http://www.providencejournal.com/news/2 ... -charities


Another tax dodge for the wealthy. There is no end to this in this country, everything favoring the wealthy. 85 billion stashed so far since 2010. Fidelity expects another billion this year.

WarRI1 wrote:

http://www.providencejournal.com/news/20181007/rich-are-stockpiling-wealth-in-black-box-charities


Another tax dodge for the wealthy. There is no end to this in this country, everything favoring the wealthy. 85 billion stashed so far since 2010. Fidelity expects another billion this year.

Intelligent comprehension is key to reading. $85 billion is the amount on its way to charity, not "stashed" for their later use. Nor does it in any way equate to $85 billion in tax savings. Don't let the big numbers confuse you.

mham001 wrote:

WarRI1 wrote:

http://www.providencejournal.com/news/20181007/rich-are-stockpiling-wealth-in-black-box-charities


Another tax dodge for the wealthy. There is no end to this in this country, everything favoring the wealthy. 85 billion stashed so far since 2010. Fidelity expects another billion this year.

Intelligent comprehension is key to reading. $85 million is the amount on its way to charity, not "stashed" for their later use. Nor does not in any way equate to $85 million in tax savings. Don't let the big numbers confuse you.

Trust me they do not. I guess it is all fake news, but it was credible enough to make the MSM, of course Fox would see it differently. Did you ever answer the question about Fox News being part of the MSM ? MSM means Main Stream Media in case you are unaware of that fact. I may have misunderstood, but I swear the article mentioned tax breaks for the donate-rs of these funds.

What the hell does this have to do with Fox News? Are you hearing voices again?

mham001 wrote:

What the hell does this have to do with Fox News? Are you hearing voices again?

I am trying to find out if Fox News is MSM, I just thought I would ask someone such as you O wise one while I had your attention, nobody else has been able or unwilling to touch that question. What say you? Do you block your indicator on here also?? We never know when you blockers are watching and waiting to pounce on the unwary. Kind of creepy. By the way, the only voice I hear is my wife's.

WarRI1 wrote:

Another tax dodge for the wealthy. .

criminal tax fraud has a 3 year statue of limitation, right? That tells you all you need to know about how serious a country is about getting people to pay their fair share.

best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

WarRI1 wrote:

Another tax dodge for the wealthy. .

criminal tax fraud has a 3 year statue of limitation, right? That tells you all you need to know about how serious a country is about getting people to pay their fair share.

best regards
Thomas

It does seem a little skewed does it not ? When you earn a wage, they get every dime, even after retirement, but what the hell the mansions and yachts are expensive to first buy and maintain. They are special I guess. We do not have them, so we do not need the extra coin.

You are one envious dude. What concern of it is yours what others do with their money? How about you try on none.

DL717 wrote:

You are one envious dude. What concern of it is yours what others do with their money? How about you try on none.

Want me to draw a picture? Envy my ass.


Not everyone thinks that’s good news. Critics say the approach may slow the flow of money directly into nonprofits that serve the needy on a daily basis. Moreover, it injects charitable affiliates created by for-profit financial players such as Fidelity Investments and Charles Schwab deep into the big business of philanthropy — a boon for them and their clients, but, some worry, not so clear a win for the causes.

mham001 wrote:

WarRI1 wrote:

http://www.providencejournal.com/news/20181007/rich-are-stockpiling-wealth-in-black-box-charities


Another tax dodge for the wealthy. There is no end to this in this country, everything favoring the wealthy. 85 billion stashed so far since 2010. Fidelity expects another billion this year.

Intelligent comprehension is key to reading. $85 billion is the amount on its way to charity, not "stashed" for their later use. Nor does it in any way equate to $85 billion in tax savings. Don't let the big numbers confuse you.

A non-profit is just that. They can not show any profit at the end of the year. It is easy to set up a 501(c)3, avoid taxes, and get money back. All donations can be written off, too. Another boon to the wealthy.

