Airstud
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:30 am

seb146 wrote:
Why does the right keep telling us in the LGBTQ community that we have to go back in the closet because there are enough protections when we are being beaten and fired and murdered just for being?


Hellu.

Those things are already illegal.
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VTKillarney
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:33 am

seb146 wrote:
Why does the right keep telling us in the LGBTQ community that we have to go back in the closet because there are enough protections when we are being beaten and fired and murdered just for being?

Which jurisdictions do you believe do not have enough protections when a member of the LGBTQ community is beaten or murdered “just for being?” What specifically are they lacking?
 
seb146
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:57 am

Airstud wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Why does the right keep telling us in the LGBTQ community that we have to go back in the closet because there are enough protections when we are being beaten and fired and murdered just for being?


Hellu.

Those things are already illegal.


And the right whines and cries and litigates when they don't get to deny service and fire people for being.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:27 am

seb146 wrote:
Airstud wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Why does the right keep telling us in the LGBTQ community that we have to go back in the closet because there are enough protections when we are being beaten and fired and murdered just for being?


Hellu.

Those things are already illegal.


And the right whines and cries and litigates when they don't get to deny service and fire people for being.

That’s not responsive. If anything, it’s evidence that the right doesn’t resort to violence. Also, litigation is typically initiated by the person who wasn’t served, not the other way around.

Which jurisdictions do you believe do not have enough protections when a member of the LGBTQ community is beaten or murdered “just for being?” What specifically are they lacking?
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:11 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
If anything, it’s evidence that the right doesn’t resort to violence.

LOL oh god I can't breathe. You're hysterical. :rotfl:
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VTKillarney
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:25 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
If anything, it’s evidence that the right doesn’t resort to violence.

LOL oh god I can't breathe. You're hysterical. :rotfl:

Rather than argue by ad hominem, why don’t you make a factual argument in defense of your position?

You can start by addressing the open question:
Which jurisdictions do you believe do not have enough protections when a member of the LGBTQ community is beaten or murdered “just for being?” What specifically are they lacking?

If you genuinely want things to improve, you need to help identify the problem. That’s the difference between working to bring about change and merely complaining.
 
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OA412
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:27 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
If anything, it’s evidence that the right doesn’t resort to violence.

LOL oh god I can't breathe. You're hysterical. :rotfl:

Indeed, right wing extremist violence in this country dwarfs extremist violence by the left, refugees, Muslims, etc., etc., etc.

https://www.adl.org/resources/reports/m ... es-in-2017
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seb146
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:01 pm

OA412 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
If anything, it’s evidence that the right doesn’t resort to violence.

LOL oh god I can't breathe. You're hysterical. :rotfl:

Indeed, right wing extremist violence in this country dwarfs extremist violence by the left, refugees, Muslims, etc., etc., etc.

https://www.adl.org/resources/reports/m ... es-in-2017


Or this gem

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/05/us/c ... rimes.html

Or incels.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:39 pm

OA412 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
If anything, it’s evidence that the right doesn’t resort to violence.

LOL oh god I can't breathe. You're hysterical. :rotfl:

Indeed, right wing extremist violence in this country dwarfs extremist violence by the left, refugees, Muslims, etc., etc., etc.

https://www.adl.org/resources/reports/m ... es-in-2017

Let's do a deeper dive into the data that you provided.

The data you provided says that in 2017 the violence flipped from being predominately the product of Islamic extremism to right-wing extremism. There were a total of 34 killings among all extremist groups - right and left.

34 is 34 too many, but let's put that number into perspective. Approximately 24% of Americans identify as Republicans. Some may be right leaning and not identify as Republicans, but let's go with this number as a fair representation of the percentage of Americans that are on the right. 24% of the American population is approximately 78,168,000 people. Out of that 78 million people, in an unbelievably hypercharged political landscape, right wing killings accounted for 18 of the 34 killings. But wait... the full report says that, "Ideology seems to have played a primary or secondary role in 17 of the 34 murders (50%,)" (e.g. the report includes the killing of a KKK member by his KKK member wife.) The number of right-wing murders that actually appear to be politically motivated is 9.

