jpetekyxmd80 wrote:

“Here we go again with, you know, you’re guilty until proven innocent. I don’t like that. We just went through that with Justice Kavanaugh and he was innocent all the way as far as I’m concerned.”


yes, really

Tiny sure has an issue with calling out people that pay him off.

Nothing is going to happen...some huff and puff and all will be forgiven/forgotten.

Saudis have done a lot worse...and we don’t even hear a peep about it. This most recent incident as well will go away.

flyingsikh wrote:

Nothing is going to happen...some huff and puff and all will be forgiven/forgotten.

Saudis have done a lot worse...and we don’t even hear a peep about it. This most recent incident as well will go away.

That's kind of why I'm a little annoyed with all the "how could they!" or the "SHOCKING!"

This isn't really anything new. They just got caught doing it. (allegedly... I don't trust Turkey's word on the matter that much either).

Problem is, we like the military relationship we have with them from an economic and strategic stand point. It's why Rand Paul will never be successful in stopping arms sales to the saudis, it's just too beneficial to so many other states.

In two weeks we will be on to the next crisis.

I want to pass on this sentence from a message to the comments section at the NYT.

" Now, we have leadership that defends despots like Putin and the Saudis while smiling when crowds cheer and yell about locking up Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi."

It sure puts things into perspective.

trpmb6 wrote:

flyingsikh wrote:

Nothing is going to happen...some huff and puff and all will be forgiven/forgotten.

Saudis have done a lot worse...and we don’t even hear a peep about it. This most recent incident as well will go away.

That's kind of why I'm a little annoyed with all the "how could they!" or the "SHOCKING!"

This isn't really anything new. They just got caught doing it. (allegedly... I don't trust Turkey's word on the matter that much either).

Problem is, we like the military relationship we have with them from an economic and strategic stand point. It's why Rand Paul will never be successful in stopping arms sales to the saudis, it's just too beneficial to so many other states.

In two weeks we will be on to the next crisis.

I think maybe Trump is playing a fool here (a person of normal intelligence would have to be joking, but with Trump, you never really know). There is nothing to gain by condemning Saudi Arabia. The truth is that the evidence condemns them. They understand everybody knows they did wrong. This murder makes them more infamous because this this is utterly routine in the Kingdom. But this one was sloppy and amateurish, and yes, on foreign soil, making the king and crown prince look like fools. THey did it to themselves. Trump doesn't need to add a thing. He's already won this. They got weakened, and he made a gesture that he is not going to hurt them, he is going to tolerate them. They will, in turn be grateful. What's the alternative, we agitate for regime change, they become yet another headache for us. We don't need that. This guy was not abducted from public; he went into Saudi custody more or less. He decided to gamble big and sometimes the snake eats you.

Flighty wrote:

This guy was not abducted from public; he went into Saudi custody more or less. He decided to gamble big and sometimes the snake eats you.

Wonderful new version of "she shouldn't have worn a short skirt and she wouldn't be raped".
The guy was murdered, and for one I hope Erdogan does the unthinkable: snatch the Saudi ambassador, by force if need be, and toss him in a jail cell until every single person in the Saudi government that had any knowledge is handed over, tried and convicted. No ine could complain.

Best regards
Thomas

Incredibly I agree with Nik and Trmp. The only real shocker here, and I do believe it, is that there's audio of the torture and the killing itself. Not sure how Apple's gonna spin that into an ad campaign but I might have to give that thing another look. Beyond that you have one actor that did the deed, another actor that caught them in the act (and yet has already tortured and/or imprisoned thousands of its own journalists..so why they give a crap is confusing), and lastly an actor that himself craves the power to torture and kill journalists.

It's all very nasty stuff but likely to be forgotten soon.

wingman wrote:

Beyond that you have one actor that did the deed, another actor that caught them in the act (and yet has already tortured and/or imprisoned thousands of its own journalists..so why they give a crap is confusing), and lastly an actor that himself craves the power to torture and kill journalists..

"Do as i say, not as i do" is the Mantra of all of them.... Trump is still calling people liars....

