Bricktop
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:56 pm

2122M wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
2122M wrote:

Its not a rhetorical question. Its a fact that neo Nazis love Trump. I'm just curious as to why you think that is.

I'm not calling you a Nazi, I want to be clear on that. But you are clearly conservative and may have some insight as to why your party and its leader are so appealing to white supremacists.

Thanks for not calling me a Nazi.

As I pointed out, there were two main choices on the ballot. They certainly weren't going to vote for Hillary were they, just as the loony left weren't going to vote for Trump? Actually, some of them probably voted third party, maybe the libertarian guy whose name I am too lazy to Google, so you were wrong when you said above 100% of them voted for Trump. ;) They are scum and I wish they were not affiliated in any way in the same breath as me. That's life, but I don't tar all Dems with the lunatic fringe brush, but it seems that many Democrats tend to call Republicans white supremacists or Nazis with great ease. It's a facile way to end a discussion: I don't have to debate you because you are evil.

And I am old enough to remember when the ACLU fought to left real-life swastika wearing Nazis march in Skokie. How times have changed. Now you disagree with someone and their a Nazi. Progess.


I can only half agree with that assessment. I'm sure neo Nazis viewed McCain and Romney as the lesser of two evils against Obama. Bush as the lesser of two evils against Gore and Kerry. But they have never vocally supported a politician until Trump. I don't really believe they see him as the lesser of two evils. I think they see him as a candidate that finally speaks to them.

For example:

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-ca ... azi-salute

I think there has been progress and I'm happy for that. I think Trump has stopped or even reversed that progress. And I think that makes him the greater of two evils by a long shot.

Thank you for discussing this respectfully. I hope I have done the same.

Trump "speaks to them"? I'm sorry, people need to really understand Nazism before they compare Trump to Hitler. I mean, they said Bush was Hitler. Reagan too. It's the "go to" play for Dems but as someone who lost family members in the camps, I find it shall we say inappropriate. Nazis support Trump, ergo Trump is a Nazi is very poor logic.

I think there is a lot of agenda driven hysteria put about from some quarters. IMO, he's far from perfect, and I certainly don't endorse some of the silliness that comes out of his mouth. But also IMO, I think a Hillary Presidency would have been a disaster. That's probably just the misogynist in me talking though. But I have evolved: Racist 2008-2016, Deplorable 2016-present.
 
trpmb6
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:12 pm

2122M wrote:
But they have never vocally supported a politician until Trump.


Citation required.
 
2122M
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:14 pm

Bricktop wrote:
2122M wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Thanks for not calling me a Nazi.

As I pointed out, there were two main choices on the ballot. They certainly weren't going to vote for Hillary were they, just as the loony left weren't going to vote for Trump? Actually, some of them probably voted third party, maybe the libertarian guy whose name I am too lazy to Google, so you were wrong when you said above 100% of them voted for Trump. ;) They are scum and I wish they were not affiliated in any way in the same breath as me. That's life, but I don't tar all Dems with the lunatic fringe brush, but it seems that many Democrats tend to call Republicans white supremacists or Nazis with great ease. It's a facile way to end a discussion: I don't have to debate you because you are evil.

And I am old enough to remember when the ACLU fought to left real-life swastika wearing Nazis march in Skokie. How times have changed. Now you disagree with someone and their a Nazi. Progess.


I can only half agree with that assessment. I'm sure neo Nazis viewed McCain and Romney as the lesser of two evils against Obama. Bush as the lesser of two evils against Gore and Kerry. But they have never vocally supported a politician until Trump. I don't really believe they see him as the lesser of two evils. I think they see him as a candidate that finally speaks to them.

For example:

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-ca ... azi-salute

I think there has been progress and I'm happy for that. I think Trump has stopped or even reversed that progress. And I think that makes him the greater of two evils by a long shot.

Thank you for discussing this respectfully. I hope I have done the same.

Trump "speaks to them"? I'm sorry, people need to really understand Nazism before they compare Trump to Hitler. I mean, they said Bush was Hitler. Reagan too. It's the "go to" play for Dems but as someone who lost family members in the camps, I find it shall we say inappropriate. Nazis support Trump, ergo Trump is a Nazi is very poor logic.

I think there is a lot of agenda driven hysteria put about from some quarters. IMO, he's far from perfect, and I certainly don't endorse some of the silliness that comes out of his mouth. But also IMO, I think a Hillary Presidency would have been a disaster. That's probably just the misogynist in me talking though. But I have evolved: Racist 2008-2016, Deplorable 2016-present.


Nazi's are enamored with him. When I say he 'speaks to them', of course I don't mean literally. He's not campaigning directly to Nazi's. But you can't deny that they see something in him they really like. They outwardly support him and if I were a conservative, Id want to take a good hard look at what has happened in my party that led it to be the go-to political camp for hate groups like them and other white supremacy groups.

To your point though, people have absolutely overplayed the "insert person you don't like" = Hitler card. I fear that we may in a 'boy who cried wolf' scenario with that now though. Trump isn't Hitler. But I think, deep down, he'd love to have Hitler-eque power, even if it came at the expense of democracy. I have no way of verifying that, but he has shown a tendency to play to the populist base at the expense of American political norms.

For the record though (because you seem like a reasonable guy), I'd like to say that I think Trump is a walking disaster and has the potential to be the worst thing that has ever happened to this country. HOWEVER, I understand his election. I've spent plenty of time in middle America and understand why people would, en masse, vote for anything at all that represented a massive change from the status quo. America needs a shake up, but not from a guy that is the walking embodiment of the 7 deadly sins.
 
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jdstJD
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:14 pm

LittleSprocket wrote:
casinterest wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
The hyperbole train has just left the station!

Oh, not only is Trump not a Nazi, he's not even a fascist.
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/1 ... -democracy


Go back and reread my statement.
Didn't call him that. But thanks for missing the point.



You are right, you called his supporters Nazi's for voting for him. Ya'll wonder why the dimocrats lost the 2016 election? It wasn't because of Russia, it was because of people like you that claim that ANY time someone has a differing opinion on how the world should work, they are called racists, nazi's, homophobics, deplorables, and anything else under the sun that could be construed as an insult. Congratulations buddy, your continuing attacks on those that support Trump and like the way that the country is going is only going to drive more people to the polls come November.


