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Arion640
Posts: 1983
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:27 pm

Bostrom wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Ireland is the UK in all but name and government.


You've said a lot of silly things in these threads, but this is the winner by some margin. Congrats!


Can we be sure it isn't the UK that is just an extension on the ROI?


Yes, because the ROI stemmed from the UK.
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:18 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Full steam ahead. Lets get going.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... s-46016359

How long will it take for one of you to compare this to blue passports?


It's a massive victory. This is what Brexit is all about. I'm so proud! :liar:
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There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
Arion640
Posts: 1983
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:09 am

scbriml wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Full steam ahead. Lets get going.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... s-46016359

How long will it take for one of you to compare this to blue passports?


It's a massive victory. This is what Brexit is all about. I'm so proud! :liar:


I love how you paint this as something leavers actually wanted, along with blue passports. We didn’t know anything about it until after the referendum.
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sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:29 am

Arion640 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Full steam ahead. Lets get going.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc. ... s-46016359

How long will it take for one of you to compare this to blue passports?


It's a massive victory. This is what Brexit is all about. I'm so proud! :liar:


I love how you paint this as something leavers actually wanted, along with blue passports. We didn’t know anything about it until after the referendum.


While I fully agree with you this was indeed not something which leave campaigned for, it does tell you something about the state of mind of leading Brexiteers, doesn't it?

You'd think that they'd have higher priorities than legislating on the colour of UK passports or pushing the treasury to mint some kind of commemoration coin, knowing not even 10% of all the legislative work is done to prepare for an orderly Brexit, regardless the type of Brexit.

Not only does it show an utter unpreparedness for 'victory', but also do they demonstrate their continued inability to actually make something out of it: the people given a mandate are filling their well paid time in Westminster discussing the colour of a passport and some silly coin designs, while literally millions of Brits and the entire British economy they are supposed to be working for are still completely in the dark as to how exactly they will be able to continue with their daily routine as from spring next year!

You'd think that a coin or a passport design would be the very last thing the mind of the Tories, but no: somehow this is clearly the very essence of Brexit to those actually shaping it?!
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:48 am

Arion640 wrote:
I love how you paint this as something leavers actually wanted, along with blue passports. We didn’t know anything about it until after the referendum.


Image
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Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:11 am

scbriml wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
I love how you paint this as something leavers actually wanted, along with blue passports. We didn’t know anything about it until after the referendum.


Image


A sign that you know my point was fully valid, but of course, can’t admit it.
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:51 am

Arion640 wrote:
I love how you paint this as something leavers actually wanted, along with blue passports. We didn’t know anything about it until after the referendum.


Good for you to admit that leave voters didn't know what they voted for and that just goes to the core of things. They hard Brexiteers mob can't claim that the majority actually wanted a hard Brexit in 2016. Thus a new referendum is needed now that it is all known what it actually means, an informed decision instead of blatant lie the £ 350million per week that supposed to go to the NHS.

If you are so sure that the majority wants a hard Brexit, a vote should be no problem, now should it.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:59 am

Dutchy wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
I love how you paint this as something leavers actually wanted, along with blue passports. We didn’t know anything about it until after the referendum.


Good for you to admit that leave voters didn't know what they voted for and that just goes to the core of things. They hard Brexiteers mob can't claim that the majority actually wanted a hard Brexit in 2016. Thus a new referendum is needed now that it is all known what it actually means, an informed decision instead of blatant lie the £ 350million per week that supposed to go to the NHS.

If you are so sure that the majority wants a hard Brexit, a vote should be no problem, now should it.


We voted to leave the EU. It was a simple yes/no question.

Should it have been clearer? In hindsight yes. But at the time I suspect no deal would have won.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:46 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
But at the time I suspect no deal would have won.


Hahahaha.... leave needed a campaign of lies to make it, unexpectedly, to a razorthin majority, that they are on record would require a 2nd referendum if the result had been reversed.

With remain and no-deal Brexit on the menu remain would win with around a 2/3 majority.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/883 ... scenarios/

That is the only reason why Brexit fundamentalists don't want the people to have a say in Brexit.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:06 pm

I do wonder though, had remain won by a small majority, what EU reforms would we have seen?
 
tommy1808
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:27 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
I do wonder though, had remain won by a small majority, what EU reforms would we have seen?


None. The UK already had their baskets of cherries before the vote.
Losing the drag-chute is the only upside of Brexit though.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:30 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
I do wonder though, had remain won by a small majority, what EU reforms would we have seen?