Best regards
Thomas

wingman wrote:

Incredibly I agree with Nik and Trmp. The only real shocker here, and I do believe it, is that there's audio of the torture and the killing itself. Not sure how Apple's gonna spin that into an ad campaign but I might have to give that thing another look. Beyond that you have one actor that did the deed, another actor that caught them in the act (and yet has already tortured and/or imprisoned thousands of its own journalists..so why they give a crap is confusing), and lastly an actor that himself craves the power to torture and kill journalists.

It's all very nasty stuff but likely to be forgotten soon.

It’s disturbing to a degree that words can’t fully express how far we have fallen in terms of what can be rationalized as “acceptable,” que sera sera, these days.

trpmb6 wrote:

Problem is, we like the military relationship we have with them from an economic and strategic stand point. It's why Rand Paul will never be successful in stopping arms sales to the saudis, it's just too beneficial to so many other states. .

Well of course. When you have defense contractors along with lobbyists being paid by Saudi Arabia making generous campaign contributions to members of congress it shouldn't be any surprise how these votes go. Just don't be so shocked if sometime in the future someone whose had their family wiped out by these weapons decides to take revenge.

jetero wrote:

It’s disturbing to a degree that words can’t fully express how far we have fallen in terms of what can be rationalized as “acceptable,” que sera sera, these days.

Ain't that the truth.

If I would have responded to the above the way I feel, I probably would have gotten a three day suspension. The times they are a changin. And not for the better.

LMP737 wrote:

trpmb6 wrote:

Problem is, we like the military relationship we have with them from an economic and strategic stand point. It's why Rand Paul will never be successful in stopping arms sales to the saudis, it's just too beneficial to so many other states. .

Well of course. When you have defense contractors along with lobbyists being paid by Saudi Arabia making generous campaign contributions to members of congress it shouldn't be any surprise how these votes go. Just don't be so shocked if sometime in the future someone whose had their family wiped out by these weapons decides to take revenge.

Trump and the GOP know that what they did to Obamacare will get US citizens killed. Why would they give a flying f*ck about a journalist being dismembered, aside of not having been invited to watch the carnage?
If the 1% lobbied to make the punishment for murder life in prison or pay 10 million, the GOP would make it legal and they would go hunting......

Best regards
Thomas

Both NYT and WaPo have come out for cutting ties with Mr. Bone Saw.

MBS and Trump: One’s an incompetent barbarian and one is an incompetent would-be barbarian.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/17/opin ... p.amp.html

Today Mike Pompeo outlined the state of this development from the US POV. He says the Saudi's are investigating and when they tell us the result of their investigation we will decide what to do.
Translated that means the Saudi's need time to come up with a suitable scapegoat and the Trump administration agrees that the best thing for now is to stall, let the people tire of this story, let it migrate to page two: stall stall stall. Let it fade. And there are people here who are happy to help Trump let it fade.

Any responsible rational citizen (and I know that lets many off the hook) is now obligated to take a look at what is known and to try to put it into perspective.

The Prince MbS had his security forces lure Jamal Khashoggi into the Saudi embassy in Turkey where they were laying in wait. When Khashoggi arrived they killed him and chopped him up into pieces small enough to be carried out of the embassy in hand luggage. If anyone here doesn't get it or doesn't agree with the above please take it somewhere else, I'm not going to argue with fools or manipulative hacks.

This heinous story comes under the backdrop of a couple of other unpleasant issues. One of these backdrop issues is the fact that we have a loose cannon of a president who is engaging in a campaign to discredit news media, using the full powers of the office of the president, which thankfully are quite limited in this regard. But he attacks the credibility of the news media on a daily basis and his slanderous accusations have traction among the less educated population of this country; those who constitute his base. Trump has done damage to the country with this attack on the people and institutions that provide the people knowledge of the workings of our government and the world. This attack has not come from any real concern that "the news media" is doing a poor job of relaying the news, he is after all the man who propagated the blatantly false story that Barrack Obama was born in Kenya. Trump is executing a cynical selfish and immoral populist tactic to isolate the public from reality. His actions mirror every fascist leader before him. His actions are transparent to anybody with an education. Unfortunately there are people who do have educations who follow and support him in this effort because they believe along the line: "the end justifies the means". There are also people who support him in his attacks on the American media because they want to destroy or diminish the United States. This does not pause Trump or his supporters, the days of actual allegiance to the nation are over for the Trump crowd, it's all about party or faction now.