Well, I have to say that I don't like it when people loosely throw the word "racist" around, but I have seen and heard so many nasty racist slurs and vicious, hateful treatment by trump supporters its literally scary, and I mean every day. Its like people are so passionate (not in a good way) about trump and what he represents, in the sense that he "says what's on his mind" which often are disrespectful, crude, nasty and yes even racist things, it begs the question of his supporters: "so this is what you all want to say"? "This is how you want to treat people"? He wants to "make America great again", well what exactly does that mean? Make America great for whom? I try to watch his rallies to try to hear him out and learn about the substance of what he says because that's the type of person I am, but honestly, I don't ever hear any intellectual discussion about policy and issues. He talks in platitudes, rather than in detail and accurate historical context, which doesn't serve his supporters well because they are not getting any more informed about the issues. All he can do is spew insults and crude jokes and encourage his supporters to be vocal and aggressive with their hostility towards people. The vitriol that comes from people I see, hear and deal with every day is disgusting and infuriating. It makes it hard to actually live and work civilly with people because there is now a sense of nervousness that someone is going to blatantly blurt out a racist insult at or around me and there may be nothing I can do about it. People feel so emboldened by trump now because in their mind he "says what is on his mind" so they want to as well.

I know there are some loony tunes on the left, a lot actually, and it irks me. But I just do not see or feel any kind of social fear and anxiety from the things they say or do like we are experiencing with this guy as the leader of the country. I literally feel sick when I think about him being the actual president of the United States. I feel like he does not deserve that level of respect or honor. He does not represent anything that the country "supposedly" stands for. Its surreal. Calls into question for me how its possible the country became such a powerful symbol in so many ways and then so many fundamental principles could crumble so quickly. Is no one on the right concerned about this? How do you answer for or explain the things he has done and the things he says all the time??? I don't get it.

As for Brett Kavanaugh, so far I haven't heard anything about him that makes me uncomfortable. So far I think he might make a good and fair justice. As a lawyer, the responses I have heard him give regarding precedent and how the law should be applied in various circumstances are right in line with how many, if not most lawyers would answer those legal and philosophical questions.
Last edited by jdstJD on Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lawyer, frequent air traveler and aviation enthusiast.
 
2122M
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:18 pm

trpmb6 wrote:
2122M wrote:
But they have never vocally supported a politician until Trump.


Citation required.


Seriously?

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-ca ... azi-salute

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... -same-page

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... nald-trump

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... ionalists/

http://www.businessinsider.com/neo-nazi ... ots-2017-8

The list goes on.....

If you mean the part about how they haven't supported anyone else until Trump, I suppose I mean in the modern era. Of course the KKK and other hate groups were mainstream and supported many candidates in the past.
 
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:22 pm

VTKillarney wrote:


casinterest wrote:
The absence of a law is not a reason to deny justice based on existing precident.

This muddles some terms and is very hard to respond to. If there is "existing precident [sic]" then there is not an absence of law. You appear to be confused as to the difference between case law and statute.

Should courts be deferential to precedent? Sure. Neither side has ever argued that concept.

Should courts essentially make up laws when there are none? That goes back to what I discussed, above.

But remember this. The left likes the idea of courts making up laws where there are none. And that is EXACTLY why the left is so scared of what is happening with the court. Instead of getting Amendments and laws passed, they relied solely on the courts to do the work. They now want to put that genie back in the bottle.



The left also seems to be thinking that the right will apply their political thought in a similar manner. But they don't realize that they don't subscribe to that kind of legislating from the bench type of attitude.

Will the conservative justice reconsider existing precedent when reviewing a case on the same topic? Absolutely. And more often not will refer to that precedent as to why it should continue to be upheld (see several of this year's rulings - including the ones about the travel ban - the majority referred to several prior cases where precedent already existed.) But sometimes the court recognizes the failings of their predecessors (or more likely, the change in laws that congress has passed that affect said rulings). As I noted Brown V Board of Education is probably the best example.

The left is scared because they are afraid that the right will apply their same methods to change or destroy everything they have done. But it won't happen particularly due to the way conservative justices rule.

Someone once told me that policies never roll back to the right, they only ever become more and more progressive, with some slowing down occasionally whenever conservatives regain control. Government never gets smaller, it will always get bigger and bigger.
 
seb146
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:36 pm

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-anthony ... d59473ecf/

Kennedy reportedly recieved assurances from tRump that Kavanaugh would replace him. Other questions were simply dodged.

Why is he allowed to seat a Supreme Court justice, anyway? He is under investigation!
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:48 pm

seb146 wrote:
Why is he allowed to seat a Supreme Court justice, anyway? He is under investigation!

A) Because there is no authority you can point to that prohibits him from nominating a Justice.
B) Because precedent has been set when Bill Clinton appointed Stephen Breyer after Attorney General Janet Reno appointed a special prosecutor, Robert B. Fiske, to investigate the legality of the Whitewater transactions. And none of you cared one bit.

We are going to see a lot of grasping at straws in the next few weeks.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:53 pm

seb146 wrote:
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-anthony-kennedy-brett-kavanaugh-corrupt-secret-deal-13fd59473ecf/

Kennedy reportedly recieved assurances from tRump that Kavanaugh would replace him. Other questions were simply dodged.

Why is he allowed to seat a Supreme Court justice, anyway? He is under investigation!

"Doesn't deny" does not equal proof.

But if we go down this rabbit hole...
Why would Kennedy pledge to step down for Kavanaugh, a far more conservative figure?

How could there have been a binding deal? If Trump reversed course, was Kennedy going to un-retire?

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Kennedy told Trump that he liked Kavanaugh. Why wouldn't he?

But if you are going to try to prove that there was some sort of quid pro quo - well... where is it?

And just thinking out loud here, if there was a gentlemen's agreement is that necessarily wrong? Deals are struck in politics all of the time, including between branches of government. At the end of the day, the President decides who to nominate and the President could have always told Kennedy to bugger off. It may be a violation of something... but what?
Last edited by VTKillarney on Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
seb146
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:57 pm

apodino wrote:
seb146 wrote:
I find it interesting that the OP goes on and on about how "crazy" college students are. So much contradiction. OP loves freedom of speech and freedom of opinion but hates that college students and professors at a public university speak their minds and have opinions he does not agree with.

