Why do people keep moving to California?

Jouhou · Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:54 pm

https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC/status/1 ... 4419047425

Senator Burr, I didn't know you were an aviation enthusiast! (Its a weird coincidence he references a really old meme that I just dug back up)

WarRI1 · Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:31 am

Revelation wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Not me, too many people to deal with.

"Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." -- Yogi Berra.

I've visited various places (mostly SFO city and surrounding Bay area, SJC and SAN) and it's nice but I wouldn't want to live there.

Quite crowded, very heavy traffic, very expensive housing, high taxes, lack of natural rainfall much of the year, etc.

On the up side, lots of interesting things to do, and general but not universal liberal approach to lifestyle choices.

Therefore I'll stay a visitor, not a resident.

I agree, a great place to visit, not to stay. I have enjoyed my temporary visits for sure.

Super80Fan · Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:22 am

California is a fantastic place to visit, would never live there however/get a job there. Crowded, heavy traffic, expensive in all regards, and earthquakes/wildfires. Visited many times and can't wait to go back but the only way I'd live there is if every other state became uninhabitable.

DL717 · Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:52 am

wingman wrote:
DL717 wrote:
California is well on its way to not having a middle class at all. The uber rich and those that serve them. The rich will be taxed to pay for the needs of the poor until it breaks. It'll be a nice place to visit, but you won't want to live there.

This has been happening nationwide for decades, and is now accelerating. At least California makes an attempt at lifting the less
fortunate up. Doesn't always work but Christ knows they spend the money trying.

There are plenty of places in this country where the middle class goes on about their lives. Slower paced, quiet and enjoyable. Can’t say the same for heavily populated areas of the country.

bagoldex · Thu Aug 02, 2018 3:27 am

DL717 wrote:
wingman wrote:
DL717 wrote:
California is well on its way to not having a middle class at all. The uber rich and those that serve them. The rich will be taxed to pay for the needs of the poor until it breaks. It'll be a nice place to visit, but you won't want to live there.

This has been happening nationwide for decades, and is now accelerating. At least California makes an attempt at lifting the less
fortunate up. Doesn't always work but Christ knows they spend the money trying.

There are plenty of places in this country where the middle class goes on about their lives. Slower paced, quiet and enjoyable. Can’t say the same for heavily populated areas of the country.

That sounds dreadfully mundane. Depressing actually.

No wonder those places have no economies and depend on the largesse of taxpayers in New York, California and other large and prosperous states to support them.

Pi7472000 · Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:27 pm

I used to love San Francisco. Now BART is awful, the city is rude and filled with overpaid tech workers who have pushed out the middle class.

SFO has losts much of its diversity that made it so amazing. I also have never liked the bitterly cold ocean of CA. I still love Oakland and Alameda as i can take the ferry to work.

I have been paid 2000 a month for a junky one bedroom by the home depot in emeryville and now rent was raised by another 1000 a month to 3000.

Luckily I got a job in Hawaii and have the opportunity to leave iverpriced SFO and finally live by a warm ocean where i dont need a wetsuit haha. It is a great city for the wealthy or those who have had rent control for years, but even making 6 figures you feel poor. I would recommend Sacramento for Northern CA as the people are friendly, it is diversifying and much more friendly to those of all economic incomes. We need true socialits to actually fix the issues in this state.

VTKillarney · Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:21 pm

I know many people who have moved to urban areas of California. They all regret doing so.

If you have to be in a city, there are better options.

bagoldex · Thu Aug 02, 2018 5:42 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
I know many people who have moved to urban areas of California. They all regret doing so.

If you have to be in a city, there are better options.

From an urban living perspective what's better than San Francisco? New York? That's about it.

VTKillarney · Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:10 pm

bagoldex wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
I know many people who have moved to urban areas of California. They all regret doing so.

If you have to be in a city, there are better options.

From an urban living perspective what's better than San Francisco? New York? That's about it.

We clearly have different criteria. Among my urban dweller friends, the ones who live in mid-tier cities are by far the happiest.

2122M · Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:19 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
I know many people who have moved to urban areas of California. They all regret doing so.