What that means, is that out of more than 78 million Americans who identify with the right, the total number of killings of strangers that could be attributed to primarily to right-wing motivations was at most 9.

So this is your evidence to refute my statement that the right does not tend to resort to violence? 9 murders, committed by fewer than 7 people, out of more than 78 million people overall?

You are going to have to do MUCH better than that.

Stalin, on the left, killed 25 million people. Now that is an example of a political ideology that is prone to violence. What you have provided is anything but. Those 9 murders are absolutely tragic, but nobody can take those numbers and suggest that the right has a systemic violence problem.
 
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OA412
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:18 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
OA412 wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
LOL oh god I can't breathe. You're hysterical. :rotfl:

Indeed, right wing extremist violence in this country dwarfs extremist violence by the left, refugees, Muslims, etc., etc., etc.

https://www.adl.org/resources/reports/m ... es-in-2017

Let's do a deeper dive into the data that you provided.

The data you provided says that in 2017 the violence flipped from being predominately the product of Islamic extremism to right-wing extremism. There were a total of 34 killings among all extremist groups - right and left.

34 is 34 too many, but let's put that number into perspective. Approximately 24% of Americans identify as Republicans. Some may be right leaning and not identify as Republicans, but let's go with this number as a fair representation of the percentage of Americans that are on the right. 24% of the American population is approximately 78,168,000 people. Out of that 78 million people, in an unbelievably hypercharged political landscape, right wing killings accounted for 18 of the 34 killings. But wait... the full report says that, "Ideology seems to have played a primary or secondary role in 17 of the 34 murders (50%,)" (e.g. the report includes the killing of a KKK member by his KKK member wife.) The number of right-wing murders that actually appear to be politically motivated is 9.

What that means, is that out of more than 78 million Americans who identify with the right, the total number of killings of strangers that could be attributed to primarily to right-wing motivations was at most 9.

So this is your evidence to refute my statement that the right does not tend to resort to violence? 9 murders, committed by fewer than 7 people, out of more than 78 million people overall?

You are going to have to do MUCH better than that.

Stalin, on the left, killed 25 million people. Now that is an example of a political ideology that is prone to violence. What you have provided is anything but. Those 9 murders are absolutely tragic, but nobody can take those numbers and suggest that the right has a systemic violence problem.


It "flipped" only because there was a spike in Islamic extremism in 2016 due to Pulse. 2016 is an outlier. Over the last decade, right wing groups have been the greatest perpetrators of domestic terrorism in the US. Murder is not the only form of violence. This particular study focused on terrorist incidents. We've all seen the violence perpetrate against demonstrators at Trump rallies, including from Trump's own staff. We've all seen the video of beatings at Charlottesville. You stated that the right doesn't resort to violence. There are myriad examples refuting your statement, most of which are easily located with a simple internet search.

Also, Stalin is irrelevant to this discussion.
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VTKillarney
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:31 pm

OA412 wrote:
You stated that the right doesn't resort to violence.

No. That is not what I said. You have now moved the goal posts.

Here is what I said:
VTKillarney wrote:
seb146 wrote:
And the right whines and cries and litigates when they don't get to deny service and fire people for being.

That’s not responsive. If anything, it’s evidence that the right doesn’t resort to violence.


I stand by my comment. "Whining and crying" about something is evidence that that a person is not resorting to violence. They are "whining and crying." Not "hitting and killing."

You then introduced an ADL report about extremist killings. In response that that, I pointed out that 9 politically motivated killings, committed by 7 people out of more than 78 million total people is evidence that the right wing does not "tend to resort to violence." I stand by that comment as well.

OA412 wrote:
Also, Stalin is irrelevant to this discussion.

In any discussion of political ideology being associated with killing, Stalin is ALWAYS relevant. 25 million corpses would tend to agree.
 
2122M
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:57 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
OA412 wrote:
You stated that the right doesn't resort to violence.