I will say this. Everyone has a right to speak their mind. I have no issues with these people speaking their mind. I do have issues when these institutions do things that punish people they don't agree with for doing the same. Not allowing conservative speakers for example to speak, or grading a paper lower for taking a position that contradicts the professors personal beliefs. And don't get me started on the censorship that sometimes happens on youtube and facebook and similar sites.


I have heard of instructors lowering grades because of different opinions at Oral Roberts University, Liberty University, UC Santa Cruz, Columbia, so that point is moot.

College is a place for people to speak their minds. It is generally the first place people are free to express themselves openly. Especially public schools. Students are generally the ones leading protests against conservative speakers, not faculty. Some faculty may back the students, but it is the students leading the protests.

Which brings up another interesting point: If these kids protest against the conservative speakers but not progressive ones, why is that?

apodino wrote:
seb146 wrote:
So, the courts are being stacked in favor of Biblical law over Constitutional law. Marriage equality, even though it has been ruled to be the law of the land, will be overturned. Abortions will be severely limited, redistricting to water down any vote other than right will be acceptable.


I wonder how often John Roberts will side with "liberals" in some of these cases. I know he leans more right but I can see him siding with RBG and Sotomayor on many cases and having a 5-4 majority for "liberals."


Here is what I don't get about the same sex marriage debate. The democrats controlled both houses of congress and the White House after Obama was elected and they could have easily passed a law then to overturn the Defense of Marriage act. They didn't do it. Same Sex marriage is not defined in any legal document, all that is stated is that marriage is between a man and a woman. The 14th amendment can be interpreted in a number of ways. One way is that every man has the same opportunity to marry a woman and vice versa. Every individual has that equal right. If it is interpreted that way, then there is nothing unconstitutional about the defense of marriage act. The way that it was interpreted in the recent SCOTUS ruling was that because it didn't allow for same sex couples to enjoy the same marriage benefits as opposite sex couples it was unconstitutional. Where I think the court erred is that by that definition, the institution of marriage as defined by law at the time was unconstitutional. I believe the powers of the judiciary end there. However, instead of declaring marriage unconstitutional, they rewrote it from the bench. By doing so, they opened up the possibility of unelected judges in the future who have a different view of the constitution to rule differently. Every other country on the planet that has enacted same sex marriage has done so legislatively. We should do so in this country. If we did, there is no way that a conservative judge would ever vote against it. Same with other hot button issues like abortion, and Health Care. These are best left to the legislative process, and not the judicial process. Roberts recognized this and that's why Obamacare is still around. Abortion was never decided legislatively. And if you look at history, the right for blacks to vote, the right for women to vote, all came through the legislative process. The courts never decided any of these issues. I would have no issue with Same Sex marriage being passed legislatively, and I think it should be because its the only way to prevent judges from overturning Oberfell.


Maybe Democrats did not rush through a marriage equality bill because they did not want to piss off the evangelicals? Maybe they wanted airtight wording so evangelicals would not have much to complain about other than "Obama did this so it is bad"? I don't get why it is so bad to support two consenting adults signing a government contract? That is, essentially, what we are debating. That is, essentially, what LGBTQ want. To be able to sign the exact same legal contract with whomever they love. Just like tRump did three times.

I don't believe that the conservative justices practice Christian law, but I do believe they practice constitutional law. You and I can differ on what we believe that means. As far as redistricting goes, this is another area that Congress needs to address, because the constitution and federal law based on my limited knowledge dont seem to provide any firm rules on this, and it can be argued that the tenth amendment applies in this situation. Which leaves it up to the states.


Evangelical voters and law makers want justices to interpret the Constitution through the lens of the Bible. They have said this for years.

To summarize my thoughts. Laws should be passed to protect same sex couples rights period, rather than reliance on court rulings. Conservatives should not rely on courts overturning Roe V Wade to reduce abortions, but should be doing other things to actually help these women out. Kavanaugh is a judge who I believe will follow the constitution and will interpret the law and not make the law. And no American should every rely on a court to implement change or protect rights that arent clearly spelled out. Thats the job of Congress. And its a job they really need to actually start doing.


I have said it before and I will say it again: if it is not specifically written into law, conservatives will sue until groups are excluded from the law. Equal protection should apply equally, but certain words were not included in the Fourteenth Amendment. So, laws had to be passed, based on the Fourteenth Amendment to clarify what citizens can do. I wish I could say I was confident as you in this pick, but equal rights will be set back if he is confirmed.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Bricktop
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:58 pm

seb146 wrote:
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-anthony-kennedy-brett-kavanaugh-corrupt-secret-deal-13fd59473ecf/

Kennedy reportedly recieved assurances from tRump that Kavanaugh would replace him. Other questions were simply dodged.


Even if true, so what? Seems like a smart move all around.

seb146 wrote:
Why is he allowed to seat a Supreme Court justice, anyway? He is under investigation!

Innocent until proven guilty unless I disagree with you. Got it. :thumbsup:
 
seb146
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:59 pm

Besides legislating from the bench, Kavanaugh will also be against comsumer protections.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/10/scotus- ... bench.html

CFPB was set up after the Republican Financial Collapse of 2008 to protect consumers. It has been slowly dismantled by Republicans over the past two years.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:59 pm

seb146 wrote:
Besides legislating from the bench, Kavanaugh will also be against comsumer protections.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/10/scotus- ... bench.html

CFPB was set up after the Republican Financial Collapse of 2008 to protect consumers. It has been slowly dismantled by Republicans over the past two years.

If the Obama led CFPB had not exceeded the scope of its authority this wouldn't be an issue. Obama, rather than getting the proper legislation in place, did an end run. The consequences of that are coming home.

Yup. You are going to get a LOT of this from Kavanaugh. And that's exactly why Trump picked him. I know that it shocks you, but this is EXACTLY why the conservatives want him. They don't want a President to be able to do what is supposed to be done in by the Congress.

Ironically, the liberals are SO afraid of Trump, yet they are opposed to a Supreme Court Justice who limit the power of the President.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:03 pm

seb146 wrote:
If you retire, I will replace you with your pick. How is that not sketchy?

