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Klaus
Posts: 20883
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:36 am

seahawk wrote:
Klaus wrote:
seahawk wrote:

It will come at a price. At least the EU will force the Uk to agree on changing the Lisbon treaty by better defining the costs of using Article 50 in the future.


Huh? What are you talking about?

Anyone with a basic understanding of contracts and legal texts clearly understands what it's saying.

The brexiteers just didn't take it seriously and more and more britons are now seriously getting cold feet as the self-selected cliff edge is approaching!


There are plenty not fully regulated questions, like when the divorce payment is due, what is all covered and also no final authority in case of a disagreement.

You can easily legislate, that 10% of the divorce payment have to been paid upfront as a compensation for the extra work the EU and the remaining members have to do.

That is not at all what the outstanding payments are for. Those are already entirely committed to the respective EU projects and they are not connected to the exit as such. That damage to the other countries is not carried by the exiting country – that part is "free", basically (but of course figures into the amount of goodwill (or lack thereof) the remaining countries apply to the negotiations).

This 10% are lost if you decide to stay.

That is not an option in the first place, so there is no need to even mention it.

You can also have a binding agreement, that the ECJ is the final authority in case of a disagreement on the divorce payment, with every country agreeing to accept the verdict even after having left the EU.

The exiting country becomes a third country and the EU can use the regular international judiciary to rake in any outstanding payments – which, by the way, makes the naive idea of "just not paying" which many UK brexiteers are still pondering as if it was an actual viable option a complete non-starter due to the automatic damage to the UK's credibility and credit ratings that would incur.

Those other issues flow automatically from the separation and mentioning them in Article 50 wouldn't make a jot of difference to the utter chaos and pandemonium in Westminster which is the primary problem here.
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2017 3:23 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:50 pm

Klaus wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Klaus wrote:

Huh? What are you talking about?

Anyone with a basic understanding of contracts and legal texts clearly understands what it's saying.

The brexiteers just didn't take it seriously and more and more britons are now seriously getting cold feet as the self-selected cliff edge is approaching!


There are plenty not fully regulated questions, like when the divorce payment is due, what is all covered and also no final authority in case of a disagreement.

You can easily legislate, that 10% of the divorce payment have to been paid upfront as a compensation for the extra work the EU and the remaining members have to do.

That is not at all what the outstanding payments are for. Those are already entirely committed to the respective EU projects and they are not connected to the exit as such. That damage to the other countries is not carried by the exiting country – that part is "free", basically (but of course figures into the amount of goodwill (or lack thereof) the remaining countries apply to the negotiations).

This 10% are lost if you decide to stay.

That is not an option in the first place, so there is no need to even mention it.

You can also have a binding agreement, that the ECJ is the final authority in case of a disagreement on the divorce payment, with every country agreeing to accept the verdict even after having left the EU.

The exiting country becomes a third country and the EU can use the regular international judiciary to rake in any outstanding payments – which, by the way, makes the naive idea of "just not paying" which many UK brexiteers are still pondering as if it was an actual viable option a complete non-starter due to the automatic damage to the UK's credibility and credit ratings that would incur.

Those other issues flow automatically from the separation and mentioning them in Article 50 wouldn't make a jot of difference to the utter chaos and pandemonium in Westminster which is the primary problem here.


With the UK leaving, Germany will have to contribute more apparently.

Enjoy your tax rise.
 
mmo
Posts: 1637
Joined: Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:04 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:03 pm

IATA released a paper yesterday concerning the impact of Brexit on air travel. https://www.iata.org/policy/consumer-pa ... -study.pdf

Makes for interesting reading. You can come to your own conclusions. However, it would seem the UK is not in a very good position for their post-Brexit aviation policy. Perhaps all the Brexidiots could explain what happened to the "great negotiating position" the UK was supposed to have. Looks to me as if they get the very short end of the stick.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane!
 
Klaus
Posts: 20883
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:15 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
seahawk wrote:

There are plenty not fully regulated questions, like when the divorce payment is due, what is all covered and also no final authority in case of a disagreement.

