead to the proposal for a full CU by her as practical solution to that promise. The last proposal on full SM alignment can only lead to the UK also remaining in the SM once the FTA negotiations start and the practicalities are worked out...
Norway plus, here it comes. ;)
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:47 am

sabenapilot wrote:
Meanwhile, more details are emerging about TM's proposal to win the much needed transition period without need to give up Northern Ireland.
In a nutshell:
1/ UK to remain in an open-ended Customs Union with the EU
2/ future changes to this CU can only be made with mutual consent of both parties (no unilateral exit possible)
The EU is asking 2 things in return for such a UK wide Customs Union:
1/ access to UK fishing grounds for EU vessels
2/ the NI backstop included in the withdrawal text nevertheless because a CU alone does not fully solve the NI problem.
TM now wants to remove that last demand by agreeing on keeping the UK bound by EU rules on the Single Market, similar to how she promised an open border around this time last year and which has now lead to the proposal for a full CU by her as practical solution to that promise. The last proposal on full SM alignment can only lead to the UK also remaining in the SM once the FTA negotiations start and the practicalities are worked out...
Norway plus, here it comes. ;)


its all bordering on deception and double speak, with a backstops to the backstops also being discussed going back to the Irish Sea border solution, hated by Unionists and the DUP should the initial backstop fail.

TM's line on this is that it is not a problem as the first backstop will not fail.... !

Quite why TM cannot just be straight with people and declare Norway+ as the only solution that works for the various needs of the UK and get on with it.

The big concern for me with all this is that it is all dressed up as interim and for the negotiation period, whereas in reality the precise same problems will arise in negotiating any final deal in transition leading to practically the same solution, in the meantime uncertainty hurts the UK market, with no company in its right mind coming to the UK for manufacturing or services.
 
ChrisKen
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:07 pm

Richard28 wrote:
Quite why TM cannot just be straight with people and declare Norway+ as the only solution that works for the various needs of the UK and get on with it.

Because your average brexiteer's head will explode. But hey, we'll have our Blue (less useful) passports. :?
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:20 pm

And if TM finally agree that the only right place for the border is in the irish sea, things will be interesting to follow :)
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:42 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
Quite why TM cannot just be straight with people and declare Norway+ as the only solution that works for the various needs of the UK and get on with it.

Because your average brexiteer's head will explode. But hey, we'll have our Blue (less useful) passports. :?


You need to look at the big picture - we'll also have our commemorative 50p coins! :crazy:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:50 pm

Richard28 wrote:
Quite why TM cannot just be straight with people and declare Norway+ as the only solution that works for the various needs of the UK and get on with it.


Because TM is not running government for the best interests of the UK, but for the best interests of her own party, a party which has been banging on about Europe for over 30 years based on an outdated and overly self-flattering view of the UK's place in today's world as well as a total misunderstanding of how the EU really works.

If half of your party's politicians are being shown to have basically been talking pure nonsense for almost half their political life, you can't just admit to that as party leader and PM of course, can you? It would be self-destructive! Just look at how D. Raab got ridiculed for accidentally admitting the dead-obvious truth he didn't had a clue how interwoven and interconnected the UK truly is with the EU via France's Calais crossing!

In a representative democracy, the Tories would never have been able to turn their ridiculous fetish with Europe into official government policy, and they would have long been removed from power by now by a far more sane coalition government, one which would have the true core interests of the majority of the people to protect their job, their income and their family on its mind, rather than the career and reputation of a handful of out-of-touch politicians who's wet dream it is to become just as great and glorious as all those 19th century British politicians who's portraits they walk by whenever they go into Parliament, clearly forgetting we're living well in the 21st century by now and the world has changed. But under a first-past-the-post electoral system, the biggest minority party can far more easily gain absolute power and hold on to it if only it can reach out to enough people somehow, thus providing long term 'stability' if all goes well, or persist in its idiocracy if the biggest minority party happens to be a bunch of absolute nitwits like the Tories are today.
 