How can anybody be passive about the butchering of an international journalist in such an environment?
It beggars belief that people who know better are doing exactly that. But the show isn't over, this story isn't half played out yet, it has a long way to go. There are a lot of people who don't want to see this story blow over.


So now on to some of the other unpleasant issues.
The United states has again bargained with the devil and is again in the process of starting another war another war, again in the ME. The conflicts in the western Pacific are on hold (China and N. Korea) because Trump accepts the reality that we cannot start three wars all at once. This time it is to be Iran's turn.

Iran was supposed to have been step two of the 2003 PNAC war with Iraq (that war should be called the PNAC war and maybe someday in the future it will be called that), but the US ground forces got so tied down in Iraq that they couldn't get to phase two.

Why Iran? Going to war with Iran in 2018/19 doesn't make any more sense that going to war with Iraq anfd Iran in 2003 did. Iran is not a supporter of terrorism despite the political judgement claiming that it is.

Iran is no threat to the US, its navy consists of PT boats and the offensive part of its air force consists mostly of old F-5s, F-4s and a few F-14s. The last time they invaded anyone was in 1739. We are told that most of their population admires the West including the US and that many, if not most Iranians want better relations with the US. They have land borders with eight different countries and they have good relations with all of them. They do not engage in any terrorist activities against the US, Europe or anywhere else for that matter, in fact they were of significant help in the battle against ISIS in Syria: they were on our side in that conflict. The rub for some but not all Americans is that they are in violent opposition to the policies and actions of Israel. So am I and so should you. Israel is the aggressor. Israel is the reason for most of the problems, most of the war in the region. Israel can bring peace anytime it wants to end it's expansion program.

Iran helped create and continue to have a close relationship with the Lebanese military organization Hezbollah. Hezbollah is a military organization with conventional and irregular facets. When Hezbollah took part In the war against ISIS in Syria, Hezbollah operated a conventional military presence, but its origins were as an irregular counter to the Israeli invasion force in Lebanon, and it still operates in that manner on Israel's northern border. Irregular forces are not terrorist by nature and neither Israel or Hezbollah has placed any bombs in Europe or the US.

Jamal Khashoggi was in the process of telling us about the Saudi war plans, the Saudi war in Yemen, the Saudi injustices and corruption when he was murdered.

Are you sure you're OK with that?

Maybe I'll add to this later. One thing I will say now is that Saudi Arabia is in no position to withhold its oil, regardless of what our actions are; that would very quickly bring Saudi Arabia and many of the Saud family to financial ruin and MbS would very soon be out of a job if that were even to pose a real threat.

Khashoggi's last column:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... f069404593

salttee wrote:

The Prince MbS had his security forces lure Jamal Khashoggi into the Saudi embassy in Turkey where they were laying in wait. When Khashoggi arrived they killed him and chopped him up into pieces small enough to be carried out of the embassy in hand luggage. If anyone here doesn't get it or doesn't agree with the above please take it somewhere else, I'm not going to argue with fools or manipulative hacks.

This is from Turkish government officials.

The same government officials who have jailed thousands of their own journalists and others under false crimes.

I go back to my previous statements. That turkey is suddenly outraged that a journalist was murdered is laughable (not exactly the word I'm looking for here given the situation). That people are outraged and shocked that the Saudis would do something like this is also laughable. I'm not saying this is something we should accept as the norm, as Jetero seems to suggest. To the contrary we should keep this elevated. But as another user has noted, the US really doesn't have to do anything here except play referee. There is nothing to gain by taking any other sort of role, and lots to lose. SA is already paying a price for their perceived actions, and Turkey is trying to use this situation to make them look the better. When honestly, you could have swapped the two and the story still be equally believable.

tommy1808 wrote:

Flighty wrote:

This guy was not abducted from public; he went into Saudi custody more or less. He decided to gamble big and sometimes the snake eats you.

Wonderful new version of "she shouldn't have worn a short skirt and she wouldn't be raped".
The guy was murdered, and for one I hope Erdogan does the unthinkable: snatch the Saudi ambassador, by force if need be, and toss him in a jail cell until every single person in the Saudi government that had any knowledge is handed over, tried and convicted. No ine could complain.