You can easily legislate, that 10% of the divorce payment have to been paid upfront as a compensation for the extra work the EU and the remaining members have to do.

That is not at all what the outstanding payments are for. Those are already entirely committed to the respective EU projects and they are not connected to the exit as such. That damage to the other countries is not carried by the exiting country – that part is "free", basically (but of course figures into the amount of goodwill (or lack thereof) the remaining countries apply to the negotiations).

This 10% are lost if you decide to stay.

That is not an option in the first place, so there is no need to even mention it.

You can also have a binding agreement, that the ECJ is the final authority in case of a disagreement on the divorce payment, with every country agreeing to accept the verdict even after having left the EU.

The exiting country becomes a third country and the EU can use the regular international judiciary to rake in any outstanding payments – which, by the way, makes the naive idea of "just not paying" which many UK brexiteers are still pondering as if it was an actual viable option a complete non-starter due to the automatic damage to the UK's credibility and credit ratings that would incur.

Those other issues flow automatically from the separation and mentioning them in Article 50 wouldn't make a jot of difference to the utter chaos and pandemonium in Westminster which is the primary problem here.


With the UK leaving, Germany will have to contribute more apparently.

Enjoy your tax rise.


That's already been one of the least controversial points in the current coalition agreement and it's been met with a shrug of "yeah, of course" in the media and the general public.

We're well aware of the damage you're doing to us, but we're just taking it in stride and moving on.
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:17 pm

https://mlexmarketinsight.com/insights- ... sal-at-wto

Yet another show of how crazy it is to remotely think WTO is any sort of replacement for the EU or a walk in the park to setup. Amusingly (actually not) it's Russia this time.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 9165
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:27 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
seahawk wrote:

There are plenty not fully regulated questions, like when the divorce payment is due, what is all covered and also no final authority in case of a disagreement.

You can easily legislate, that 10% of the divorce payment have to been paid upfront as a compensation for the extra work the EU and the remaining members have to do.

That is not at all what the outstanding payments are for. Those are already entirely committed to the respective EU projects and they are not connected to the exit as such. That damage to the other countries is not carried by the exiting country – that part is "free", basically (but of course figures into the amount of goodwill (or lack thereof) the remaining countries apply to the negotiations).

This 10% are lost if you decide to stay.

That is not an option in the first place, so there is no need to even mention it.

You can also have a binding agreement, that the ECJ is the final authority in case of a disagreement on the divorce payment, with every country agreeing to accept the verdict even after having left the EU.

The exiting country becomes a third country and the EU can use the regular international judiciary to rake in any outstanding payments – which, by the way, makes the naive idea of "just not paying" which many UK brexiteers are still pondering as if it was an actual viable option a complete non-starter due to the automatic damage to the UK's credibility and credit ratings that would incur.

Those other issues flow automatically from the separation and mentioning them in Article 50 wouldn't make a jot of difference to the utter chaos and pandemonium in Westminster which is the primary problem here.


With the UK leaving, Germany will have to contribute more apparently.

Enjoy your tax rise.


You mean a little less of a tax cuts? Since you didn't participate in the current boom due to your Brexit decision that may be a bit hard to swallow, but out government currently has so much surplus money that deciding what to do with it is actually worth fighting over.
Keep in mind the 350 million pounds/week where a lie..

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
noviorbis77
Posts: 274
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:48 pm

Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
That is not at all what the outstanding payments are for. Those are already entirely committed to the respective EU projects and they are not connected to the exit as such. That damage to the other countries is not carried by the exiting country – that part is "free", basically (but of course figures into the amount of goodwill (or lack thereof) the remaining countries apply to the negotiations).


That is not an option in the first place, so there is no need to even mention it.


The exiting country becomes a third country and the EU can use the regular international judiciary to rake in any outstanding payments – which, by the way, makes the naive idea of "just not paying" which many UK brexiteers are still pondering as if it was an actual viable option a complete non-starter due to the automatic damage to the UK's credibility and credit ratings that would incur.