LJ
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:47 pm

ChrisKen wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
Quite why TM cannot just be straight with people and declare Norway+ as the only solution that works for the various needs of the UK and get on with it.

Because your average brexiteer's head will explode. But hey, we'll have our Blue (less useful) passports. :?


Your average Brexiteer's head will explode with this proposal as well as they aren't stupid and see that nothing changes.
 
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zkojq
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:39 am

Bregretxit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_q6RZqZaPw

Nice to see someone who can admit they were mislead, rather than digging their head into the sand.
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:26 pm

At least one member of the Johnson family talks some sense.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46162114
The UK needs to "pause and reflect" before doing something "irrevocably stupid" over Brexit, Jo Johnson said a day after quitting as a minister.

On BBC Radio 4's Today he called again for another referendum, saying what was being offered fell "spectacularly short" of what had been promised.

The ex-transport minister said it would be a "democratic travesty" to not have another vote.
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Nov 10, 2018 1:29 pm

scbriml wrote:
At least one member of the Johnson family talks some sense.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46162114
The UK needs to "pause and reflect" before doing something "irrevocably stupid" over Brexit, Jo Johnson said a day after quitting as a minister.

On BBC Radio 4's Today he called again for another referendum, saying what was being offered fell "spectacularly short" of what had been promised.

The ex-transport minister said it would be a "democratic travesty" to not have another vote.


Quite disturbing to hear this from a former minister whom is quitting. Must be because TM is heading to the great big concrete wall to bump trough, just before falling off the big white cliffs.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:16 pm

I think that piece from Marina Hyde is hilarious


“I hadn’t quite understood the full extent of this, but if you look at the UK and if you look at how we trade in goods, we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing.” Brexit secretary Dominic Raab, ladies and gentlemen, at some event on the tech industry this week.

“My wife would say [my Lego collection is] far too large, but I find Lego therapeutic … Everybody who does any difficult or stressful job needs a way to switch off. We all have different ways. Mine is Lego.” Culture secretary Jeremy Wright, ladies and gentlemen, on Talk Radio yesterday morning.

“I freely admit that when I started this job, I didn’t understand some of the deep-seated and deep-rooted issues that there are in Northern Ireland. I didn’t understand things like when elections are fought, for example, in Northern Ireland, people who are nationalists don’t vote for unionist parties and vice versa.” Northern Ireland secretary Karen Bradley, ladies and gentlemen, in a political magazine interview this September.
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:54 pm

OMG is that last quote real?! I am genuinely shocked that someone in that position apparently lacked even the basic hint of a suggestion of an idea of what the problems are in Northern Ireland...
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Aesma
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:05 am

Shows how much the government really cares about NI if that's who they put in charge...
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Boeing74741R
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:29 pm

If further proof is needed that British politics is in a mess at this time, here's another example of why Labour's Brexit stance is clear as mud...

The other day, Jeremy Corbyn gave an interview where he stated that Brexit can't be stopped: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 26871.html

A few days later, Sir Keir Starmer (Shadow Brexit Secretary) contradicts Corbyn by claiming that Brexit can be stopped: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 29426.html

Meanwhile, Emily Thornberry muddies the waters further by claiming the a new referendum (or so-called People's Vote) is still an option, which effectively lends weight to Starmer's claims if an option to remain in the EU is on any new ballot: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46168194

There are plenty of other examples of high profile Labour figures contradicting each other over Brexit. It's also a reminder why, despite the current government's issues, the Opposition are not fit for office.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:19 pm

As long as politicians not be held personally liable for the mess they create, nothing will change.
I am sure Mrs. May is looking forward to her retirement with fancy aristocratic titles, gold-rimmed pensions and a nice mansion to live in.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:26 pm

Indeed, the most probably soon-to-be baroness and ex-PM May is probably more pre-occupied with negotiating a good deal for her very interesting memoirs than she is busy with getting a good deal for the UK: she actually never promised a good deal, just the best possible... I expect this subtle difference also to be her line of defense in a couple of months when things turn really nasty in the UK as the full weight of the decision to leave on completely disillusional grounds starts to be felt by the ordinary people.
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:27 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpjtqASoHe4

From Gordon Brown today. Despite what people think what he did when he was Chancellor, this speech is 100% spot on.
 
