Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
PanHAM wrote:It is not a privilege, it is a basic right
c933103 wrote:PanHAM wrote:It is not a privilege, it is a basic right
Then why it's mot universally applied in reality?
c933103 wrote:PanHAM wrote:It is not a privilege, it is a basic right
Then why it's mot universally applied in reality?
PanHAM wrote:OK, I am privileged to be a citizen of a Country where no Fueher or anyone else can take that privilege from me. That is guaranteed by the eternal paragraphs of the German Basic law. And that is a right, not a privilege.
PanHAM wrote:That is not possible any more in Germany.
PanHAM wrote:That is not possible any more in Germany.
masi1157 wrote:Trump is trying to.
aviationaware wrote:masi1157 wrote:Trump is trying to.
This kind of misstatement is the reason why nobody takes you seriously. In no way is President Trump trying to undermine the constitution or take away basic human rights.
aviationaware wrote:masi1157 wrote:Trump is trying to.
This kind of misstatement is the reason why nobody takes you seriously. In no way is President Trump trying to undermine the constitution or take away basic human rights.
slider wrote:I think far too many people, and governments for that matter, fundamentally misunderstand the very concept of human rights. We are given our rights by our Creator. Governments are instituted by man.
Dutchy wrote:aviationaware wrote:masi1157 wrote:Trump is trying to.
This kind of misstatement is the reason why nobody takes you seriously. In no way is President Trump trying to undermine the constitution or take away basic human rights.
Don't think you could seriously mean this statement. Think I could just think of:
> locking up innocent children without their parents
> making distinction between nationalities whom could enter or not
> taking away health care (Obama care)
> if we take Trump seriously: killing family members of terrorist suspects | sending many to Quantanomobay | waterboarding or torture
And there must be many more.
aviationaware wrote:Dutchy wrote:aviationaware wrote:
This kind of misstatement is the reason why nobody takes you seriously. In no way is President Trump trying to undermine the constitution or take away basic human rights.
Don't think you could seriously mean this statement. Think I could just think of:
> locking up innocent children without their parents
> making distinction between nationalities whom could enter or not
> taking away health care (Obama care)
> if we take Trump seriously: killing family members of terrorist suspects | sending many to Quantanomobay | waterboarding or torture
And there must be many more.
> that was an Obama era policy that Trump merely continued
> differentiating between nationalities for entry purposes is the prerogative of any sovereign nation - but of course being dutch you aren’t from a sovereign coutry so you wouldn’t understand
> Healthcareis not a universal human right
> he only said he was for torture, he hasn’t acted on it in any way
Any more futile attempts, dutchy?
aviationaware wrote:> Healthcareis not a universal human right
EstherLouise wrote:Health care may not be a right, but HEALTH is a basic human right. A healthy nation is a strong nation.
masi1157 wrote:PanHAM wrote:That is not possible any more in Germany.
Not possible because it's forbidden by the Grundgesetz? And what if somebody comes to power who undermines, changes and no longer respects the Grundgesetz? Erdogan is demonstrating the way, Trump is trying to. Btw: Soll die Signatur auf deutsch geschrieben sein? Dann verstehe ich sie nicht.
Gruß, masi1157
PanHAM wrote:masi1157 wrote:PanHAM wrote:That is not possible any more in Germany.
Not possible because it's forbidden by the Grundgesetz? And what if somebody comes to power who undermines, changes and no longer respects the Grundgesetz? Erdogan is demonstrating the way, Trump is trying to. Btw: Soll die Signatur auf deutsch geschrieben sein? Dann verstehe ich sie nicht.
Gruß, masi1157
There are "eternal" paragraphs which cannot be changed by assemblies or individuals and article 20 gives the right to resist People or movements that try to Change or remove these articles. What Erdogan has done to Turkey would be unconstitutional and lawless in Germany. Article 20 gives us the right to "Tyrannenmord". if nothing else helps to put the Basic law into effect again.
To understand my signature Google "Trapatoni, Bayern Munich speech" To mirror the current Situation I coud add "Hatte regiert wie Flasche leer".
aviationaware wrote:Criticism is one thing dutchy, accusing someone of human rights violations is a whole another animal. That’s not a joking matter. Just like the people who call Israel an apartheid state denigrate the victims of real apartheid states, your rampant accusations against Trump are a slap in the face for victims of true human rights violators.
seb146 wrote:c933103 wrote:In the United States, it is seen more as a privilege. .
FlightMode wrote:Human rights are an abstract or an ideal to be strived for. Nowhere are they absolute or universally observed.
Dutchy wrote:FlightMode wrote:Human rights are an abstract or an ideal to be strived for. Nowhere are they absolute or universally observed.
Absolutely true. Some countries have indeed a good legal system which protects citizens against their government. We in Europe, are protected and can go to court if our governments violate the human rights and they are more explicit here, also a benefit from the EU. But indeed it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Even pollution can be seen as a human right violation, simply because it damages one's health or climate change and if governments doesn't do enough to prevent it.
So yes, human rights are something to strive for and something we need as a society of free citizens.
seahawk wrote:And yet, all this becomes relative in a state of emergency or times of war.
GG wrote:Article 20
[Constitutional principles – Right of resistance]
(1) The Federal Republic of Germany is a democratic and social federal state.
(2) All state authority is derived from the people. It shall be exercised by the people through elections and other votes and through specific legislative, executive and judicial bodies.
(3) The legislature shall be bound by the constitutional order, the executive and the judiciary by law and justice.
(4) All Germans shall have the right to resist any person seeking to abolish this constitutional order, if no other remedy is available.
slider wrote:I think far too many people, and governments for that matter, fundamentally misunderstand the very concept of human rights. We are given our rights by our Creator. Governments are instituted by man.
Until the great American experiment, no successful nation had as its very foundation the premise that government's job is to not encroach upon those God-given rights. "Rights" by definition, cannot be taken away, granted or any such thing, yet we've seen it time and time again, throughout history.
I disagree with Seahawk that human rights are like human law---they are not nor should they be, but they do get stepped on, sadly. Law is created by man to create order from chaos. To instill rules for society to follow to enable human rights to flourish. It's a critical distinction.
c933103 wrote:slider wrote:I think far too many people, and governments for that matter, fundamentally misunderstand the very concept of human rights. We are given our rights by our Creator. Governments are instituted by man.
Until the great American experiment, no successful nation had as its very foundation the premise that government's job is to not encroach upon those God-given rights. "Rights" by definition, cannot be taken away, granted or any such thing, yet we've seen it time and time again, throughout history.
I disagree with Seahawk that human rights are like human law---they are not nor should they be, but they do get stepped on, sadly. Law is created by man to create order from chaos. To instill rules for society to follow to enable human rights to flourish. It's a critical distinction.
That is a very creationist view.
What about those people who don't believe in, or maybe have never heard of, the god?
And how is it god given if it take the entire society to protect?