Those other issues flow automatically from the separation and mentioning them in Article 50 wouldn't make a jot of difference to the utter chaos and pandemonium in Westminster which is the primary problem here.


With the UK leaving, Germany will have to contribute more apparently.

Enjoy your tax rise.


That's already been one of the least controversial points in the current coalition agreement and it's been met with a shrug of "yeah, of course" in the media and the general public.

We're well aware of the damage you're doing to us, but we're just taking it in stride and moving on.


That is what we’ll be doing when we finally escape the EU. Taking things in our stride and move on.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:39 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

With the UK leaving, Germany will have to contribute more apparently.

Enjoy your tax rise.


That's already been one of the least controversial points in the current coalition agreement and it's been met with a shrug of "yeah, of course" in the media and the general public.

We're well aware of the damage you're doing to us, but we're just taking it in stride and moving on.


That is what we’ll be doing when we finally escape the EU. Taking things in our stride and move on.


Good luck with jumping off the white cliff. Too bad you are leaving, but it is your own decision and thus your own consequences. The Netherlands is preparing for a hard Brexit, are you?
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:59 pm

Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:

That's already been one of the least controversial points in the current coalition agreement and it's been met with a shrug of "yeah, of course" in the media and the general public.

We're well aware of the damage you're doing to us, but we're just taking it in stride and moving on.


That is what we’ll be doing when we finally escape the EU. Taking things in our stride and move on.


Good luck with jumping off the white cliff. Too bad you are leaving, but it is your own decision and thus your own consequences. The Netherlands is preparing for a hard Brexit, are you?


Yes. The civil service is on top of things. Certainly my department is.
 
A3801000
Posts: 160
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:05 pm

Ministry of Silly Walking?
 
LJ
Posts: 4575
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 25, 2018 4:22 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

That is what we’ll be doing when we finally escape the EU. Taking things in our stride and move on.


Good luck with jumping off the white cliff. Too bad you are leaving, but it is your own decision and thus your own consequences. The Netherlands is preparing for a hard Brexit, are you?


Yes. The civil service is on top of things. Certainly my department is.


Most of the preparing must be done by UK businesses. Moreover, to be “on top of things” still doesn’t mean one is prepared for all possible outcomes.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:24 pm

When will May finish her term? Maybe she will drag her feet until then...
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:52 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
https://mlexmarketinsight.com/insights-center/editors-picks/brexit/europe/russia-blocks-uks-post-brexit-tariff-proposal-at-wto

Yet another show of how crazy it is to remotely think WTO is any sort of replacement for the EU or a walk in the park to setup. Amusingly (actually not) it's Russia this time.

Russia objecting to the UK's WTO schedules?
Who could ever have expected such a thing?
 
Bostrom
Posts: 536
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 25, 2018 9:35 pm

Klaus wrote:
That's already been one of the least controversial points in the current coalition agreement and it's been met with a shrug of "yeah, of course" in the media and the general public.

We're well aware of the damage you're doing to us, but we're just taking it in stride and moving on.


But we will probably survive. UK's net contribution to the EU is around 5000 million euros per year. To fill that hole in the budget would mean every EU citizen have to pay an additional 90 cents in tax every month.
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:12 pm

seahawk wrote:
There are plenty not fully regulated questions, like when the divorce payment is due, what is all covered and also no final authority in case of a disagreement.

You can easily legislate, that 10% of the divorce payment have to been paid upfront as a compensation for the extra work the EU and the remaining members have to do. This 10% are lost if you decide to stay. You can also have a binding agreement, that the ECJ is the final authority in case of a disagreement on the divorce payment, with every country agreeing to accept the verdict even after having left the EU.

Nah, it doesn't work that way. The "divorse payment" are payments which the UK in the period 1st Jan 1973 to 29th Mar 2017 has promissed to pay.

It covers things like pension benefits to EU workers who worked for the UK (and 8 to 27 other EU countries) in the forementioned period, no matter their nationality (British, Belgium, Egyptian etc.) and no matter where their agency was placed (in the UK, Luxembourg, Poland etc.). For the time they have worked for also the UK, the UK will pay approximately 15% of their pension compenation.