Why would the much larger group be making changes because a much smaller group decided - among themselves - to stick to the large group?

This Brexit way of thinking just boggles the mind...

(Having said that, I expect recognition of the anti-EU sentiment would have resulted in some minor changes to pay lip-service to some of the concerns)
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
Arion640
Posts: 1983
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:47 pm

Brexits nearly here. Lets get going full throttle. Global Britain is on its way.
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JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:47 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
I do wonder though, had remain won by a small majority, what EU reforms would we have seen?


Why would the much larger group be making changes because a much smaller group decided - among themselves - to stick to the large group?

This Brexit way of thinking just boggles the mind...


UK: we want everyone in the UK to accommodate to our wishes. If you don't then you're anti-democratic tyranny.

Makes perfect sense.

In any case the EU is constantly evolving. Budgets, laws, structures change almost day to day.
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:15 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Brexits nearly here. Lets get going full throttle. Global Britain is on its way.


Britain already is a Global country, made this by being in the EU. Before it joined it was the sick man of Europe, it grew because of, not in-spite of being in it. By leaving the EU and it's dozens of international trade agreements, without replacements in place in March isolates the UK. You're doing the complete opposite of 'Global Britain'.
 
sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:19 pm

The UK is effectively imposing economic sanctions on itself: that's the best way to describe the effect of Brexit on the British economy.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:59 pm

Arion640 wrote:
A sign that you know my point was fully valid, but of course, can’t admit it.


A sign that you don't get ironical humour, but of course, can't admit it.
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Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:02 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Brexits nearly here. Lets get going full throttle. Global Britain is on its way.


Britain already is a Global country, made this by being in the EU. Before it joined it was the sick man of Europe, it grew because of, not in-spite of being in it. By leaving the EU and it's dozens of international trade agreements, without replacements in place in March isolates the UK. You're doing the complete opposite of 'Global Britain'.


The Sickman of Europe, priceless that is. We weren’t fully signed up until John Majors premiership. The prior years Thatcher powered us to the top.

All the EU has done economically for Britain is suck countless jobs away and flood us with people we can’t take.
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:35 pm

Arion640 wrote:
All the EU has done economically for Britain is suck countless jobs away and flood us with people we can’t take.


UK economy is extremely strong now having spent this time in the EU
UK unemployment is at historic low
Immigration has helped feed our economy and make us strong
uk businesses want immigration and liquidity in labour markets to make them strong
2/3rds of immigration is not from the EU anyhow
Immigration has been shown to have positive effect on the economy.
UK could have applied handbrake to EU immigration and required employment and medical insurance but chose not to.

More facts for you Arion640... they will likely pass you by as always but at least I tried.

But hey... can I have your promised answer on Northern Ireland border please? It’s been months and I cant wait to hear your solution!
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:42 pm

Richard28 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
All the EU has done economically for Britain is suck countless jobs away and flood us with people we can’t take.


UK economy is extremely strong now having spent this time in the EU
UK unemployment is at historic low
Immigration has helped feed our economy and make us strong
uk businesses want immigration and liquidity in labour markets to make them strong
2/3rds of immigration is not from the EU anyhow
Immigration has been shown to have positive effect on the economy.
UK could have applied handbrake to EU immigration and required employment and medical insurance but chose not to.

More facts for you Arion640... they will likely pass you by as always but at least I tried.

But hey... can I have your promised answer on Northern Ireland border please? It’s been months and I cant wait to hear your solution!


-House prices at a record high
-Houses being built at a stupidly rapid rate (the countryside is disappearing)
-NHS at breaking point
-Road network at breaking point
-Schools at breaking point
-Communities seeing a rapid pace of change

Enough said.

Time to reverse the damage and save Britain while we still can.
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Olddog
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:51 pm

The funny part is theses damages are the results of the UK internal choices.

Without being in the EU, you will see the same number of migrants, not from Poland, but rather from the Commonwealth. You know perfectly well that your government deliberately opened the doors of the flow of migrants because of the economic objective chosen.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:08 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
All the EU has done economically for Britain is suck countless jobs away and flood us with people we can’t take.


UK economy is extremely strong now having spent this time in the EU
UK unemployment is at historic low
Immigration has helped feed our economy and make us strong
uk businesses want immigration and liquidity in labour markets to make them strong
2/3rds of immigration is not from the EU anyhow
Immigration has been shown to have positive effect on the economy.
UK could have applied handbrake to EU immigration and required employment and medical insurance but chose not to.