Best regards
Thomas

Yes, he was murdered, which is what you expect when you engage in extremely bothersome behavior against places like Russia, Turkey, China, Iran, Cuba, (possibly the USA?), etc. In Africa it is probably common, but we do not consider it newsworthy. When a state does it, usually we call it 'policy' and not murder, but it is the same thing. Can Turkey do a thing about this? My guess? Nope. Even if the murder is proven. They can arrest these guys if they ever return to Turkey. Oh, but wait. They have diplomatic immunity.

It is hard to run a fair murder trial in the USA. Can we really expect Turkey or Saudi Arabia to adjudicate this our ideal way? What does it have to do with us, anyhow? Maybe our cultural view is irrelevant. Maybe the Saudi view is much more relevant, and we are mistaken.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... me-cartoon

This cartoonist has a great line in modifying well known artworks for his satirical targets, in this instance it reminds of that Trump's Son In Law also has a stake in kissing Saudi butt too.

Early stories suggested he set his Apple Watch to record at some point, maybe before entering the building. But certainly Turkey must have the placed bugged or covered by extensive mics from outside. Who knows what the truth is here.

No one is innocent in crimes like these but the Saudis definitely exhibited some real stupidity here. Who needs 15 guys to kill a guy like this? Send a single guy deep undercover, shoot him from a moped and at best there would've been a 24 hour story on page 6. I honestly don't see the point of this from their POV, it will only make the next journo murder that much more difficult for them.

wingman wrote:

Who knows what the truth is here.

The Saudi's have acknowledged that he was killed in their embassy. That means that you and trpmb6 are left denying it all on your own.

How about if we move on and discuss things of substance?

I mean the truth of how the audio was captured. That is one astonishing aspect to this story. I agree with you that the murder happened, the Saudis did it, and that it's a horrible thing. But sorry to say I agree with the other two that not much if anything will ever be done about it. The United States excels at extrajudicial killings, we just tend to cover our tracks better than these incompetent princelings. And to me the only shocking thing in this whole story is the Saudi incompetence. If you're shocked that a murder like this took place then you might as well stay in doors, turn off all the lights and hug your teddy bear. And you can't be shocked at what a scumbag Trump is, that has already been established as scientific fact.

salttee wrote:

wingman wrote:

Who knows what the truth is here.

The Saudi's have acknowledged that he was killed in their embassy. That means that you and trpmb6 are left denying it all on your own.

How about if we move on and discuss things of substance?

I never said anything about denying he was killed.

I said we should be cautionary in stating anonymous turkish government official statements as explicit facts.

Who cares how the audio was captured, intelligence agencies don't reveal their sources and methods for everyone to see. Quibbling about these banal details is helping Trump sweep it under the rug. Trying to make this story just one of many is also assisting Trump. This is a unique event at a critical time in history. Real change can be accomplished as a result of Khashoggi's death.

The real issues, the ones the Trumpsters want to avoid, are what the US - Israeli - Saudi triumvirate is up to and how unethical (for lack of a better word) they and their policies are. This is the moment when the emperor is seen to have no clothes on. Now is not the time to discuss how poorly dressed other emperors have been.

Sorry man, Trump sweeps Erdogan, Putin, racism, pussy-grabbing, bestiality and imprisoning young children in tent cities on the border under the table. This story just doesn't add much to my own personal disgust with our President. I'll give it a 3 on the rage-meter and only then because he just can't stop himself from opening his pie hole and saying yet more stupid shit. But the murder itself? To me it pales in comparison to what Erdogan is doing to his own people on a massive, massive scale. But the man is smart enough to have Trump eating right out of his hand to deflect attention away from his own atrocities.

Look, I get that there is a general desire to pin things on Trump.. But Trump isn't sweeping this under the rug.. Mnuncian (sp) has pulled out of the conference. Pompeo has been dispatched and is involved. It's not like Trump ordered a hit on this guy because he worked for the wash post.

Salttee claims this is a unique event.. it's not. I mean, I guess someone being killed in an embassy/consulate could be (I'm not going to make Jetero or Seb mad here and pull the benghazi card since the two events are wholly different) unique. But both Saudi and Turkey (more recently) have a history of this kind of crap.

Yes we can and should effect change. But somehow trying to link Trump into this just isn't the right play by the Dems. He is responding to this appropriately. And honestly, nothing is really going to please the left in any regard to Trump anyways, no matter what he does.