You are also ignoring the fact that TRICKLE DOWN DOES NOT WORK!!!! Giving tax cuts to the rich simply encourages the rich to get more. Not hire at a decent wage or invest in America but horde money. That is the important FACT that the right ignores.

tommy1808 wrote:

WarRI1 wrote:

Another tax dodge for the wealthy. .

criminal tax fraud has a 3 year statue of limitation, right? That tells you all you need to know about how serious a country is about getting people to pay their fair share.

best regards
Thomas

There is no statute of limitations civilly, so they can indeed still collect those taxes. But you keep on hatin'.

The IRS has huge powers with a history of predatory, vengeful behavior and they need to be watched and controlled. Allowing a huge bureaucracy to put anybody and everybody in jail who checked the wrong box 10 years ago is not what most people want here. Would you?

mham001 wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

WarRI1 wrote:

Another tax dodge for the wealthy. .

criminal tax fraud has a 3 year statue of limitation, right? That tells you all you need to know about how serious a country is about getting people to pay their fair share.

best regards
Thomas

There is no statute of limitations civilly, so they can indeed still collect those taxes. But you keep on hatin'.

The IRS has huge powers with a history of predatory, vengeful behavior and they need to be watched and controlled. Allowing a huge bureaucracy to put anybody and everybody in jail who checked the wrong box 10 years ago is not what most people want here. Would you?

So much misinformation it is hard to know where to begin.

The budget and workforce of the IRS has gone down

https://www.irs.gov/statistics/irs-budget-and-workforce

But, typical rightie, wants more and bigger government "...they need to be watched and controlled."

IRS typically fine those who "checked the wrong box 10 years ago."

Tell us what "most people want here" since you seem to know so much.

mham001 wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

WarRI1 wrote:

Another tax dodge for the wealthy. .

criminal tax fraud has a 3 year statue of limitation, right? That tells you all you need to know about how serious a country is about getting people to pay their fair share.

best regards
Thomas

There is no statute of limitations civilly, so they can indeed still collect those taxes. But you keep on hatin'.

Nope. I was quite deliberately talking about criminal tax fraud.

Allowing a huge bureaucracy to put anybody and everybody in jail who checked the wrong box 10 years ago is not what most people want here. Would you?

For a wrongly checked box or a minor, honest mistake I wouldn't want people to go to jail in the first three years either, do you?

But if someone evaded taxes on purpose i see no reason to have a statute of limitation at all. You dont accidently set up a shell company and forget foreign bank accounts you have significant money sitting in....
And I think people getting cought should lose all their money. After all, no one else gets to keep the tools they committed their crime with, why does this special kind of thief get to keep their wealth minus repayment and a fine?

Best regards
Thomas

DL717 wrote:

You are one envious dude. What concern of it is yours what others do with their money? How about you try on none.

A lot of these people, let’s say Gates or Zuckerberg or Bezos, made their money the same was Rockefeller did, by running a monopoly in a new industry. Yes they made their fortunes - roughly 10 billion each. Then they made 60-140 billion each in criminal stealing from society.

Then they have the gall to say they are “helping the world” by dodging all - yes all - taxes on it by creating black box charities. It has annoyed me for years that people I know earn 100-200-400k doing “nonprofit work” or “public service” as if that is better than working for a business that takes care of customers. If you’re a $200k earning professor you get a cheaper NYT subscription because you are an “educator.” Educators are frequently well paid. So are non profit healthcare workers or executive attorneys at nonprofits.

To me, nonprofit or government designation main characteristic is you avoid having your revenue go to taxes (a high profit business recently had to pay 45% or so of profit to federal and state tax). Instead, taxes frequently pay you if you are a charity.

The NFL and NCAA are nonprofits, right? Anyhow about black box charities. This is a creature of US tax law. Plenty of people bust their ass for society working as a business. Plenty of people live luxurious lives in the big charity world. Do you think people at the Gates Foundation have as tough a life as my plumber does, or a farmer? Affluent black box charity people are on easy street, and get to use TIAA-Cref for their retirement. Rant complete.

tommy1808 wrote:

mham001 wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

criminal tax fraud has a 3 year statue of limitation, right? That tells you all you need to know about how serious a country is about getting people to pay their fair share.

best regards
Thomas

There is no statute of limitations civilly, so they can indeed still collect those taxes. But you keep on hatin'.

Nope. I was quite deliberately talking about criminal tax fraud.

