Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Arion640 · Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:14 pm

keesje wrote:
Slowly but certainly the awareness must be growing that this totally misinformed Brexit is going to hit one nation hard in the stomach.

Mostly the ones that were against Brexit, the young generations, industry, well educated.

Clinging to old glory that wasn't really there. Assuming the good EU stuff as a given..

What a monumental FU.

If I had voted Brexit, I would deny and keep quiet..

I voted brexit and I’m very proud indeed.

noviorbis77 · Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:43 pm

scbriml wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Brexit completely addresses the immigration problem.

If you really believe that, you're in for a big disappointment. "Immigration" will be just as big a problem post-Brexit for those that think it's a bad thing and the root cause of all the UK's problems.

Actually it wont. Give where I work in the public sector, there will be improvements.

noviorbis77 · Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:44 pm

UK has unilaterally pledged to defend EU nationals' rights in UK, regardless of the type of Brexit. The EU, on the other hand, threatens UK nationals' rights in event of no-deal. Yet it's the UK that is persistently derided for using citizens as bargaining chips.

keesje · Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:00 pm

Arion640 wrote:
keesje wrote:
Slowly but certainly the awareness must be growing that this totally misinformed Brexit is going to hit one nation hard in the stomach.

Mostly the ones that were against Brexit, the young generations, industry, well educated.

Clinging to old glory that wasn't really there. Assuming the good EU stuff as a given..

What a monumental FU.

If I had voted Brexit, I would deny and keep quiet..

I voted brexit and I’m very proud indeed.

Then you better deny it's a FU!

Arion640 · Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:03 pm

keesje wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
keesje wrote:
Slowly but certainly the awareness must be growing that this totally misinformed Brexit is going to hit one nation hard in the stomach.

Mostly the ones that were against Brexit, the young generations, industry, well educated.

Clinging to old glory that wasn't really there. Assuming the good EU stuff as a given..

What a monumental FU.

If I had voted Brexit, I would deny and keep quiet..

I voted brexit and I’m very proud indeed.

Then you better deny it's a FU!

It’s not over yet.

noviorbis77 · Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:18 pm

Arion640 wrote:
keesje wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

I voted brexit and I’m very proud indeed.

Then you better deny it's a FU!

It’s not over yet.

Exactly.

Its all right him gloating, but after Eire, the Netherlands will suffer more than any other EU nation in the event of a no deal Brexit.

keesje · Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:29 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
keesje wrote:

Then you better deny it's a FU!

It’s not over yet.

Exactly.

Its all right him gloating, but after Eire, the Netherlands will suffer more than any other EU nation in the event of a no deal Brexit.

I'm in aerospace and I can assure you who is gonna pay longer term. And most of those colleagues voted against anyway.. Nationalism at it's dumpest.

5427247845 · Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:29 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
UK has unilaterally pledged to defend EU nationals' rights in UK, regardless of the type of Brexit. The EU, on the other hand, threatens UK nationals' rights in event of no-deal. Yet it's the UK that is persistently derided for using citizens as bargaining chips.

Links please for both statements....

Arion640 · Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:40 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
keesje wrote:

Then you better deny it's a FU!

It’s not over yet.

Exactly.

Its all right him gloating, but after Eire, the Netherlands will suffer more than any other EU nation in the event of a no deal Brexit.

I think the Irish economy is supposed to sink 4-6% after brexit. EU not interested in protecting one of their economies and would rather try and punish the UK for going against intergration and takeover.

In short the EU doesn’t care about ireland.

noviorbis77 · Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:51 pm

marcelh wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
UK has unilaterally pledged to defend EU nationals' rights in UK, regardless of the type of Brexit. The EU, on the other hand, threatens UK nationals' rights in event of no-deal. Yet it's the UK that is persistently derided for using citizens as bargaining chips.