Deals are made all of the time in politics. Do you have any authority to suggest that it would be improper to make such a deal?

seb146 wrote:
We had to go a year with eight Justices because Mitch McConnell refused to have confirmation hearings on Obama's nominee. That was the only reason. Just cuz. That was fine but colluding with Russia should be overlooked?

Do you have any authority that says that a President that is "under investigation" cannot nominate a Supreme Court Justice? This isn't about feelz. There are things called laws that I am much more interested in.

seb146 wrote:
BTW, this Kavanaugh guy was helping Ken Starr dig and dig and dig and dig until Bill said "I did not have sex with that woman..."

Sounds like he was one hell of a talented prosecutor.
 
seb146
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:03 pm

Bricktop wrote:
seb146 wrote:
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-anthony-kennedy-brett-kavanaugh-corrupt-secret-deal-13fd59473ecf/

Kennedy reportedly recieved assurances from tRump that Kavanaugh would replace him. Other questions were simply dodged.


Even if true, so what? Seems like a smart move all around.


If you retire, I will replace you with your pick. How is that not sketchy?

Bricktop wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Why is he allowed to seat a Supreme Court justice, anyway? He is under investigation!

Innocent until proven guilty unless I disagree with you. Got it. :thumbsup:


We had to go a year with eight Justices because Mitch McConnell refused to have confirmation hearings on Obama's nominee. That was the only reason. Just cuz. That was fine but colluding with Russia should be overlooked? I am not even going to go down the "keep investigating the Clintons" road.

BTW, this Kavanaugh guy was helping Ken Starr dig and dig and dig and dig until Bill said "I did not have sex with that woman..." That was Bill's only crime, BTW. Lying about having consentual relations with an adult woman. But working with Russia to get elected? Not a problem. Nothing to see here. Move along.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:09 pm

casinterest wrote:
Go back and reread my statement.
Didn't call him that. But thanks for missing the point.



We got the point, you didn't call that though you really want to call him that but it's ok it backfired on you in the last election and will continue to do so as long as you show us no policy and continue to fearmonger with your toxic rhetoric.
The Juice is loose and he is in Vegas!
 
Bricktop
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:16 pm

seb146 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
seb146 wrote:
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-anthony-kennedy-brett-kavanaugh-corrupt-secret-deal-13fd59473ecf/

Kennedy reportedly recieved assurances from tRump that Kavanaugh would replace him. Other questions were simply dodged.


Even if true, so what? Seems like a smart move all around.


If you retire, I will replace you with your pick. How is that not sketchy?


Why do I think if it was a Democrat, you'd think it was genius?

seb146 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Why is he allowed to seat a Supreme Court justice, anyway? He is under investigation!

Innocent until proven guilty unless I disagree with you. Got it. :thumbsup:


We had to go a year with eight Justices because Mitch McConnell refused to have confirmation hearings on Obama's nominee. That was the only reason. Just cuz.


Not "just cuz". You make it seem so arbitrary, and miss the nuance.

seb146 wrote:
That was fine but colluding with Russia should be overlooked? I am not even going to go down the "keep investigating the Clintons" road.

Who the eff is overlooking "colluding with Russia"? Does the name Robert Mueller ring a bell?

seb146 wrote:
BTW, this Kavanaugh guy was helping Ken Starr dig and dig and dig and dig until Bill said "I did not have sex with that woman..." That was Bill's only crime, BTW. Lying about having consentual relations with an adult woman.

Lying under oath is all Mueller has gotten anyone on thus far. And if you think that POTUS and a 22 year old intern are equal partners in a relationship, you should read up on the #metoo issue.

seb146 wrote:
But working with Russia to get elected? Not a problem. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Not even a hint of proof, so yes, nothing to see here. Move along.
 
trpmb6
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:36 pm

I've been talking to a few fellow conservatives, we all agree that the liberals overplayed the abortion hand. It caused Trump to steer away from Amy Barret who wouldn't have been confirmed with Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski's views. Now we have a nominee who will move through easily, who isnt a far right conservative and is a lot more moderate by comparison.
 
Casobs
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:43 pm

seb146 wrote:
https://thinkprogress.org/trump-anthony-kennedy-brett-kavanaugh-corrupt-secret-deal-13fd59473ecf/

Kennedy reportedly recieved assurances from tRump that Kavanaugh would replace him. Other questions were simply dodged.

Why is he allowed to seat a Supreme Court justice, anyway? He is under investigation!


He's not been charged with or convicted of a crime.

You know this.
 
seb146
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:11 pm

Bricktop wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:

Even if true, so what? Seems like a smart move all around.


If you retire, I will replace you with your pick. How is that not sketchy?


Why do I think if it was a Democrat, you'd think it was genius?


Because you are assuming.

Bricktop wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Innocent until proven guilty unless I disagree with you. Got it. :thumbsup:


We had to go a year with eight Justices because Mitch McConnell refused to have confirmation hearings on Obama's nominee. That was the only reason. Just cuz.


Not "just cuz". You make it seem so arbitrary, and miss the nuance.


Which was? Don't let a sitting president have his Supreme Court nominee because the election was nine months out? The same guy who blocked Merrick Garlind's nomination also said there was precedent for not having hearings. That was a lie.

Bricktop wrote:
seb146 wrote:
That was fine but colluding with Russia should be overlooked? I am not even going to go down the "keep investigating the Clintons" road.

Who the eff is overlooking "colluding with Russia"? Does the name Robert Mueller ring a bell?


So, because you specifically bring this point up, we should just let it go and give him this seat? At least Mueller has not changed the scope of the investigation just to play "gotcha."

Bricktop wrote:
seb146 wrote:
BTW, this Kavanaugh guy was helping Ken Starr dig and dig and dig and dig until Bill said "I did not have sex with that woman..." That was Bill's only crime, BTW. Lying about having consentual relations with an adult woman.

Lying under oath is all Mueller has gotten anyone on thus far. And if you think that POTUS and a 22 year old intern are equal partners in a relationship, you should read up on the #metoo issue.


Lying about a consensual affair is vastly different than lying about having contact with Russia and why. Monica had every opportunity to say no. She did not. Bill had every opportunity to say no. He did not. Equal partners.

Bricktop wrote:
seb146 wrote:
But working with Russia to get elected? Not a problem. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Not even a hint of proof, so yes, nothing to see here. Move along.