Source?

dfwjim1 · Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:22 pm

Pi7472000 wrote:
I used to love San Francisco. Now BART is awful, the city is rude and filled with overpaid tech workers who have pushed out the middle class.

SFO has losts much of its diversity that made it so amazing. I also have never liked the bitterly cold ocean of CA. I still love Oakland and Alameda as i can take the ferry to work.

I have been paid 2000 a month for a junky one bedroom by the home depot in emeryville and now rent was raised by another 1000 a month to 3000.

Luckily I got a job in Hawaii and have the opportunity to leave iverpriced SFO and finally live by a warm

ocean where i dont need a wetsuit haha. It is a great city for the wealthy or those who have had rent control for years, but even making 6 figures you feel poor. I would recommend Sacramento for Northern CA as the people are friendly, it is diversifying and much more friendly to those of all economic incomes. We need true socialits to actually fix the issues in this state.

I grew up in San Francisco and eventually moved out of state due to job responsibilities. Now when I visit the City I am astonished as to how dirty many sections of town have become.

bagoldex · Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:37 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
I know many people who have moved to urban areas of California. They all regret doing so.

If you have to be in a city, there are better options.

From an urban living perspective what's better than San Francisco? New York? That's about it.

We clearly have different criteria. Among my urban dweller friends, the ones who live in mid-tier cities are by far the happiest.

Examples?

VTKillarney · Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:38 pm

bagoldex wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
bagoldex wrote:

From an urban living perspective what's better than San Francisco? New York? That's about it.

We clearly have different criteria. Among my urban dweller friends, the ones who live in mid-tier cities are by far the happiest.

Examples?

You want the name of my friends? That's creepy.

casinterest · Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:41 pm

bagoldex wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
bagoldex wrote:

From an urban living perspective what's better than San Francisco? New York? That's about it.

We clearly have different criteria. Among my urban dweller friends, the ones who live in mid-tier cities are by far the happiest.

Examples?

https://www.businessinsider.com/best-ci ... ive-2016-5

Mind you 2 california cities, San Jose and San Francisco top this list, but the other Metros have MUCH MUCH cheaper housing.

EA CO AS · Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:47 pm

Can those of you who live in CA keep convincing your fellow Californians of how awesome it is, please? They keep relocating to AZ and are screwing up my state.

bagoldex · Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:55 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Can those of you who live in CA keep convincing your fellow Californians of how awesome it is, please? They keep relocating to AZ and are screwing up my state.

Puh-lease. If it wasn't for Florida I'd say that Arizona couldn't get any worse.

EA CO AS · Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:33 pm

bagoldex wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Can those of you who live in CA keep convincing your fellow Californians of how awesome it is, please? They keep relocating to AZ and are screwing up my state.

Puh-lease. If it wasn't for Florida I'd say that Arizona couldn't get any worse.

Arizona gets worse with each Californian relocating here.

VTKillarney · Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:35 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Can those of you who live in CA keep convincing your fellow Californians of how awesome it is, please? They keep relocating to AZ and are screwing up my state.

Puh-lease. If it wasn't for Florida I'd say that Arizona couldn't get any worse.

Arizona gets worse with each Californian relocating here.

Same with Montana.

Tugger · Thu Aug 02, 2018 10:30 pm

I always laugh at how many people seem to complain about California but then realize that it has more impact and effect on the USA than any other state. None can equal it. Great states all but California is a big'un!

And of course for all the wondering and questions and complaints it just keeps on being a very (overly) popular state. People keep coming, companies keep growing (cue the "their all leaving" chorus), and the state keeps prospering. Lots of problems to solve of course, and a bunch of legislators that need to be booted, but fortunately California controls a huge vital coastline and has a lot of natural and human resource that no other state can really match.

I enjoy living here, though I also understand that some people who are here would like to leave. But if they did I bet a similar number would then arrive because for a lot of people around the USA and the world, California is where they would prefer to be. California is almost more of a destination state for people but with a 40M strong state population we generate a lot of people that then leave.

