Musk Considering Taking Tesla Private

Revelation · Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:00 pm

https://slashdot.org/story/18/08/07/183 ... nouncement

Shares suspended awaiting an announcement.

Funding said to be in place.

I guess that's one way to get rid of pissed off short sellers?

VTKillarney · Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:02 pm

I’d love to know who would pay $71 billion for Tesla. They better love risk.

Tugger · Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:35 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
I’d love to know who would pay $71 billion for Tesla. They better love risk.

$82B actually since you need to also buy the debt, not just the outstanding shares.

Tugg

Revelation · Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:39 pm

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1026914941004001280 says the finance is certain, but a shareholder vote is needed to go private.

trpmb6 · Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:45 pm

I wonder if this is just a ploy to gin up interest by shareholders again.

Revelation · Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:50 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
I wonder if this is just a ploy to gin up interest by shareholders again.

As above, Musk has been pretty upset about short sellers (allegedly) spreading rumours to hurt the stock price and thus make the short sellers rich.

Seems if nothing else he's giving them a strong taste of the down side of that strategy.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesl ... SKBN1KS23A says:

The rally after Musk’s tweet unleashed fresh pain for short-sellers in Tesla, the most shorted U.S. stock.

With shares at $369.90, short-sellers logged an on-paper loss of $977 million, according to financial analytics firm S3 partners.

Short-sellers, who had been saddled with sharp losses earlier this month after Tesla shares soared following quarterly results, were now $2.69 billion in the red for the year, according to S3 data.

Tugger · Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:55 pm

Revelation wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
I wonder if this is just a ploy to gin up interest by shareholders again.

As above, Musk has been pretty upset about short sellers (allegedly) spreading rumours to hurt the stock price and thus make the short sellers rich.

Seems if nothing else he's giving them a strong taste of the down side of that strategy.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesl ... SKBN1KS23A says:

The rally after Musk’s tweet unleashed fresh pain for short-sellers in Tesla, the most shorted U.S. stock.

With shares at $369.90, short-sellers logged an on-paper loss of $977 million, according to financial analytics firm S3 partners.

Short-sellers, who had been saddled with sharp losses earlier this month after Tesla shares soared following quarterly results, were now $2.69 billion in the red for the year, according to S3 data.

Basically he has to be being truthful and have financing of some type lined up. Otherwise he would be giving the greatest gift ever to the short sellers if it could be proven he was lying and just trying to drive the share price. He already can be a liability with what he says, lying would be a whole new level and drive the stock down in reaction. in addition to the punishment/fines the SEC investigation would bring.

Tugg

trpmb6 · Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:57 pm

Revelation wrote:
trpmb6 wrote:
I wonder if this is just a ploy to gin up interest by shareholders again.

As above, Musk has been pretty upset about short sellers (allegedly) spreading rumours to hurt the stock price and thus make the short sellers rich.

Seems if nothing else he's giving them a strong taste of the down side of that strategy.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesl ... SKBN1KS23A says:

The rally after Musk’s tweet unleashed fresh pain for short-sellers in Tesla, the most shorted U.S. stock.

With shares at $369.90, short-sellers logged an on-paper loss of $977 million, according to financial analytics firm S3 partners.

Short-sellers, who had been saddled with sharp losses earlier this month after Tesla shares soared following quarterly results, were now $2.69 billion in the red for the year, according to S3 data.

Hence my line of thought that this could just be him manipulating the stock to hurt the short-sellers. The difference though, is there are consequences for him as the CEO for doing such things if its found that was his true motive. Hard to prove of course.

I suppose we'll really know soon enough.

VTKillarney · Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:58 pm

Or he could be cashing his own stock out before everything goes to hell in a hand basket.

Tugger · Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:01 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
Or he could be cashing his own stock out before everything goes to hell in a hand basket.

Don't know why he would actually do that. I mean I know why other people might do that but Musk is a billionaire many times over and has proven time and time again that he is not just in it for the money per se. He likes disrupting and seeing what he can do.

He might sell but not lie to cash out (in my opinion).

Tugg

DL717 · Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:08 pm

Anything to get this guy off the government teet.

trpmb6 · Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:11 pm

I've always had trouble with Tesla as an investment option personally. I don't think the business model has a strong long term outlook. The cars just aren't cheap enough yet. Once that tax break is exhausted it's going to be a tough sell. They really need to cheapen the car.