No. That is not what I said. You have now moved the goal posts.

Here is what I said:
VTKillarney wrote:
seb146 wrote:
And the right whines and cries and litigates when they don't get to deny service and fire people for being.

That’s not responsive. If anything, it’s evidence that the right doesn’t resort to violence.


I stand by my comment. "Whining and crying" about something is evidence that that a person is not resorting to violence. They are "whining and crying." Not "hitting and killing."

You then introduced an ADL report about extremist killings. In response that that, I pointed out that 9 politically motivated killings, committed by 7 people out of more than 78 million total people is evidence that the right wing does not "tend to resort to violence." I stand by that comment as well.

OA412 wrote:
Also, Stalin is irrelevant to this discussion.

In any discussion of political ideology being associated with killing, Stalin is ALWAYS relevant. 25 million corpses would tend to agree.


In another thread, you said NOT to equate all righties to Nazis. That doing so was intellectually dis-honest. But here you are casually tossing about Stalin as a poster boy for the left.

Interesting.
 
bagoldex
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:05 pm

2122M wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
OA412 wrote:
You stated that the right doesn't resort to violence.

No. That is not what I said. You have now moved the goal posts.

Here is what I said:
VTKillarney wrote:
That’s not responsive. If anything, it’s evidence that the right doesn’t resort to violence.


I stand by my comment. "Whining and crying" about something is evidence that that a person is not resorting to violence. They are "whining and crying." Not "hitting and killing."

You then introduced an ADL report about extremist killings. In response that that, I pointed out that 9 politically motivated killings, committed by 7 people out of more than 78 million total people is evidence that the right wing does not "tend to resort to violence." I stand by that comment as well.

OA412 wrote:
Also, Stalin is irrelevant to this discussion.

In any discussion of political ideology being associated with killing, Stalin is ALWAYS relevant. 25 million corpses would tend to agree.


In another thread, you said NOT to equate all righties to Nazis. That doing so was intellectually dis-honest. But here you are casually tossing about Stalin as a poster boy for the left.

Interesting.


It fits his narrative. Ignore him and he'll go away. I don't see why people continue to engage him.
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:08 pm

2122M wrote:
In another thread, you said NOT to equate all righties to Nazis. That doing so was intellectually dis-honest. But here you are casually tossing about Stalin as a poster boy for the left.

Interesting.

Yes. I believe that communism is prone to violence. North Korea, China, Russia. All very good examples.

Are you really suggesting that it is not? Really? Unless... wait a minute... are you saying that Stalin was really a Democrat??????????
 
Casobs
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:10 am

OA412 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
OA412 wrote:
Indeed, right wing extremist violence in this country dwarfs extremist violence by the left, refugees, Muslims, etc., etc., etc.

https://www.adl.org/resources/reports/m ... es-in-2017

Let's do a deeper dive into the data that you provided.

The data you provided says that in 2017 the violence flipped from being predominately the product of Islamic extremism to right-wing extremism. There were a total of 34 killings among all extremist groups - right and left.

34 is 34 too many, but let's put that number into perspective. Approximately 24% of Americans identify as Republicans. Some may be right leaning and not identify as Republicans, but let's go with this number as a fair representation of the percentage of Americans that are on the right. 24% of the American population is approximately 78,168,000 people. Out of that 78 million people, in an unbelievably hypercharged political landscape, right wing killings accounted for 18 of the 34 killings. But wait... the full report says that, "Ideology seems to have played a primary or secondary role in 17 of the 34 murders (50%,)" (e.g. the report includes the killing of a KKK member by his KKK member wife.) The number of right-wing murders that actually appear to be politically motivated is 9.

What that means, is that out of more than 78 million Americans who identify with the right, the total number of killings of strangers that could be attributed to primarily to right-wing motivations was at most 9.

So this is your evidence to refute my statement that the right does not tend to resort to violence? 9 murders, committed by fewer than 7 people, out of more than 78 million people overall?

You are going to have to do MUCH better than that.