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Richard28
Posts: 2481
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:44 pm

Boeing74741R wrote:
There are plenty of other examples of high profile Labour figures contradicting each other over Brexit. It's also a reminder why, despite the current government's issues, the Opposition are not fit for office.


Indeed.... at times like these Her Majesties most loyal opposition should be flourishing..... instead they are languishing and seemingly letting the government get away with blue murder.

Which is also why another General Election (Labours preferred way forward) will not sort this mess out... giving the people a clear final say with a peoples vote is the only logical way forward IMHO.
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:59 pm

Richard28 wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
There are plenty of other examples of high profile Labour figures contradicting each other over Brexit. It's also a reminder why, despite the current government's issues, the Opposition are not fit for office.


Indeed.... at times like these Her Majesties most loyal opposition should be flourishing..... instead they are languishing and seemingly letting the government get away with blue murder.

Which is also why another General Election (Labours preferred way forward) will not sort this mess out... giving the people a clear final say with a peoples vote is the only logical way forward IMHO.


Corbyn is anti EU. Always has been

https://youtu.be/j_qvndd4d-4
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:09 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
There are plenty of other examples of high profile Labour figures contradicting each other over Brexit. It's also a reminder why, despite the current government's issues, the Opposition are not fit for office.


Indeed.... at times like these Her Majesties most loyal opposition should be flourishing..... instead they are languishing and seemingly letting the government get away with blue murder.

Which is also why another General Election (Labours preferred way forward) will not sort this mess out... giving the people a clear final say with a peoples vote is the only logical way forward IMHO.


Corbyn is anti EU. Always has been

https://youtu.be/j_qvndd4d-4


Which considering what employees rights exist because of the EU, how the normal working folk (i.e traditional Labour voters) will be hit hardest with Brexit I am constantly amazed he cannot see the bigger picture and come out and say the country should stay. If his opinion on the way commerce and mis-understanding of EU internal movement of workers is greater than my first sentence, then he has no right to lead the labour party and should resign. He is utterly useless right now.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 2307
Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:24 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:36 pm

My guess: Corbyn remains (pun not intended) one of the last true socialists in the entire world. He really believes all that sh*t. Almost all of the lefties I know are 'Scandinavian Capitalists', and the EU is pretty committed to that sort of thing too. May promised to execute (pun, but can't figure out where it lands) the Brexit vote, and will die politically trying to do so.
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 276
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:53 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:

Indeed.... at times like these Her Majesties most loyal opposition should be flourishing..... instead they are languishing and seemingly letting the government get away with blue murder.

Which is also why another General Election (Labours preferred way forward) will not sort this mess out... giving the people a clear final say with a peoples vote is the only logical way forward IMHO.


Corbyn is anti EU. Always has been

https://youtu.be/j_qvndd4d-4


Which considering what employees rights exist because of the EU, how the normal working folk (i.e traditional Labour voters) will be hit hardest with Brexit I am constantly amazed he cannot see the bigger picture and come out and say the country should stay. If his opinion on the way commerce and mis-understanding of EU internal movement of workers is greater than my first sentence, then he has no right to lead the labour party and should resign. He is utterly useless right now.


Why are you assuming all workers rights will automatically disappear after Brexit?

Our maternity/paternity rules for workers are far better than EU directives.

The trouble with Brexit, people are obsessed on the doom and gloom.
 
JJJ
Posts: 3039
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:50 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
Boeing74741R wrote:
There are plenty of other examples of high profile Labour figures contradicting each other over Brexit. It's also a reminder why, despite the current government's issues, the Opposition are not fit for office.