Just some math:
Tax break is $7500
In a comparable car with a typical usage I'd say you spend about 30$ every 2 weeks in gas. that's $780 a year in gas. 10 years of ownership (if you bought a Tesla new, you're going to buy other vehicles new and probably won't even own your car for a full 10 years) and you've spent 7800 in gas. So if you can get a decent car for 7500 less than a tesla, why get the tesla? This doesn't even factor in electricity costs.

Sure there might be other countries that subsidize that Tesla can ship to but that's not a great business model if you have to ship all of your product out.

To me its just a status symbol. Once that subsidy runs out they're going to have trouble meeting their sale numbers. I already know some people who are considering not going with it because they have to spend more money to wire their garage as well. And that's including the fact that they will get the full subsidy.

Tugger · Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:10 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
I've always had trouble with Tesla as an investment option personally. I don't think the business model has a strong long term outlook. The cars just aren't cheap enough yet. Once that tax break is exhausted it's going to be a tough sell. They really need to cheapen the car.

Just some math:
Tax break is $7500
In a comparable car with a typical usage I'd say you spend about 30$ every 2 weeks in gas. that's $780 a year in gas. 10 years of ownership (if you bought a Tesla new, you're going to buy other vehicles new and probably won't even own your car for a full 10 years) and you've spent 7800 in gas. So if you can get a decent car for 7500 less than a tesla, why get the tesla? This doesn't even factor in electricity costs.

Sure there might be other countries that subsidize that Tesla can ship to but that's not a great business model if you have to ship all of your product out.

To me its just a status symbol. Once that subsidy runs out they're going to have trouble meeting their sale numbers. I already know some people who are considering not going with it because they have to spend more money to wire their garage as well. And that's including the fact that they will get the full subsidy.

"In a comparable car?" What kind of car are you considering as comparable? Most reviewers are comparing the Tesla Model 3 to the BMW 3, Audi A series and the S to the BMW 5, Audi 6 series. It is not an exact match of course but still. Also $30 every two weeks? I have a car that gets a combined 30mpg and I put $30-$40 a week into it. Combined mileage for the gasoline Audi and BMW would be around 22-24 mpg at best.

Just curious. Thanks.

Also as to it being just a status symbol. I think it has moved beyond that (and yes that does affect its allure to many) but most importantly the performance it provides is insane. So far beyond what any normal performance gasoline powered car can do. Tesla I think at the very least has proven that the future is electric driven cars. The power can come from gas or battery or Mr. Fusion but put in an electric motor and performance increases and complexity (reciprocating motor plus transmission) goes way, way down.

Tugg

VTKillarney · Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:19 pm

A Tesla Model 3 starts at $49,000 but it's impossible to get one for that price.

An Audi A3 starts at $32,000. A BMW 3 series starts at $35,000.

Those cars will also go as far as you want them to go without having to recharge.

I would love to see Tesla succeed but there are a lot of hurdles for it to justify its current valuation.

dtw2hyd · Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:38 pm

Unless Tesla has some unique software no one else has and cannot develop quickly they have no advantage.

There are Chinese companies churning out electric buses by thousands, they can easily build a replica at half of Tesla's price tag.

Musk has to motivate typical iPhone buyers who don't know much about technology, but they think they do.

Also, men going through a middle age crisis is another demography Musk should target. This should be marketed as present-day Porsche 911.

wingman · Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:36 pm

Not a bad move if he can do it, takes the pressure off the quarterly performance and lets the company focus on longer range planning vs churning out cars last minute like they have been. I do t own a Tesla or the stock but I still find it remarkable that they compete against companies an average of a hundred years old and not one of them has really figured out a solid response. I guess Jag and Porsche are out there now, we’ll see how they do. I stilllike Apple buying Tesla and creating a fully autonomous and wired car 10 years out. It could happen.

TheFlyingDisk · Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:42 pm

Tesla's lack of focus is a problem in my opinion. Not having perfected car manufacturing, it decides to branch out in truck manufacturing etc. Plus you have the eccentric billionaire running around shooting his mouth & behaving erratically (remember his April Fool stunt?).

At the very least someone should keep Elon Musk on a leash & tug it when he goes on a tangent.

Aesma · Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:40 am

Pissed off short seller doesn't make sense. If you're short selling then you're happy to see the stock go down, not pissed off.

JJJ · Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:25 am

trpmb6 wrote:
I've always had trouble with Tesla as an investment option personally. I don't think the business model has a strong long term outlook. The cars just aren't cheap enough yet. Once that tax break is exhausted it's going to be a tough sell. They really need to cheapen the car.