More facts for you Arion640... they will likely pass you by as always but at least I tried.

But hey... can I have your promised answer on Northern Ireland border please? It’s been months and I cant wait to hear your solution!


-House prices at a record high
-Houses being built at a stupidly rapid rate (the countryside is disappearing)
-NHS at breaking point
-Road network at breaking point
-Schools at breaking point
-Communities seeing a rapid pace of change

Enough said.

Time to reverse the damage and save Britain while we still can.


Make Britain British again!!
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:13 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Brexits nearly here. Lets get going full throttle. Global Britain is on its way.


Britain already is a Global country, made this by being in the EU. Before it joined it was the sick man of Europe, it grew because of, not in-spite of being in it. By leaving the EU and it's dozens of international trade agreements, without replacements in place in March isolates the UK. You're doing the complete opposite of 'Global Britain'.


The Sickman of Europe, priceless that is. We weren’t fully signed up until John Majors premiership. The prior years Thatcher powered us to the top.


That's interesting. Fully signed as in?
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:17 pm

JJJ wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:

Britain already is a Global country, made this by being in the EU. Before it joined it was the sick man of Europe, it grew because of, not in-spite of being in it. By leaving the EU and it's dozens of international trade agreements, without replacements in place in March isolates the UK. You're doing the complete opposite of 'Global Britain'.


The Sickman of Europe, priceless that is. We weren’t fully signed up until John Majors premiership. The prior years Thatcher powered us to the top.


That's interesting. Fully signed as in?


Maastricht.
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:56 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
-House prices at a record high
-Houses being built at a stupidly rapid rate (the countryside is disappearing)
-NHS at breaking point
-Road network at breaking point
-Schools at breaking point
-Communities seeing a rapid pace of change


As I say 2/3rds of immigration is not from EU.

House prices are demand and supply. Supply issues are down to UK government policy (not EU) over decades. Demand is there as consequence of booming economy.

NHS will be badly damaged by Brexit as relies on EU in large part (doctors, nurses, euratom, EMA, certifications) and could be hurt if USA get their way on any trade deal with increase drug prices and privatisation.

Roads = lack of UK investment - nothing to do with EU.

Schools - again UK spending, not dependent on EU

Communities and change? Some welcome change some don’t - but again remember only 1/3rd of this change is from EU.

You are seriously leaving the largest trading block and risking recession, risking thousands of jobs for these reasons?

Crazy. Pathological and crazy.

By the way, you omitted to give me an answer on Irish border (again)
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:00 pm

Richard28 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
-House prices at a record high
-Houses being built at a stupidly rapid rate (the countryside is disappearing)
-NHS at breaking point
-Road network at breaking point
-Schools at breaking point
-Communities seeing a rapid pace of change


Roads = lack of UK investment - nothing to do with EU.

Schools - again UK spending, not dependent on EU



If you can’t acknowledge there’s a demand side to this equation, then i’m very very sorry.

Lets push on now and take back control. You’ll be living in a much happier, prosperous Britain in a few years Rich.
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:33 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:


Roads = lack of UK investment - nothing to do with EU.

Schools - again UK spending, not dependent on EU



If you can’t acknowledge there’s a demand side to this equation, then i’m very very sorry.

Lets push on now and take back control. You’ll be living in a much happier, prosperous Britain in a few years Rich.


Do you want to stop immigration from Commonwealth countries as well? I mean they account for 2/3 of the immigration would only be logical.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
rabenschlag
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:57 pm

seahawk wrote:

Make Britain British again!!


Makes me wonder what to do about the RAF Eurofighters. Will they be possible renamed? Freedomfighters? Britanniafighters? Or must they be abandoned and replaced by a truly British product?

At least they should be painted blue and entitled to fly on the left side of airways wherever they want.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:06 pm

rabenschlag wrote:
seahawk wrote:

Make Britain British again!!


Makes me wonder what to do about the RAF Eurofighters. Will they be possible renamed? Freedomfighters? Britanniafighters? Or must they be abandoned and replaced by a truly British product?

At least they should be painted blue and entitled to fly on the left side of airways wherever they want.


What a stupid thing to say. We are the ones who want a firm free trade deal.
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Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:09 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:

Roads = lack of UK investment - nothing to do with EU.

Schools - again UK spending, not dependent on EU



If you can’t acknowledge there’s a demand side to this equation, then i’m very very sorry.

Lets push on now and take back control. You’ll be living in a much happier, prosperous Britain in a few years Rich.