Links please for both statements....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssion-says

https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families

scbriml · Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:12 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Shocking video. Glad we are leaving and becoming our own self governing nation. No more ever closer union.

https://youtu.be/vv5O_Gq30ow

Seriously? Are they all clones? Where's the diversity (oh, that's right, there isn't any)? Grumpy old white people wanting the 1950s back. :rotfl:

That old video is so unrepresentative of British society in 2018 it isn't true. :banghead:

seahawk · Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:18 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Shocking video. Glad we are leaving and becoming our own self governing nation. No more ever closer union.

https://youtu.be/vv5O_Gq30ow

And gladly the EU is wanting to punish the UK, so the hard Brexit is coming ,which hurts the EU more than the UK. Ireland, the Netherlands will see a long recession, while the UK ´s economy is predicted to become the fastest growing in Europe. #winning

Klaus · Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:19 pm

Arion640 wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

It’s not over yet.

Exactly.

Its all right him gloating, but after Eire, the Netherlands will suffer more than any other EU nation in the event of a no deal Brexit.

I think the Irish economy is supposed to sink 4-6% after brexit. EU not interested in protecting one of their economies and would rather try and punish the UK for going against intergration and takeover.

In short the EU doesn’t care about ireland.

As evidenced by from day one all the other 26 countries throwing their full combined weight behind Ireland's position without wavering, which took the UK government completely by surprise (although it shouldn't have)?

And you're sorely mistaken if you believe that our attitude towards Ireland will change post Brexit either.

What you are doing to yourselves and to all the countries around you will hurt all of us and Ireland will probably still suffer the most apart from the massive damage Brexit is doing to the UK itself, but you've just received a prime demonstration of how the EU does in fact take care of their own.

The UK, on the other hand, has chosen to go it alone, so you'll receive exactly what you've voted for, and since by your own choice you won't be one of us any more there's no point in whining about the consequences of your own decisions.

Go and ask Boris and Nigel for relief, since they should know where to get you all those rainbows and unicorns they had been promising to you.

Klaus · Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:21 pm

seahawk wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Shocking video. Glad we are leaving and becoming our own self governing nation. No more ever closer union.

https://youtu.be/vv5O_Gq30ow

And gladly the EU is wanting to punish the UK, so the hard Brexit is coming ,which hurts the EU more than the UK. Ireland, the Netherlands will see a long recession, while the UK ´s economy is predicted to become the fastest growing in Europe. #winning

Just checking in: Do you really think that your trolling of the poor Leavers is still funny?

5427247845 · Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:22 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
UK has unilaterally pledged to defend EU nationals' rights in UK, regardless of the type of Brexit. The EU, on the other hand, threatens UK nationals' rights in event of no-deal. Yet it's the UK that is persistently derided for using citizens as bargaining chips.

Links please for both statements....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssion-says

https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families

I read nothing about “bargaining chips.”
Probably something popped up in your “EU is evil” mind....

noviorbis77 · Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:34 pm

Klaus wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

Exactly.

Its all right him gloating, but after Eire, the Netherlands will suffer more than any other EU nation in the event of a no deal Brexit.

I think the Irish economy is supposed to sink 4-6% after brexit. EU not interested in protecting one of their economies and would rather try and punish the UK for going against intergration and takeover.

In short the EU doesn’t care about ireland.

As evidenced by from day one all the other 26 countries throwing their full combined weight behind Ireland's position without wavering, which took the UK government completely by surprise (although it shouldn't have)?

And you're sorely mistaken if you believe that our attitude towards Ireland will change post Brexit either.

What you are doing to yourselves and to all the countries around you will hurt all of us and Ireland will probably still suffer the most apart from the massive damage Brexit is doing to the UK itself, but you've just received a prime demonstration of how the EU does in fact take care of their own.

The UK, on the other hand, has chosen to go it alone, so you'll receive exactly what you've voted for, and since by your own choice you won't be one of us any more there's no point in whining about the consequences of your own decisions.

Go and ask Boris and Nigel for relief, since they should know where to get you all those rainbows and unicorns they had been promising to you.

Who is whinning?

I can’t wait to stick fingers up at the EU.

100 days to go.

99 tomorrow.

Klaus · Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:37 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

I think the Irish economy is supposed to sink 4-6% after brexit. EU not interested in protecting one of their economies and would rather try and punish the UK for going against intergration and takeover.

In short the EU doesn’t care about ireland.