There are twenty two under arrest that say otherwise. Even the Senate agreed that Russia interfered with our elections. How can you not say there is something shady going on? All these meetings with Russia before the election with tRump and his people and Russia working to get him elected? Connect dots one, two, and three. Just that simple.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:16 pm

How many times are we going to have to explain that a President who is under investigation still gets to nominate a Supreme Court Justice? It’s going to be a long few weeks.

Just as Clinton got to, so does Trump. The score is now even, I suppose.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:22 pm

seb146 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
seb146 wrote:
But working with Russia to get elected? Not a problem. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Not even a hint of proof, so yes, nothing to see here. Move along.


There are twenty two under arrest that say otherwise. Even the Senate agreed that Russia interfered with our elections. How can you not say there is something shady going on? All these meetings with Russia before the election with tRump and his people and Russia working to get him elected? Connect dots one, two, and three. Just that simple.

We can agree that Russia interfered with our elections. So did our FBI. But your alleged collusion with the Trump Campaign, and the frequent naming of Donald himself is unproven. Get proof, we'll talk.

And as an aside can you stop the misspelling of Trump? It's as pathetic and childish as all those dopes who could never mention Barack Obama without throwing in Hussein. It makes it very easy to dismiss your arguments as just regurgitated talking points.
Last edited by Bricktop on Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:25 pm

Oh, and back to SCOTUS, I have been hearing that Justice X would be the death of Roe ever since Rehnquist was named Chief. It may have happened before then, but that's my earliest recollection. And yet here we are. The same old canard being trotted out again. And Roe's still the law of the land. Go figure.
 
Casobs
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:06 am

Bricktop wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
Not even a hint of proof, so yes, nothing to see here. Move along.


There are twenty two under arrest that say otherwise. Even the Senate agreed that Russia interfered with our elections. How can you not say there is something shady going on? All these meetings with Russia before the election with tRump and his people and Russia working to get him elected? Connect dots one, two, and three. Just that simple.

We can agree that Russia interfered with our elections. So did our FBI. But your alleged collusion with the Trump Campaign, and the frequent naming of Donald himself is unproven. Get proof, we'll talk.

And as an aside can you stop the misspelling of Trump? It's as pathetic and childish as all those dopes who could never mention Barack Obama without throwing in Hussein. It makes it very easy to dismiss your arguments as just regurgitated talking points.


He's a troll. He's doing this to annoy you.
 
Casobs
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:07 am

Bricktop wrote:
Oh, and back to SCOTUS, I have been hearing that Justice X would be the death of Roe ever since Rehnquist was named Chief. It may have happened before then, but that's my earliest recollection. And yet here we are. The same old canard being trotted out again. And Roe's still the law of the land. Go figure.


He's stated publicly he believes in the stare decisis with regards to R v. W.

Abortion is going nowhere.
 
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:17 am

Despite following US politics for a decade now I still don't get this debate about abortion, but let's say the Supreme Court reverts RvW, then Congress passes a law banning abortions, so that things a clear and cut. That's still only federal law, right ? Wouldn't you expect a dozen or more states to continue allowing abortions, disregarding federal law, just like marijuana growing (or sanctuary cities) ? Wouldn't you expect many people to donate to planned parenthood, fund travel for women from "pro-life" states to "pro-choice" states, etc. ?

What then ?
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
seb146
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:16 am

Bricktop wrote:
We can agree that Russia interfered with our elections. So did our FBI. But your alleged collusion with the Trump Campaign, and the frequent naming of Donald himself is unproven. Get proof, we'll talk.


FBI? Really? Okay, Alex Jones.

tRump has met with Russians. We The People do not yet know what about. At first, someone said that Junior did not meet with any Russians at all. That was a lie. Then, he said it was about adoptions. That was a lie. Others at that meeting said the meeting did not happen. That was a lie. When they admitted, AFTER THEY LIED, that a meeting with Russians happened, they all had different stories. And, yet, YOU choose to believe the lies. Why?

And, at the same time, people like you (I did not know you then, so) were screaming and crying about "Clinton is a liar!" and "Remove him from office for lying!" and saying that "well, tRump cheated on his wives, so what?" Makes ZERO sense.

And as an aside can you stop the misspelling of Trump? It's as pathetic and childish as all those dopes who could never mention Barack Obama without throwing in Hussein. It makes it very easy to dismiss your arguments as just regurgitated talking points.


No. No, I will not stop doing what righties did to Obama for eight years. Righties sat back and did NOTHING and did not say "maybe we should treat him with respect" when Obama was disrespected over and over and over and over every hour of every day.

You are offended when I type tRump? tough. get over it.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
seb146
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:21 am

Aesma wrote:
Despite following US politics for a decade now I still don't get this debate about abortion, but let's say the Supreme Court reverts RvW, then Congress passes a law banning abortions, so that things a clear and cut. That's still only federal law, right ? Wouldn't you expect a dozen or more states to continue allowing abortions, disregarding federal law, just like marijuana growing (or sanctuary cities) ? Wouldn't you expect many people to donate to planned parenthood, fund travel for women from "pro-life" states to "pro-choice" states, etc. ?

What then ?


Moral outrage from the right and constant barrage from the right about how out of control and abortion on demand and how awful "liberal" states are. And evangelicals and conservatives will believe every letter. There would probably even be litigation over states that do have safe abortions. Catholic Charities or LDS or Salvation Army or some evangelical or right wing organization would sue based on "Congress passed this law, so states rights does not apply."
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:42 am

I think that it is good that you are venting, Seb. This has to be absolutely devastating to you. tRump has clearly gotten under your skin.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:47 am

seb146 wrote:
No. No, I will not stop doing what righties did to Obama for eight years. Righties sat back and did NOTHING and did not say "maybe we should treat him with respect" when Obama was disrespected over and over and over and over every hour of every day.

You are offended when I type tRump? tough. get over it.

That’ll show him! Treating tRump with disrespect is definitely going to change things like the makeup of the Supreme Court and win back America. We will show tRump that NOBODY disrespects us! Bitch McConnell, Deaf Seions, Lick Perry and Dyke Pence take notice!

#resistance #notmypresident #naziseverywhere #Hillary2016 #pantsuits
Last edited by VTKillarney on Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:58 am

NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Go back and reread my statement.
Didn't call him that. But thanks for missing the point.