Stalin, on the left, killed 25 million people. Now that is an example of a political ideology that is prone to violence. What you have provided is anything but. Those 9 murders are absolutely tragic, but nobody can take those numbers and suggest that the right has a systemic violence problem.


It "flipped" only because there was a spike in Islamic extremism in 2016 due to Pulse. 2016 is an outlier. Over the last decade, right wing groups have been the greatest perpetrators of domestic terrorism in the US. Murder is not the only form of violence. This particular study focused on terrorist incidents. We've all seen the violence perpetrate against demonstrators at Trump rallies, including from Trump's own staff. We've all seen the video of beatings at Charlottesville. You stated that the right doesn't resort to violence. There are myriad examples refuting your statement, most of which are easily located with a simple internet search.

Also, Stalin is irrelevant to this discussion.


Why are you ignoring the weekly violent riots in Portland and other cities? Antifa showing up with bats and fighting protesters. They are targeting people with violence. Literally all of the violence in those interactions are initiated by violent leftists.

There are a lot of violent leftists in Venezuela that would beg to differ as well. Conform or be silenced.......
 
cargolex
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:40 am

Casobs wrote:
Why are you ignoring the weekly violent riots in Portland and other cities? Antifa showing up with bats and fighting protesters. They are targeting people with violence. Literally all of the violence in those interactions are initiated by violent leftists..


Perhaps because these things you're talking about simply aren't real and don't actually happen? There definitely aren't riots every week in Portland or anywhere else in the United States.

It's interesting, we used to have another name besides Antifa for people who fought fascism. They were called "Americans."
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:52 am

cargolex wrote:
Casobs wrote:
Why are you ignoring the weekly violent riots in Portland and other cities? Antifa showing up with bats and fighting protesters. They are targeting people with violence. Literally all of the violence in those interactions are initiated by violent leftists..


Perhaps because these things you're talking about simply aren't real and don't actually happen? There definitely aren't riots every week in Portland or anywhere else in the United States.

It's interesting, we used to have another name besides Antifa for people who fought fascism. They were called "Americans."


Americans have more common sense.
https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/1 ... -democracy
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:33 am

cargolex wrote:
It's interesting, we used to have another name besides Antifa for people who fought fascism. They were called "Americans."


In WW2, fascism was fought with weapons because it was a life or death struggle against armed belligerent nations.

Today's Antifa crowd uses weapons to fight in hopes of preventing speech they disagree with from taking place.

Kind of a big difference, wouldn't you say?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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cargolex
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:13 am

EA CO AS wrote:
cargolex wrote:
It's interesting, we used to have another name besides Antifa for people who fought fascism. They were called "Americans."


In WW2, fascism was fought with weapons because it was a life or death struggle against armed belligerent nations.


Fascism was allowed to spread because supposedly "otherwise good people" voted for and endorsed policies of ethno-nationalism, just like those of the American right today. But I get what you're saying. Some Americans were very sympathetic to the Nazis, to Italian fascists, and even to Franco, and thought fascism was a good idea, and could only be cajoled into fighting fascism after we were attacked by another nation with considerable loss of life. Thanks to you for reminding us that the children and grandchildren of those people are still out there.
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:44 am

cargolex wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
cargolex wrote:
It's interesting, we used to have another name besides Antifa for people who fought fascism. They were called "Americans."


In WW2, fascism was fought with weapons because it was a life or death struggle against armed belligerent nations.


Fascism was allowed to spread because supposedly "otherwise good people" voted for and endorsed policies of ethno-nationalism, just like those of the American right today. .


I'd argue that the "otherwise good people" in today's instance ARE the Antifa folks; they're so determined to stifle independent thought and speech that doesn't conform to what they believe that they're willing to engage in mob tactics and violence. It's not the right that's going fascist - it's the left.

Seriously, you don't see that? At all?
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
cargolex
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:14 pm

EA CO AS wrote:

I'd argue that the "otherwise good people" in today's instance ARE the Antifa folks; they're so determined to stifle independent thought and speech that doesn't conform to what they believe that they're willing to engage in mob tactics and violence. It's not the right that's going fascist - it's the left.