As evidenced by from day one all the other 26 countries throwing their full combined weight behind Ireland's position without wavering, which took the UK government completely by surprise (although it shouldn't have)?

And you're sorely mistaken if you believe that our attitude towards Ireland will change post Brexit either.

What you are doing to yourselves and to all the countries around you will hurt all of us and Ireland will probably still suffer the most apart from the massive damage Brexit is doing to the UK itself, but you've just received a prime demonstration of how the EU does in fact take care of their own.

The UK, on the other hand, has chosen to go it alone, so you'll receive exactly what you've voted for, and since by your own choice you won't be one of us any more there's no point in whining about the consequences of your own decisions.

Go and ask Boris and Nigel for relief, since they should know where to get you all those rainbows and unicorns they had been promising to you.

Who is whinning?

You should try reading your own posts every once in a while.

I can’t wait to stick fingers up at the EU.

100 days to go.

99 tomorrow.

It's a tragedy when people totally commit to a destructive ideology.

Richard28 · Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:58 pm

Arion640 wrote:
In short the EU doesn’t care about ireland.

Wow, you really aren't following this closely are you?

noviorbis77 · Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:02 pm

Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
As evidenced by from day one all the other 26 countries throwing their full combined weight behind Ireland's position without wavering, which took the UK government completely by surprise (although it shouldn't have)?

And you're sorely mistaken if you believe that our attitude towards Ireland will change post Brexit either.

What you are doing to yourselves and to all the countries around you will hurt all of us and Ireland will probably still suffer the most apart from the massive damage Brexit is doing to the UK itself, but you've just received a prime demonstration of how the EU does in fact take care of their own.

The UK, on the other hand, has chosen to go it alone, so you'll receive exactly what you've voted for, and since by your own choice you won't be one of us any more there's no point in whining about the consequences of your own decisions.

Go and ask Boris and Nigel for relief, since they should know where to get you all those rainbows and unicorns they had been promising to you.

Who is whinning?

You should try reading your own posts every once in a while.

I can’t wait to stick fingers up at the EU.

100 days to go.

99 tomorrow.

It's a tragedy when people totally commit to a destructive ideology.

Ok Mr Expert

Arion640 · Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:11 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

Who is whinning?

You should try reading your own posts every once in a while.

I can’t wait to stick fingers up at the EU.

100 days to go.

99 tomorrow.

It's a tragedy when people totally commit to a destructive ideology.

Ok Mr Expert

All the Europhiles on this thread are experts, you should know this by now!

Richard28 · Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:19 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
marcelh wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
UK has unilaterally pledged to defend EU nationals' rights in UK, regardless of the type of Brexit. The EU, on the other hand, threatens UK nationals' rights in event of no-deal. Yet it's the UK that is persistently derided for using citizens as bargaining chips.

Links please for both statements....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ssion-says

https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families

Another glaring error from the Brexit supporting side.... Let me explain how this works.

The fundamental thing you fail on here is that this is not a EU issue at all - it is a sovereign one for the EU27 countries individually.

Each individual EU country deals with immigrants from third countries (which the UK will be on Brexit) on an individual basis - yes they are sovereign!

Hence the UK currently as a member of the EU deals with non EU immigration itself (which ironically is the bulk of immigration at around 2/3rds)

It is up to each individual EU27 country to determine the rights of UK nationals in their country post Brexit... However this was something they all signed up to as part of TM's deal, however on a No deal basis it falls back to each of the 27 states (although technically 26, as ROI is in the CTA)

From the UK side whilst you link to a government site for residency applications for EU nationals, this is based upon the framework of a deal being put in place. the underlying commitments here have never been offered by the UK on a unilateral basis should a deal not be put in place and nothing reciprocal is offered by the EU states.

Another side effect of this is that should UK rights be granted on a deal, then those rights are for that particular EU27 country only, they do not retain rights to travel, live, learn, work and retire in the remaining EU states.... so it is not a continuation of full freedoms of movement rights that are currently enjoyed.

So in short noviorbis77, you are fundamentally and technically wrong on both counts

Klaus · Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:22 pm

Arion640 wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
You should try reading your own posts every once in a while.

