• 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 14
 
Olddog
Topic Author
Posts: 808
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:31 am

previous part can be found here

As the WA is done at technical level (Sabine Weyland and Ollie Robins sealed it), only the fight between tories and DUP is blocking it.
Yesterday, May managed to go to Brussels and not insult everyone for a change, things are just stalled and the special november summit is cancelled for now.
 
User avatar
SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1283
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:31 pm

LOL at the title...
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
User avatar
zkojq
Posts: 3336
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:38 pm

A nice summary of the past days negotiations:
Image

Maybe time for the UK to start stepping up plans for 'No Deal'.

I'm not normally one who watches political speeches, but yesterday I took the time to watch Nicola Sturgeon's address to the RSA a few days ago. She makes an excellent case for remaining in the Single Market and the Customs Union. It seems to be the only logical course of action at this point, though of course it would be politically unpalatable to the hardcore Brexiteers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a94_vCo1fEw

Rich man says it's better for others to be poor
Sir Michael Caine on Brexit: Better to be poor outside the EU than rich in it.

Sir Michael Caine said he remains a Brexit supporter despite the impact it might have on the UK economy.

Speaking on Radio 4’s Today programme, the renowned actor said: "I don't listen to all these pundits. I'm a Brexiteer myself. Certainly.

“People say ‘Oh, you’ll be poor, you’ll be this, you’ll be that’. I say I’d rather be a poor master of my fate than having someone I don’t know making me rich by running it.”


The wealthy are always plenty eager to let everyone else know they won't care if they become a little less rich. Such patriotism!

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 65141.html


Pro-Brexit politicians who say UK voters must be held to their decision in the 2016 referendum say..

..that they themselves should not be held to their decisions to accept the backstop in December 2017 and March 2018 because they were "misled".

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/sta ... 8687784960

At least, I hope she will not dance again. So much cruelty for our eyes.....


Am I the only one who doesn't hate May's dancing?

Who?

So the UK is not hopelessly torn apart? Could have fooled me.

That the Brexiteers are now trying to argue that the UK government is somehow united is quite telling. :roll:


But it is not a visa. It is a waiver.

Is it for all travel to EU countries or just via air?

The UK should bring in something similar. A tenner for a year is fair and reasonable.

It is amusing though. Juncker said “We need to know who is crossing our borders. This way we will know who is travelling to Europe before they even get here“ and yet with the complete mess of the migrant crisis, you have absolutely no idea who has come in overland into the Schengen area and great EU area. Seems to be punishing those that enter lawfully whilst ignoring those that enter clandestinely. Absolute farce.


And it happens again! Outrage as people who voted to abolish free movement of people discover that abolishing free movement means movement of people will no longer be free.

You just cannot make this shit up!

https://i.imgur.com/Iwuth3h.jpg
Most recent aircraft flown: A318 F-GUGQ, A319 F-GRHR, A320ceo D-AIZH, A320neo D-AINE, A330-300 VH-QPD, A350-900 B-LRA, A380-800 D-AIMH, 717 VH-YQW, 737-600 LN-RPA, 737-700 OY-JTY, 737-800 LN-NGA, 767-300 ZK-NCI, 777-300 ZK-OKN, 787-9 VH-ZNA, CS100 HB-JBG
 
Bostrom
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:52 pm

zkojq wrote:
Maybe time for the UK to start stepping up plans for 'No Deal'.


It seems like the UK is quietly starting to prepare for no deal. https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-plan ... exit-deal/
 
User avatar
Richard28
Posts: 2478
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:17 pm

Theresa May saying right now in Brussels that she thinks the back stop is only needed for "a few months" whilst the future economic relationship is negotiated and implemented.

She still apparently does not understand that:

a) the outcomes of that negotiation would effectively have to match those of the backstop to make no border necessary, so if the backstop is unpaletable to cabinet the future trading relationship will also be, and
b) the EU view on the backstop is that is the long term guarantee for the Good Friday agreement and no border - it is not intended as a bridge for "a few months" but a permanent backstop should negotiations fail in this area.

She has (publicly) moved nowhere forward in negotiations or understanding (no doubt to appease brexstremist elements in her party)

On the possible extension of the implementation period, a crucial factor here is that the backstop needs to be agreed before entering this period, so this alone gives no further time to negotiate the Northern Ireland Border issue. It is only an extension of Article 50 period (or indeed cancellation thereof) that would extend the period of negotiation on the backstop.

zkojq wrote:
Maybe time for the UK to start stepping up plans for 'No Deal'.