:praise:

Tugg

stratosphere · Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:25 pm

Tugger wrote:
I always laugh at how many people seem to complain about California but then realize that it has more impact and effect on the USA than any other state. None can equal it. Great states all but California is a big'un!

And of course for all the wondering and questions and complaints it just keeps on being a very (overly) popular state. People keep coming, companies keep growing (cue the "their all leaving" chorus), and the state keeps prospering. Lots of problems to solve of course, and a bunch of legislators that need to be booted, but fortunately California controls a huge vital coastline and has a lot of natural and human resource that no other state can really match.

I enjoy living here, though I also understand that some people who are here would like to leave. But if they did I bet a similar number would then arrive because for a lot of people around the USA and the world, California is where they would prefer to be. California is almost more of a destination state for people but with a 40M strong state population we generate a lot of people that then leave.

Tugg

I have been to California many times there are some really beautiful areas of Cali my cousin lives in San Bruno but he has lived all over the state and bought a lot of properties in the early 70's and is pretty much a millionaire property wise even though he is a modest engineer for PG@E. I am from NJ and a lot of people don't know it but there are beautiful areas of NJ as well. But for the same reason I would never live in NJ again is the same reason I would never live in Cali. Too much traffic, property values and taxes are too high for the average person to obtain and in the case of Cali gas is too high and taxed too much. It's been a lot of years since I have been to San Francisco but I have heard it is becoming a cesspool with homeless and crap in the streets literally. I remember when NYC was like this and for better or for worse Rudy Giuliani really cleaned up that city I remember the before and after and this cannot be disputed.

NeBaNi · Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:37 pm

I cannot believe this is an aviation forum and no one has said this: the absolute spotter's paradise that is LAX (and to a lesser extent, SFO). It feels amazing to live a stone's throw away from LAX and be able to go see all the aircraft coming in to land! Everything from A380s to Cessna Caravans

BN747 · Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:44 am

EA CO AS wrote:
Can those of you who live in CA keep convincing your fellow Californians of how awesome it is, please? They keep relocating to AZ and are screwing up my state.

Hmmm, the state flag should be BROWN....period.

The Mountains are BROWN.
The ground and dwellings are BROWN.
The sphere where land meets sky is BROWN.
A extremely large number of the people are BROWN.

...and the recent and current trends of the None-BROWNs are unloading major dosages of HATE on those that fit the terrain perfectly, the BROWN peeps there. And someone dares to complain about any Cali people coming there? The only true reason any Californian leaving CA. to live in the BROWN state are the Californians who just can’t make it work here, which is perfectly okay. The UP side of that transition is the fusion of more open minded people leveling out the pervasive residential boxed-in mindsets.

Actually, over in Santa Monica last week, I encountered a couple that HAD to be from Arkansas or Tennessee or some place ponder which direction they should venture next...all the while, the bf was spitting that ‘chew’ crap all over the sidewalk every 3 seconds. More annoying was that southern hillbilly twang that laced every spoken word. My pouch and I held back and waited for the next crossing cycle to continue our stroll...all along thinking, yea they should have stopped in Arizona and come no further, they would have been right at home.

bagoldex wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
bagoldex wrote:

Examples?

You want the name of my friends? That's creepy.

No, silly. I know you don't have any friends. We all know. What I want to know is which mid-tier cities these alleged people are happiest in.

Spot

On

BN747

bagoldex · Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:51 am

VTKillarney wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
bagoldex wrote:

Puh-lease. If it wasn't for Florida I'd say that Arizona couldn't get any worse.

Arizona gets worse with each Californian relocating here.

Same with Montana.

Which "mid-tier cities" do your "friends" like best? I'm sure you don't want to answer like when I asked earlier and you'll complain to the mods(maybe you are a mod just trolling to keep page views up) but why not play ball?

DL717 · Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:07 am

bagoldex wrote:
That sounds dreadfully mundane. Depressing actually.

No wonder those places have no economies and depend on the largesse of taxpayers in New York, California and other large and prosperous states to support them.

You should get out of the city more often. Cities cause stress. Stress causes depression.