It's a tragedy when people totally commit to a destructive ideology.

Ok Mr Expert

All the Europhiles on this thread are experts, you should know this by now!

It's the other way around: Pretty much anybody who knows any actual, factual thing about the actual European Union (instead of just blindly believing in absurdly distorted propaganda about a purely fictitious entity some keep calling "the EU") sees Brexit as a massive mistake.

That certainly puts pretty much all actual experts in the Remain camp, yes, but also most regular citizens who actually bother to inform themselves from readily available fact-based sources.

Reality has an old habit of being biased against baseless ideology, and it's been hated by some for just as long.

Arion640 · Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:28 pm

Klaus wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:

Ok Mr Expert

All the Europhiles on this thread are experts, you should know this by now!

It's the other way around: Pretty much anybody who knows any actual, factual thing about the actual European Union (instead of just blindly believing in absurdly distorted propaganda about a purely fictitious entity some keep calling "the EU") sees Brexit as a massive mistake.

That certainly puts pretty much all actual experts in the Remain camp, yes, but also most regular citizens who actually bother to inform themselves from readily available fact-based sources.

Reality has an old habit of being biased against baseless ideology, and it's been hated by some for just as long.

A hugely arrogant post.

5427247845 · Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:39 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

All the Europhiles on this thread are experts, you should know this by now!

It's the other way around: Pretty much anybody who knows any actual, factual thing about the actual European Union (instead of just blindly believing in absurdly distorted propaganda about a purely fictitious entity some keep calling "the EU") sees Brexit as a massive mistake.

That certainly puts pretty much all actual experts in the Remain camp, yes, but also most regular citizens who actually bother to inform themselves from readily available fact-based sources.

Reality has an old habit of being biased against baseless ideology, and it's been hated by some for just as long.

A hugely arrogant post.

Pot
Kettle
Black

Richard28 · Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:42 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

All the Europhiles on this thread are experts, you should know this by now!

It's the other way around: Pretty much anybody who knows any actual, factual thing about the actual European Union (instead of just blindly believing in absurdly distorted propaganda about a purely fictitious entity some keep calling "the EU") sees Brexit as a massive mistake.

That certainly puts pretty much all actual experts in the Remain camp, yes, but also most regular citizens who actually bother to inform themselves from readily available fact-based sources.

Reality has an old habit of being biased against baseless ideology, and it's been hated by some for just as long.

A hugely arrogant post.

There is a basis to Klaus’s argument here Arion640.

Look at today as an example, accusations of lack of democracy, where we have then demonstrated factually that this is incorrect.

Just now we have had a conversation about immigration where the fundamental basis of the leavers argument is flawed and we have explained the realities.

This is a continual theme on these threads where an accusation is made and where we then answer that criticism and provide evidence..

It is never ending and we go back over the same arguments again and again.

I am all for scientific theory, and exploring through questioning assumptions and positions, however when the other side doesn’t listen or take these things on board and regurgitates the same things again, I have to agree with Klaus regrettably.

Klaus · Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:56 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

All the Europhiles on this thread are experts, you should know this by now!

It's the other way around: Pretty much anybody who knows any actual, factual thing about the actual European Union (instead of just blindly believing in absurdly distorted propaganda about a purely fictitious entity some keep calling "the EU") sees Brexit as a massive mistake.

That certainly puts pretty much all actual experts in the Remain camp, yes, but also most regular citizens who actually bother to inform themselves from readily available fact-based sources.

Reality has an old habit of being biased against baseless ideology, and it's been hated by some for just as long.

A hugely arrogant post.

No, there is nothing keeping anyone from learning more about the actual facts. There is absolutely nothing special to any people who are looking for facts before emotions and no secrets or restrictions of access.

This is not about "intelligence" (which is rarely a main issue anyway), it is just simply about leaving emotions aside and looking at the actual facts. And anyone can do that.

There are no "my facts" or "your facts", there are only facts.

Demagogues try to whip up people's emotions until the people can be led by the nose to wherever those demagogues want them. I'm german and every day I'm looking at consequences of that having happened here.