Yes, you were. You also tried to use that half-truth as a sign of an unwillingness to collect taxes, which is diabolically incorrect. I know this first hand, the IRS and I have an ongoing conversation about 2006.

Beyond that, I am not arguing US tax collection with a German who's never paid any taxes in country.

I’m anything but rich, but like others I know in similar financial assets, have donor-advised funds. It’s a tax-deductible charitable donation that then grows tax-free. The fund can only be donated to qualified charities like NPR or PBS. It’s also set up in my estate plan. This isn’t some huge tax dodge; it’s entirely legal.

GF

mham001 wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

WarRI1 wrote:

Another tax dodge for the wealthy. .

criminal tax fraud has a 3 year statue of limitation, right? That tells you all you need to know about how serious a country is about getting people to pay their fair share.

best regards
Thomas

There is no statute of limitations civilly, so they can indeed still collect those taxes. But you keep on hatin'.

The IRS has huge powers with a history of predatory, vengeful behavior and they need to be watched and controlled. Allowing a huge bureaucracy to put anybody and everybody in jail who checked the wrong box 10 years ago is not what most people want here. Would you?

There you go again, exaggeration after exaggeration, I do not hate anyone, I detest wealthy people who screw us over, use the system created by Democrats and Republicans. I will pat myself on the back for this simple reason, I and others know when we are being screwed by the system, I pity those who do not, unless they are part of that system, and I doubt anyone on here is. Simple as that.

Care to describe exactly how or where you were screwed by a wealthy person? Exactly where they took moment from you? Are you screwed by leftie George Soros or rightie Koch brothers?

Also, I’d bet you could set up a $10,000 DAF and give back to your community using a tax deduction supported by nearly everyone.

GF

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Care to describe exactly how or where you were screwed by a wealthy person? Exactly where they took moment from you? Are you screwed by leftie George Soros or rightie Koch brothers?

Also, I’d bet you could set up a $10,000 DAF and give back to your community using a tax deduction supported by nearly everyone.

GF

The average American worker can not open and off shore bank account (no time and no money) to dodge taxes. The average American can not write off all expenses. The average American can not set up a non-profit because where would the income come from?

If the rich want to buy yachts and fast cars and big houses, fine. They write the tax code so they can do that. Not so we can do that.

Also, consider that many of the 1% started off rich. Granted, there are some, like Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffett, Joel Osteen, who started with nothing. But, the current occupant of the White House, Koch Bros., Walton family, started with millions.

Lastly, your solution to getting rich is to follow the current American health care system and crowdfund? How long would that last?

seb146 wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Care to describe exactly how or where you were screwed by a wealthy person? Exactly where they took moment from you? Are you screwed by leftie George Soros or rightie Koch brothers?

Also, I’d bet you could set up a $10,000 DAF and give back to your community using a tax deduction supported by nearly everyone.

GF

The average American worker can not open and off shore bank account (no time and no money) to dodge taxes. The average American can not write off all expenses. The average American can not set up a non-profit because where would the income come from?

If the rich want to buy yachts and fast cars and big houses, fine. They write the tax code so they can do that. Not so we can do that.

Also, consider that many of the 1% started off rich. Granted, there are some, like Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffett, Joel Osteen, who started with nothing. But, the current occupant of the White House, Koch Bros., Walton family, started with millions.

Lastly, your solution to getting rich is to follow the current American health care system and crowdfund? How long would that last?

Exactly and the same goes for the average American business owner or corporation owner. This is one reason why low, simple taxes are a good idea. Make it fair between regular people, small business and big business, who can afford lawyers, open foreign subsidiaries etc.

Gates didn't start with nothing by the way. He was a rich boy who had every advantage. He did make his own money. Sometimes rich boys are smart and some are even good people. I think Bill is not a bad guy at all. He leans on "charity" today but he was much more compelling as a businessman. He built a truly great company.

Anyway let me add something else. You know those "free lunches" they serve to affluent workers at Facebook, Google and so on? It's really great, right? Right. It avoids having to pay a worker money, which is then taxed at 30% or so. Then think of the sales taxes on the lunch at a restaurant. Wages for the workers. We don't need the restaurant near the corporate office at all! Close it! Forget about the tax revenue too.