BN747 · Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:34 am

DL717 wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
That sounds dreadfully mundane. Depressing actually.

No wonder those places have no economies and depend on the largesse of taxpayers in New York, California and other large and prosperous states to support them.

You should get out of the city more often. Cities cause stress. Stress causes depression.

Not if you're of the 21st Century mindset, you can handle it...cities are only stressful to those scared of their own shadows and anything not a farm animal...esp other humans.

BN747

DL717 · Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:45 am

BN747 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
That sounds dreadfully mundane. Depressing actually.

No wonder those places have no economies and depend on the largesse of taxpayers in New York, California and other large and prosperous states to support them.

You should get out of the city more often. Cities cause stress. Stress causes depression.

Not if you're of the 21st Century mindset, you can handle it...cities are only stressful to those scared of their own shadows and anything not a farm animal...esp other humans.

BN747

Had a high stress job in the city my entire working life. Retired and won’t even consider looking back. Too much to enjoy being away from it. People in the city don’t know what they don’t know. I certainly didn’t until I left.

EA CO AS · Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:42 am

BN747 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Can those of you who live in CA keep convincing your fellow Californians of how awesome it is, please? They keep relocating to AZ and are screwing up my state.

Hmmm, the state flag should be BROWN....period.

The Mountains are BROWN.
The ground and dwellings are BROWN.
The sphere where land meets sky is BROWN.
A extremely large number of the people are BROWN.

...and the recent and current trends of the None-BROWNs are unloading major dosages of HATE on those that fit the terrain perfectly, the BROWN peeps there.

As a BROWN resident of the State of Arizona, I couldn't care less what color someone happens to be, provided they're here legally.

Oh, and that they're not trying to convert my state into "California East" - we don't need that level of dysfunction here, thanks.

Jouhou · Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:56 am

EA CO AS wrote:
BN747 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Can those of you who live in CA keep convincing your fellow Californians of how awesome it is, please? They keep relocating to AZ and are screwing up my state.

Hmmm, the state flag should be BROWN....period.

The Mountains are BROWN.
The ground and dwellings are BROWN.
The sphere where land meets sky is BROWN.
A extremely large number of the people are BROWN.

...and the recent and current trends of the None-BROWNs are unloading major dosages of HATE on those that fit the terrain perfectly, the BROWN peeps there.

As a BROWN resident of the State of Arizona, I couldn't care less what color someone happens to be, provided they're here legally.

Oh, and that they're not trying to convert my state into "California East" - we don't need that level of dysfunction here, thanks.

Is this like a code word or something? Are you all Brown University alumni?

Flighty · Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:54 pm

bagoldex wrote:
DL717 wrote:
wingman wrote:

This has been happening nationwide for decades, and is now accelerating. At least California makes an attempt at lifting the less
fortunate up. Doesn't always work but Christ knows they spend the money trying.

There are plenty of places in this country where the middle class goes on about their lives. Slower paced, quiet and enjoyable. Can’t say the same for heavily populated areas of the country.

That sounds dreadfully mundane. Depressing actually.

No wonder those places have no economies and depend on the largesse of taxpayers in New York, California and other large and prosperous states to support them.

Mundane is actually a big step up compared to living in a rat infested tenement with criminals, never owning a car or a home, dealing with long commutes if you do have a car etc. That is what a middle class income will buy you in a rich-dominated area. A lot of people like a slower pace and being in control of your life and property, especially people over 40. And it is (hopefully) a fallacy to judge people over 40 as if it won't apply to you.

Fortunately, we have a nice big country with many places to choose from.

VTKillarney · Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:38 pm

BN747 wrote:
DL717 wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
That sounds dreadfully mundane. Depressing actually.

No wonder those places have no economies and depend on the largesse of taxpayers in New York, California and other large and prosperous states to support them.

You should get out of the city more often. Cities cause stress. Stress causes depression.

Not if you're of the 21st Century mindset, you can handle it...cities are only stressful to those scared of their own shadows and anything not a farm animal...esp other humans.