Seriously, you don't see that? At all?


No, I don't.

What I see is that a small group of people who may or may not be any kind of actual organization show up to things like the Unite the Right Rally in which Right-wing demonstrators killed an innocent civilian and beat several others into the hospital, and somehow, it's the smaller group of people wearing masks showing up to counter demonstrate that are in the wrong in your eyes.

The right, of course, has the tactic of state violence on its side. One of those gentleman who was beaten into the hospital was later arrested because one of his attackers went to a magristrate and made that happen. The charges were later dropped and some of his attackers were indeed tracked down and arrested - not because the authorities wanted to, but because they were forced to through public pressure.

Then there's right wing politicians openly encouraging people to mow down protestors with cars, and even going so far as to draft legal protections in some states for people who hit protestors with cars. I'm sure you want not responsibility for that, Mr. "Party of personal responsibility."

This "Freedom of Speech" argument is typically used to defend the worst kind of speech - that of the Alt-Right, who unlike Antifa are an actual real movement who really have killed actual people. But you know, your guy says it's all the same, right, and there are good people on both sides.

I have yet to see a "good" neo nazi.

But you know, when you have a quote from St. Reagan, who began his 1980 campaign with dogwhistling in the very place where civil rights activists were murdered by the 1960s version of the alt-right, as a daily reminder of how little you value your society, I guess you have a different perspective on things.

You may not think of yourself as being Racist or supporting Fascism, but you're certainly okay with co-signing these things if it gets you lower taxes, which makes you basically okay with them.
 
Casobs
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:37 pm

cargolex wrote:
Casobs wrote:
Why are you ignoring the weekly violent riots in Portland and other cities? Antifa showing up with bats and fighting protesters. They are targeting people with violence. Literally all of the violence in those interactions are initiated by violent leftists..


Perhaps because these things you're talking about simply aren't real and don't actually happen? There definitely aren't riots every week in Portland or anywhere else in the United States.

It's interesting, we used to have another name besides Antifa for people who fought fascism. They were called "Americans."


Go on youtube and enter portland clashes and you'll see them week after week. Masked antifa pepper spraying and beating peaceful protesters.

You're lying if you don't think violence on the left exists.

Classic leftist beliefs...SILENCE any viewpoint that doesn't mesh with your beliefs. We see it time and time again. Disagree with me? You're a nazi... its so tired and lame.

Its a disservice to people who actually were victims of fascism. Its amazing how only young white people think we're under this horrible tyranny.
 
cargolex
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:11 pm

Casobs wrote:

Go on youtube and enter portland clashes and you'll see them week after week. Masked antifa pepper spraying and beating peaceful protesters.


Once again, these things are not actually happening. You can go on youtube and find lots of terrible, unvetted, totally false information. Maybe Chemtrails are your thing? But that doesn't make it real anymore than believing in unicorns or leprechauns makes them real.

Casobs wrote:
You're lying if you don't think violence on the left exists.


Frankly, in terms of what you are saying, it doesn't.

Casobs wrote:
Classic leftist beliefs...SILENCE any viewpoint that doesn't mesh with your beliefs. We see it time and time again. Disagree with me? You're a nazi... its so tired and lame.

Its a disservice to people who actually were victims of fascism. Its amazing how only young white people think we're under this horrible tyranny.


Classic right-wing projection in action once again, all in the defense of fascism itself. Nobody says "let's pass laws against the alt right's violent actions." Instead we're supposed to talk about the nonexistent new black panthers or antifa or whatever left-wing bogeyman Right-wing automatons can be scared into believing in by crappy youtube videos and InfoWars and whatever other garbage media you get your information from.

Maybe it's Krampus who's responsible. Or the tooth fairy.
 
seb146
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:35 pm

Casobs wrote:
cargolex wrote:
Casobs wrote:
Why are you ignoring the weekly violent riots in Portland and other cities? Antifa showing up with bats and fighting protesters. They are targeting people with violence. Literally all of the violence in those interactions are initiated by violent leftists..


