Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Richard28 wrote:Dutchy wrote:Britain would be welcomed into the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal with "open arms" after it leaves the EU, Japan's prime minister has said.
While the UK would lose its role as a gateway to Europe after Brexit, it would retain its "global strength", Shinzo Abe told the Financial Times
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-45780889
Some good news I guess. Joining a trade block on the other side of the world instead of your neighbors.
Although like most things the devil is in the detail.
The EU already has trade agreements with most of TPP, with only Brunei and Peru having no agreements in place.
So in effect, by this measure the UK would prefer trade deals with Brunei and Peru over Germany, France, Spain Italy, Sweden, etc etc
all a bit bonkers, and certainly not "going global"
Dutchy wrote:Yes, but that means Brexit, not having the most favorable trade deal with neighbors, instead of having trade deals with countries far away at far less favorable terms. Nobody did explain it properly what the economic benefits will be from Brexit. Other then rhetoric: we want to be ruled from London, instead of Brussels.
Richard28 wrote:results will be more bureaucracy, more paperwork, more barriers and more tariffs resulting in higher prices.
It has been condemned by experts and divided the country. Now Brexit has been officially given the royal seal of disapproval – albeit by a Dutch monarch from his palace in The Hague.
blrsea wrote:Looks like Theresa May will reveal her plans only to EU first even before debating among her cabinet or to the UK parliament. Will be done only after EU leaders approve it. How democratic! Yeah, the parliament has control, right!
MPs may not see Theresa May’s fresh Brexit plans before she asks EU leaders to agree to them, Downing Street admits
blrsea wrote:Looks like Theresa May will reveal her plans only to EU first even before debating among her cabinet or to the UK parliament. Will be done only after EU leaders approve it. How democratic! Yeah, the parliament has control, right!
MPs may not see Theresa May’s fresh Brexit plans before she asks EU leaders to agree to them, Downing Street admits
frmrCapCadet wrote:It is likely that a majority of Tory and a majority of Labor very much prefer a very soft Brexit.
Richard28 wrote:frmrCapCadet wrote:It is likely that a majority of Tory and a majority of Labor very much prefer a very soft Brexit.
This is possibly true, but will the Chequers 2.0 deal be "soft"?
I guess it will inevitably be softer than version 1.0 (hence its being kept secret), but the issues of Northern Ireland, customs issues, lack of deal in Services (80% of UK economy) and many more still need to be resolved.... how far will Theresa May go?
frmrCapCadet wrote:I have had some assumption regarding the whole of Ireland. Are they generally correct?
Irish north and south have always had preferable access to GB.
Even if GB Brexits North Ireland people will, by virtue of possible ROI passport have full access to the EU
NI remaining in the EU customs area will mean no real change in day to day living
It is possible that customs between all of the Irish Island and the rest of GB could be sufficiently manned to be tolerably quick
If that generally is true North Ireland would somewhat be in the cat's seat. Somewhat with free access to all of Ireland, GB, and the EU.
frmrCapCadet wrote:North Ireland would somewhat be in the cat's seat. Somewhat with free access to all of Ireland, GB, and the EU.
sabenapilot wrote:With a CU between the EU and the UK, the talk of own British trade deals can be put to rest for good as well and the question returns why on earth Britain would exit the SM then, as that is the tool to give it unlimited access to the European markets and also the rest of the world via easy use of its trade deals....
Richard28 wrote:Many UK politicians see leaving the single market and dropping of freedom of movement and suffering the economic fallout as a price they are willing to pay.... they are just not willing to let the British people have a say on this matter as they think they have a mandate for it....)
tommy1808 wrote:[
I find it fascinating how openly UK politician can promote removing a hell lot of rights from their citizens without being strung up on the next tree.
tommy1808 wrote:I find it fascinating how openly UK politician can promote removing a hell lot of rights from their citizens without being strung up on the next tree.
Best regards
Thomas
ChrisKen wrote:Pretty easy when those on both sides of the house have been using the EU scapegoat for decades to hide the flaws in our own legislation.
sabenapilot wrote:frmrCapCadet wrote:North Ireland would somewhat be in the cat's seat. Somewhat with free access to all of Ireland, GB, and the EU.
Indeed, IF the EU's proposal is accepted by the UK, THEN NI would effectively get the best of both worlds so to say, and all FOR FREE too, since the EU would not charge any contributions for the benefits offered. It made this offer only to safeguard the Good Friday Agreement and to sit with the Republic of Ireland, who's an EU member and officially sees NI as a potential future territory of theirs.
The EU has however made it repeatedly clear this extremely generous offer to NI is not available to the rest of Britain.
tommy1808 wrote:Richard28 wrote:Many UK politicians see leaving the single market and dropping of freedom of movement and suffering the economic fallout as a price they are willing to pay.... they are just not willing to let the British people have a say on this matter as they think they have a mandate for it....)
I find it fascinating how openly UK politician can promote removing a hell lot of rights from their citizens without being strung up on the next tree.
Best regards
Thomas
seahawk wrote:Exactly, Brexiteers do not want to live in foreign countries, they want the foreigners out of their country.
noviorbis77 wrote:tommy1808 wrote:Richard28 wrote:Many UK politicians see leaving the single market and dropping of freedom of movement and suffering the economic fallout as a price they are willing to pay.... they are just not willing to let the British people have a say on this matter as they think they have a mandate for it....)
I find it fascinating how openly UK politician can promote removing a hell lot of rights from their citizens without being strung up on the next tree.
Best regards
Thomas
Probably because most people in thr UK couldn’t get a flying fig about free movement rights being eroded.
I, and many others, would have no interest in living in Germany, Romania, Bulgaria etc.
noviorbis77 wrote:tommy1808 wrote:Richard28 wrote:Many UK politicians see leaving the single market and dropping of freedom of movement and suffering the economic fallout as a price they are willing to pay.... they are just not willing to let the British people have a say on this matter as they think they have a mandate for it....)
I find it fascinating how openly UK politician can promote removing a hell lot of rights from their citizens without being strung up on the next tree.
Best regards
Thomas
Probably because most people in thr UK couldn’t get a flying fig about free movement rights being eroded.
I, and many others, would have no interest in living in Germany, Romania, Bulgaria etc.
noviorbis77 wrote:tommy1808 wrote:Richard28 wrote:Many UK politicians see leaving the single market and dropping of freedom of movement and suffering the economic fallout as a price they are willing to pay.... they are just not willing to let the British people have a say on this matter as they think they have a mandate for it....)
I find it fascinating how openly UK politician can promote removing a hell lot of rights from their citizens without being strung up on the next tree.
Best regards
Thomas
Probably because most people in thr UK couldn’t get a flying fig about free movement rights being eroded.
I, and many others, would have no interest in living in Germany, Romania, Bulgaria etc.
sabenapilot wrote:noviorbis77 wrote:tommy1808 wrote:
I find it fascinating how openly UK politician can promote removing a hell lot of rights from their citizens without being strung up on the next tree.
Best regards
Thomas
Probably because most people in thr UK couldn’t get a flying fig about free movement rights being eroded.
I, and many others, would have no interest in living in Germany, Romania, Bulgaria etc.
If FoM would be the only right British citizens will be stripped of, the issue would indeed be purely theoretical for most...
Unfortunately, the list of rights ordinary British citizens stand to lose upon Brexit and for which the alternative proposed by the UK government is currently of lower grade is appalingly long, ranging from consumer rights, to health protection rights, over labour rights... the list of rights you stand to lose and/or see downgraded over time is endless, as documented by official government papers helping British firms and citizens prepare!
Sadly, these papers also contain even more sobering and often truly eyepoppingly blunt advice to businesses, thus taking away focus from the massive loss of citizen rights, like is the case in this latest release from HM Government, where the British Government simply advices certain British based companies to leave the UK altogether now before it will be too late!?!
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium-europe
noviorbis77 wrote:sabenapilot wrote:noviorbis77 wrote:
Probably because most people in thr UK couldn’t get a flying fig about free movement rights being eroded.
I, and many others, would have no interest in living in Germany, Romania, Bulgaria etc.
If FoM would be the only right British citizens will be stripped of, the issue would indeed be purely theoretical for most...
Unfortunately, the list of rights ordinary British citizens stand to lose upon Brexit and for which the alternative proposed by the UK government is currently of lower grade is appalingly long, ranging from consumer rights, to health protection rights, over labour rights... the list of rights you stand to lose and/or see downgraded over time is endless, as documented by official government papers helping British firms and citizens prepare!
Sadly, these papers also contain even more sobering and often truly eyepoppingly blunt advice to businesses, thus taking away focus from the massive loss of citizen rights, like is the case in this latest release from HM Government, where the British Government simply advices certain British based companies to leave the UK altogether now before it will be too late!?!
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium-europe
Ah yes. The unfounded claims of all our rights being eroded.
We’ll all be in Victorian work houses within 5 years. All dependent on EU charity food parcels.
Why is there not more hysteria in the UK?
noviorbis77 wrote:
Why is there not more hysteria in the UK?
bananaboy wrote:noviorbis77 wrote:sabenapilot wrote:
If FoM would be the only right British citizens will be stripped of, the issue would indeed be purely theoretical for most...
Unfortunately, the list of rights ordinary British citizens stand to lose upon Brexit and for which the alternative proposed by the UK government is currently of lower grade is appalingly long, ranging from consumer rights, to health protection rights, over labour rights... the list of rights you stand to lose and/or see downgraded over time is endless, as documented by official government papers helping British firms and citizens prepare!
Sadly, these papers also contain even more sobering and often truly eyepoppingly blunt advice to businesses, thus taking away focus from the massive loss of citizen rights, like is the case in this latest release from HM Government, where the British Government simply advices certain British based companies to leave the UK altogether now before it will be too late!?!
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ium-europe
Ah yes. The unfounded claims of all our rights being eroded.
We’ll all be in Victorian work houses within 5 years. All dependent on EU charity food parcels.
Why is there not more hysteria in the UK?
OK, which rights and freedoms will we gain from leaving? I'm curious to know.
sabenapilot wrote:A little overview of things you stand to lose...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... s-analysis
In case you can't be bothered reading though it all, just think a second about the ridiculousness of the very last one in today's world:
British consumers may not be able to access online subscription services such as Netflix, Spotify and Amazon Prime when travelling to the EU on holiday in the event of no deal as the EU's portability regulation will cease to apply to UK nationals when they travel abroad.
seahawk wrote:Control the borders.
noviorbis77 wrote:sabenapilot wrote:A little overview of things you stand to lose...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... s-analysis
In case you can't be bothered reading though it all, just think a second about the ridiculousness of the very last one in today's world:
British consumers may not be able to access online subscription services such as Netflix, Spotify and Amazon Prime when travelling to the EU on holiday in the event of no deal as the EU's portability regulation will cease to apply to UK nationals when they travel abroad.
Do you know how the term “may lose” translates into your native tongue?
Again it is sensational hysteria by a newspaper that is far from objective.
sabenapilot wrote:noviorbis77,
Please note that each time a conditional tense is used in this article, it is because the British government does not guarantee those particular rights to remain intact under its own sovereign law! Their retention is thus solely dependent on the UK remaining subjected to the EU's legislation in this particular domain.
You seem not to understand 'may lose' very well yourself, thinking everything will just be rolled over in British law, in case of no deal: it theoretically could for most part, but the British government clearly does not intend to do so in many cases touching upon litterally everybody's daily life.
noviorbis77 wrote:Do you know how the term “may lose” translates into your native tongue?
Again it is sensational hysteria by a newspaper that is far from objective.
A3801000 wrote:UK Government advice suggests UK companies with large EU biz “consider whether they need to restructure” - eg by moving domicile/inc - for No Deal Brexit.
First time in history a UK Govt effectively suggested shifting HQs out of UKl