I'm just pointing out these "great companies" and "big charities" are self serving, and we absolutely should not praise them as "generous!" for faux charity behavior. Plenty of charity is based on greed, just as plenty of corporate activity leads to humanitarian triumphs... it needs to be looked at case by case IMO.

seb146 wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Care to describe exactly how or where you were screwed by a wealthy person? Exactly where they took moment from you? Are you screwed by leftie George Soros or rightie Koch brothers?

Also, I’d bet you could set up a $10,000 DAF and give back to your community using a tax deduction supported by nearly everyone.

GF

The average American worker can not open and off shore bank account (no time and no money) to dodge taxes. The average American can not write off all expenses. The average American can not set up a non-profit because where would the income come from?

If the rich want to buy yachts and fast cars and big houses, fine. They write the tax code so they can do that. Not so we can do that.

Also, consider that many of the 1% started off rich. Granted, there are some, like Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffett, Joel Osteen, who started with nothing. But, the current occupant of the White House, Koch Bros., Walton family, started with millions.

Lastly, your solution to getting rich is to follow the current American health care system and crowdfund? How long would that last?

The OP is about donor-advised funds providing charitable donations, where did offshore banking come in? Or healthcare or non-profits? It’s about a funding mechanism that allows individuals and families to make a charitable donation to a fund, which can grow to make charitable DONATIONS.

GF

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

seb146 wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Care to describe exactly how or where you were screwed by a wealthy person? Exactly where they took moment from you? Are you screwed by leftie George Soros or rightie Koch brothers?

Also, I’d bet you could set up a $10,000 DAF and give back to your community using a tax deduction supported by nearly everyone.

GF

The average American worker can not open and off shore bank account (no time and no money) to dodge taxes. The average American can not write off all expenses. The average American can not set up a non-profit because where would the income come from?

If the rich want to buy yachts and fast cars and big houses, fine. They write the tax code so they can do that. Not so we can do that.

Also, consider that many of the 1% started off rich. Granted, there are some, like Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Warren Buffett, Joel Osteen, who started with nothing. But, the current occupant of the White House, Koch Bros., Walton family, started with millions.

Lastly, your solution to getting rich is to follow the current American health care system and crowdfund? How long would that last?

The OP is about donor-advised funds providing charitable donations, where did offshore banking come in? Or healthcare or non-profits? It’s about a funding mechanism that allows individuals and families to make a charitable donation to a fund, which can grow to make charitable DONATIONS.

GF

Non profits are just that. They can not show profits. So, if their expenses are $25,000 and their "income" (donations) are $100,000 something needs to be done with that extra $75,000. And you can be damn sure it is not going back to the people who donated!

Those with a net worth over 5 million dollars need to be taxed at a rate of 90% on all income and investment dividends. That money belongs to society not some bank.

Legalized theft, then? I’d bet you don’t approve of a net worth of $10,000 being taxed at 90%.



Gf

tommy1808 wrote:

WarRI1 wrote:

Another tax dodge for the wealthy. .

criminal tax fraud has a 3 year statue of limitation, right? That tells you all you need to know about how serious a country is about getting people to pay their fair share.

best regards
Thomas

Define fair share. I get a chunk of what you have or you get a chunk of what I have?

MassAppeal wrote:

Those with a net worth over 5 million dollars need to be taxed at a rate of 90% on all income and investment dividends. That money belongs to society not some bank.

WTF? That money does not belong to society. It belongs to me. I earned it, not you. You want money, get out and earn it.

Flighty wrote:

DL717 wrote:

You are one envious dude. What concern of it is yours what others do with their money? How about you try on none.

A lot of these people, let’s say Gates or Zuckerberg or Bezos, made their money the same was Rockefeller did, by running a monopoly in a new industry. Yes they made their fortunes - roughly 10 billion each. Then they made 60-140 billion each in criminal stealing from society.

Then they have the gall to say they are “helping the world” by dodging all - yes all - taxes on it by creating black box charities. It has annoyed me for years that people I know earn 100-200-400k doing “nonprofit work” or “public service” as if that is better than working for a business that takes care of customers. If you’re a $200k earning professor you get a cheaper NYT subscription because you are an “educator.” Educators are frequently well paid. So are non profit healthcare workers or executive attorneys at nonprofits.