We got the point, you didn't call that though you really want to call him that but it's ok it backfired on you in the last election and will continue to do so as long as you show us no policy and continue to fearmonger with your toxic rhetoric.


It only backfired on the ignorant cowards that voted to give me a lot of extra money, while losing their farms to a racist , lying coward of a man.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:07 am

casinterest wrote:
NIKV69 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Go back and reread my statement.
Didn't call him that. But thanks for missing the point.



We got the point, you didn't call that though you really want to call him that but it's ok it backfired on you in the last election and will continue to do so as long as you show us no policy and continue to fearmonger with your toxic rhetoric.


It only backfired on the ignorant cowards that voted to give me a lot of extra money, while losing their farms to a racist , lying coward of a man.

I sense the Democrat slogan for 2020: “American farmers are ignorant racist enabling cowards!”

It has a ring to it. You should go with it, for sure. It’ll definitely pick up some votes in Berkeley, Portland and Brooklyn where you need to gain some ground.
Last edited by VTKillarney on Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:07 am

windy95 wrote:
apodino wrote:
casinterest wrote:
Judges are there to Judge based on what the law says and implies in the current environment.

Current environment? The problem with what you wrote is that this implies that the constitution is a living document that changes not because of the amendment process but because the environment has changed. Do you even realize how dangerous this is? This line of thinking means that it is up to unelected judges to decide what the current environment is and change the law accordingly. The power to change the laws rests with congress, and the founding fathers clearly stated how the constitution is to be changed. It clearly does not give the Supreme court that power. However, using your logic, we can change what the constitution means because the environment dictates as such.

You are correct in that the Court is there to put a check on the executive branch and to prevent congress from passing laws that don't conform to constitutional standards. One example of such a case is Citizens United. It is true that our founding fathers never intended for money to dominate politics the way it has, However, the constitution is pretty clear as originally written that freedom of speech is guaranteed and that Citizens United wrongly supressed that right. No action ever undertaken to amend the consititution as it relates to this issue was ever undertaken. This the law is legally unconstitutional, which the Supreme Court rightly decided. Under your line of thinking, the current environment would dictate that because these interest groups have more money than most middle class people, they no longer have a first amendment right, and thus Citizens United should stand.

Did you know that if the Constitution specifically says a woman has a right to an abortion or marriage is defined as any two people regardless of gender, none of these issues would be in any danger whatsoever from being overturned?


Bingo...I also interpreted his comment on "current environment" as the living document argument. The courts are there to rule on the law as it was written. Some people want to skip the amendment process and go right to judicial activism when it comes to the constitution. SCOTUS does not make policy or laws.


Citizens United takes away the one person one vote , as it unbalances power. Their can't and won't be a constitutional amendment as the cowards that represent the GOP depend on taking bribes to further suppress votes . Constitutional Amendments require a huge majority to enact, and in the past we have has some overturned. It is in that void that Judges must rule. They have to way the existing Amendments and what they say vs the new challenges that arise.

Take for instance DOMA. DOMA arose because the Federal Government tried to define marriage and take away states rights to do so.
It was unconstitutional.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
FreequentFlier
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:13 am

Aesma wrote:
Despite following US politics for a decade now I still don't get this debate about abortion, but let's say the Supreme Court reverts RvW, then Congress passes a law banning abortions, so that things a clear and cut. That's still only federal law, right ? Wouldn't you expect a dozen or more states to continue allowing abortions, disregarding federal law, just like marijuana growing (or sanctuary cities) ? Wouldn't you expect many people to donate to planned parenthood, fund travel for women from "pro-life" states to "pro-choice" states, etc. ?

What then ?


It's highly unlikely that there will ever be a federal law of significance that affects abortion - the issue is too polarizing. What overturning Roe v. Wade does is simply return the issue to the states, which is where it should have been all along. I'm relatively pro-choice and support overturning Roe v. Wade for this very reason. A LOT of people mistakenly people that overturning Roe v Wade bans abortion, which is just factually incorrect.

For all the talk about American theocracy (!!!), the current US policy on abortion (which is essentially almost without restriction) is significantly far to the left of even most European nations, where abortion is banned in most cases at 20 weeks or sometimes even earlier.
 
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:23 am

seb146 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
We can agree that Russia interfered with our elections. So did our FBI. But your alleged collusion with the Trump Campaign, and the frequent naming of Donald himself is unproven. Get proof, we'll talk.


FBI? Really? Okay, Alex Jones.

tRump has met with Russians. We The People do not yet know what about. At first, someone said that Junior did not meet with any Russians at all. That was a lie. Then, he said it was about adoptions. That was a lie. Others at that meeting said the meeting did not happen. That was a lie. When they admitted, AFTER THEY LIED, that a meeting with Russians happened, they all had different stories. And, yet, YOU choose to believe the lies. Why?

And, at the same time, people like you (I did not know you then, so) were screaming and crying about "Clinton is a liar!" and "Remove him from office for lying!" and saying that "well, tRump cheated on his wives, so what?" Makes ZERO sense.

And as an aside can you stop the misspelling of Trump? It's as pathetic and childish as all those dopes who could never mention Barack Obama without throwing in Hussein. It makes it very easy to dismiss your arguments as just regurgitated talking points.


No. No, I will not stop doing what righties did to Obama for eight years. Righties sat back and did NOTHING and did not say "maybe we should treat him with respect" when Obama was disrespected over and over and over and over every hour of every day.

You are offended when I type tRump? tough. get over it.


The Left DESPERATELY needs to disabuse itself of the notion that Obama had a successful presidency. Successful presidencies don't get succeeded by people like Donald Trump....

Obama was a complete and total failure and the first President in nearly 100 years to not have even a single year of GDP growth of 3% or higher, despite the fact that the US was coming out of a recession, where "U shaped" or "V-shaped" recoveries typically result in higher GDP growth than normal. The typical American saw their real income decline during Obama's 2 terms, and that's how you got Trump. The only people that thrived under Obama were well to do cosmopolitans who are largely focused on social issues - a demographic that is ridiculously over-represented in the media and on television. These folks convinced themselves they were the only ones that mattered, and now they're less relevant in political life than perhaps they have ever been.
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:44 am

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:

Turning a blind eye to Nazis? You must feel pretty good about that I guess.