Just some math:
Tax break is $7500

And just recently hit the button for phasing out.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/12/1756 ... nding-date

Tesla customers who take delivery of their cars — regardless of whether it’s a Model S, X, or 3 — between now and December 31st, 2018, will still be eligible for the full $7,500 credit from the IRS. Customers who take delivery of their cars between January 1st and June 30th, 2019, will only be eligible for a $3,750 credit. And customers who take delivery of their cars between July 1st and December 31st, 2019, will be offered just $1,875. After that, the incentive is dead.

A few weeks back we were car shopping for the wife's car replacement. We looked and drove electric offerings (which in these latitudes mean Nissan Leaf and Hyundai Kona EV, since the e-Golf, i3 Ioniq and Kia Soul EV don't meet the range requirements for usual trips, and the Renault Zoe is too small on top of that).

Currently the price premium over a comparable petrol or diesel is approx. 15K euro. And 15K euro buys you an awful lot of fuel. The last incentive for purchasing electric vehicles was 5.500 euro in Spain, but it was all signed for in 2-3 months. So unless you do an enormous amount of city driving, it just doesn't make sense.

trpmb6 · Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:47 pm

Tugger wrote:
"In a comparable car?" What kind of car are you considering as comparable? Most reviewers are comparing the Tesla Model 3 to the BMW 3, Audi A series and the S to the BMW 5, Audi 6 series. It is not an exact match of course but still. Also $30 every two weeks? I have a car that gets a combined 30mpg and I put $30-$40 a week into it. Combined mileage for the gasoline Audi and BMW would be around 22-24 mpg at best.

Just curious. Thanks.

Tugg

That's because you live in California

What's your daily commute like? I drive a Dodge Ram 1500 to work every day and only pay 50 dollars every two weeks. And that thing is a gas guzzler! So I was just kind of ball parking what a typical user in a car would pay.

You also would see other benefits from a tesla being a California resident that other states don't offer.

You kind of proved my point by noting the Tesla 3 is comparable to BMW 3. 49,000 MSRP (before tax incentive) vs 35,000 MSRP. Those are the base options.

Tesla has some work to do before the economics are in their favor. Which is fine, they will get there eventually. They just aren't there yet.

dtw2hyd · Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:23 pm

Very little coverage in MSM, maybe they don't want to be part of a federal investigation if this goes sideways.

Isn't calling for a shareholder meeting too risky for Musk, they may remove him at the same meeting.

trpmb6 · Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:01 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Very little coverage in MSM, maybe they don't want to be part of a federal investigation if this goes sideways.

Isn't calling for a shareholder meeting too risky for Musk, they may remove him at the same meeting.

Musk is the majority shareholder.

Kiwirob · Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:22 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

Also, men going through a middle age crisis is another demography Musk should target. This should be marketed as present-day Porsche 911.

Men going through a middle age crisis have better electric cars they can buy now, the Jag I-Pace, the Audi E-Tron and the Porsche Taycan. The Jag is already being delivered and the other two will be by the end of the year.

Tesla are good for what they are but the build quality is absolutely horrible for the price, the interiors fall to pieces and look worn quickly. I know two people who have traded Model S’s in for conventional cars, they just don’t work if you want a car you can get in and drive without limitations.

I bought a new two weeks ago, I tested a Model S for three days and just couldn’t make myself like it, so I ended up with another A6 Avant, this time a quattro, it’s just a better all round vehicle and better suits my families needs.

Revelation · Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:22 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Very little coverage in MSM, maybe they don't want to be part of a federal investigation if this goes sideways.

Isn't calling for a shareholder meeting too risky for Musk, they may remove him at the same meeting.

Musk is the majority shareholder.

Right, but he doesn't hold the majority of the shares.

He owns ~20%, so in theory a cabal representing >50% could oust him.

But of course that same set of stockholders are the ones who voted for him and his slate of corporate officers to begin with...

Revelation · Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:28 pm

Aesma wrote:
Pissed off short seller doesn't make sense. If you're short selling then you're happy to see the stock go down, not pissed off.

Yeah, but TFA said it went up:

The stock had been worth about $342 a share before Musk's tweet, and shares quickly jumped as high as $371.

And I just looked and it's still at $370.

And overall, as quoted above:

The rally after Musk’s tweet unleashed fresh pain for short-sellers in Tesla, the most shorted U.S. stock.