To me, nonprofit or government designation main characteristic is you avoid having your revenue go to taxes (a high profit business recently had to pay 45% or so of profit to federal and state tax). Instead, taxes frequently pay you if you are a charity.

The NFL and NCAA are nonprofits, right? Anyhow about black box charities. This is a creature of US tax law. Plenty of people bust their ass for society working as a business. Plenty of people live luxurious lives in the big charity world. Do you think people at the Gates Foundation have as tough a life as my plumber does, or a farmer? Affluent black box charity people are on easy street, and get to use TIAA-Cref for their retirement. Rant complete.

Three words: So freakin’ what. Three more: Boo freakin’ hoo. Go out and invent something or better yourself and get a better job. It’s not your money and you don’t have a right to it.

By the way...how many people owe their livelihoods to these three people you’re complaining about here? How much economic prosperity have they provided? They should keep every damn dime they earn and people should be grateful they exist.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

I’m anything but rich, but like others I know in similar financial assets, have donor-advised funds. It’s a tax-deductible charitable donation that then grows tax-free. The fund can only be donated to qualified charities like NPR or PBS. It’s also set up in my estate plan. This isn’t some huge tax dodge; it’s entirely legal.

GF

You greedy bastard!!! Give us your money!!! I need extra income offset my degree in underwater basket weaving which has left me serving coffee at Starbucks!

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Care to describe exactly how or where you were screwed by a wealthy person? Exactly where they took moment from you? Are you screwed by leftie George Soros or rightie Koch brothers?

Also, I’d bet you could set up a $10,000 DAF and give back to your community using a tax deduction supported by nearly everyone.

GF

He wasn’t. He probably does like the rest of the middle class does. Live outside their means. Buy a house, run up debt, pay it off with a line of equity. Wash, rinse, repeat.

People, your house is not a piggy bank. It’s your greatest asset. If you have squandered it by buying things you want instead of things you need, then you will end up poor in the end. It’s very simple. It’s amazing to me how many people are oblivious to this.

DL717 wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

WarRI1 wrote:

Another tax dodge for the wealthy. .

criminal tax fraud has a 3 year statue of limitation, right? That tells you all you need to know about how serious a country is about getting people to pay their fair share.

best regards
Thomas

Define fair share. I get a chunk of what you have or you get a chunk of what I have?

50% seems to be a good rule of thumb value for a functioning government and society. If the government isn't as terrible ineffective as the US admin that is.
Since I pay more than that I would think it's your money in this case.

DL717 wrote:

WTF? That money does not belong to society. It belongs to me. I earned it, not you. You want money, get out and earn it.

Try making money in a place without working government. Good luck. While I think 90% is quite a bit over the top even for really high incomes, if all the things that enable you to make that money are not financed, you should want to pay more.

My parents couldn't have financed University for me, their ability to support me ended by giving me a twenty for the train ticket home when I came to visit. Without free university education, I wouldn't pay 53,07%, because my income would be less than half.

Best regards
Thomas

Try making money in a place without working government. Good luck. While I think 90% is quite a bit over the top even for really high incomes

And that’s what taxes are for-justice system, public goods like infrastructure, defense. Taxes aren’t for bribing peace from some by stealing from others.

BTW, someone paid for your education, it wasn’t “free”.

GF

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Try making money in a place without working government. Good luck. While I think 90% is quite a bit over the top even for really high incomes

And that’s what taxes are for-justice system, public goods like infrastructure, defense. Taxes aren’t for bribing peace from some by stealing from others.

Bullshit. Taxes are for whatever the hell the government decides they are for, not what you think they are for. The existance of government makes life without money impossible. Hence the government has to make sure that everyone has enough money to get by. Preferingly by creating an environment where few people need government assistance.
If you don't have property to be stolen and don't have a car to use that infrastructure, you probably don't care about defending that place either. So obviously their taxes can't be for all you have listed.
Taxes are taxes, not stealing. Try to use words correctly.

BTW, someone paid for your education, it wasn’t “free”.

GF

Yup, I do, and have many times over by now. I just didn't have to prepay it. Much better system for the people involved.