It is likely that Parliament would not allow a "no deal" through parliament - although Theresa May is trying to obstruct this democratic process.

This is often not mentioned as this is Theresa Mays only way of appearing tough to her domestic audience. Adam Boulton (Sky News journalist) has even off the record been told by a Brexit supporting MP that it would lead the UK into a recession. Nearly all the opposition parties would try obstruct a no deal in parliament, meaning only a handful of conservatives are needed - which would appear to be the case.
 
sevenair
Posts: 2727
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:36 pm

Bostrom wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Maybe time for the UK to start stepping up plans for 'No Deal'.


It seems like the UK is quietly starting to prepare for no deal. https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-plan ... exit-deal/


It's been publishing no deal guidance on a range of subjects for months. There is no such thing as 'no deal'. Leaving without a deal means a WTO solution.
Diversity is our strength. Unless it's diversity of opinion, then anything is fair game.
 
User avatar
Richard28
Posts: 2478
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:47 pm

sevenair wrote:
It's been publishing no deal guidance on a range of subjects for months. There is no such thing as 'no deal'. Leaving without a deal means a WTO solution.


"no deal" refers to the UK having no deal with the EU on leaving, that means no agreements in place on everything from transport, digital, money, tax, rights etc.

Unless "mini deals" are then separately done, it literally means amongst other things no flights between EU and UK.

Defaulting to WTO terms would also offer, in the short term, no deal, as there are no schedules in place (although trade can happen, it would be subject to future legal disputes) and no Government Procurement contracts would currently be allowed (2 trillion USD market which has been blocked for UK by New Zealand, Moldova and USA).

As such a "No Deal" or WTO option (if that's how you prefer to phrase it) is a very dangerous place for our economy.
 
sevenair
Posts: 2727
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2001 7:18 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:07 pm

WTO is the only solution to the freedom, control and sovereignty that brexit was to deliver.
Diversity is our strength. Unless it's diversity of opinion, then anything is fair game.
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:32 pm

sevenair wrote:
WTO is the only solution to the freedom, control and sovereignty that brexit was to deliver.


Well as we've proven time and time again, leaving to trade under WTO rules is utter madness. The way the WTO is going right now with Trump and China, I'd think a level of certainty with the words biggest single market, and access to over 80 trade agreements with countries outside of the EU is a billion times better than that.

And you're off with 'Sovereignty' again. Pathetic.
 
wingman
Posts: 3495
Joined: Thu May 27, 1999 4:25 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:33 pm

Every time I think the US is completely FUBAR with Trump in charge I just come to this thread. Einstein was right about that relativity thing.
 
User avatar
Richard28
Posts: 2478
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:16 pm

sevenair wrote:
WTO is the only solution to the freedom, control and sovereignty that brexit was to deliver.


So
- loss of all 65+ trade deals
- no WTO schedules
- no government procurement contracts
- all trade subject to future legal dispute and uncertainty
- loss of transport links to E.U.
- no transition phase for our businesses to migrate to new structure
- failure of Good Friday agreement
- years to negotiate any new trade deals, which over time would likely just replace what we had

There are the bad bits, what are the good bits of WTO / no deal option?
 
ltbewr
Posts: 13577
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:33 pm

I wonder what the real powers in the UK, the London "City" banking, insurance and financial leaders think about they way Brexit is not going. The big money hates uncertainty as can lose big money from it. I bet they are pushing (including bribery and extortion of politicians) for some deal to be done in time to save their assets and investments with the side benefit of saving 1000's of jobs not going to the EC. Of course the UK will still have its shady tax havens like the Virgin Islands, Bermuda, etc., but being part of the EC is important to them too.
 
Arion640
Posts: 1984
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:45 pm

319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

“No bumps, no bangs - Concorde”
 
User avatar
Richard28
Posts: 2478
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:51 pm

Arion640 wrote:
https://youtu.be/X8aiAphx2L0

A good watch.


And yet we already did not use the full EU immigration rules available to us, so this does not really fly.
 
Bostrom
Posts: 536
Joined: Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:17 pm

Richard28 wrote:
There are the bad bits, what are the good bits of WTO / no deal option?


Blue passports? Joking aside, as someone watching from one of the EU27 countries it's really hard to understand british politics at the moment.
 