BN747

From Psychology Today:
"Studies have suggested that city living is associated with increased rates of depression, anxiety, and psychosis, with 39% more mood disorders and 21% more anxiety disorders."

From the National Bureau of Economic Research:
"Their chief finding is a striking association between population density — the concentration of people in a given area — and happiness. When the researchers ranked all 1,215 communities by average happiness, they found that average population density in the 20 percent most miserable communities was more than eight times greater than in the happiest 20 percent of communities.

“Life is significantly less happy in urban areas,” the paper concluded."

luckyone · Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:47 pm

Shouldn't we also be considering that there are only so many places where it is actually feasible, or desirable, to live in California without significant structural intervention? The Bay area is constricted by water and topography. In the case of LA, we can argue the merits of putting a metropolis of about 20 million people in a relatively thin strip of desert wasteland land between the ocean and the mountains that requires diverting rivers hundreds of miles away, but the fact of the matter is that's what we have. Desirable, habitable places are just harder to come by. There's also market factors here (supply vs. demand), so basically if enough people start to live anywhere, you reach a critical mass and the cost goes up. My hometown of Atlanta is experiencing this, wherein now the metro area has basically maxed out how far out it can go before people are having to endure 90+ minute commutes, while I just shake my head and say I told you so as my WASPy community kept moving to the fringes of development to escape the icky people, all the while demanding the benefits of a retail environment (restaurants, grocery stores, shopping malls, etc) that only supports low paying jobs, usually filled by more icky people who move in to take the jobs, and the cycle repeats. As such, property values are skyrocketing (relative to what they were).

DL717 wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
That sounds dreadfully mundane. Depressing actually.

No wonder those places have no economies and depend on the largesse of taxpayers in New York, California and other large and prosperous states to support them.

You should get out of the city more often. Cities cause stress. Stress causes depression.

My point of view is equally valid to yours, and as such. I'll add my story. I grew up in the homogeneous suburbs of Atlanta, and right now you could not pay me enough money to live in a place like that ever again. I lived in rural Middle (never again) and North Georgia, which I would be fine with. I lived in urban Miami, and on the Chicago lakefront just north of the city's downtown. My stress level, happiness, and career all improved when I moved into the city. Of course that is your point of view...and if that works for you, great. But that is not a universal statement. Some people enjoy activity and the rhythm of living life in a city. I walk a lot more, which is a lot healthier than driving everywhere--a big reason our obesity rate started to increase when we moved out of the cities. I personally love being able to walk across the street to a grocery store if I ran out of eggs. I love being able to walk 5-6 blocks and have 25 restaurants where I can meet my friends for dinner, and not have to worry about my car, or not having that second beer and because I have to drive. When I visit my brother in Forsyth County, GA, it takes fifteen minutes of driving just to weave through all the subdivisions before you reach a Walgreens. I love being able to hide in plain sight if I want to, because there's enough of us that we're all doing our own thing and we've learned how to stay out of each other's way if we need to, but we're all right there when we're ready to engage. Because I do a lot of my living in the city, I don't need as large a living space, which I'm fine with because it's cheaper and means less time cleaning/maintaining it for me. When I realized that we had entire rooms that were used maybe twice a year in the house I grew up in, and how much time as I kid I spent helping the family with yardwork just to maintain that really large lawn that everybody just looks at--I'm not counting flowers/gardening--or the amount of time required to keep that really long driveway free of wet leaves in the fall and winter so you can get out of your driveway, I was shocked. I love that I don't have to drive everywhere, which makes my car last longer, means I pay less on gas and wear and tire items on my car, and I spend less time walking across dreary, heat-reflective, steaming blacktop--that may sound silly until you've had to park at the back of a Walmart parking lot in Georgia in the middle of July, or get into a car that's been baking in said heat for hours. So for that, I'll pay a bit more. It's not as much as you think when ALL your expenses are tallied.