Do you want to stop immigration from Commonwealth countries as well? I mean they account for 2/3 of the immigration would only be logical.


Yep. Needs to be controlled.

I’m actually very liberal on immigration despite people trying to paint me as a racist. A 100k/year limit of skilled workers would be absloutley fine.
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ElPistolero
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:57 am

Arion640 wrote:

I’m actually very liberal on immigration despite people trying to paint me as a racist. A 100k/year limit of skilled workers would be absloutley fine.


Do you mean net migration? If so, the 100k/year limit might be achievable with limited effort.

I hear stripping citizenship is possible in the U.K. even in cases where citizenship was acquired legitimately (it isn't in the US and Canada). Is that correct? If so, just let in all the high-skilled, high value immigrants you want, and strip citizenship from, and deport, an appropriate number of unskilled/unemployable net negative economic contributors in the name of the "public good". Like in the good old days.

Demand on public services problem solved, and bonus economic benefits.
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:27 am

Arion640 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

The Sickman of Europe, priceless that is. We weren’t fully signed up until John Majors premiership. The prior years Thatcher powered us to the top.


That's interesting. Fully signed as in?


Maastricht.


So there was a Maastricht treaty everyone was signed up to but not the UK? The UK was a full member of the EEC, just like the 6 founding members plus Ireland and Denmark.

The EEC saved the British post-colonial economic shambles. There's no Thatchernomics without the EEC next door ready to take on the new British economic output, because fleecing the colonies was no longer an option.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:01 am

JJJ wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

That's interesting. Fully signed as in?


Maastricht.


So there was a Maastricht treaty everyone was signed up to but not the UK? The UK was a full member of the EEC, just like the 6 founding members plus Ireland and Denmark.

The EEC saved the British post-colonial economic shambles. There's no Thatchernomics without the EEC next door ready to take on the new British economic output, because fleecing the colonies was no longer an option.


I’m aware of that. But Maastricht was when the EU escalated away from what it should of stayed it.
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sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:43 am

Yet the UK opted out of the main features of the Maastricht treaty which turned the EC into the EU, so although Europe changed indeed, the British relationship with Europe didn't radically change because of all the opt outs it got, yet when you hear the Tories bang on about Europe, you'd almost think they know so little of the EU these days they aren't even aware of their own opt outs. :banghead:

The only noticable change for the UK was that Westminster no longer had to legislate on matters relating purely to the SM as legislative sovereignty over that was transferred from national parliaments to the EP, but prior Maastricht British MPs (as well as those in the other EU member states' national parliaments, btw) simply had to rubber stamp whatever they were sent from Brussels, anyway... and let's not be under any illusion: this is exactly what they will again have to do in future too if Britain wants to remain having some sort of frictionless access to the SM, of course.

Before 1992, the legislative process was all very similar to how trade agreements between the EU and a third country are still being ratified even today (because of an ECJ ruling): each national parliament had no other real choice but to pass exactly the same law and once all had done so, it could take effect Europe wide, so the result was exactly the same as today in fact when the EP legislates for the whole of the EU at once, just slower, less efficient and with an air of perceived greater self-determination to it which seems to have fooled quite a lot of people into believing their national parliament was still deciding freely and autonomously, at home.

Reality is you can only have a SM if you adopt the same rules of course, and the rules of the SM are set by the EC, not individual participants, so in future Britain's laws will just have to mirror whatever changes the EP makes to the SM in the same way as the Norwegian or Swiss parliaments shadow the EP too, for instance.
Just ask the Swiss how well it went the last time they decided they would unilaterally alter a single feature of the relationship with the EU....

Anyway, the funny thing is that a pre-maastricht relationship with the EU is perfectly possible after Brexit: it's basically membership of the SM plus a CU, also known as Norway+, but TM arrogantly ruled that out all by herself and has put herself up for a lot of misery since then, although ironically Norway+ is again being looked at by Brexiteers, officially as a transitional phase only to kick the can full of insolvabke issues further down the road once more...

In the 21st century, sovereignty means something else than what it meant in the 19th century: today it means you have a seat at the negotiating table and are able to influence the common decision... walking away from that table just means you'll have no other choice but to accept whatever others decided in your absence, or be left behind.
Last edited by sabenapilot on Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:04 am

Arion640 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:


Roads = lack of UK investment - nothing to do with EU.

Schools - again UK spending, not dependent on EU



If you can’t acknowledge there’s a demand side to this equation, then i’m very very sorry.

Lets push on now and take back control. You’ll be living in a much happier, prosperous Britain in a few years Rich.