I get it. It's all about you and your personal disgusts with our President. And your personal disgust with Erdogan. I should have known. This has nothing to do with past present or coming wars that the US has, is and will be sponsoring. Pussy grabbing, that's the meme. Just stick with that.

Have a nice day.

trpmb6 wrote:

Look, I get that there is a general desire to pin things on Trump.. But Trump isn't sweeping this under the rug.. Mnuncian (sp) has pulled out of the conference. Pompeo has been dispatched and is involved. It's not like Trump ordered a hit on this guy because he worked for the wash post.

Salttee claims this is a unique event.. it's not. I mean, I guess someone being killed in an embassy/consulate could be (I'm not going to make Jetero or Seb mad here and pull the benghazi card since the two events are wholly different) unique. But both Saudi and Turkey (more recently) have a history of this kind of crap.

Yes we can and should effect change. But somehow trying to link Trump into this just isn't the right play by the Dems. He is responding to this appropriately. And honestly, nothing is really going to please the left in any regard to Trump anyways, no matter what he does.

What you are saying is that Trump is not a leader. He is tiptoeing around trying to give cover to Saudi Arabia. If he was a leader and a true believer in MAGA, he would take those lessons of exceptionalism and ram it down the throats of the Saudi's and make it known they will be led into the first world, hand over foot, lest all these weapons ,materials, and training we sell to Saudi become the weapons and training that leads to the next round of terrorists. However not being a leader, but a business man, he is trying to tiptoe and save immediate money, no matter what the long term loss is.

casinterest wrote:

trpmb6 wrote:

Look, I get that there is a general desire to pin things on Trump.. But Trump isn't sweeping this under the rug.. Mnuncian (sp) has pulled out of the conference. Pompeo has been dispatched and is involved. It's not like Trump ordered a hit on this guy because he worked for the wash post.

Salttee claims this is a unique event.. it's not. I mean, I guess someone being killed in an embassy/consulate could be (I'm not going to make Jetero or Seb mad here and pull the benghazi card since the two events are wholly different) unique. But both Saudi and Turkey (more recently) have a history of this kind of crap.

Yes we can and should effect change. But somehow trying to link Trump into this just isn't the right play by the Dems. He is responding to this appropriately. And honestly, nothing is really going to please the left in any regard to Trump anyways, no matter what he does.

What you are saying is that Trump is not a leader. He is tiptoeing around trying to give cover to Saudi Arabia. If he was a leader and a true believer in MAGA, he would take those lessons of exceptionalism and ram it down the throats of the Saudi's and make it known they will be led into the first world, hand over foot, lest all these weapons ,materials, and training we sell to Saudi become the weapons and training that leads to the next round of terrorists. However not being a leader, but a business man, he is trying to tiptoe and save immediate money, no matter what the long term loss is.

Exactly. This is kind of a great opportunity for him to show that he's going to 'drain the swamp'. I mean, by any definition 'the swamp' represents special interests and foreign interests in DC that cause the government to do what's in the best interests for them and not for the American people. I understood that to be Trump's take on it initially, although now it seems like he views 'the swamp' as anyone with a (D) next to their name on C-SPAN.

But by taking the side of the Saudi's and pussyfooting around the issue, he's doing exactly what 'the swamp' would want him to do, right? Where is this strong leadership he ran on? Where is his protection of American values? (and yes, freedom of the press is an American value, despite his views on the press).

This is why it all comes back to Trump. I don't think anyone is blaming Trump for the murder, but it's put up or shut up time. Is he going to be a strong American leader or is he going to capitulate to human rights violators and murderers because of money.

casinterest wrote:

trpmb6 wrote:

Look, I get that there is a general desire to pin things on Trump.. But Trump isn't sweeping this under the rug.. Mnuncian (sp) has pulled out of the conference. Pompeo has been dispatched and is involved. It's not like Trump ordered a hit on this guy because he worked for the wash post.

Salttee claims this is a unique event.. it's not. I mean, I guess someone being killed in an embassy/consulate could be (I'm not going to make Jetero or Seb mad here and pull the benghazi card since the two events are wholly different) unique. But both Saudi and Turkey (more recently) have a history of this kind of crap.