You've got your answer there in case you'd been wondering why I abhor and detest the decades-long decline of british politics into a cesspool of emotionalized propaganda, suspicions and unsubstantiated allegations where there should have been rational evaluation of cold, hard facts and maybe a bit more openness to positive ideals instead of just fear and loathing of the others you've been pointed at by some radical demagogues.

Nobody is actually helpless against that, though, because anybody can at any time say: "Wait a second, this feels all rousing and engaging as far as it goes, but can we check a few actual facts before we go and smash everything to pieces?"

And those facts are all out in the open for anyone to learn. There is actually no need to remain caught up in emotional propaganda unless one chooses to stay stuck in there.

Arion640 · Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:45 am

Shocking action by the EU.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.expr ... latest/amp

Meanwhile...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.tele ... ozone/amp/

Klaus · Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:48 am

Arion640 wrote:
Shocking action by the EU.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.expr ... latest/amp

What did you expect? This is contingency planning to protect the EU from at least some of the most disruptive effects of a no deal Brexit in case the UK chooses to go that route.

For the EU27 the Brexit deal is done and dusted. The EU27 have fully agreed to it and will ratify it once the UK does, too.

It's UK politicians who are gambling with a no deal outcome, not the EU27.

So our leaders plan for the case that yours might indeed lob that hand grenade across the channel.

And Gibraltar just happens to be pretty much of no relevance to the EU27 in that regard, so it gets no special cushioning.

What exactly does surprise you about this? If your politicians choose to crash out with no deal all bets are off and it's everyone for themselves! (Meaning the EU27 will take care of all of their own and the UK is on its own.)

Meanwhile...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.tele ... ozone/amp/

Yeah, if the UK shoots its own brains out there will be some splatter on us, too. But that's what we're rolling the tarps out for.

And if you continue to blindly believe whatever such poisonous rags are pouring into your ears you're in a seriously bad place.

What the Withdrawal Agreement is for is to settle the accounts (without which not just the EU but also any other country would not be touching the UK with a barge pole after Brexit!), to stabilize a critical peace treaty and to safeguard civic rights.

And the Transition Agreement does indeed require almost all obligations from the UK, but it also confers almost all the benefits of EU membership, too! Just of course no voting rights which is obvious under such circumstances, but it would still be far better than any post-transition status will ever be, so you'd better count your blessings there, too.

That your favourite sources are so callously glossing over those critical preconditions for any future Brexit Britain could hope to have is quite horrid – and in its consequence highly unpatriotic, too.

Those tabloids are driving crude and mendacious propaganda of the kind which fueled two world wars in the last century – just this time almost all of it is singularly coming from the british isles while the continent looks on in consternation, but also in unity, and is not playing along any more.

P.S.: It is extremely rude to post those Google-wrapped links so every reader clicking on those links without stripping off the Google redirection from the URL is automatically subjected to an extra round of Google tracking and observation (complete with IP location tracking etc.). Plus, the prefix makes the shortened URLs in the post meaningless and intransparent. So please stop using that!

NH203 · Thu Dec 20, 2018 3:24 am

scbriml wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Shocking video. Glad we are leaving and becoming our own self governing nation. No more ever closer union.

https://youtu.be/vv5O_Gq30ow

Seriously? Are they all clones? Where's the diversity (oh, that's right, there isn't any)? Grumpy old white people wanting the 1950s back.

That old video is so unrepresentative of British society in 2018 it isn't true.

And it is full of lies too. The notion that within the continental law system everything that is not explicitly permitted by law is forbidden is so factually inaccurate that it seems absured to me that someone would even make such a claim. It's like claiming that the sky is green.

I had to stop watching it about halfway through because I couldn't listen to their lies anymore. Surely they must know better?

keesje · Thu Dec 20, 2018 6:57 am

noviorbis77 wrote:
https://twitter.com/evertonal/status/1074687741269549057?s=12

This is embarrassing.

Did the public really elect this clown as EU President?

The guy was brought in by a wheelchair vack stage, because of severe lower back pain and had heavy medication. He refused to show up in the wheelchair and this was the visible result.

These days some people base their votes on fake news like this. The russians invest heavily in it, to create chaos in the west. But it works because many quickly loose judgement if they see something that confirms deep pre occupations.