And it covers projects which the EU with UK approval has initiated. It could be ongoing harmonisation of western and eastern European railway track widths, and it is dozens or hundreds of other such things which have to be done 100% or not done at all. Those who approved the projects, and promissed to pay, they pay.

Payment for preparation for Brexit, however, that is done by the individual countries. UK pays for UK costs, Austria pays Astrian costs, etc.

With future UK payments for common projects missing, such projects will of course move forward more slowly than in case of no Brexit. That will have some impact on things like modernising common physical infrastructure especially in eastern Europe. But luckily these days much of Europe experiences a business boom like not seen since the 1960'es, so there is no reason to panic.

A minor budget help for the EU is that no future common development projects in the UK will need consideration. It doesn't mean much, however, because such projects are generally small and far between in the richer and well developed countries compared to especially the former communist ruled countries.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
prebennorholm
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:50 pm

Bostrom wrote:
But we will probably survive. UK's net contribution to the EU is around 5000 million euros per year. To fill that hole in the budget would mean every EU citizen have to pay an additional 90 cents in tax every month.

90 cent/month. Well, it depends. Some countries, including my own Denmark, are advocating for a slight reduction of project activity level from 2021 and onwards to compensate for Brexit.

But never mind Brexit, I look forward to pay several times those 90 cent/month extra to the EU. I'm an old retired man, and due to the business boom, also the profit on my pension savings is booming. And I will of course pay tax of that profit.

I consider that to be a luxury problem which I will try to survive. 8-)
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Reinhardt
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:26 am

Klaus wrote:
Reinhardt wrote:
https://mlexmarketinsight.com/insights-center/editors-picks/brexit/europe/russia-blocks-uks-post-brexit-tariff-proposal-at-wto

Yet another show of how crazy it is to remotely think WTO is any sort of replacement for the EU or a walk in the park to setup. Amusingly (actually not) it's Russia this time.

Russia objecting to the UK's WTO schedules?
Who could ever have expected such a thing?


It's almost like you could have predicted it! :-)

And today's news - https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/arg ... 50c2f.html
from a different, non EU source for a change.

'Nothing to fear from the WTO' eh Jacob. Could have fooled me.
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 26, 2018 12:14 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
It's almost like you could have predicted it! :-)


"Taking Back Control"? - No, Russia and others are on the driving seat on this one
"Going Global"? - No, dropping 65+ trade deals, with the HOPE of getting something new,. which will be smaller and further away
"£350m money to the EU sent to NHS instead" - No, we did not send that amount to the EU, economic hit and loss in tax take will easily dwarf any saving

I also saw this the other day:

"I live in a country that is actually organising an aid effort to cope with the economic sanctions its imposing on itself."

sums it all up really.
 
UltimoTiger777
Posts: 440
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:00 pm

Actually the UK can still trade on that schedule despite the objections of other WTO members.

They could take us to dispute but even that will take years to sort out.

Note that trading on an uncertified schedule is different to "leaving on WTO terms" (AKA, leaving with no deal in place).
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:21 pm

Richard28 wrote:
I also saw this the other day:

"I live in a country that is actually organising an aid effort to cope with the economic sanctions its imposing on itself."

sums it all up really.

I actually liked Monty Python better when their absurdities were just fictional! ;)
 
JJJ
Posts: 3038
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:07 pm

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
Actually the UK can still trade on that schedule despite the objections of other WTO members.

They could take us to dispute but even that will take years to sort out.


It still will come back to bite you. Kicking the can down the road is not the same as solving the problem.
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:03 pm

JJJ wrote:
UltimoTiger777 wrote:
Actually the UK can still trade on that schedule despite the objections of other WTO members.

They could take us to dispute but even that will take years to sort out.


It still will come back to bite you. Kicking the can down the road is not the same as solving the problem.


https://www.explaintrade.com/blogs/2018 ... uldnt-care

Also, how badly affected was the EU by trading on an out of date schedule for 12 years?

https://tradebetablog.wordpress.com/201 ... mmitments/

At all in any way?
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:25 pm

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
UltimoTiger777 wrote:
Actually the UK can still trade on that schedule despite the objections of other WTO members.