Perhaps because these things you're talking about simply aren't real and don't actually happen? There definitely aren't riots every week in Portland or anywhere else in the United States.

It's interesting, we used to have another name besides Antifa for people who fought fascism. They were called "Americans."


Go on youtube and enter portland clashes and you'll see them week after week. Masked antifa pepper spraying and beating peaceful protesters.


Those "masked antifa pepper spraying and beating" people are called Portland Police. I live in Oregon and I have Portland news feeds on my social media as well as my TV. Plus, I have friends in Portland.

Classic leftist beliefs...SILENCE any viewpoint that doesn't mesh with your beliefs. We see it time and time again. Disagree with me? You're a nazi... its so tired and lame.


You have mashed up so much classic right wing misleading talking points in this. Ignoring false claims because it is not worth our time to change your mind. To get you to understand that what you believe has been indoctrinated in your mind. Actual Nazis and KKK and racists actively support Republicans and tRump. Go look at the Charlottesville riots. The white supremacists were all wearing MAGA hats and supporting tRump. White supremacits and white nationalists have won primaries as Republicans.

Its a disservice to people who actually were victims of fascism. Its amazing how only young white people think we're under this horrible tyranny.


Like children being yelled at and having the cops called on them for selling lemonade while black? Like gays not being able to adopt children or buy a cake? Like health care being taken away because "you young people just want free stuff"? "Your opinion does not count because you think I am a Nazi"? Desire to lock up political opponents for no reason? Calling a certain class of people "animals" and "rapists" and "drug dealers"?

Read through this list

https://listverse.com/2009/03/07/16-sig ... a-tyranny/

and see how many apply to the United States right now. A majority of these 16 points do. If you don't see it, get away from Alex Jones, The Blaze, and Fox infotainment and read other sources and sites. The reality is somewhere in between.
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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VTKillarney
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:41 pm

You know the LGBTQ community is doing very well when they have to misrepresent a court ruling involving the purchase of a cake. Th court did not say that they couldn’t buy a cake. All the court said was that the proper legal procedure was not followed in regard to the complaint.

Oh, and also by flat out lying about adoption bans:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_ad ... ted_States
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:03 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
If anything, it’s evidence that the right doesn’t resort to violence.

LOL oh god I can't breathe. You're hysterical. :rotfl:

Rather than argue by ad hominem, why don’t you make a factual argument in defense of your position?

You can start by addressing the open question:

I don't have to address jack since I didn't say that.

Casobs wrote:
Why are you ignoring the weekly violent riots in Portland and other cities? Antifa showing up with bats and fighting protesters. They are targeting people with violence.

Where? In your head?

EA CO AS wrote:
Today's Antifa crowd uses weapons to fight in hopes of preventing speech they disagree with from taking place.

What weapons are you talking about? This free speech is usually right wingers calling black people apes and feminists fat and ugly, but of course whining about civility when someone calls Huckabeast a liar. She's also fantastically ugly. Must be a feminist. :rotfl:

EA CO AS wrote:
Seriously, you don't see that? At all?

No, because if you were to stop watching Fox, you'd notice that antifa isn't the boogeyman it's made out to be. Y'all are up to your nipples in guns and are shaking in your boots at a rag tag, uncoordinated, tiny group of people that occasionally smash a Starbucks window, and have been doing so for decades. They're no where near as significant as you think/want them to be, and the statistics support that, VTK's looney blathering about Stalin aside.

Casobs wrote:
Go on youtube and enter portland clashes and you'll see them week after week. Masked antifa pepper spraying and beating peaceful protesters.

Link? I can go on youtube and find plenty of flat earth videos. Doesn't mean it's real.

VTKillarney wrote:
You know the LGBTQ community is doing very well when

Would you like to trade rights
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:05 pm

MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
You know the LGBTQ community is doing very well when

Would you like to trade rights

What rights do straight people have that you don’t?
 