Yes we can and should effect change. But somehow trying to link Trump into this just isn't the right play by the Dems. He is responding to this appropriately. And honestly, nothing is really going to please the left in any regard to Trump anyways, no matter what he does.

What you are saying is that Trump is not a leader. He is tiptoeing around trying to give cover to Saudi Arabia. If he was a leader and a true believer in MAGA, he would take those lessons of exceptionalism and ram it down the throats of the Saudi's and make it known they will be led into the first world, hand over foot, lest all these weapons ,materials, and training we sell to Saudi become the weapons and training that leads to the next round of terrorists. However not being a leader, but a business man, he is trying to tiptoe and save immediate money, no matter what the long term loss is.

And if he did this you guys would say Trump is trying to destabilize the region.

trpmb6 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

trpmb6 wrote:

Look, I get that there is a general desire to pin things on Trump.. But Trump isn't sweeping this under the rug.. Mnuncian (sp) has pulled out of the conference. Pompeo has been dispatched and is involved. It's not like Trump ordered a hit on this guy because he worked for the wash post.

Salttee claims this is a unique event.. it's not. I mean, I guess someone being killed in an embassy/consulate could be (I'm not going to make Jetero or Seb mad here and pull the benghazi card since the two events are wholly different) unique. But both Saudi and Turkey (more recently) have a history of this kind of crap.

Yes we can and should effect change. But somehow trying to link Trump into this just isn't the right play by the Dems. He is responding to this appropriately. And honestly, nothing is really going to please the left in any regard to Trump anyways, no matter what he does.

What you are saying is that Trump is not a leader. He is tiptoeing around trying to give cover to Saudi Arabia. If he was a leader and a true believer in MAGA, he would take those lessons of exceptionalism and ram it down the throats of the Saudi's and make it known they will be led into the first world, hand over foot, lest all these weapons ,materials, and training we sell to Saudi become the weapons and training that leads to the next round of terrorists. However not being a leader, but a business man, he is trying to tiptoe and save immediate money, no matter what the long term loss is.

And if he did this you guys would say Trump is trying to destabilize the region.

Nope, we would believe that he was finally putting his foot down against the swamp. But no, this bag of shit we call a president is more concerned with saving face to the Saudi's while threatening Mexico with shutting down the border over tired, hungry , and poor refugees heading for the border from other countries.

casinterest wrote:

trpmb6 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

What you are saying is that Trump is not a leader. He is tiptoeing around trying to give cover to Saudi Arabia. If he was a leader and a true believer in MAGA, he would take those lessons of exceptionalism and ram it down the throats of the Saudi's and make it known they will be led into the first world, hand over foot, lest all these weapons ,materials, and training we sell to Saudi become the weapons and training that leads to the next round of terrorists. However not being a leader, but a business man, he is trying to tiptoe and save immediate money, no matter what the long term loss is.

And if he did this you guys would say Trump is trying to destabilize the region.

Nope, we would believe that he was finally putting his foot down against the swamp. But no, this bag of shit we call a president is more concerned with saving face to the Saudi's while threatening Mexico with shutting down the border over tired, hungry , and poor refugees heading for the border from other countries.

Agreed. On the Saudi situation, I think the country that murders the journalist trying to get a wedding license would be considered the ‘destabilizing’ force.

trpmb6 wrote:

I'm not going to make Jetero or Seb mad here and pull the benghazi card since the two events are wholly different

Ok, I'm curious.
I don't normally wish to get involved on food fights with the deplorables here, but exactly how would you "pull the benghazi card"?

Or is this just a case of your throwing out meaningless innuendos?

trpmb6 wrote:

I go back to my previous statements. That turkey is suddenly outraged that a journalist was murdered is laughable (not exactly the word I'm looking for here given the situation). That people are outraged and shocked that the Saudis would do something like this is also laughable.

There we go with that "anything goes" right-wing cynicism. "Can't make an omelette without breaking eggs, so I might as well set fire to the entire chicken coop."

trpmb6 wrote:

I'm not saying this is something we should accept as the norm, as Jetero seems to suggest.

Well tell us what you are "saying." I'm confused.

trpmb6 wrote:

To the contrary we should keep this elevated.

Now there's a great word.

trpmb6 wrote:

But as another user has noted, the US really doesn't have to do anything here except play referee. There is nothing to gain by taking any other sort of role, and lots to lose.