They could take us to dispute but even that will take years to sort out.


It still will come back to bite you. Kicking the can down the road is not the same as solving the problem.


https://www.explaintrade.com/blogs/2018 ... uldnt-care

Also, how badly affected was the EU by trading on an out of date schedule for 12 years?

https://tradebetablog.wordpress.com/201 ... mmitments/

At all in any way?


The key question is how many objections were raised against the EU into a case for a withdrawn concession. Not one to my knowledge.

We do know NZ and the US plan on doing so unless they get concessions from the UK, though. This just makes the British position even weaker in future negotiations.
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:27 pm

We've discussed this many times up thread, you can trade on out of date WTO schedules, you just leave yourself open to legal disputes and resolutions down the line.

The BIG thing here is the Government Procurement Agreement (GPA), this deals with the ability to trade on government expenditures such as defence, government, transport etc.

The GPA is binary, you either have it or you don't. Currently we are being denied access by USA, New Zealand and Moldova. The cost of no access to that from 30th March 2019 is massive.
 
A3801000
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:02 am

'International Trade Secretary Liam Fox said his plan to quickly normalize the U.K.’s World Trade Organization commitments had failed, forcing the government to enter into what will likely be lengthy negotiations with other members on basic terms of trade after Brexit.'


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -wto-terms

Impressive how easy and flawless it goes.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:57 am

A3801000 wrote:
'International Trade Secretary Liam Fox said his plan to quickly normalize the U.K.’s World Trade Organization commitments had failed, forcing the government to enter into what will likely be lengthy negotiations with other members on basic terms of trade after Brexit.'


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -wto-terms

Impressive how easy and flawless it goes.


I don't look with amusement to the train wreck we call Brexit. Not one single point points in favor of a Brexit. I would hate to see the demise of the UK because of this decision barely 50% of the voters made. I do not see a way out other then the UK will turn its way and seek a solution which will hurt them (and the rest of the EU) the least and thus giving up most of their red lines.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Olddog
Topic Author
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:32 pm

Dutchy wrote:
I don't look with amusement to the train wreck we call Brexit. Not one single point points in favor of a Brexit. I would hate to see the demise of the UK because of this decision barely 50% of the voters made. I do not see a way out other then the UK will turn its way and seek a solution which will hurt them (and the rest of the EU) the least and thus giving up most of their red lines.


Because you don't have the right state of mind :)

Image
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:36 pm

Olddog wrote:
Because you don't have the right state of mind :)

Yup! ;)

But the absurd comedy of it all would be much more enjoyable if the fallout hit just the main perpetrators, not all britons and not even those who were conned into voting to damage themselves.
 
Olddog
Topic Author
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:14 pm

I agree but the brits can vote, and after the 2016 referendum, the GE 17 showed: we will go on the stupid way. It is hard to be concerned in that case.
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:47 pm

Well, if any UK citizen doesn’t like brexit britain, they can always move to the Republic of Ireland after we’ve left.
319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

“No bumps, no bangs - Concorde”
 
Klaus
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 1:21 am

Arion640 wrote:
Well, if any UK citizen doesn’t like brexit britain, they can always move to the Republic of Ireland after we’ve left.


So now it's forcible explusion in case of lacking obedience to the cult.
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:21 am

Meanwhile even our old commonwealth partners are looking on Brexit in disbelief:

A self-destructive madness grips the U.K. as a no-deal Brexit looms
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busines ... icle+Links
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:22 am

Arion640 wrote:
Well, if any UK citizen doesn’t like brexit britain, they can always move to the Republic of Ireland after we’ve left.


So anyone whom disagrees with you can leave their home and motherland. How democratic of you, the rule of the majority (which is quite debatable in this case).
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Arion640
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:41 am

Dutchy wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Well, if any UK citizen doesn’t like brexit britain, they can always move to the Republic of Ireland after we’ve left.