Best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Try making money in a place without working government. Good luck. While I think 90% is quite a bit over the top even for really high incomes

And that’s what taxes are for-justice system, public goods like infrastructure, defense. Taxes aren’t for bribing peace from some by stealing from others.

Bullshit. Taxes are for whatever the hell the government decides they are for, not what you think they are for. The existance of government makes life without money impossible. Hence the government has to make sure that everyone has enough money to get by. Preferingly by creating an environment where few people need government assistance.
If you don't have property to be stolen and don't have a car to use that infrastructure, you probably don't care about defending that place either. So obviously their taxes can't be for all you have listed.
Taxes are taxes, not stealing. Try to use words correctly.

BTW, someone paid for your education, it wasn’t “free”.

GF

Yup, I do, and have many times over by now. I just didn't have to prepay it. Much better system for the people involved.

Best regards
Thomas

Get a grant or government backed loan for your education? Who do you think pays for the grant and subsidizes the interest? Public university? Who subsidized that? Public grade school and high school? Who do you think subsidized that?

Answer: The wealthy. They pay more taxes.

DL717 wrote:

Get a grant or government backed loan for your education? Who do you think pays for the grant and subsidizes the interest? Public university? Who subsidized that? Public grade school and high school? Who do you think subsidized that?

Answer: The wealthy. They pay more taxes.

And they take more than they pay in through loopholes and writing the tax code and putting money off shore and declaring themselves non-profits.

Thanks for trying, though.

I like the latest analogy for this.

Three men walk into a room where there is only a table with 100 cookies. One man takes 99 cookies and tells the second man "that other guy is going to steal your cookie!"

Who grew the wheat for the flour, tested the recipe, made the ingredients, built the bakery BEFORE the cookies were on the table. They come out of nowhere.

Taxes are for public goods, not private goods. Your education meant that someone else didn’t get that education as there is a limited number of seats. In the US, the bottom half of the income distribution pay NO income taxes; the top 1% (1.3 million filers) pay a greater share of the taxes than the bottom 90% (124.5 million filers). How progressive do you want it to be?

GF

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Who grew the wheat for the flour, tested the recipe, made the ingredients, built the bakery BEFORE the cookies were on the table. They come out of nowhere.

wow. You completely missed the point.

Taxes are for public goods, not private goods. Your education meant that someone else didn’t get that education as there is a limited number of seats. In the US, the bottom half of the income distribution pay NO income taxes; the top 1% (1.3 million filers) pay a greater share of the taxes than the bottom 90% (124.5 million filers). How progressive do you want it to be?

GF

Well, no. If that were true, then there would be no line on my paycheck that shows federal taxes being removed. And, the top 1% have a greater advantage because, in addition to getting everything back, if they pay anything at all, they also get more back through tax loopholes.

Public education is in shambles in this country because there are not enough classrooms for everyone. Not enough teachers and teachers are told what they have to teach and students not attending because of home issues. Like not having a home or they have to work to help support the family.

The rich got rich and the poor got rich back in the 1950s and 1960s. Not everything was perfect but the tax brackets were better for everyone.

No, you missed point—the cookies just didn’t show up out of the sky, the “rich” person just didn’t walk in and steal 99 from the others. Somebody made them using the fruits of many other’s work. If you think some people are rich because God, society or the tooth fairly dropped wealth onto the table for some bully to walk in a steal them, you don’t know squat about free markets, capitalism or life.

GF

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

No, you missed point—the cookies just didn’t show up out of the sky, the “rich” person just didn’t walk in and steal 99 from the others. Somebody made them using the fruits of many other’s work. If you think some people are rich because God, society or the tooth fairly dropped wealth onto the table for some bully to walk in a steal them, you don’t know squat about free markets, capitalism or life.

GF

They have no concept of what it is to pay real taxes. They just want to complain about what they don’t have. Envy is a horrible thing, a poison in society.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

No, you missed point—the cookies just didn’t show up out of the sky, the “rich” person just didn’t walk in and steal 99 from the others. Somebody made them using the fruits of many other’s work. If you think some people are rich because God, society or the tooth fairly dropped wealth onto the table for some bully to walk in a steal them, you don’t know squat about free markets, capitalism or life.

GF

You are just missing all over the place.