Too bad the Idiot-in-Chief at 1600 Penna already opened his damned mouth. Again. And again. And again.

jpetekyxmd80 wrote:

“Here we go again with, you know, you’re guilty until proven innocent. I don’t like that. We just went through that with Justice Kavanaugh and he was innocent all the way as far as I’m concerned.”


yes, really

Nah, with Kavanaugh and the majority party it was he's innocent and we aren't going to even consider that he's not

Flighty wrote:

Oh, but wait. They have diplomatic immunity.

They are not supposed to murder people in their embassys either, so as quit pro quo they can just ignore diplomatic immunity, and if they think 3 Saudi "diplomats" where present at the "interrogation", it would be fairly easy for turkey to make three Saudi diplomats disappear. Doesn't have to be in Turkey either, a street robbery gone wrong is arranged quite quickly as well.
I am very much in favor of following diplomatic protocol, but not any more than they do. For the probably only time in my life: happy hunting Mr. Erdogan!

Best regards
Thomas

Here's a picture of the chopper upper guy: Salah Muhammed A Tubaigy.


The BBC has an unusual article with photos of most of the assassination crew. The information looks to me to have come from British intelligence, as I don't believe that the BBC would be able to come up with all this information, including pictures, all by themselves. I think the whole crew should be banned from entry into all civilized nations permanently. They can leave Mr. Albostani off the banned list though, the Saudi's have already eliminated him.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-45906396

salttee wrote:

I think the whole crew should be banned from entry into all civilized nations permanently. They can leave Mr. Albostani off the banned list though, the Saudi's have already eliminated him.

Without a body and DNA Tests I would not believe that.
They should stop issuing visa to all Saudi government officials until the whole crew is handed over dead or alive.

Best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

salttee wrote:

I think the whole crew should be banned from entry into all civilized nations permanently. They can leave Mr. Albostani off the banned list though, the Saudi's have already eliminated him.

Without a body and DNA Tests I would not believe that.
They should stop issuing visa to all Saudi government officials until the whole crew is handed over dead or alive.

Best regards
Thomas

Believe what? That Albostani is dead? While it is not confirmed, and so far is nothing more than a rumor, I don't see any reason to doubt it. Albostani was the lowest ranking guy of the bunch, he was an air force lieutenant. He probably ran off his mouth. You'll never get your hands on any of his DNA, the Saudis will have him buried by now. They do that fast over there.

Asking to stop all Saudi government officials from travel is asking too much. That just isn't done.

salttee wrote:

Asking to stop all Saudi government officials from travel is asking too much. That just isn't done.

It isn't done, but would be the right move. That or grabbing one of them. The best way to make sure that foreign governments keep their hands of your citizens is to retaliate against a government officials and make that you official or semiofficial policy "we will get justice for our citizens with or without your help". That would stop the nonsense quite quick.

Best regards
Thomas

salttee wrote:

Asking to stop all Saudi government officials from travel is asking too much. That just isn't done.

It isn't done, but would be the right move. That or grabbing one of them. The best way to make sure that foreign governments keep their hands of your citizens is to retaliate against a government officials and make that you official or semiofficial policy "we will get justice for our citizens with or without your help". That would stop the nonsense quite quick.

Best regards
Thomas

salttee wrote:

Asking to stop all Saudi government officials from travel is asking too much. That just isn't done.

It isn't done, but would be the right move. That or grabbing one of them. The best way to make sure that foreign governments keep their hands of your citizens is to retaliate against a government officials and make that you official or semiofficial policy "we will get justice for our citizens with or without your help". That would stop the nonsense quite quick.

Best regards
Thomas

I'd like to see the same barrage of sanctions applied to Iran to be applied to the Saudis and Qatar too (and while at it Russia as well), and then some.
At least stop all arms deals immediately and cancel all contracts made so far.
Like our former arms dealer in chief Gabriel claiming the Leopard 2 tanks sold to the Saudis were "purely defensive weapons", jeez.. Soon after we saw those defensive weapons "defending" Bahrain.