Arion640
Posts: 1984
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:37 pm

Bostrom wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
There are the bad bits, what are the good bits of WTO / no deal option?


Blue passports? Joking aside, as someone watching from one of the EU27 countries it's really hard to understand british politics at the moment.


I don’t think anyone in Britain understands British Politics at the minute.

I wonder if anymore letters have gone to the 22 today.
319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

“No bumps, no bangs - Concorde”
 
Arion640
Posts: 1984
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:38 pm

sevenair wrote:
WTO is the only solution to the freedom, control and sovereignty that brexit was to deliver.


Exactly. Taking back control.
319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

“No bumps, no bangs - Concorde”
 
User avatar
Dutchy
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:25 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:13 pm

Arion640 wrote:
sevenair wrote:
WTO is the only solution to the freedom, control and sovereignty that brexit was to deliver.


Exactly. Taking back control.


Well, some countries are objecting to the UK............
Many happy landings, greetings from The Netherlands!
 
tommy1808
Posts: 9171
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:53 am

sevenair wrote:
Bostrom wrote:
zkojq wrote:
Maybe time for the UK to start stepping up plans for 'No Deal'.


It seems like the UK is quietly starting to prepare for no deal. https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-plan ... exit-deal/


It's been publishing no deal guidance on a range of subjects for months. There is no such thing as 'no deal'. Leaving without a deal means a WTO solution.


Yeah... their advice to northern Ireland businesses is: talk to the RoI government. In other words: we don't have a clue or plan.

Of course there is a no deal Brexit, especially since there is no WTO solution. You don't have a deal at the WTO, you are only a member.
Your WTO solution means either:
a) copy everything the EU does and hope all WTO members agree, with no say for the UK
b) dropping all import tariffs and trade barriers to zero unilaterally, opening your market completely and never ever have any say about tariffs or trade barriers ever again. Everybody else will of course apply their schedule tariffs to yiur products.

It would appear that a no deal Brexit does make you a (trade) vassal state of the EU or every other WTO members bitch.

And different to the EU many former Colonies seem to have an axe to grind.....

Best regards
Thonas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Klaus
Posts: 20887
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 5:15 am

Arion640 wrote:
https://youtu.be/X8aiAphx2L0

A good watch.


Hans-Olaf Henkel is a deep-fringe crank and conspiracy theorist with zero actual influence and even less actual insights into anything.

He's just reinforcing other people with similar bonkers ideas.
 
User avatar
Richard28
Posts: 2478
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:01 am

Arion640 wrote:
sevenair wrote:
WTO is the only solution to the freedom, control and sovereignty that brexit was to deliver.


Exactly. Taking back control.


Please do explain how I am democratically eepresented at the WTO and the control we will have over the other 163 members agreeing our quotas and tariffs.

You may want to examine the case of Moldova I posted above.

Your ‘taking back contril’ Statement is all air and no substance (and always has been)
 
Arion640
Posts: 1984
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:04 am

Klaus wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
https://youtu.be/X8aiAphx2L0

A good watch.


Hans-Olaf Henkel is a deep-fringe crank and conspiracy theorist with zero actual influence and even less actual insights into anything.

He's just reinforcing other people with similar bonkers ideas.


Another person who doesn’t agree with your view point, oh well he must be a maniac then!
319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

“No bumps, no bangs - Concorde”
 
User avatar
Braybuddy
Posts: 6426
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:14 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:43 am

I'm mostly switched-off to the Brexit debate, even though it will affect us here in Ireland more than most otther EU countries (I can only take so much speculation: wake me up when it's over and give me the bad news), but there is one thing I am curious about: the DUP have ten seats at Westminster and have Teresa May over a barrel. Sinn Féin have only seven, so is there any way they could affect any Brexit vote? I'm thinking of defections or abstentions from the major parties, or are they ever an issue? I'm just curious as I'm sick to death of their pontificating and lecturing about Brexit, yet they refuse to take their seats.
 
User avatar
Richard28
Posts: 2478
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:24 am

Sin Fein whilst holding seats at Westminster have never used them on principle, so their Seven seats and votes are in effect wasted in this debate.

They could always change their minds and have a vote, but have always said they would not do this.
 
User avatar
Braybuddy
Posts: 6426
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 8:14 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:33 am

Richard28 wrote:
Sin Fein whilst holding seats at Westminster have never used them on principle, so their Seven seats and votes are in effect wasted in this debate.

They could always change their minds and have a vote, but have always said they would not do this.