No one cares the rich are rich. People DO care that the rich dodge taxes.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1MN0TK

Jared Kushner paid no taxes for years. Righties complain that "the poor" don't pay taxes but celebrate that the rich don't pay taxes and, in some cases, get money back.

My original analogy, you completely missed. But, let's go down your road. People who make the cookies likely can not afford the cookies because they work for minimum wage and have to use their pay for things like rent and basic food and health care that does not cover squat. The people who benefit from all that hard work are at the top. They started with money, bought into the company and tell those at the very bottom they are not working hard enough for too much so accept a pay cut. The ones who actually reap the benefits from stock splits and profits are at the top. Not the ones actually producing the products.

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity
by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

Okie

Okie wrote:

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity
by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

Okie

How do you propose the poor get rich? Give them less? That seems to be the narrative of the right. That and "the left" hates the rich. Which is not true at all but, repeat something enough, as the saying goes. The rich stay rich even when the poor get rich.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Care to describe exactly how or where you were screwed by a wealthy person? Exactly where they took moment from you? Are you screwed by leftie George Soros or rightie Koch brothers?

Also, I’d bet you could set up a $10,000 DAF and give back to your community using a tax deduction supported by nearly everyone.

GF

Did I not say, the system set up by Republicans and Democrats, did I use the term wealthy without political affiliation? Duh!!!

seb146 wrote:

Okie wrote:

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity
by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

Okie

How do you propose the poor get rich? Give them less? That seems to be the narrative of the right. That and "the left" hates the rich. Which is not true at all but, repeat something enough, as the saying goes. The rich stay rich even when the poor get rich.

This country is literally riddled with people who have gone from being poor to being wealthy. It’s also riddled with people who are poor that were once wealthy. It’s all about the effort one puts into it.

DL717 wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Okie wrote:

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity
by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

Okie

How do you propose the poor get rich? Give them less? That seems to be the narrative of the right. That and "the left" hates the rich. Which is not true at all but, repeat something enough, as the saying goes. The rich stay rich even when the poor get rich.

This country is literally riddled with people who have gone from being poor to being wealthy. It’s also riddled with people who are poor that were once wealthy. It’s all about the effort one puts into it.

When you riddle something it is full of (holes), so unless something is (obliterated), there is (mass) left. In the question of the (wealthy) being the (holes), we have a (mass),(the 90%) that is huge compared to the (holes), (the wealthy) so the wealth certainly could be more evenly distributed to lesson the (mass), the (90%) area between the (holes). The (holes)(wealthy) control the (mass), which is unrealistic, which seems to be because of the crooked tax code which favors the (holes), not the (mass). Conclusion. We are getting screwed by the system and the (wealthy). Now the question, who are the (A Holes), the (wealthy) or the (Mass) (90%) who allow this? I think it is the people who wrote the tax code to screw the (Mass) to favor the (Holes)

DL717 wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Okie wrote:

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity
by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

Okie

How do you propose the poor get rich? Give them less? That seems to be the narrative of the right. That and "the left" hates the rich. Which is not true at all but, repeat something enough, as the saying goes. The rich stay rich even when the poor get rich.

This country is literally riddled with people who have gone from being poor to being wealthy. It’s also riddled with people who are poor that were once wealthy. It’s all about the effort one puts into it.

This country's social mobility has been trending negative since Reagan and is now at an all time low thanks to Republican Feudal policies that want to turn 90% of Americans into mindless serfs. And you keep voting for these evil traitors, so you can just piss right off.

https://www.businessinsider.com/social- ... eam-2017-7

DL717 wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

And that’s what taxes are for-justice system, public goods like infrastructure, defense. Taxes aren’t for bribing peace from some by stealing from others.

Bullshit. Taxes are for whatever the hell the government decides they are for, not what you think they are for. The existance of government makes life without money impossible. Hence the government has to make sure that everyone has enough money to get by. Preferingly by creating an environment where few people need government assistance.
If you don't have property to be stolen and don't have a car to use that infrastructure, you probably don't care about defending that place either. So obviously their taxes can't be for all you have listed.
Taxes are taxes, not stealing. Try to use words correctly.

BTW, someone paid for your education, it wasn’t “free”.

GF

Yup, I do, and have many times over by now. I just didn't have to prepay it. Much better system for the people involved.