Isolation comes with its own problems, healthcare being a significant one. Montana has the highest suicide rate in the country, for example, and access to care is a major problem. For the record I've been to Montana, and love it. I work in healthcare, and the largest health care centers in Montana are in Billings and Great Falls. Should I choose to work there, I'd get paid much better than if I lived in Chicago because I need significantly more incentive to work there for my own personal reasons. There comes a point when that extra dollar doesn't do me much good when I'm relatively isolated on a frozen prairie for four months, and have to pay higher air fares to get out of it, etc etc. It's about what you want. So live your best life in Montana, because I get it. I can also get why people enjoy living in California.

luckyone · Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:52 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
BN747 wrote:
DL717 wrote:

You should get out of the city more often. Cities cause stress. Stress causes depression.

Not if you're of the 21st Century mindset, you can handle it...cities are only stressful to those scared of their own shadows and anything not a farm animal...esp other humans.

BN747

From Psychology Today:
"Studies have suggested that city living is associated with increased rates of depression, anxiety, and psychosis, with 39% more mood disorders and 21% more anxiety disorders."

From the National Bureau of Economic Research:
"Their chief finding is a striking association between population density — the concentration of people in a given area — and happiness. When the researchers ranked all 1,215 communities by average happiness, they found that average population density in the 20 percent most miserable communities was more than eight times greater than in the happiest 20 percent of communities.

“Life is significantly less happy in urban areas,” the paper concluded."

Could you please reference that paper? I'd be curious to see if the study factored in things like socioeconomic status, which is most certainly associated with mental health, and which tends to have a much wider spread in urban areas, than smaller areas, which tend to be more homogeneous in terms of SES. There's also a confounder there, in that people with the mental illness listed there will gravitate toward areas where they can receive care.

BN747 · Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:04 pm

Jouhou wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
BN747 wrote:

Hmmm, the state flag should be BROWN....period.

The Mountains are BROWN.
The ground and dwellings are BROWN.
The sphere where land meets sky is BROWN.
A extremely large number of the people are BROWN.

...and the recent and current trends of the None-BROWNs are unloading major dosages of HATE on those that fit the terrain perfectly, the BROWN peeps there.

As a BROWN resident of the State of Arizona, I couldn't care less what color someone happens to be, provided they're here legally.

Oh, and that they're not trying to convert my state into "California East" - we don't need that level of dysfunction here, thanks.

Is this like a code word or something? Are you all Brown University alumni?

Yes, point being is that a great number of the people in Arizona are Latinos, and I was addressing the unjust and heinous treatment of Latino-Americans in the state. Apparently the person claiming to be a BROWN one is stating he is a conservative BROWN Latino that’s happy with the state and resents the more advanced state of affairs (race relations) that is California and prefers the current attitudes of Arizona. Which is kinda like the gays who embrace Conservatives/Republican doctrine. They call it ‘free thinking’ whereas the majority portions of every minority group frowns upon those very rare and few numbers of their ranks that support their oppressors and enablers. It’s a weird phenomenon that harkens back centuries to days of the most brutal and darkest days of American history (though much of what thrives in the ‘Make America Great Again’ mentality which of course is a very un-California attitude.

BN747

luckyone · Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:09 pm

Flighty wrote:
bagoldex wrote:
DL717 wrote:

There are plenty of places in this country where the middle class goes on about their lives. Slower paced, quiet and enjoyable. Can’t say the same for heavily populated areas of the country.

That sounds dreadfully mundane. Depressing actually.

No wonder those places have no economies and depend on the largesse of taxpayers in New York, California and other large and prosperous states to support them.

Mundane is actually a big step up compared to living in a rat infested tenement with criminals, never owning a car or a home, dealing with long commutes if you do have a car etc. That is what a middle class income will buy you in a rich-dominated area. A lot of people like a slower pace and being in control of your life and property, especially people over 40. And it is (hopefully) a fallacy to judge people over 40 as if it won't apply to you.

Fortunately, we have a nice big country with many places to choose from.