Yes, I know, but I'm just wondering what would happen IF they did. They are coming under increasing pressure here to do so. Their argument is that it wouldn't affect the numbers, but if there were defections or abstentions it would. So I'm wondering if that could ever be a possibility?
 
User avatar
Richard28
Posts: 2478
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:48 am

Even without Sinn Fein, parliamentary arithmetic means Theresa May needs labour support to accept her deal, and it is likely that parliament would block a no deal solution based on current numbers.

So am not sure their votes are entirely necessary, however like all these things precise numbers are not known so it would certainly make life harder for the DUP and the brexstremists if they did come on board.
 
User avatar
Richard28
Posts: 2478
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:08 am

Great News for the EU:

Singapore - EU trade deal is signed http://news.trust.org//item/20181019084742-40h3d/

Bad news for the UK:

Unless we stay in Customs Union we will not benefit from this
oh, and it took 8 years to negotiate....

Brexit is not "going global"
 
agill
Posts: 1007
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:49 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:17 am

Richard28 wrote:
Unless we stay in Customs Union we will not benefit from this
oh, and it took 8 years to negotiate....

Brexit is not "going global"


But you'll be "Taking back control", whatever that means.
 
User avatar
Richard28
Posts: 2478
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:30 am

agill wrote:

But you'll be "Taking back control", whatever that means.


Nope!! Governments such as Moldova have more influence on our economic future than the British people have after Brexit!
 
Klaus
Posts: 20887
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2001 7:41 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 12:59 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Klaus wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
https://youtu.be/X8aiAphx2L0

A good watch.


Hans-Olaf Henkel is a deep-fringe crank and conspiracy theorist with zero actual influence and even less actual insights into anything.

He's just reinforcing other people with similar bonkers ideas.


Another person who doesn’t agree with your view point, oh well he must be a maniac then!


The problem is that you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel, hard, to come up with any people outside of the UK thinking that Brexit was a great idea.
 
Arion640
Posts: 1984
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:25 pm

Klaus wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Klaus wrote:

Hans-Olaf Henkel is a deep-fringe crank and conspiracy theorist with zero actual influence and even less actual insights into anything.

He's just reinforcing other people with similar bonkers ideas.


Another person who doesn’t agree with your view point, oh well he must be a maniac then!


The problem is that you have to scrape the bottom of the barrel, hard, to come up with any people outside of the UK thinking that Brexit was a great idea.


There’s plenty around the world who think brexit is a great idea. No barrel scraping required.
319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

“No bumps, no bangs - Concorde”
 
Arion640
Posts: 1984
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:26 pm

Richard28 wrote:
agill wrote:

But you'll be "Taking back control", whatever that means.


Nope!! Governments such as Moldova have more influence on our economic future than the British people have after Brexit!


What a silly statement, how on earth did you draw that conclusion?
319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

“No bumps, no bangs - Concorde”
 
Reinhardt
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:29 pm

Arion640 wrote:
There’s plenty around the world who think brexit is a great idea. No barrel scraping required.


Only those of a very right wing persuasion, those with something to gain, those who are as uniformed as a lot of Brexiteers in the UK or those who have no knowledge of how the EU works. Ordinary folk think it's stupid.

Arion640 wrote:
What a silly statement, how on earth did you draw that conclusion?


Because one small, seemingly insignificant nation has shown how it can screw the UK's efforts to gain trade deal: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... 7-trillion along with others many think will do us favors, i.e USA, New Zealand. WTO is like the wild west.
 
User avatar
Richard28
Posts: 2478
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:59 pm

Reinhardt wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
What a silly statement, how on earth did you draw that conclusion?


Because one small, seemingly insignificant nation has shown how it can screw the UK's efforts to gain trade deal: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... 7-trillion along with others many think will do us favors, i.e USA, New Zealand. WTO is like the wild west.


Indeed, do keep up Arion640. If you are so keen on WTO terms / Hard Brexit you should be up to date with the GPA position and the vetos we received yesterday, posted in the previous thread:

Richard28 wrote:
So today our WTO Government Procurement Agreement was blocked by:

- USA
- New Zealand
- Moldova

interesting piece on why Moldova blocked is here:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... 7-trillion

The UK is putting itself in such a weak position here.... it's frankly embarrassing.
 
User avatar
SomebodyInTLS
Posts: 1283
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:31 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:11 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
agill wrote:

But you'll be "Taking back control", whatever that means.