Indeed.... at times like these Her Majesties most loyal opposition should be flourishing..... instead they are languishing and seemingly letting the government get away with blue murder.

Which is also why another General Election (Labours preferred way forward) will not sort this mess out... giving the people a clear final say with a peoples vote is the only logical way forward IMHO.


Corbyn is anti EU. Always has been

https://youtu.be/j_qvndd4d-4


And May used to be pro-EU. None of those things mean much nowadays.
 
LJ
Posts: 4575
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:02 pm

The Brexit party is getting interesting by the day. China, US and 10 other countries want assurances from the EU that thery won't be affected negatively. Seems that they don't want splitting part of the EU quotas when the UK leaves.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-12/u-s-china-10-other-countries-seek-brexit-assurances-at-wto
 
Olddog
Topic Author
Posts: 810
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:06 pm

It is expected. Each camp trying to take an vantage when the situation change :)
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:04 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:

Why are you assuming all workers rights will automatically disappear after Brexit?

Our maternity/paternity rules for workers are far better than EU directives.

The trouble with Brexit, people are obsessed on the doom and gloom.


Many Tory MPs currently in cabinet positions, those in the "ERP" and other Brexiteer MPs (who have had far more media exposure than their intellect or positions have warranted) have called for the UK to become a low tax, low 'red tape' economy. Some of these MPs have outside interests who will greatly benefit with reduced 'red tape', lower taxes and certain nationalised sectors being opened up.

'Red Tape' is actually employee protections, consumer rights, product safety, EU wide harmonised standards. Some of these will entirely likely be pushed as being flexible in the case of a no deal, because countries wanting to deal with the UK on WTO terms will demand it. Whether it's lower food standards, lower electrical standards, working time directive changes etc etc.

I do not trust any of the current Govenment to leave these things untouched, based purely on their appalling record over the last few years, and what many of them have said during Brexit. How anyone else still has faith is beyond me.

We're "obssesed by the doom and gloom" because that's all we see. We don't see any positives. We see a government and significant portion of the population trying to continue with something that ALL the experts (with no vested interests), Govenment data and people who are properly read say is utterly crazy. A vote which never should have happened, that was based on lies (from both sides), fraudulent and with most people completely uniformed.
 
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Aesma
Posts: 10592
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:04 am

I've heard a couple French economists worried that Brexit might work for the UK. In their scenario the UK would indeed become a tax heaven, entirely turned towards financial services, providing shelter for companies, etc. How would that benefit anyone outside the City is your guess.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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Aesma
Posts: 10592
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:05 am

Boeing74741R wrote:
If further proof is needed that British politics is in a mess at this time, here's another example of why Labour's Brexit stance is clear as mud...

The other day, Jeremy Corbyn gave an interview where he stated that Brexit can't be stopped: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 26871.html

A few days later, Sir Keir Starmer (Shadow Brexit Secretary) contradicts Corbyn by claiming that Brexit can be stopped: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 29426.html

Meanwhile, Emily Thornberry muddies the waters further by claiming the a new referendum (or so-called People's Vote) is still an option, which effectively lends weight to Starmer's claims if an option to remain in the EU is on any new ballot: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46168194

There are plenty of other examples of high profile Labour figures contradicting each other over Brexit. It's also a reminder why, despite the current government's issues, the Opposition are not fit for office.


They're not fit for office because they're divided on Brexit ? Then what does that make of the people actually in office, extremely unfit ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Klaus
Posts: 20890
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:16 am

Aesma wrote:
I've heard a couple French economists worried that Brexit might work for the UK. In their scenario the UK would indeed become a tax heaven, entirely turned towards financial services, providing shelter for companies, etc. How would that benefit anyone outside the City is your guess.

It would also not be tolerated by the EU, and could not be tolerated.

That would almost automatically preclude amicable trade relations and rather open the door to EU sanctions, similar to other tax evasion shelters.

The damage to the UK would almost certainly outweigh the damage to the EU.
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