I think increase in demand is not as big as you think. The number of foreign registered cars on the roads is minimal, other than lorries.. which of course is essential for trade.

Of course this means immigrants could be buying British registered cars, filled with UK taxed fuel, which means they are paying Uk taxes, so it goes back to the usage of that money and supply based on UK government spending again.

If we think further about demand, then with advent of autonomous vehicles in next ten years or so the utilisation and demand for roads will change dramatically.

Not the time to quit the worlds biggest trading block based on traffic jams.


Oh, you forgot to give answer to northern Ireland again Arion640!!
 
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Richard28
Posts: 2476
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:06 am

And as far as schools and roads are concerned, all
Immigrants are going to be able to stay anyway, so leaving the EU will have no impact on current demand for schools and roads.

So all this for no gain.
 
Arion640
Posts: 1983
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:12 am

Richard28 wrote:
And as far as schools and roads are concerned, all
Immigrants are going to be able to stay anyway, so leaving the EU will have no impact on current demand for schools and roads.

So all this for no gain.


Oh of course. But if we’d stayed in the EU this enormous problem will continue. So best stop it while we still can.

Meanwhile the countryside disappears at a rapid rate as demand for housing goes up. Not good. Do you want to live in one giant city? We are only an island at the end of the day. Lets get going and reverse this decline.
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sabenapilot
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:26 am

Excuse me saying Arion640, but your latest comments suggest you seem to be living of nostalgia, dreaming of a past which is gone for good already and probably never even existed for real anyway.
Whenever I go to one of the cities in the midlands for instance, there's few that reminds me of what you're longing for and in fact there's even fewer of what you fear most: europe...
All I see are crises-hit post-industrial places finally being transformed into modern cosmopolitan cities, and yes i'll give it to you you now also hear and see people in the streets who are not from around originally, but let me be blunt and say that whenever you see (and hear) it the most, it probably means they aren't from elsewhere in the EU, but from much further away, don't you think? Inviting them over never was an EU obligation nor a consequence of being an EU member, so you're taking the wrong medicine if that's the illness you want to cure.
 
rabenschlag
Posts: 1022
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2000 10:28 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:41 am

sabenapilot wrote:
In the 21st century, sovereignty means something else than what it meant in the 19th century: today it means you have a seat at the negotiating table and are able to influence the common decision... walking away from that table just means you'll have no other choice but to accept whatever others decided in your absence, or be left behind.


That!
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 6864
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:02 am

Arion640 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
And as far as schools and roads are concerned, all
Immigrants are going to be able to stay anyway, so leaving the EU will have no impact on current demand for schools and roads.

So all this for no gain.


Oh of course. But if we’d stayed in the EU this enormous problem will continue. So best stop it while we still can.

Meanwhile the countryside disappears at a rapid rate as demand for housing goes up. Not good. Do you want to live in one giant city? We are only an island at the end of the day. Lets get going and reverse this decline.


British politics always welcomed EU citizens even though there could have been some restrictions. So don't blame the EU for this. Cheap labor also contributed to the wealth of the UK at large. But your response, Britain for the British.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Arion640
Posts: 1983
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:21 am

Dutchy wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
And as far as schools and roads are concerned, all
Immigrants are going to be able to stay anyway, so leaving the EU will have no impact on current demand for schools and roads.

So all this for no gain.


Oh of course. But if we’d stayed in the EU this enormous problem will continue. So best stop it while we still can.

Meanwhile the countryside disappears at a rapid rate as demand for housing goes up. Not good. Do you want to live in one giant city? We are only an island at the end of the day. Lets get going and reverse this decline.


British politics always welcomed EU citizens even though there could have been some restrictions. So don't blame the EU for this. Cheap labor also contributed to the wealth of the UK at large. But your response, Britain for the British.


No one blinks an eye at America and its green cards. People should be thankful Britain has been as tolerant as it has.
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Arion640
Posts: 1983
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:22 am

Dutchy wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
And as far as schools and roads are concerned, all
Immigrants are going to be able to stay anyway, so leaving the EU will have no impact on current demand for schools and roads.

So all this for no gain.


Oh of course. But if we’d stayed in the EU this enormous problem will continue. So best stop it while we still can.

Meanwhile the countryside disappears at a rapid rate as demand for housing goes up. Not good. Do you want to live in one giant city? We are only an island at the end of the day. Lets get going and reverse this decline.