All of those things are also readily encountered in rural areas. Another personal anecdote, take it as such, no more no less. I parked my car on the streets of Chicago for years, never had it touched--and I drive a Volvo, which isn't the most expensive car in the world but it's not a Yugo. Even accidentally left my wallet in it, unlocked one night after a very long shift in the ER, and it was fine. I've dropped my wallet on the streets of Chicago, only to have it returned to my address, untouched. Growing up, my family's home in an upper middle class area of suburban Atlanta was vandalized more than once. Our yard was flooded, and damaged by people digging it up and leaving a hose on while we were on vacation, my father's and my cars were egged, my father's car was broken into, and another time my father's wallet was lifted out of his car, in halcyon rural North Georgia. There are crack dens in Chicago. There was a meth lab less than a mile from where I lived in North Georgia. Poverty and low lifes know no geographic bounds.

Tugger · Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:13 pm

stratosphere wrote:
I have been to California many times there are some really beautiful areas of Cali my cousin lives in San Bruno but he has lived all over the state and bought a lot of properties in the early 70's and is pretty much a millionaire property wise even though he is a modest engineer for PG@E. I am from NJ and a lot of people don't know it but there are beautiful areas of NJ as well. But for the same reason I would never live in NJ again is the same reason I would never live in Cali. Too much traffic, property values and taxes are too high for the average person to obtain and in the case of Cali gas is too high and taxed too much. It's been a lot of years since I have been to San Francisco but I have heard it is becoming a cesspool with homeless and crap in the streets literally. I remember when NYC was like this and for better or for worse Rudy Giuliani really cleaned up that city I remember the before and after and this cannot be disputed.

Can't argue, nor would I want too. California is not for everyone nor should it be nor does it have to be.

Flighty wrote:
Fortunately, we have a nice big country with many places to choose from.

I think most people enjoy where they live enough but some people seem to enjoy complaining about where others live more.

Live where you want, enjoy living there. That really should be enough.

Tugg

VTKillarney · Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:38 pm

luckyone wrote:
Could you please reference that paper?

http://www.nber.org/papers/w24592

luckyone · Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:45 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
luckyone wrote:
Could you please reference that paper?

http://www.nber.org/papers/w24592

thanks. Unfortunately the article itself is behind a paywall, so I'll have to see if I can find a way around that.

Pellegrine · Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:03 am

California is like utopia. And California isn't just LA and SF.

Jouhou · Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:31 am

Pellegrine wrote:
California is like utopia. And California isn't just LA and SF.

However my point still stands, your utopia is on fire. I'm surprised people don't live in fireproof underground bunkers for houses there.

DL717 · Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:23 pm

Pellegrine wrote:
California is like utopia. And California isn't just LA and SF.

California is overrated, as someone born and raised there, I’m allowed to say that. It’s also a dumpster fire of debt waiting to happen. Tick-Tock...

vikkyvik · Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:37 pm

This thread is equal parts funny and depressing.

I hate how some people will bash anything and everything CA.

I hate how some people are blindly pro-CA.

As someone who grew up in elsewhere and moved to SoCal, there is good and bad here. I'm fairly neutral on the matter - I don't hate the state or love it. I'd love to move back east, but it ain't happening, and there would be pluses and minuses to that as well.

Also, CA is so huge and so diverse that really, it's impossible to narrow it down to a select few attributes.

P1aneMad · Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:57 pm

As far as I remember Americans are moving OUT of California and economic migrants from third world countries were the ones that were moving in.
Did something change and that's why the OP is wondering?

VTKillarney · Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:23 am

Um... Wildfires in the South are nothing like in California. Not even close.

trpmb6 · Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:31 pm

Wildfires are completely natural and happen in every state in the union.

Look up the Hinckley Fire in Minnesota that happened in the 1890's because of terrible logging practices.

Or the Anderson Creek wildfire in Oklahoma-Kansas - That one covered more land area than any of the biggest wildfires (continuous acreage) in California to date.

Even Florida has had its fair share of large wild fires.