Sad but truth..

Btw Netherlands is one of the fastest growing economies in the EU, trading with everyone. Don't worry. UK will be intersting, who will they try to blame.. make Boris minister of Healthcare or Economic affairs!

seahawk · Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:05 am

Klaus wrote:
seahawk wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Shocking video. Glad we are leaving and becoming our own self governing nation. No more ever closer union.

https://youtu.be/vv5O_Gq30ow

And gladly the EU is wanting to punish the UK, so the hard Brexit is coming ,which hurts the EU more than the UK. Ireland, the Netherlands will see a long recession, while the UK ´s economy is predicted to become the fastest growing in Europe. #winning

Just checking in: Do you really think that your trolling of the poor Leavers is still funny?

I am not trolling, I am 100% supporting their wish to leave.

scbriml · Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:05 am

Klaus wrote:
And Gibraltar just happens to be pretty much of no relevance to the EU27 in that regard, so it gets no special cushioning.

Yeah, ask Spain if Gibraltar is of no relevance. :scratchchin:

Gibraltar's getting shafted precisely because of its massive relevance to one of the EU27. I'm not saying the UK is blameless in this, but leaving Gibraltar out of EU no-deal planning is down to Spain.

Eyad89 · Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:12 am

A decade from now, the world will have three giants: US, China, and India. You can also add EU to the list . Now, how can the UK defend its interests going against those giants? Its economy won't be as strong as it was in the 20th century. It will lose a lot of its influence in the future without the backing of the EU. Just a reminder: the great British Empire no longer exists.

Grizzly410 · Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:19 am

marcelh wrote:
noviorbis77 wrote:
UK has unilaterally pledged to defend EU nationals' rights in UK, regardless of the type of Brexit. The EU, on the other hand, threatens UK nationals' rights in event of no-deal. Yet it's the UK that is persistently derided for using citizens as bargaining chips.

Links please for both statements....

Could you please indicate what's the threat you're talking about ?
Maybe the use of "should" hurts you? You know that's because member's state are sovereign and commission can't dictate its will :scratchchin:

, right ?

http://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/fil ... -ip_en.pdf

EUROPEAN COMMISSION PRESS RELEASE wrote:

Putting citizens’ rights first: right to stay and social security coordination
The Commission has consistently put citizens first throughout these negotiations and throughout its “no-deal” preparedness and contingency work. Today’s Communication invites Member States to take a generous approach to the rights of UK citizens in the EU, provided that this approach is reciprocated by the UK.
In particular, Member States should take measures to ensure that UK citizens legally residing in the EU on the date of withdrawal will continue to be considered legal residents. Member States should adopt a pragmatic approach to granting temporary residence status. It is recalled that the Commission has already adopted a proposal for a Regulation which exempts UK nationals from visa requirements, provided that all EU citizens are equally exempt from UK visa requirements.
As regards social security coordination, the Commission considers it necessary that Member States take all possible steps to ensure legal certainty and to protect the rights acquired by EU27 citizens and UK nationals who exercised their right to free movement before 30 March 2019.

The Q&A document released on the same day makes a good read too.
https://ec.europa.eu/info/publications/ ... on-plan_en

I start to believe UK may go to the crash, that’s insane but nothing surprise me anymore.

Richard28 · Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:54 am

Arion640 wrote:
Shocking action by the EU.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.expr ... latest/amp

nothing shocking at all. the UK's actions have consequences.

Read the EU's plans on No deal... this is just the start, UK is about to become a third country with much less standing and power. It will hit us hard in many many areas.

The EU will look after itself, and quite rightly too.

https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/fi ... -final.pdf
https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/fi ... nda_en.pdf

Arion640 wrote:
Meanwhile...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.tele ... ozone/amp/

It will hit us a lot, lot harder..... we will potentially be trading on WTO terms only.

Only Mauritania trades on that basis in the whole world..

There is a reason countries have trade deals and don't rely on WTO - it is because relying on WTO only is an awful place to be.