So anyone whom disagrees with you can leave their home and motherland. How democratic of you, the rule of the majority (which is quite debatable in this case).


Not really. It just makes the most logical sense for them to move over to Ireland (which is just an extension on the UK anyway) and live inside the EU’s borders.
319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

“No bumps, no bangs - Concorde”
 
noviorbis77
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:49 am

I hold joint British/Irish citizenship. Still voted leave, still happy to be leaving.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:52 am

Arion640 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Well, if any UK citizen doesn’t like brexit britain, they can always move to the Republic of Ireland after we’ve left.


So anyone whom disagrees with you can leave their home and motherland. How democratic of you, the rule of the majority (which is quite debatable in this case).


Not really. It just makes the most logical sense for them to move over to Ireland (which is just an extension on the UK anyway) and live inside the EU’s borders.


Besides reducing your fellow countrymen, you decided to insult the Irish.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
JJJ
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:06 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
I hold joint British/Irish citizenship. Still voted leave, still happy to be leaving.


It's easier to vote to jump off the cliff if you have a parachute. Just like Farage with his German wife and kids.
 
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Richard28
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:25 pm

JJJ wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
I hold joint British/Irish citizenship. Still voted leave, still happy to be leaving.


It's easier to vote to jump off the cliff if you have a parachute. Just like Farage with his German wife and kids.


So you noviorbis77 voted the British away their freedoms, whilst keeping your EU rights via dual nationality.

I wish like you and Farage I had that luxury... however me and my kids are stuck with the outcome of this Brexit.

I wish my kids had the feeedoms and rights and opportunities I had when I was younger. Alas Brexit taketh this away.
 
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Dieuwer
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:06 pm

Apart from the issue of Northern Ireland, what''s going to happen to Gibraltar? Spain is going to put a big fence around it??
 
JJJ
Posts: 3038
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:55 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Apart from the issue of Northern Ireland, what''s going to happen to Gibraltar? Spain is going to put a big fence around it??


The big fence is there already, and has been for decades. It might get trickier to pass through but for the most part Spain and the UK are conducting quiet negotiations out of the media spotlight (understandably more focused on Ireland).

So far both parties are on record saying progress is good and that a mutually beneficial agreement will arrive before Brexit day.
 
UltimoTiger777
Posts: 440
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Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:59 pm

Richard28 wrote:

I wish my kids had the feeedoms and rights and opportunities I had when I was younger. Alas Brexit taketh this away.


Given some of the problems some people face in regards to Brexit, that sounds awfully entitled.
 
LJ
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Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:04 pm

Dieuwer wrote:
Apart from the issue of Northern Ireland, what''s going to happen to Gibraltar? Spain is going to put a big fence around it??


The future of Gibraltar is tied to a deal between the UK and the EU. The Brexit deal seems to contain an annex on Gibraltar which the Spanish agree on. However, no deal between the EU and UK, then also no deal between Spain and Gibraltar.
 
Arion640
Posts: 1983
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:04 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

So anyone whom disagrees with you can leave their home and motherland. How democratic of you, the rule of the majority (which is quite debatable in this case).


Not really. It just makes the most logical sense for them to move over to Ireland (which is just an extension on the UK anyway) and live inside the EU’s borders.


Besides reducing your fellow countrymen, you decided to insult the Irish.


Again, the pro EU gang on this thread trying to paint me as something i’m not. Previously I’ve been called stupid, homophobic, racist....

Nice to see BA opening London to Charleston. Another market we can sell our goods into. Full steam ahead.
319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

“No bumps, no bangs - Concorde”
 
Arion640
Posts: 1983
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:08 pm

Richard28 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
I hold joint British/Irish citizenship. Still voted leave, still happy to be leaving.


It's easier to vote to jump off the cliff if you have a parachute. Just like Farage with his German wife and kids.


So you noviorbis77 voted the British away their freedoms, whilst keeping your EU rights via dual nationality.

I wish like you and Farage I had that luxury... however me and my kids are stuck with the outcome of this Brexit.