Translation: By not being a Nazi you are a Nazi.

Got it.


I never called him a Nazi. I just think its a poor idea to ignore the rise in Nazi sentiment in this country. But he's willing to do that in order to feel good about supporting Trump.



When DJT announced his run for the Presidency in 2015, I was totally focused on his plans for America, and the direction that I thought he was going to take the country. I was not "ignoring" Nazi sentiment in order to feel good about supporting Trump. I was on board on June 16, 2015. I did not care what the Nazis or the Lincoln Log Republicans thought of DJT.

I'm not here for my views about DJT to be picked apart. Don't need it. Make your argument against Trump, and not me. I will not add to or clarify my above remarks for you, or for anyone else. The DJT train has left the station, and I'm on it, and I don't have to, or will go on endless explanations and clarifications of what "I" like.

I suppose NAMBLA was not a big Trump supporter. Either way, it's the Left who continue to make poor choices based on Judicial Activism.

You either go with the Constitution as written, or you don't. SCOTUS judges should not be looking at polls about anything. We're a nation of Laws. Judges are are *not* act as "Super-Legislators," no matter how that helps any one person or persons.

I don't know why people are so worried Kavanaugh may not being conservative enough. I believe there are several other SCOTUS judges to be replaced by President Trump, and when that Super Majority is there, even they can fix any screw-ups that a Justice Kavanaugh or Roberts may have made.

All this mud-slinging about the "Rs" not being "fair" about the Merrick Garland pick, and now the Kavanaugh pick before the mid-terms is simply *not* going to get any traction. Fairness was eliminated with the Borking of Robert Bork.

Wake Up America .... We live under a Constitution ! ! !
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Aesma
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:29 am

From what I read your constitution doesn't define the number of judges the Supreme Court has so if/when the Democrats get control back they could add 4 or 6 new judges to it just to swing it the other way.

I'm sure fun will ensue.

I totally agree that the fact this court has so much power is a design flaw. If it hadn't maybe legislators would do their jobs and actually write some laws for a change.

I wouldn't call late abortions (for no good reason) a left/right issue, rather a mess created by this lack of a law. In my country things are clear cut and nobody on the left or right is asking for any change. Late abortions are possible only for medical reasons, typically an anomaly with the fetus. Consequently we have very few newborns with Down's syndrome for example.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Bricktop
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:11 am

seb146 wrote:
Bricktop wrote:
We can agree that Russia interfered with our elections. So did our FBI. But your alleged collusion with the Trump Campaign, and the frequent naming of Donald himself is unproven. Get proof, we'll talk.


FBI? Really? Okay, Alex Jones.


Maybe you should ask Hillary about James Comey. C'mon man, read your talking points. You may not understand them but you can at least repeat them back.

seb146 wrote:
No. No, I will not stop doing what righties did to Obama for eight years. Righties sat back and did NOTHING and did not say "maybe we should treat him with respect" when Obama was disrespected over and over and over and over every hour of every day.

You are offended when I type tRump? tough. get over it.

Couldn't care less. It just speaks to how irredeemably hate-filled and intransigent you are. I don't do :banghead:, so I will stop here.
 
Bricktop
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:34 am

Aesma wrote:
From what I read your constitution doesn't define the number of judges the Supreme Court has so if/when the Democrats get control back they could add 4 or 6 new judges to it just to swing it the other way.

I'm sure fun will ensue.

I totally agree that the fact this court has so much power is a design flaw. If it hadn't maybe legislators would do their jobs and actually write some laws for a change.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt tried to "pack the court" in the 1930's by wanting to expand it to 15 but it never went anywhere. I can't envision a scenario where something like that would happen, but then again I didn't think Germany would go out in the group stages of the World Cup. :o

As for the power of the court, it only gets that way when one or more of the other branches are not doing their job. I think the system of checks and balances works pretty well for the most part. They reign each other in. The President appoints the Justices: The Legislative Branch has to approve them (called "advise and consent" in our system), and then they are there for life pretty much, to be presumably above political pressure. Barack Obama loved to say "elections have consequences" and his supporters relished rubbing that phrase into their opponents faces. Inevitably, it has come back to bite them. And nowhere does it say the SCOTUS has to be "balanced". If you don't want to be on the wrong end of every 5-4 or 6-3 decision, win the Presidency. Believe me, Democrats were high-fiving each other so hard that they were running against a joke candidate that they didn't see how incredibly flawed their own campaign was. Elections have consequences.
 
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:02 am

VTKillarney wrote:
The point is completely lost on you.

Let me repeat it. Both parties have whackos. Defining an entire party based solely on its fringe whackos is intellectually dishonest. Period.

And yet I can quote several instances of you on this forum insisting that such wackos are the new left.

Thanks for accepting that.
"You haven't seen a tree until you've seen its shadow from the sky."
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:10 am

einsteinboricua wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
The point is completely lost on you.

Let me repeat it. Both parties have whackos. Defining an entire party based solely on its fringe whackos is intellectually dishonest. Period.

And yet I can quote several instances of you on this forum insisting that such wackos are the new left.

Thanks for accepting that.

Nice try.

Shooting baseball playing Congressmen: not the new left

Irrational paranoia: the new left

Distorting facts: the new left

Notice I said fringe whackos. The left has plenty of mainstream whackos. Most leftists believe that Trump is a fascist. Most leftists believe that the gender pay gap is primarily the product of sexism. Most leftists have embraced an evidentiary standard that would embarrass Alex Jones.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ps/530736/


Most right wingers aren’t Nazis.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:00 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
The point is completely lost on you.

Let me repeat it. Both parties have whackos. Defining an entire party based solely on its fringe whackos is intellectually dishonest. Period.

And yet I can quote several instances of you on this forum insisting that such wackos are the new left.

Thanks for accepting that.

Nice try.

Shooting baseball playing Congressmen: not the new left

Irrational paranoia: the new left

Distorting facts: the new left

Notice I said fringe whackos. The left has plenty of mainstream whackos. Most leftists believe that Trump is a fascist. Most leftists believe that the gender pay gap is primarily the product of sexism. Most leftists have embraced an evidentiary standard that would embarrass Alex Jones.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ps/530736/


Most right wingers aren’t Nazis.