Arion640 · Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:34 am

NH203 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Shocking video. Glad we are leaving and becoming our own self governing nation. No more ever closer union.

https://youtu.be/vv5O_Gq30ow

Seriously? Are they all clones? Where's the diversity (oh, that's right, there isn't any)? Grumpy old white people wanting the 1950s back.

That old video is so unrepresentative of British society in 2018 it isn't true.

And it is full of lies too. The notion that within the continental law system everything that is not explicitly permitted by law is forbidden is so factually inaccurate that it seems absured to me that someone would even make such a claim. It's like claiming that the sky is green.

I had to stop watching it about halfway through because I couldn't listen to their lies anymore. Surely they must know better?

An opinion you don’t agree with?

That’s ok, just keep repeating “ Lies “ over and over.

scbriml · Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:48 am

Arion640 wrote:
That’s ok, just keep repeating “ Lies “ over and over.

There are inaccuracies, misunderstandings and outright lies. Brexiteers repeating inaccuracies and misunderstandings (ignorance) about how the EU works become lies. Like the lies on the side of big red buses (remember those?)

Did we ever see your solution to the Irish border issue?

Arion640 · Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:56 am

scbriml wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
That’s ok, just keep repeating “ Lies “ over and over.

There are inaccuracies, misunderstandings and outright lies. Brexiteers repeating inaccuracies and misunderstandings (ignorance) about how the EU works become lies. Like the lies on the side of big red buses (remember those?)

Did we ever see your solution to the Irish border issue?

There you go again. You don’t agree so it’s a lie.

Richard28 · Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:02 am

scbriml wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
That’s ok, just keep repeating “ Lies “ over and over.

There are inaccuracies, misunderstandings and outright lies. Brexiteers repeating inaccuracies and misunderstandings (ignorance) about how the EU works become lies. Like the lies on the side of big red buses (remember those?)

Did we ever see your solution to the Irish border issue?

Timely reminder scbriml!

if I recall there was an easy solution to this and Arion640 was going to come back to us.....? anything yet Arion640? :confused:

In the meantime, speaking of lies,Andrea Leadsom is campaigning for a "managed No-Deal" within the cabinet apparently

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/po ... splits-she

This is quite simply an oxymoron.

It is either a Deal, obliging in full the terms of withdrawal including (1) Northern Ireland, (2) Citizens Rights and (3) Divorce payment, or No Deal, which would incur emergency protocols imposed upon on the UK only when it is to the benefit of the EU member states.

To pretend there is anything in between is such nonsense it beggars belief.... but that is the state of politics in the UK, politicians are still living in a fantasy land, where they still don't understand the dynamics of where they are let alone the implications of their actions.

Arion640 · Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:14 am

Richard28 wrote:
scbriml wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
That’s ok, just keep repeating “ Lies “ over and over.

There are inaccuracies, misunderstandings and outright lies. Brexiteers repeating inaccuracies and misunderstandings (ignorance) about how the EU works become lies. Like the lies on the side of big red buses (remember those?)

Did we ever see your solution to the Irish border issue?

Timely reminder scbriml!

if I recall there was an easy solution to this and Arion640 was going to come back to us.....? anything yet Arion640?

In the meantime, speaking of lies,Andrea Leadsom is campaigning for a "managed No-Deal" within the cabinet apparently

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/po ... splits-she

This is quite simply an oxymoron.

It is either a Deal, obliging in full the terms of withdrawal including (1) Northern Ireland, (2) Citizens Rights and (3) Divorce payment, or No Deal, which would incur emergency protocols imposed upon on the UK only when it is to the benefit of the EU member states.

To pretend there is anything in between is such nonsense it beggars belief.... but that is the state of politics in the UK, politicians are still living in a fantasy land, where they still don't understand the dynamics of where they are let alone the implications of their actions.

I don’t agree with this. You’re telling lies.

scbriml · Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:22 am

Arion640 wrote:
There you go again. You don’t agree so it’s a lie.

You just don't get it, do you? We're not talking about opinions, we're talking about FACTS. Continually repeating non-facts (like on the side of a bus, or "easiest trade deal ever") makes it a lie.

I understand facts are apparently a difficult concept for most Brexiteers. Lies, empty slogans and catchphrases, and more critically no solutions, are much easier.

tommy1808 · Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:32 am

Richard28 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Meanwhile...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.tele ... ozone/amp/

Only Mauritania trades on that basis in the whole world.. .

And they are a developing country, so they can export to pretty much all places that matter with zero tariff.

best regards
Thomas

Arion640 · Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:42 am

scbriml wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
There you go again. You don’t agree so it’s a lie.

You just don't get it, do you? We're not talking about opinions, we're talking about FACTS. Continually repeating non-facts (like on the side of a bus, or "easiest trade deal ever") makes it a lie.

I understand facts are apparently a difficult concept for most Brexiteers. Lies, empty slogans and catchphrases, and more critically no solutions, are much easier.

And we’re talking about freedom, democracy and most important of all: taking back control.

Richard28 · Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:58 am

Arion640 wrote:
I don’t agree with this. You’re telling lies.

No from an earlier thread you said this:

Arion640 wrote:
I’ll answer your points regarding Northern ireland.

You promised an answer...that was back in July..... but have refused to share it with us...

Richard28 · Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:05 pm

Arion640 wrote:
And we’re talking about freedom, democracy and most important of all: taking back control.

Freedom : Brexit is removing our Freedom of movement rights
Democracy : Brexit is removing democractic representation in the EU, whilst we will almost certainly have to abide by many of its rules
Taking Back Control : 3,500 soldiers on stanby, NHS purchasing hundreds of fridges to stock medicines, loss of 85 trad deals, loss of access to single market, risk to Gibraltars future, risk to Northern Ireland border, devaluation of Sterling, loss of EMA, loss of Galileo, loss of Horizon 2020, loss of Euratom, risk to EU air rights, EUR7.00 cost to enter the EU, risk to manufacturing jobs, No WTO schedules, WTO GPA still not in place.......

Arion640 · Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:09 pm

Richard28 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
And we’re talking about freedom, democracy and most important of all: taking back control.

Freedom : Brexit is removing our Freedom of movement rights

Democracy : Brexit is removing democractic representation in the EU, whilst we will almost certainly have to abide by many of its rules

Taking Back Control : 3,500 soldiers on stanby, NHS purchasing hundreds of fridges to stock medicines, loss of 85 trad deals, loss of access to single market, risk to Gibraltars future, risk to Northern Ireland border, devaluation of Sterling, loss of EMA, loss of Galileo, loss of Horizon 2020, loss of Euratom, risk to EU air rights, EUR7.00 cost to enter the EU, risk to manufacturing jobs, No WTO schedules, WTO GPA still not in place.......

1 . Thank god it is before we get overrun.

2. I’m sure we will have too if we want to trade with them. No biggie. I’d rather do that than handing over billions each year. Lets fund our NHS instead.

3. All Temporary. It will get sorted out.

seahawk · Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:15 pm

When free the UK will make trade deals with the Commonwealth, the USA, India and China that will be much better than the deal with the EU and the UK will be the global trading nation again.

Dutchy · Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:19 pm

noviorbis77 wrote:
Who is whinning?

I can’t wait to stick fingers up at the EU.

100 days to go.

99 tomorrow.

Who's winning? Well, you have created the perfect Loose - Loose. So neither the EU nor Great Britain is winning, everyone is loosing out because of Brexit. Whom stand to loose more? Clearly Britain. So who's winning? Putin's regime and China.
Congratulations! I do hope that is why you have voted Brexit and make it worse by demanding a hard Brexit.

SomebodyInTLS · Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:39 pm

Arion640 wrote:
I don’t agree with this. You’re telling lies.

You clearly don't understand the English language...

Klaus · Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:44 pm

seahawk wrote:
Klaus wrote:
seahawk wrote:

And gladly the EU is wanting to punish the UK, so the hard Brexit is coming ,which hurts the EU more than the UK. Ireland, the Netherlands will see a long recession, while the UK ´s economy is predicted to become the fastest growing in Europe. #winning

Just checking in: Do you really think that your trolling of the poor Leavers is still funny?

I am not trolling, I am 100% supporting their wish to leave.

From all I've seen not for the reasons stated, though.

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