Nope!! Governments such as Moldova have more influence on our economic future than the British people have after Brexit!


What a silly statement, how on earth did you draw that conclusion?


Try reading the last couple of pages of the last thread.

"WTO rules" means being beholden to every other country on Earth *LETTING US* do trade deals!
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
tommy1808
Posts: 9171
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:19 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:
agill wrote:

But you'll be "Taking back control", whatever that means.


Nope!! Governments such as Moldova have more influence on our economic future than the British people have after Brexit!


What a silly statement, how on earth did you draw that conclusion?


UK wanted, Moldova said no, UK didn't get. Easy.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
Dieuwer
Posts: 481
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:27 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:30 pm

BRINO, "Brexit in Name Only".
 
prebennorholm
Posts: 6804
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2000 6:25 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:16 am

Arion640 wrote:
There’s plenty around the world who think brexit is a great idea. No barrel scraping required.

You may be partially right, but probably not the way you imagine.

Here in EU27, two years ago after the referendum, there was pretty much consensus to regret the result.

But time has passed. In the meantime we have watched the intellectual capacity of the leaders the Britons have elected. And we have watched the sickening press which has brainwashed the population. Today it is not uncommon to hear that with Brexit the UK does a great favour to EU27.

I don't agree with that. Having worked for decades for a great British multinational company I have vast inside knowledge. I know that there are great capacities in Britain. Just too bad that these days they are overruled.

Personally I have nothing to worry about. My pension fund has been moved to safety in Paris.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
Arion640
Posts: 1984
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:47 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
Richard28 wrote:

Nope!! Governments such as Moldova have more influence on our economic future than the British people have after Brexit!


What a silly statement, how on earth did you draw that conclusion?


UK wanted, Moldova said no, UK didn't get. Easy.

Best regards
Thomas


Sure. But what does this have to do with the UK’s future?
319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

“No bumps, no bangs - Concorde”
 
User avatar
Richard28
Posts: 2478
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:08 pm

Arion640 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:

What a silly statement, how on earth did you draw that conclusion?


UK wanted, Moldova said no, UK didn't get. Easy.

Best regards
Thomas


Sure. But what does this have to do with the UK’s future?


Jeez, do we have to explain this to you, really?

If you are a British company trying to sell to US, American, Australian etc governments, or are an employee of one of those companies then quite frankly it matters a lot, and could determine whether those companies and employees stay in the UK or not.

through Brexit we not only lose democratic representation and a seat at the table in negotiations, we are going forward hostage to other states, for whatever reason or grudge they may hold.
 
Arion640
Posts: 1984
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Oct 20, 2018 6:29 pm

Richard28 wrote:
Arion640 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

UK wanted, Moldova said no, UK didn't get. Easy.

Best regards
Thomas


Sure. But what does this have to do with the UK’s future?


Jeez, do we have to explain this to you, really?

If you are a British company trying to sell to US, American, Australian etc governments, or are an employee of one of those companies then quite frankly it matters a lot, and could determine whether those companies and employees stay in the UK or not.

through Brexit we not only lose democratic representation and a seat at the table in negotiations, we are going forward hostage to other states, for whatever reason or grudge they may hold.


Still really don’t understand what point you’re trying to raise.
319 320 321 333 346 359 388 733 73G 738 744 752 753 763 772 77E 773 77W 788 789 E145 E175 E195 RJ85 F70 DH8C DH8D AT75

“No bumps, no bangs - Concorde”
 
User avatar
Richard28
Posts: 2478
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Oct 20, 2018 8:37 pm

Arion640 wrote:
Still really don’t understand what point you’re trying to raise.


Ask me a question and I will answer it.
 
User avatar
Richard28
Posts: 2478
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:32 pm

Anyhow, seeing as you're here Arion640.....

how about your long promised answer to the Northern Ireland question.... you said you had one three months ago, but have continually refused to share it, I'm sure lots of politicians would love to hear it, as no-one still seems to have an answer for this one....

Arion640 wrote:
I’m not sure where this whole NI border thing has come from that i have to apparently answer?
Richard28 wrote:

OK I'll try again:

How can you honour the Good Friday Agreement and avoid having a hard border with Northern Ireland, either:

a) on the Northern Ireland Border, or
b) in the Irish Sea

whilst avoiding extremely close harmonisation of rules and standards and being in a customs union with the EU.