With shares at $369.90, short-sellers logged an on-paper loss of $977 million, according to financial analytics firm S3 partners.

Short-sellers, who had been saddled with sharp losses earlier this month after Tesla shares soared following quarterly results, were now $2.69 billion in the red for the year, according to S3 data.

Aesma · Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:19 am

Yeah they're pissed of as a result, we agree on that.

In France MSM won't talk about this as average French people are financially illiterate and wouldn't understand. Business TV channels talk about it.

Here the incentive to buy an electric car is 6000€ and there is no limit to the number of cars that can benefit. A gas/petrol equivalent of a Tesla S, with good performance (but still inferior) will get a 10500€ gas guzzler tax slapped on it, so it increases the difference.

Base model S 75D is 82800€. The Audi A6 is much slower, only the S6 comes close. It costs 97000€. So after incentives and gas guzzler tax it's a 30000€ difference.

The Audi will burn at least 10l/100Km, probably more, so at an average of 15000Km/year, and current gas price of 1.55€/l, that's 2300€/year in gas.

JJJ · Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:43 am

Well, for once the SEC steps in and will look into Musk's tweets.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/08/tesla-l ... weets.html

Since Musk doesn't seem to be able to let go of his twitter addiction it makes sense to go private, or there'll be more of them.

dtw2hyd · Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:54 am

Well, some of the best run family-owned private American companies are the ones without any social media presence, and those are not even well-known names.

JJJ · Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:23 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Well, some of the best run family-owned private American companies are the ones without any social media presence, and those are not even well-known names.

I work for a multinational company with manufacturing plants in every continent that has elected to remain privately owned by the two founding families.

We have a token social media presence (itself mostly focused on the marginal consumer division). Being private is ok as long as you don't need financing, but once Musk elected to take other peoples' money he should have kept in mind that it comes with certain rules and conventions.

Okie · Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:25 pm

As a casual observer, the only reason someone in Musk's position claiming there are plans to take a company private with "stealth offers" of stock prices $80 above selling price is two fold.

1. Hold the stock price at high artificial levels so insiders can dump their stock.
2. Decreasing insider exposure before filing Chapter 11 bankruptcy at which point stock holders take a bath and Musk ends up running his own company privately owned with the help of a court appointed trustee.

Then I could be wrong but Musk's actions of late, including asking for vendor rebates, indicates there is something severly amiss at Tesla.

Okie

VTKillarney · Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:07 pm

Well, they lost $1.8 billion last quarter and have only $2.2 billion left on hand.

Mind you, some of that loss was capital expenditures.

No sane person would buy Tesla out at over $70 billion plus debt.

This may be a scheme to pump up the price so their massive debt payment due in March can be converted to stock.

dtw2hyd · Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:15 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
No sane person would buy Tesla out at over $70 billion plus debt.

Saudis and any other oil cartel would buy companies promoting alternative energies. Benefits are two-fold, one they can claim they are not solely into fossil fuels, and they can kill the company anytime.

I heard quite a few shale gas companies in North Dakota and other states are owned by Saudis.

trpmb6 · Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:16 pm

As I've said, the business model doesn't work without subsidies. The long term outlook is quite poor for Tesla if they can't find another way to lower the cost of their vehicles.

Revelation · Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:01 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
As I've said, the business model doesn't work without subsidies.

It doesn't work even with subsidies, and yet, people still are in the queue to get their car.

Some are willing to overpay to be early adopters, just like iPhones.

We'll see how long the buzz lasts.

Meanwhile, Apple passes $trillion in valuation, so you never know.

The key technology is the battery, thus the huge investment in the Gigafactory.

If someone comes along and undermines them with battery tech they can't match, then they have a huge problem.

For instance the Nissan Leaf has been a cheap and cheerful e-car you could have had for a long time now, no queue.

What does it lack? Coolness factor and range.

Give it a better battery than Tesla and the coolness won't be enough.

VW and others are making major investments.

Should be an interesting few years.

trpmb6 · Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:26 pm

Revelation wrote:
What does it lack? Coolness factor and range.

Give it a better battery than Tesla and the coolness won't be enough.

VW and others are making major investments.

Should be an interesting few years.

Hence my other comment about it being a status symbol :rotfl:

JJJ · Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:38 pm

Revelation wrote:

For instance the Nissan Leaf has been a cheap and cheerful e-car you could have had for a long time now, no queue.