I think you mistake Irrational Paranoia. The GOP is the side pushing the mexican rapists, and murders line on the border protection side. The GOP is pushing the oppressed religion , when it is the religions that want to inject themselves in others lives.

Trump is a facist. He is only limited by the current constraints of the US Government.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... ccounter=1

"For those who doubt, perhaps we can turn the question around. Let’s apply the LBJ test and see if Trump can deny it. How often has Trump proved himself not to be fascist and a supporter of democracy? I don’t mean his own imbecilic boasting, but democracy in general? How often has he championed freedom of speech (for everyone)? Or praised an opponent? Or publicly favoured minority rights? Never. Trump’s inclination may not be the full-throated marching fascism of the past but, as Umberto Eco pointed out, it can change forms. So we should assume the worst and point out the worst. Never normalise, never accept. Primo Levi’s warning echoes back to us “it happened, so it can happen again”."
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
2122M
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:22 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
The point is completely lost on you.

Let me repeat it. Both parties have whackos. Defining an entire party based solely on its fringe whackos is intellectually dishonest. Period.

And yet I can quote several instances of you on this forum insisting that such wackos are the new left.

Thanks for accepting that.

Nice try.

Shooting baseball playing Congressmen: not the new left

Irrational paranoia: the new left

Distorting facts: the new left

Notice I said fringe whackos. The left has plenty of mainstream whackos. Most leftists believe that Trump is a fascist. Most leftists believe that the gender pay gap is primarily the product of sexism. Most leftists have embraced an evidentiary standard that would embarrass Alex Jones.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ps/530736/


Most right wingers aren’t Nazis.


That is brilliant. Your argument is that Nazis are fringe right-wingers, just like equal pay proponents are fringe left-wingers.

You actually equated Nazis to people who support equal pay for women in terms of how radical and fringe they are.

How desperate are you to minimize the support of Nazi's for Trump?

You guys can justify and ignore and deflect all you want, but at the end of they day you will be standing shoulder to shoulder with the very worst that America has to offer when you show up to support this president.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:35 pm

casinterest wrote:
Trump is a facist. He is only limited by the current constraints of the US Government.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... ccounter=1[i][size=85]


This sums up perfectly the way the left thinks.

I posted a well reasoned, detailed analysis that Trump is not a fascist based on interviews with scholars of fascism.
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/1 ... -democracy

You rely on a fairly vague opinion piece by one lecturer with absolutely no expertise in fascism.
http://www.bbk.ac.uk/politics/our-staff ... ben-worthy

And yet you unilaterally declare that Trump is a fascist. If that is how you weigh evidence, you simply can never be believed due to your deep susceptibility to confirmation bias.

And even then... you point out that our systems will not actually let Trump effectuate fascism. A tacit admission that the threat is illusory.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the new left.
Last edited by VTKillarney on Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:40 pm

2122M wrote:
That is brilliant. Your argument is that Nazis are fringe right-wingers, just like equal pay proponents are fringe left-wingers.

You actually equated Nazis to people who support equal pay for women in terms of how radical and fringe they are.

Sorry, but you don't get to make up what I said.

I did NOT say that "equal pay proponents are fringe left-wingers." (For the record, being an equal pay proponent is entirely laudable.)

I said that "most leftists believe that the gender pay gap is primarily the product of sexism."

There is a HUGE difference in those two statements.

Some reading for you:
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-tru ... o-podcast/
 
2122M
Posts: 481
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:53 pm

VTKillarney wrote:

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the new left.


Love your new catch phrase. By the way, congrats on 54 posts yesterday alone! Looks like you managed to get a few hours of sleep in, but all in all, that's a real solid days work defending Trump. Especially noteworthy that a 'moderate' such as yourself would spend all that time fighting his battles for him.

Fascism is very hard to define. By some accounts its just very idea of putting the nation above the individual and aggressively protecting the nation from any outside influence. By that account Trump fits the bill. Other definitions require a propensity to violence or a few other things that don't' necessarily describe Trump. Either way, he's either a national populist or a fascist, and neither is good.
 
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VTKillarney
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:13 pm

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:54 pm

2122M wrote:
Fascism is very hard to define. By some accounts its just very idea of putting the nation above the individual and aggressively protecting the nation from any outside influence. By that account Trump fits the bill. Other definitions require a propensity to violence or a few other things that don't' necessarily describe Trump. Either way, he's either a national populist or a fascist, and neither is good.

No, it's really not that hard to define - unless you need to move the goal posts to conform the definition to your bias.
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/1 ... -democracy
 
2122M
Posts: 481
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:55 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
2122M wrote:
That is brilliant. Your argument is that Nazis are fringe right-wingers, just like equal pay proponents are fringe left-wingers.

You actually equated Nazis to people who support equal pay for women in terms of how radical and fringe they are.

Sorry, but you don't get to make up what I said.

I did NOT say that "equal pay proponents are fringe left-wingers." (For the record, being an equal pay proponent is entirely laudable.)

I said that "most leftists believe that the gender pay gap is primarily the product of sexism."

There is a HUGE difference in those two statements.

Some reading for you:
http://freakonomics.com/podcast/the-tru ... o-podcast/


Again, You can justify and ignore and deflect all you want, but at the end of they day you will be standing shoulder to shoulder with the very worst that America has to offer when you show up to support this president.
 
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VTKillarney
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:13 pm

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:55 pm

2122M wrote:
Again, You can justify and ignore and deflect all you want, but at the end of they day you will be standing shoulder to shoulder with the very worst that America has to offer when you show up to support this president.

This argument is meaningless. The same can be said of the left.

Your argument comes full circle to what I said several posts ago: Both parties have whackos.

Deal with it.
 
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VTKillarney
Posts: 417
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:13 pm

Re: Brett Kavanaugh is Trump's pick for SCOTUS

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:57 pm

2122M wrote:
Love your new catch phrase. By the way, congrats on 54 posts yesterday alone! Looks like you managed to get a few hours of sleep in, but all in all, that's a real solid days work defending Trump. Especially noteworthy that a 'moderate' such as yourself would spend all that time fighting his battles for him.

If you can't actually attack the ideas and the arguments, I suppose attacking the person is a good last resort. Hopefully it made you feel better at least.

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