I’ll answer your points regarding Northern ireland.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 9171
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:13 am

Arion640 wrote:
Sure. But what does this have to do with the UK’s future?


This is your future. Instead of the biggest market to get access to, it is just the puny UK market. No one dares pissing the EU of over government procurement risking losinng access to that market or even impeding that a bit, but the UK market alone is way, way to unimportant to even have small countries like that care about pissing you off.
Hence your future is: No sovereignty on trade, much, much less control than now.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
UltimoTiger777
Posts: 443
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:19 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:56 am

Richard28 wrote:
Great News for the EU:

Singapore - EU trade deal is signed http://news.trust.org//item/20181019084742-40h3d/

Bad news for the UK:

Unless we stay in Customs Union we will not benefit from this
oh, and it took 8 years to negotiate....

Brexit is not "going global"


Why do we need to stay in the Customs Union to do a deal with Singapore?

These four aren't in it and yet somehow they managed a trade deal with Singapore back in 2002.

http://www.efta.int/media/documents/leg ... eement.pdf

Oh sorry, there I go with that dreadful Norway option thing again, which remain and leave alike keep rubbishing with their lies.

In fact, can any of you actually explain how any Brexit deal where we stay in the CU actually solves any of our issues? Certainly doesn't solve the Irish border one.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 9171
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:33 am

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
In fact, can any of you actually explain how any Brexit deal where we stay in the CU actually solves any of our issues? Certainly doesn't solve the Irish border one.


There simply is no border issue if you stay in the customs union. It would solve all problems but the imagined once almost as good as simply staying in the EU.

Why do we need to stay in the Customs Union to do a deal with Singapore


You don't

These four aren't in it and yet somehow they managed a trade deal with Singapore back in 2002


A) Singapore did' t have a reason to tell them "sort your dealings with the EU out first".
B) they had all the time in the world to get the deal registered at the WTO
C) there wasn't a directly competing free trade agreement
D) there was no pre-existing closely not business relationship with other countries to consider.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
JJJ
Posts: 3039
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:03 am

tommy1808 wrote:
UltimoTiger777 wrote:
In fact, can any of you actually explain how any Brexit deal where we stay in the CU actually solves any of our issues? Certainly doesn't solve the Irish border one.


There simply is no border issue if you stay in the customs union. It would solve all problems but the imagined once almost as good as simply staying in the EU.


Just staying in the CU doesn't solve the border issue. Turkey is in a CU with the EU and the border for people is still quite hard (visa needed). Norway, OTOH, is not on the CU because of their opt-outs on things like fisheries, agriculture, etc. Remember the 2011 butter crisis in Norway, where several people were caught smuggling butter into Norway (mostly from Sweden).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_butter_crisis

They have freedom of movement, though.

So, in order for the border in Ireland to be invisible you need to be both in the CU and have freedom of movement. Anything else is just different levels of hardness and enforcement. It's up to the UK to figure out just how hard is acceptable.
 
User avatar
Richard28
Posts: 2478
Joined: Thu Aug 14, 2003 5:42 am

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:31 am

To have no border you need common rules and standards, eg single market, you also need no customs checks, hence customs union is also needed.

Freedom of movement is one of the four pillars of the single market which the E.U. will not give up and UK wants to cherry pick.

You do not need E.U. membership to have either customs union (eg Turkey) or Single Market (eg Norway)

Both of which were also not on the 2016 referendum so it is not against ‘the will of the people’ to adopt these positions.

Doing this would also retain numerous trade agreements including new one with Singapore, upcoming with Australia and New Zealand.

This combination is often referred to as Norway+
 
Olddog
Topic Author
Posts: 808
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:41 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:55 am

While the march was nice, nothing will stop Brexit now. I very much doubt that the ECJ says that a leaving member can cancel its article 50...
 
UltimoTiger777
Posts: 443
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:19 pm

Re: Brexit part 4: Until the last Tory Standing

Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:08 pm

Richard28 wrote:

You do not need E.U. membership to have either customs union (eg Turkey) or Single Market (eg Norway)


Turkey isn't in THE Customs Union. It's in A customs union. There is no precedent for a major state not in the EU to be a member of THE Customs Union.

Richard28 wrote:

Both of which were also not on the 2016 referendum so it is not against ‘the will of the people’ to adopt these positions.


I'd be quite happy with the Norway option. In fact, most people probably would if it was explained to them.

Maybe something like this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DnuR7rOW0AAzld4.jpg
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 14

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos