Maria Butina, a Russian Gun Rights advocate was suddenly arrested Monday on espionage charges of criminal acts against the United States. She’s being held without bond.

Explained: What criminal conspiracy charges against an alleged Russian spy might mean for the NRA

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/07/explai ... t-mean-nra

U.S. authorities have arrested Mariia Butina, a Russian advocate for firearms ownership also known as Maria. In a criminal complaint that led to her indictment, the Justice Department accused her of secretly infiltrating American electoral politics as a foreign agent working on behalf of Russia and engaged in an anti-U.S. conspiracy. Numerous media reports allege that Butina illegally helped funnel Russian money into Donald Trump’s presidential campaign through the National Rifle Association. Brian Galle, a law professor who used to work for the Justice Department, explains what the consequences might be if the charges and accounts are true.

Now, first off there is no such thing as gun rights in Russia. So why would a Russian come here to promote ‘gun rights in Russia’, when there is. Maybe she wants start a movement...
.... hmmmm she was off to a good start, she emBEDded quickly with the NRA. Heck, she even managed to get Nation Security Advisor John Bolton to do a public service announcement video advocating as much... but surely the former US United Nations ambassador had to have known that such a video msg would certainly not air on Russian Tv. Surely, he’d know that. But he did it anyway.

It appears tons of cash made its way into NRA coffers and the pockets of some GOP actors...as in Congressmen. But the kicker here is, the promotion was or appears to be some sort of cover to infiltrate the US electorate segment that champion the NRA and some GOPers were too happy to assist. US prosecutors are seeking immunity for 5 Americans tied into this in order to snag bigger fish. So who were these naughty actors so eager to score some easy cash to mug with Maria?

BN747

BN747 wrote:

US prosecutors are seeking immunity for 5 Americans tied into this in order to snag bigger fish. So who were these naughty actors so eager to score some easy cash to mug with Maria?

BN747

Immunity for 5 people would only makes sense if the fish you are trying to fry is so large that it ain't a fish anymore, but a mammal, because it is a whale.

Well, may explain why congress is so tame....

Best regards
Thomas

Most Russian NGO actors are US backed and financed.
Assume a US entity moving money to Russia to move it back to the US to incriminate "someone"

WIederling wrote:

Most Russian NGO actors are US backed and financed.
Assume a US entity moving money to Russia to move it back to the US to incriminate "someone"

Well that's just because the USA is the most economically powerful nation in the world and no where will refuse our money and influence. The USA does control much of the world as you note. Our money is everywhere because the world depends on it.

Tugg

Tugger wrote:

Well that's just because the USA is the most economically powerful nation in the world and no where will refuse our money and influence.

It is an underhanded push op and not a pull op.

The NRA for sure didn't want Clinton as President so had something in common with Russian agents wanting to support Trump. I wish this would lead to investigations of the NRA for improper use of funds in partisan political campaigns, money laundering, etc. to curb their 2nd Amendment extremism, but no one of either party will dare go after them. I do suspect some may have to leave the organization for their contacts and may have been witnesses in the Grand Jury indictment hearings and possible trial witnesses.

WIederling wrote:

Tugger wrote:

Well that's just because the USA is the most economically powerful nation in the world and no where will refuse our money and influence.

It is an underhanded push op and not a pull op.

Source? Or just speculation?

Tugg

ltbewr wrote:

The NRA for sure didn't want Clinton as President so had something in common with Russian agents wanting to support Trump. I wish this would lead to investigations of the NRA for improper use of funds in partisan political campaigns, money laundering, etc. to curb their 2nd Amendment extremism, but no one of either party will dare go after them. I do suspect some may have to leave the organization for their contacts and may have been witnesses in the Grand Jury indictment hearings and possible trial witnesses.

I guarantee sure as you are reading this that Hillary would have done the exact same thing with regards to guns as Obama did every time there was a mass shooting. Ask Congress to pass laws but they will not because too many of them are in bed with NRA.

On topic: it makes sense that this is how Russia would get money to the Republican party to get tRump elected. They needed a large enough organization for a slush fund. What better than NRA?

I wonder: could someone file a FOIA request to see their financial documents?

Sarah Sanders just told the media to stop thinking a girl is a Russian spy because she is a redhead. This is after they asked about the indictments.

This has to be the worst administration in history.

casinterest wrote:

Sarah Sanders just told the media to stop thinking a girl is a Russian spy because she is a redhead. This is after they asked about the indictments.
This has to be the worst administration in history.

"Yes, Sarah, I am sure the Justice Department's National Security Prosecutors were deluded into believing the was a Russian Spy because of the color of her hair..."

Tugger wrote:

WIederling wrote:

It is an underhanded push op and not a pull op.

Source? Or just speculation?

observation.
inner workings of a blackbox succumb to observation

NRA’s Wayne LaPierre ‘shaking in his boots waiting for Mueller to come knocking’: Ex-DOJ official

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/07/nras-w ... -official/


Now this prick is one guy I'd like to watch get all caught up with laundering Russian cash...

BN747

Tugger wrote:

WIederling wrote:

Tugger wrote:

Well that's just because the USA is the most economically powerful nation in the world and no where will refuse our money and influence.

It is an underhanded push op and not a pull op.

Source? Or just speculation?

Tugg

Wlederling, a source for one of his delusional conspiracy theories ?

I'm still waiting for the sabotage evidence for the A400 debacle.

alfa164 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Sarah Sanders just told the media to stop thinking a girl is a Russian spy because she is a redhead. This is after they asked about the indictments.
This has to be the worst administration in history.

"Yes, Sarah, I am sure the Justice Department's National Security Prosecutors were deluded into believing the was a Russian Spy because of the color of her hair..."

Well, she knows red hair means she is a witch...

Best regards
Thomas

Is this like the "investigation of Donald Trump" thread, where we were told Trump is definitely going down?

Freakysh wrote:

Is this like the "investigation of Donald Trump" thread, where we were told Trump is definitely going down?

How long would Watergate take from Kick-Off to Nixon stepping down? How many indictments did that investigation have under its belt at this time in the process?

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ho ... hitewater/

best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

Freakysh wrote:

Is this like the "investigation of Donald Trump" thread, where we were told Trump is definitely going down?

How long would Watergate take from Kick-Off to Nixon stepping down? How many indictments did that investigation have under its belt at this time in the process?

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ho ... hitewater/

best regards
Thomas

I've got time. I watch with anticipation

How long before Drumph simply pardons Butina?

Revelation wrote:

... pardon(s) Butina?

Shouldn't one should wait for a conviction first?

( scraping alternative facts from thin air is easy.
bringing that to court without getting slapped down by the court less so )

No one in NRA/GOP questioned why a Russian became second amendment activist. I guess she is too hot/cute to question.

dtw2hyd wrote:

No one in NRA/GOP questioned why a Russian became second amendment activist. I guess she is too hot/cute to question.

Well the indictment did say she was offering things on the side, and I heard Wayne LaPierre likes gingers even more than he likes sanctimony and semiautomatics.

Wonder how long it will take before it emerges who she 'embedded' via...
Can't wait for the well known scenes of the guilty of pleasure adulterer offering his excuses live on stage, with his family and his frumpy middle aged wife standing next to him in support!
Although with all those guns in house, you just never know of course!

A short history of scandal of Butina's Republican operative "roommate," Paul Erickson, including, of all people, John Wayne Bobbitt:

https://www.argusleader.com/story/news/ ... 795796002/

https://www.thedailybeast.com/accused-r ... d-lawsuits

What is different about this scandal is there is no frumpy wife--he has never been married. Good on him for that moral compass!

WIederling wrote:

Revelation wrote:

... pardon(s) Butina?

Shouldn't one should wait for a conviction first?

( scraping alternative facts from thin air is easy.
bringing that to court without getting slapped down by the court less so )

I would say ask Presidents Ford and Nixon about that, but they seem to be permanently indisposed (or disposed, I guess).

dtw2hyd wrote:

No one in NRA/GOP questioned why a Russian became second amendment activist. I guess she is too hot/cute to question.

Only in White Supremacist Hooterville, USA would that potato-faced hag be considered “hot.” One can almost picture her on the back of a Harley with a cigarette dangling from her lips — tits sagging to her knees —flipping off the local police on her way to Sturgis.

dtw2hyd wrote:

No one in NRA/GOP questioned why a Russian became second amendment activist. I guess she is too hot/cute to question.

.Because its mostly creepy middle aged men. They're happy to oblige a pretty young girl who knows how to handle a gun.

Go to any hobby meetup and the only girl there will be subject to unbelievable thirsty creeps. Just ask any female pilot or aviation enthusiast.

seb146 wrote:

ltbewr wrote:

The NRA for sure didn't want Clinton as President so had something in common with Russian agents wanting to support Trump. I wish this would lead to investigations of the NRA for improper use of funds in partisan political campaigns, money laundering, etc. to curb their 2nd Amendment extremism, but no one of either party will dare go after them. I do suspect some may have to leave the organization for their contacts and may have been witnesses in the Grand Jury indictment hearings and possible trial witnesses.

I guarantee sure as you are reading this that Hillary would have done the exact same thing with regards to guns as Obama did every time there was a mass shooting. Ask Congress to pass laws but they will not because too many of them are in bed with NRA.

On topic: it makes sense that this is how Russia would get money to the Republican party to get tRump elected. They needed a large enough organization for a slush fund. What better than NRA?

I wonder: could someone file a FOIA request to see their financial documents?

Seb, the problem with Congress passing the laws were that the laws that were proposed are unconstitutional. They looked to add people on the do not fly list to the NICS without providing a means for someone to appeal. Restricting someones rights without judicial review is the first step towards a totalitarian regime.

The Republicans had a bill drafted that would have protected the 2nd amendment rights of citizens s while also strengthening our firearms laws. It was voted down because it didn't go far enough.

You can't infringe on someones rights just to say you did something.

LittleSprocket wrote:

Seb, the problem with Congress passing the laws were that the laws that were proposed are unconstitutional. They looked to add people on the do not fly list to the NICS without providing a means for someone to appeal. Restricting someones rights without judicial review is the first step towards a totalitarian regime.

The Republicans had a bill drafted that would have protected the 2nd amendment rights of citizens s while also strengthening our firearms laws. It was voted down because it didn't go far enough.

You can't infringe on someones rights just to say you did something.

If it is a law, it is more than proposed. If it is not law, it can not be unconstitutional. I would like to know what proposal was made by Republicans? From your wording, it sounds like doing nothing at all. If there was such a proposal, it was probably voted down because of riders but the right spun it as "liberals want to take away all guns."

BTW, how many times did Obama march troops through the streets taking away guns? IIRC, that was one point the right made against Obama. When did that happen again?

casinterest wrote:

Sarah Sanders just told the media to stop thinking a girl is a Russian spy because she is a redhead. This is after they asked about the indictments.

This has to be the worst administration in history.

Only in your eyes.

I'm telling myself just the opposite, and our opinions just cancelled each other out.

Out.

Just goes to show the Prayer Breakfast is nothing but grifters and johns. Trump fits right in.

BN747 wrote:

NRA’s Wayne LaPierre ‘shaking in his boots waiting for Mueller to come knocking’: Ex-DOJ official

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/07/nras-w ... -official/


Now this prick is one guy I'd like to watch get all caught up with laundering Russian cash...

BN747

That would be so delicious I'd have to pack half in some Tupperware to save for the following week. Who would ever guess an organization led by Oliver North had shady dealings with arms and foreign money? I think Hollywood would bin this script and say it's "too predictable".

jetero wrote:

What is different about this scandal is there is no frumpy wife--he has never been married. Good on him for that moral compass!

Well there's at least one

DIRECTFLT wrote:

I'm telling myself just the opposite

Oh honey we know. BTW which version of events are you sticking with vis a vis the Helsinki meet 'n greet?

DIRECTFLT wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Sarah Sanders just told the media to stop thinking a girl is a Russian spy because she is a redhead. This is after they asked about the indictments.

This has to be the worst administration in history.

Only in your eyes.

I'm telling myself just the opposite, and our opinions just cancelled each other out.

Out.

Yeah, about that

https://www.axios.com/experts-rank-trum ... 635e6.html

170 experts agree that tRump is the worst. Obama at 8th best. I would think 10 or 11 for Obama. Please tell us how 170 experts are not experts. I expect sources, too.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Sarah Sanders just told the media to stop thinking a girl is a Russian spy because she is a redhead. This is after they asked about the indictments.

This has to be the worst administration in history.

Only in your eyes.

I'm telling myself just the opposite, and our opinions just cancelled each other out.

Out.

Okay, well tell yourself this, how does your brain line you up behind A leader you admired deeply emerged with big-time hardcore dictators(over America’s traditional allies), mob-connected "fixers," Russian spies, hookers, porn actors, Bible-thumpers, Nazis, KKKs, dirty bankers, and the recently subpoenad Manhattan Madam Davis/Roger Stone connec, Rupert Murdoch...

...this oughta be good.

BN747

BN747 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

casinterest wrote:

Sarah Sanders just told the media to stop thinking a girl is a Russian spy because she is a redhead. This is after they asked about the indictments.

This has to be the worst administration in history.

Only in your eyes.

I'm telling myself just the opposite, and our opinions just cancelled each other out.

Out.

Okay, well tell yourself this, how does your brain line you up behind A leader you admired deeply emerged with big-time hardcore dictators(over America’s traditional allies), mob-connected "fixers," Russian spies, hookers, porn actors, Bible-thumpers, Nazis, KKKs, dirty bankers, and the recently subpoenad Manhattan Madam Davis/Roger Stone connec, Rupert Murdoch...

...this oughta be good.

BN747

I'm cool with that. He is putting America first, and not some boot-licker to world order consensus.

DIRECTFLT wrote:

BN747 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Only in your eyes.
I'm telling myself just the opposite, and our opinions just cancelled each other out.
Out.

Okay, well tell yourself this, how does your brain line you up behind A leader you admired deeply emerged with big-time hardcore dictators(over America’s traditional allies), mob-connected "fixers," Russian spies, hookers, porn actors, Bible-thumpers, Nazis, KKKs, dirty bankers, and the recently subpoenad Manhattan Madam Davis/Roger Stone connec, Rupert Murdoch...
...this oughta be good.
BN747

I'm cool with that. He is putting America first, and not some boot-licker to world order consensus.

Actually, he is putting Donald J. Trump first; he never cared anything about this country until he learned that spouting-off patriotic catch-phrases and pandering to our baser instincts would gain him publicity and a voice, and cozying-up with other countries' leaders would allow him (and his family) to expand their "brand".

When the docile lemmings who still see him as the orange messiah wake up... they are in for a true revelation...

DIRECTFLT wrote:

BN747 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Only in your eyes.

I'm telling myself just the opposite, and our opinions just cancelled each other out.

Out.

Okay, well tell yourself this, how does your brain line you up behind A leader you admired deeply emerged with big-time hardcore dictators(over America’s traditional allies), mob-connected "fixers," Russian spies, hookers, porn actors, Bible-thumpers, Nazis, KKKs, dirty bankers, and the recently subpoenad Manhattan Madam Davis/Roger Stone connec, Rupert Murdoch...

...this oughta be good.

BN747

I'm cool with that. He is putting America first, and not some boot-licker to world order consensus.

Wow! Holy F**k, ok...and you’re cool with a POTUS licking Pooty’s boots (ass actually) infront of the whole world consensus watching?

I mean Watergate was a burglar break-in (into opposition HQ) in pursuit of a win...ending in jail for many and a POTUS shamed outta office.

Comrade Trumpski’s Russiagate has a successful Kremlin break-in (cyber-style) of the opposition to the candidate they wanted..and now the POTUS to treat the Burglars to State Visit and dinner...

...and see nothing wrong?

BN747

BN747 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

BN747 wrote:

Okay, well tell yourself this, how does your brain line you up behind A leader you admired deeply emerged with big-time hardcore dictators(over America’s traditional allies), mob-connected "fixers," Russian spies, hookers, porn actors, Bible-thumpers, Nazis, KKKs, dirty bankers, and the recently subpoenad Manhattan Madam Davis/Roger Stone connec, Rupert Murdoch...

...this oughta be good.

BN747

I'm cool with that. He is putting America first, and not some boot-licker to world order consensus.

Wow! Holy F**k, ok...and you’re cool with a POTUS licking Pooty’s boots (ass actually) infront of the whole world consensus watching?

I mean Watergate was a burglar break-in (into opposition HQ) in pursuit of a win...ending in jail for many and a POTUS shamed outta office.

Comrade Trumpski’s Russiagate has a successful Kremlin break-in (cyber-style) of the opposition to the candidate they wanted..and now the POTUS to treat the Burglars to State Visit and dinner...

...and see nothing wrong?

BN747

I’ve asked DF to summarize his view of the world several times, since it seems to revolve around “Anything that liberals do is sinister,” but all I’ve gotten in return is that he loves his Senior Citizen discount at Chicken Express and wants to pass a Constitutional amendment to make the Bible (well, his view at least ... you know, the “textual” one) the law of the land (Sharia anyone?)

It’s a waste, because he’s obviously not an idiot. I suspect his actual MO is no different than Roger Stone’s ... a professional provocateur fueled by inciting “Godless libtards.”

jetero wrote:

BN747 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

I'm cool with that. He is putting America first, and not some boot-licker to world order consensus.

Wow! Holy F**k, ok...and you’re cool with a POTUS licking Pooty’s boots (ass actually) infront of the whole world consensus watching?