British politics always welcomed EU citizens even though there could have been some restrictions. So don't blame the EU for this. Cheap labor also contributed to the wealth of the UK at large. But your response, Britain for the British.


No one blinks an eye at America and its green cards. People should be thankful Britain has been as tolerant as it has.
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JJJ
Posts: 3038
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:24 am

Arion640 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

Maastricht.


So there was a Maastricht treaty everyone was signed up to but not the UK? The UK was a full member of the EEC, just like the 6 founding members plus Ireland and Denmark.

The EEC saved the British post-colonial economic shambles. There's no Thatchernomics without the EEC next door ready to take on the new British economic output, because fleecing the colonies was no longer an option.


I’m aware of that. But Maastricht was when the EU escalated away from what it should of stayed it.



If the UK wanted just a free trade agreement they should have stayed in EFTA (of which they were founding members).

The EEC was going much further than that. It's there from day one.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:12 am

Arion640 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

Oh of course. But if we’d stayed in the EU this enormous problem will continue. So best stop it while we still can.

Meanwhile the countryside disappears at a rapid rate as demand for housing goes up. Not good. Do you want to live in one giant city? We are only an island at the end of the day. Lets get going and reverse this decline.


British politics always welcomed EU citizens even though there could have been some restrictions. So don't blame the EU for this. Cheap labor also contributed to the wealth of the UK at large. But your response, Britain for the British.


No one blinks an eye at America and its green cards. People should be thankful Britain has been as tolerant as it has.


And that is what the UK need. The status of every foreigner living in the UK needs to be re-checked and most should be thrown out. Only a selected number of useful, highly qualified and high tax paying individuals should be allowed to stay.
 
Arion640
Posts: 1983
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:52 am

JJJ wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

So there was a Maastricht treaty everyone was signed up to but not the UK? The UK was a full member of the EEC, just like the 6 founding members plus Ireland and Denmark.

The EEC saved the British post-colonial economic shambles. There's no Thatchernomics without the EEC next door ready to take on the new British economic output, because fleecing the colonies was no longer an option.


I’m aware of that. But Maastricht was when the EU escalated away from what it should of stayed it.



If the UK wanted just a free trade agreement they should have stayed in EFTA (of which they were founding members).

The EEC was going much further than that. It's there from day one.


To be honest, i’d of been happy with EFTA, but we are where we are.
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sabenapilot
Posts: 2656
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:04 pm

EFTA is pretty much dead these days due to an exodus of memberstates to the competing and far more successful EC which morphed into the EU.
EFTA's main raison d'être today is merely to facilitate the economic integration of its remaining members with the EU through the jointly run EEA, making sure that its often small memberstates can cope with the huge legislative task of mirroring EU legislation to the lettre in order to comply with all of the rules of the SM and thus have access to it.
If the UK were to return to EFTA, not only would it completely upset the internal balance of power between the few isolated member srates, but also would it see itself be revived again as some EU competitor, something which is beyond it's own ambitions really: EFTA nor its memberstates are waiting for Britain.
 
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scbriml
Posts: 16068
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:37 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Meanwhile the countryside disappears at a rapid rate as demand for housing goes up. Not good. Do you want to live in one giant city? We are only an island at the end of the day. Lets get going and reverse this decline.


More Brexit slogan-based nonsense. :sarcastic: :banghead:

How much of the UK is classified as "Developed"? Very little if one wants to use facts rather than scaremongery.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41901294

https://fullfact.org/economy/has-92-cou ... een-built/
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
rabenschlag
Posts: 1022
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:22 pm

seahawk wrote:
And that is what the UK need. The status of every foreigner living in the UK needs to be re-checked and most should be thrown out. Only a selected number of useful, highly qualified and high tax paying individuals should be allowed to stay.


I thought long (well, not that long) and hard about whether to feed this kind of reasoning. But I can't resist.... So, I'll give it one try:

May I ask: Would you also argue in favour of "throwing out" useless, non-qualified and non tax paying brits? If not: why?
 
Olddog
Topic Author
Posts: 807
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:31 pm

rabenschlag wrote:
I thought long (well, not that long) and hard about whether to feed this kind of reasoning. But I can't resist.... So, I'll give it one try:

May I ask: Would you also argue in favour of "throwing out" useless, non-qualified and non tax paying brits? If not: why?


None left in the government?
 
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Richard28
Posts: 2476
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:50 pm

Arion640 wrote:

To be honest, i’d of been happy with EFTA, but we are where we are.


And yet EFTA allows freedom of movement....

You talk in riddles Arion640.
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