I wish my kids had the feeedoms and rights and opportunities I had when I was younger. Alas Brexit taketh this away.


I love how you complain about losing EU rights like the UK will turn into some dystopian 3rd world country after 31 March 2019.
319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

“No bumps, no bangs - Concorde”
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 6864
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:56 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

Not really. It just makes the most logical sense for them to move over to Ireland (which is just an extension on the UK anyway) and live inside the EU’s borders.


Besides reducing your fellow countrymen, you decided to insult the Irish.


Again, the pro EU gang on this thread trying to paint me as something i’m not. Previously I’ve been called stupid, homophobic, racist....

Nice to see BA opening London to Charleston. Another market we can sell our goods into. Full steam ahead.


I don't need to paint you as anything, you did it yourself. Ireland is an independent nation and not an extension of the UK. It is not up to you to decide were your fellow countrymen are going to live.

PS America doesn't seem to keen to do a trade deal.....
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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Dutchy
Posts: 6864
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:01 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
JJJ wrote:

It's easier to vote to jump off the cliff if you have a parachute. Just like Farage with his German wife and kids.


So you noviorbis77 voted the British away their freedoms, whilst keeping your EU rights via dual nationality.

I wish like you and Farage I had that luxury... however me and my kids are stuck with the outcome of this Brexit.

I wish my kids had the feeedoms and rights and opportunities I had when I was younger. Alas Brexit taketh this away.


I love how you complain about losing EU rights like the UK will turn into some dystopian 3rd world country after 31 March 2019.


You are going to lose rights, that is what you have chosen for.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
Arion640
Posts: 1983
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:53 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:

Besides reducing your fellow countrymen, you decided to insult the Irish.


Again, the pro EU gang on this thread trying to paint me as something i’m not. Previously I’ve been called stupid, homophobic, racist....

Nice to see BA opening London to Charleston. Another market we can sell our goods into. Full steam ahead.


I don't need to paint you as anything, you did it yourself. Ireland is an independent nation and not an extension of the UK. It is not up to you to decide were your fellow countrymen are going to live.

PS America doesn't seem to keen to do a trade deal.....


Ireland is the UK in all but name and government. Very heavily dependent on our economy ( ROI - 4% GDP caused by brexit, a figure verified by the europhiles on this thread) and culturally the same. Also uses our armed forces. There’s free movement of people between our nations.
319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

“No bumps, no bangs - Concorde”
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6864
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:19 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Dutchy wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

Again, the pro EU gang on this thread trying to paint me as something i’m not. Previously I’ve been called stupid, homophobic, racist....

Nice to see BA opening London to Charleston. Another market we can sell our goods into. Full steam ahead.


I don't need to paint you as anything, you did it yourself. Ireland is an independent nation and not an extension of the UK. It is not up to you to decide were your fellow countrymen are going to live.

PS America doesn't seem to keen to do a trade deal.....


Ireland is the UK in all but name and government. Very heavily dependent on our economy ( ROI - 4% GDP caused by brexit, a figure verified by the europhiles on this thread) and culturally the same. Also uses our armed forces. There’s free movement of people between our nations.


The same way Putin things, it is mine because cultural and language is the same. What kind of thinking is that? You live about 100 years too late for this kind of thinking.
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
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scbriml
Posts: 16068
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:01 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Ireland is the UK in all but name and government.


You've said a lot of silly things in these threads, but this is the winner by some margin. Congrats!
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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Richard28
Posts: 2476
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:19 pm

Arion640 wrote:
I love how you complain about losing EU rights like the UK will turn into some dystopian 3rd world country after 31 March 2019.


When I was growing up I had the ability to work anywhere in the EU. I could travel and do as I pleased in the EU. That was my legal right.

My two children will not have this right. You say ‘dystopian 3rd world country’, I would not go that far.... but is it regressive? Yes it most certainly it is.

Is it fair on my kids? Having this whipped away from them based on a pack of lies, half truths, illegality, xenophobia and bo@&ocks? No it is not fair on them at all.
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