I mean Watergate was a burglar break-in (into opposition HQ) in pursuit of a win...ending in jail for many and a POTUS shamed outta office.

Comrade Trumpski’s Russiagate has a successful Kremlin break-in (cyber-style) of the opposition to the candidate they wanted..and now the POTUS to treat the Burglars to State Visit and dinner...

...and see nothing wrong?

BN747

I’ve asked DF to summarize his view of the world several times, since it seems to revolve around “Anything that liberals do is sinister,” but all I’ve gotten in return is that he loves his Senior Citizen discount at Chicken Express and wants to pass a Constitutional amendment to make the Bible (well, his view at least ... you know, the “textual” one) the law of the land (Sharia anyone?)

It’s a waste, because he’s obviously not an idiot. I suspect his actual MO is no different than Roger Stone’s ... a professional provocateur fueled by inciting “Godless libtards.”

I see, so no wonder I did see him respond in the ‘is god a myth’ thread..

Thanks Jetero

BN747

The only plausible explanation I can come up with, NRA/GOP was fooled by Butina's claim to achieve the right to bear arms in Russia. So probably second amendment nuts went all in.

dtw2hyd wrote:

The only plausible explanation I can come up with, NRA/GOP was fooled by Butina's claim to achieve the right to bear arms in Russia. So probably second amendment nuts went all in.

Sounds entirely plausible to me. When did the modern conception of “gun rights”=individual liberty=out of my cold, dead hands become so ubiquitous? Had to be some reaction to the Civil Rights movement.

(I’m not saying the above so as to incite an argument ... few of us lived as middle-aged adults in the late 1960s so we shouldn’t naively speak with the benefit of 50 years as if we did. But I highly doubt the “gun rights” movement as we know it today existed in 1935.)

dtw2hyd wrote:

The only plausible explanation I can come up with, NRA/GOP was fooled by Butina's claim to achieve the right to bear arms in Russia. So probably second amendment nuts went all in.

I am not asking you, dtw, unless you specifically know. Your post brought me to this question:

There are plenty of "Russians doing crazy things" videos on YouTube. Some of them involve high powered guns. So, if the Russian people are so oppressed as far as gun rights, how do these people get those kinds of guns?

DIRECTFLT wrote:

BN747 wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

Only in your eyes.

I'm telling myself just the opposite, and our opinions just cancelled each other out.

Out.

Okay, well tell yourself this, how does your brain line you up behind A leader you admired deeply emerged with big-time hardcore dictators(over America’s traditional allies), mob-connected "fixers," Russian spies, hookers, porn actors, Bible-thumpers, Nazis, KKKs, dirty bankers, and the recently subpoenad Manhattan Madam Davis/Roger Stone connec, Rupert Murdoch...

...this oughta be good.

BN747

I'm cool with that. He is putting America first, and not some boot-licker to world order consensus.

Can we have your definition of "America" ?

casinterest wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

BN747 wrote:

Okay, well tell yourself this, how does your brain line you up behind A leader you admired deeply emerged with big-time hardcore dictators(over America’s traditional allies), mob-connected "fixers," Russian spies, hookers, porn actors, Bible-thumpers, Nazis, KKKs, dirty bankers, and the recently subpoenad Manhattan Madam Davis/Roger Stone connec, Rupert Murdoch...

...this oughta be good.

BN747

I'm cool with that. He is putting America first, and not some boot-licker to world order consensus.

Can we have your definition of "America" ?

Is that directed to me or I believe it’s rhetorical?

BN747

BN747 wrote:

casinterest wrote:

DIRECTFLT wrote:

I'm cool with that. He is putting America first, and not some boot-licker to world order consensus.

Can we have your definition of "America" ?

Is that directed to me or I believe it’s rhetorical?

BN747

I was quoting DIRECTFLT

MaverickM11 wrote:

Oh honey we know. BTW which version of events are you sticking with vis a vis the Helsinki meet 'n greet?

Of course the version where Putin didn't admit that he a) wanted Trump as President and b) directed his government agencies to make that happen.
Which is hilarious considering that Trump, who he "apparently" told Russia hadn't done it, was standing right next to him when he admitted that.

And to get back to this threat, that spy lady had communications to the effect that the Russian government was already sure that the republicans would win the 2016 election in January 2015 when she proposed her influence operation.

And seriously, if John Bolton was a democrat in a democratic government, the GOP would be screaming for his head because he made a promo video for the spy.

Best regards
Thomas

Thread will be locked for becoming off topic and continuous use of inappropriate wording