Some of the biggest wild fires happened in the 1800's. Who knew how big they could have been before people began recording such events in canada and USA. Our own recorded history suggests that these wild fires are a regular occurrence in these areas, and have nothing to do with climate change. If anything we've made problems worse by not allowing small wild fires to burn in their regular process and snuffing them out prematurely. Under brush needs to be cleared out and conservation agencies need to be practicing better management by doing managed burns. Missouri does this already in the mark twain national forest and hasn't seen a large wild fire in quite some time. Logging companies have gotten better about how they handle their "waste / Byproducts" of cutting limbs etc during logging. (That was a big source of the problem in the Hinckley MN fire)

DL717 · Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:17 pm

P1aneMad wrote:
As far as I remember Americans are moving OUT of California and economic migrants from third world countries were the ones that were moving in.
Did something change and that's why the OP is wondering?

The middle class is bailing. Two class system coming right up...The wealthy, and those who serve them.

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2018/mar/15/c ... states-im/

treetreeseven · Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:17 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
Can those of you who live in CA keep convincing your fellow Californians of how awesome it is, please? They keep relocating to AZ and are screwing up my state.

Also Oregon. "Go back to California" graffiti is not an isolated incident around here any more.

LockheedBBD · Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:23 pm

treetreeseven wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Can those of you who live in CA keep convincing your fellow Californians of how awesome it is, please? They keep relocating to AZ and are screwing up my state.

Also Oregon. "Go back to California" graffiti is not an isolated incident around here any more.

I prefer Portland Oregon over Los Angeles any day. Better quality of living IMO.

treetreeseven · Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:39 pm

I've lived in California a couple times and now I live in a mid-tier city elsewhere. After bouncing around plenty in my life I've come to the conclusion that my sweet spot is either a mid-tier city with a lot of culture, or small town / rural as long as I have a good support system.

I'd happily live in some parts of California north of Santa Rosa or so, if some other preconditions were met / if I had a reason to live there. But right now the Pacific Northwest has a lot more going for it, for me.

I'm also one of those who wouldn't be caught dead in a ticky-tacky box in the suburbs anywhere. I have to strongly echo the poster who mentioned the upsides of urban living. I haven't owned a car in years, because I can choose between my own two feet, the bus, the train, three carsharing fleets, a taxi, Lyft, Uber if they ever clean up their act, or as of a month ago even an electric scooter I can rent with my phone. I went out for a walk in the heat last night (which, yes, is aggravating our little west coast fire problem) and found myself at first peeved when I was hungry at midnight and the pubs near my house were closed down and I was more than 8 blocks from a convenience store. Then I had a laugh at myself, counted my blessings, and went home and ate a can of beans.

I have a friends who live (or increasingly, lived) in the Bay Area. They are absolutely appalled at what the techbro tsunami has done to the place. Apart from the huge west coast problem of inequality and homelessness, long timers describe it as a cultural dead zone compared to what it used to be (which, it's worth noting, is still a hell of a lot more full of things to see and do than a lot of other places, techbro tide or no).

Personally, there are zero mid-tier cities in California that interest me, and any interest I had in the Bay Area evaporated years ago. If I were to move to California entirely as a free choice with no constraints I'd be more interested in weird northern towns like Arcata or even Eureka. But now that I've lived in the west for over a decade I'm absolutely unwilling to compromise on easy access to the outdoors.

treetreeseven · Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:46 pm

LockheedBBD wrote:
treetreeseven wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
Can those of you who live in CA keep convincing your fellow Californians of how awesome it is, please? They keep relocating to AZ and are screwing up my state.

Also Oregon. "Go back to California" graffiti is not an isolated incident around here any more.

I prefer Portland Oregon over Los Angeles any day. Better quality of living IMO.

Same. I boggle at the folks who are insisting parts of LA are the best place on Earth. But people like the places they do for their own reasons.

One commenter in LA noted being able to go to the beach any day at the drop of a hat. Me, I don't care about the beach much and I'm far happier having the ability to go surround myself with deep forest at the drop of a hat.

People love the weather in socal, except when they don't. I start melting at any temperature above 85F and think ideal yard work weather is 55F and overcast. There are many people who think that's crazy talk because their bodies are different.

Same also with cultural differences. I VASTLY prefer northwest culture - with its downsides, and there are downsides - to socal culture.

So it goes. The best thing for all of us to remember if we love where we live is that we're lucky to be able to be there. Many people are not so fortunate.

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