I wouldn't call 35K cheap and cheerful when comparable hatchbacks can be can for under 20K. Likewise for Hyundai Kona EV at the same price level.

There's an approximate 15K premium for an electric car at the moment, and 15K buys for an awful lot of gas.

Even then I was told a couple weeks ago that I could get a Nissan leaf in 3-4 weeks, but only in black, and only for a certain trim level. Anything else would push delivery back a couple months. That's why Nissan axed the assembly line for the Pulsar in Barcelona and turned into a Leaf one.

Now, Tesla says that they have hundreds of thousands of reservations, but will only deliver a car to you if you're willing to pay +50K. The premium versions of the model 3 are available to buy and you'll get it in weeks. The 35k base model? We'll see.

trpmb6 · Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:12 pm

JJJ wrote:
The 35k base model? We'll see.

There's a 35k base model? Whenever I go to their website the cheapest one I see is the 49,000 one.

https://3.tesla.com/model3/design?#battery

JJJ · Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:47 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
JJJ wrote:
The 35k base model? We'll see.

There's a 35k base model? Whenever I go to their website the cheapest one I see is the 49,000 one.

https://3.tesla.com/model3/design?#battery

So says Musk. 49K is for the long range version (which also has a few goodies bundled in).

trpmb6 · Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:50 pm

The long range version is the only one that qualifies for the full $7500 US tax credit so that may be why they aren't putting out the other one.

Revelation · Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:31 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
Hence my other comment about it being a status symbol

I think it is viewed as a giant status symbol among nerds, especially those with money in the bank, and eco-friendly people too. I'm not so sure how much further it extends. Let me know when the A-listers are embracing it in a very public way.

JJJ wrote:
I wouldn't call 35K cheap and cheerful when comparable hatchbacks can be can for under 20K. Likewise for Hyundai Kona EV at the same price level.

Agree, but the reference point up thread was various BMWs and Audis.

IMHO the main problem is that $35k is coming without the cachet of the Tesla and also without the range. The cachet will wear down in time especially as more people with KiwiRob's experiences emerge. Then, as above, if Tesla can't keep its range advantage over time, they are quite vulnerable. Good thing the Saudis have lots of money to spend.

JJJ wrote:
There's an approximate 15K premium for an electric car at the moment, and 15K buys for an awful lot of gas.

Most people are buying to make a lifestyle statement not to save money.

JJJ wrote:
Even then I was told a couple weeks ago that I could get a Nissan leaf in 3-4 weeks, but only in black, and only for a certain trim level. Anything else would push delivery back a couple months. That's why Nissan axed the assembly line for the Pulsar in Barcelona and turned into a Leaf one.

Now, Tesla says that they have hundreds of thousands of reservations, but will only deliver a car to you if you're willing to pay +50K. The premium versions of the model 3 are available to buy and you'll get it in weeks. The 35k base model? We'll see.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

c933103 · Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:25 am

trpmb6 wrote:
As I've said, the business model doesn't work without subsidies. The long term outlook is quite poor for Tesla if they can't find another way to lower the cost of their vehicles.

Not necessarily subsidy. At past Tesla was really popular here when the government waived the 100%+ tax for buying new electric cars to promote electric car adaption, but as many people turned to Tesla cars and the government worry that it might worsen traffic jam, the waiver is discontinued so they're no longer that much attractive. It depends on how much the government and the society is willing to do for replacing internal combustion cars with electric cars

drew777 · Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:14 am

Revelation wrote:
Some are willing to overpay to be early adopters, just like iPhones.

We'll see how long the buzz lasts.

I pick up my model 3 Monday. Can't wait!

dtw2hyd · Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:21 pm

Revelation wrote:
I think it is viewed as a giant status symbol among nerds, especially those with money in the bank, and eco-friendly people too. I'm not so sure how much further it extends. Let me know when the A-listers are embracing it in a very public way..

I would add "pretend" nerds. Anyone with deep knowledge in Automotive (or) Artificial Intelligence (or) Finance would never buy these vehicles. They are not worth the money, AI can kill you and resale value will be next to nothing.

There are million other ways to spend money in the bank and save the earth.

VTKillarney · Sat Aug 11, 2018 3:03 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I think it is viewed as a giant status symbol among nerds, especially those with money in the bank, and eco-friendly people too. I'm not so sure how much further it extends. Let me know when the A-listers are embracing it in a very public way..