There are some Conservatives that are quietly starting a smear campaign Khashoggi to protect Trump from his handling of the situation.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... spartandhp

In the same article it mentions that Trump was at a rally in Montana and said “Any guy that can do a body slam, he’s my kind of — he’s my guy,” He was referring to Rep. Greg Gianforte who assaulted a reporter. Then everyone wonders why he will not do anything to Saudi Arabia over this.

dragon-wings wrote:

There are some Conservatives that are quietly starting a smear campaign Khashoggi to protect Trump from his handling of the situation.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... spartandhp

In the same article it mentions that Trump was at a rally in Montana and said “Any guy that can do a body slam, he’s my kind of — he’s my guy,” He was referring to Rep. Greg Gianforte who assaulted a reporter. Then everyone wonders why he will not do anything to Saudi Arabia over this.

Remember Trump said the following at Rally. I am pretty sure he was referring to reporters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTACH1eVIaA

salttee wrote:

The BBC has an unusual article with photos of most of the assassination crew. The information looks to me to have come from British intelligence

Now we have this:
Evidence suggests crown prince ordered Khashoggi killing, says ex-MI6 chief
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... ohn-sawers

Three cheers for the British Intel community.

I normally wouldn't link to zerohedge but this was sent to me by one of my friends. I usually ignore zerohedge articles since they're usually conspiratorial in nature.. but this one seems to be sourced from a french news organization so I'll share here.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10- ... ent-report

Sounds like there is pressure building to move MbS out of the line of succession and elevate his younger brother Prince Khalid (current Ambassador to the US) who is more aligned with western values than his brother is. He's also fairly popular internationally (probably due to his westernized leanings).

trpmb6 wrote:

I normally wouldn't link to zerohedge but this was sent to me by one of my friends. I usually ignore zerohedge articles since they're usually conspiratorial in nature.. but this one seems to be sourced from a french news organization so I'll share here.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10- ... ent-report

Sounds like there is pressure building to move MbS out of the line of succession and elevate his younger brother Prince Khalid (current Ambassador to the US) who is more aligned with western values than his brother is. He's also fairly popular internationally (probably due to his westernized leanings).

The problem is that the Saudi Royals are trying to project an image. I don't think the underlying policy that allowed us to get where we currently are has changed at all.

casinterest wrote:

trpmb6 wrote:

I normally wouldn't link to zerohedge but this was sent to me by one of my friends. I usually ignore zerohedge articles since they're usually conspiratorial in nature.. but this one seems to be sourced from a french news organization so I'll share here.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10- ... ent-report

Sounds like there is pressure building to move MbS out of the line of succession and elevate his younger brother Prince Khalid (current Ambassador to the US) who is more aligned with western values than his brother is. He's also fairly popular internationally (probably due to his westernized leanings).

The problem is that the Saudi Royals are trying to project an image. I don't think the underlying policy that allowed us to get where we currently are has changed at all.

I'm not really familiar with how they handle succession. Until today I wasn't even aware that they had this ascension committee of sorts that chooses the heir. I presume that means that they may have some power (albeit a small amount) to effect change in policies.

Of course that assumes that they disapprove of what actually happened and are not just doing this to make them look good in damage control. I don't know enough about these other "clans" that make up the committee. Worth looking more into to see if the other "clans" may use the opportunity to grab power themselves, if that is even possible (again I don't really know enough on the subject).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-45923217

"Journalist Jamal Khashoggi was killed in a fight in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, the country's state TV reported quoting an initial probe.

It said deputy intelligence chief Ahmad al-Assiri and Saud al-Qahtani, senior aide to Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman, were dismissed over the affair."
The investigations are still under way, it said, and 18 Saudi nationals have been arrested.

So now the Crown Prince says, "You know what guys, we did do it, just that I did not know. I'll hang these guys out to dry and we can go back to being best buddies again, okay Donald?

readytotaxi wrote:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-45923217

"Journalist Jamal Khashoggi was killed in a fight in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, the country's state TV reported quoting an initial probe.

It said deputy intelligence chief Ahmad al-Assiri and Saud al-Qahtani, senior aide to Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman, were dismissed over the affair."
The investigations are still under way, it said, and 18 Saudi nationals have been arrested.

So now the Crown Prince says, "You know what guys, we did do it, just that I did not know. I'll hang these guys out to dry and we can go back to being best buddies again, okay Donald?

Weird. If we believe Saudis, and we should, then a dead man walked out from the consulate.