Best regards
Thomas

Get a grant or government backed loan for your education? Who do you think pays for the grant and subsidizes the interest? Public university? Who subsidized that? Public grade school and high school? Who do you think subsidized that?

Answer: The wealthy. They pay more taxes.

And they would need to subsidize much less if we cut out the financing question and just make it free of charge. No interest rates to subsidize.
Here "the wealthy" are screaming for more people with higher education in the labour force all the time. Someone that doesn't have a student loan breathing down his neck is also cheaper to hire. Free of charge education is a win/win for all involved. It also "enabled" me to pay 6x more income tax than I would with an average income, my income tax is about 90% of that average gross pay. I'd say the return in investment is quite nice for other tax payers too.

Best regards
Thomas

Okie wrote:

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity
by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

Okie

No, you can't.
But you can't legislate rock bottom higher up without legislating the wealthy our of their wealth. Plenty of countries with reliable social systems have plenty of wealthy people.
You can legislate upwards mobility to be easier, without legislating the wealthy our of their wealth. Someone that doesn't have to pay for his masters degree, still has to do all the learning, understanding and test passing by himself.

Out of the 18 countries with at least 200k millionaires 14 have a higher median wealth per adult than the US, up to 6 times higher, two just slightly less, and they all have plenty of weathy people with most of them having comprehensive social systems and cheap or free education.... go figure.

https://www.businessinsider.com/countri ... res-2017-4

Best regards
Thomas

Where do you live where you pay a 90% marginal tax rate? You still go on about “free” education. Education is a scarce commodity, someone getting it means someone else won’t be. It’s rationed somehow.

GF

DL717 wrote:

seb146 wrote:

Okie wrote:

You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity
by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

Okie

How do you propose the poor get rich? Give them less? That seems to be the narrative of the right. That and "the left" hates the rich. Which is not true at all but, repeat something enough, as the saying goes. The rich stay rich even when the poor get rich.

This country is literally riddled with people who have gone from being poor to being wealthy. It’s also riddled with people who are poor that were once wealthy. It’s all about the effort one puts into it.

This country is literally riddled with millions of people put effort in but get nothing or less back. Righties love to demand everyone pull themselves up by bootstraps but do not give them any bootstraps to begin with. "You were born poor? Your starting like is 10 miles that way. You were born rich? Your starting line is next to the tape."

Besides, I already said there are wealthy people who worked their behinds off. And then there are people who have millions handed to them the second they are born.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Where do you live where you pay a 90% marginal tax rate? You still go on about “free” education. Education is a scarce commodity, someone getting it means someone else won’t be. It’s rationed somehow.

GF

So, you have zero facts to back up any of your statement. Are you Herman Cain? No one pays 90% taxes anymore. Education is not free after high school. There are tuition based elementary and high schools. If people can afford it, fine. If people can afford private university, fine. There are people who don't even want to attend university. And what is wrong with lowering the cost of education so everyone has a shot at a better life?

We keep saying "low cost" but righties only see "free". I don't know if there is some problem with translation or the format. Low cost is not free. Stop changing words.

GalaxyFlyer wrote:

Where do you live where you pay a 90% marginal tax rate? You still go on about “free” education. Education is a scarce commodity, someone getting it means someone else won’t be. It’s rationed somehow.

GF

Education is artificially scarce. The resource itself is unlimited.

Best regards
Thomas

LittleFokker wrote:

DL717 wrote:

seb146 wrote:

How do you propose the poor get rich? Give them less? That seems to be the narrative of the right. That and "the left" hates the rich. Which is not true at all but, repeat something enough, as the saying goes. The rich stay rich even when the poor get rich.

This country is literally riddled with people who have gone from being poor to being wealthy. It’s also riddled with people who are poor that were once wealthy. It’s all about the effort one puts into it.

This country's social mobility has been trending negative since Reagan and is now at an all time low thanks to Republican Feudal policies that want to turn 90% of Americans into mindless serfs. And you keep voting for these evil traitors, so you can just piss right off.

https://www.businessinsider.com/social- ... eam-2017-7

I think you’re talking about our public education system turning people into mindless serfs. That seems to be the root of the problem.