I would add "pretend" nerds. Anyone with deep knowledge in Automotive (or) Artificial Intelligence (or) Finance would never buy these vehicles. They are not worth the money, AI can kill you and resale value will be next to nothing.

There are million other ways to spend money in the bank and save the earth.

Their reliability is horrible. Now the Model 3 is being made in a tent.

LockheedBBD · Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:37 am

Saudi Arabia is interested in taking Tesla private.

From Tesla's blog page: https://www.tesla.com/blog/update-takin ... edirect=no

Why did I say “funding secured”?
Going back almost two years, the Saudi Arabian sovereign wealth fund has approached me multiple times about taking Tesla private. They first met with me at the beginning of 2017 to express this interest because of the important need to diversify away from oil. They then held several additional meetings with me over the next year to reiterate this interest and to try to move forward with a going private transaction. Obviously, the Saudi sovereign fund has more than enough capital needed to execute on such a transaction.

Recently, after the Saudi fund bought almost 5% of Tesla stock through the public markets, they reached out to ask for another meeting. That meeting took place on July 31st. During the meeting, the Managing Director of the fund expressed regret that I had not moved forward previously on a going private transaction with them, and he strongly expressed his support for funding a going private transaction for Tesla at this time. I understood from him that no other decision makers were needed and that they were eager to proceed.

I left the July 31st meeting with no question that a deal with the Saudi sovereign fund could be closed, and that it was just a matter of getting the process moving. This is why I referred to “funding secured” in the August 7th announcement.

LockheedBBD · Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:39 am

VTKillarney wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Revelation wrote:
I think it is viewed as a giant status symbol among nerds, especially those with money in the bank, and eco-friendly people too. I'm not so sure how much further it extends. Let me know when the A-listers are embracing it in a very public way..

I would add "pretend" nerds. Anyone with deep knowledge in Automotive (or) Artificial Intelligence (or) Finance would never buy these vehicles. They are not worth the money, AI can kill you and resale value will be next to nothing.

There are million other ways to spend money in the bank and save the earth.

Their reliability is horrible. Now the Model 3 is being made in a tent.

Saudi Arabia has lots of tents, perhaps it's a test run for manufacturing Tesla's in the KSA.

JJJ · Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:09 am

LockheedBBD wrote:
Saudi Arabia is interested in taking Tesla private.

So Musk intends to become a big oil shill?

The irony.

Revelation · Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:33 pm

JJJ wrote:
LockheedBBD wrote:
Saudi Arabia is interested in taking Tesla private.

So Musk intends to become a big oil shill?

The irony.

Guess you didn't read the tesla.com posting?

KSA is very interested in Tesla as a hedge for the post-oil era.

They're sitting on a pile of cash after several generations living high off the hog due to oil.

Makes sense to me for them to use some of that cash to buy into an advanced electric car and battery maker.

So if anything he's becoming an end-of-big-oil shill, but he's been that all along.

Tugger · Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:27 pm

Revelation wrote:
Aesma wrote:
Pissed off short seller doesn't make sense. If you're short selling then you're happy to see the stock go down, not pissed off.

Yeah, but TFA said it went up:

The stock had been worth about $342 a share before Musk's tweet, and shares quickly jumped as high as $371.

And I just looked and it's still at $370.

And overall, as quoted above:

The rally after Musk’s tweet unleashed fresh pain for short-sellers in Tesla, the most shorted U.S. stock.

With shares at $369.90, short-sellers logged an on-paper loss of $977 million, according to financial analytics firm S3 partners.

Short-sellers, who had been saddled with sharp losses earlier this month after Tesla shares soared following quarterly results, were now $2.69 billion in the red for the year, according to S3 data.

And importantly for the shorts, taking it private will lock in the loss. They would need to cash out their position or basically go "all in" at the buy out value and be part of the private company. And in that situation shorts don't work.

Tugg

Revelation · Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:09 pm

Tugger wrote:
And importantly for the shorts, taking it private will lock in the loss. They would need to cash out their position or basically go "all in" at the buy out value and be part of the private company. And in that situation shorts don't work.

Musk seems to be showing what can happen to short sellers if they get too aggressive.

In essence he's calling their bluff.

Of course he's fortunate to have so much hype behind his brand that he can convince some of the wealthiest financial entities in the world to support him.

In the end, as much as some love to hate him, I think the world is a better place with him in it.

He's being disruptive, and that has angered many, but this is the kind of disruption the world needs.

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