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casinterest
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:27 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
You know the LGBTQ community is doing very well when

Would you like to trade rights

What rights do straight people have that you don’t?


Straight people have the right not to worry that the ability to be married and all the associated financial, legal ,and personal gains that come from it won't get taken away by a bunch of cowardly right wing religious nutcases.
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VTKillarney
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:29 pm

casinterest wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
Would you like to trade rights

What rights do straight people have that you don’t?


Straight people have the right not to worry that the ability to be married and all the associated financial, legal ,and personal gains that come from it won't get taken away by a bunch of cowardly right wing religious nutcases.

So.... you have all the same rights. Gotcha.
 
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casinterest
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:36 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
What rights do straight people have that you don’t?


Straight people have the right not to worry that the ability to be married and all the associated financial, legal ,and personal gains that come from it won't get taken away by a bunch of cowardly right wing religious nutcases.

So.... you have all the same rights. Gotcha.


And the answer would be no. Maybe your English translator isn't working so well. You might want to talk to your handler.

And I am not gay, but I have family that are, and they have to worry about folks that don't see the unequal protections.
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VTKillarney
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:36 pm

casinterest wrote:

And I am not gay, but I have family that are, and they have to worry about folks that don't see the unequal protections.

And they STILL have all of the same rights.
 
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:43 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:

And I am not gay, but I have family that are, and they have to worry about folks that don't see the unequal protections.

And they STILL have all of the same rights.


States still have unequal housing discrimination laws
The bathroom law
States still allow employers to discriminate based on sexual orientation

So no not the same rights.
Apparently you are not posting from anywhere in the USA or you would know this.
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VTKillarney
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:01 pm

casinterest wrote:
States still have unequal housing discrimination laws

Discrimination against a lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender (LGBT) person is covered by the Fair Housing Act if it is based on non-conformity with gender stereotypes.

casinterest wrote:
States still allow employers to discriminate based on sexual orientation

And that is meaningless:
“the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) interprets Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to cover discrimination against LGBT employees, as "allegations of discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation necessarily state a claim of discrimination on the basis of sex".[2] This interpretation in essence bars employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation in accordance with the Civil Rights Act of 1964.”

You were correct on that bathroom bill. Thanks for pointing that out.
 
MaverickM11
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:51 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
VTKillarney wrote:
You know the LGBTQ community is doing very well when

Would you like to trade rights

What rights do straight people have that you don’t?

Bottom quarter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_righ ... Washington
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:40 am

MaverickM11 wrote:
What weapons are you talking about? This free speech is usually right wingers calling black people apes and feminists fat and ugly, but of course whining about civility when someone calls Huckabeast a liar. She's also fantastically ugly. Must be a feminist. :rotfl:


You must be joking, right?

Antifa protesters show up to oppose the free speech of others with baseball bats, clubs, steel pipes, and all sorts of other weapons, complete with masks for their faces in hopes of obscuring who they are.

Image

Some items confiscated by Portland Police from Antifa members going to "protest"...

Image
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Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
LMP737
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:00 am

EA CO AS wrote:
In WW2, fascism was fought with weapons because it was a life or death struggle against armed belligerent nations.

Today's Antifa crowd uses weapons to fight in hopes of preventing speech they disagree with from taking place.

Kind of a big difference, wouldn't you say?


I'm sorry, I'm missing the part where an Antifa member drove their car into a crowd of protestors.
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LittleSprocket
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:17 am

LMP737 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
In WW2, fascism was fought with weapons because it was a life or death struggle against armed belligerent nations.

Today's Antifa crowd uses weapons to fight in hopes of preventing speech they disagree with from taking place.

Kind of a big difference, wouldn't you say?


I'm sorry, I'm missing the part where an Antifa member drove their car into a crowd of protestors.


You're right, its FAR better to be bludgeoned to death by baseball bats, hammers and other blunt objects.

The irony here is that both cases are prime examples of why the right to own and carry a firearm is such a huge deal.
 
Airstud
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:22 am

LMP737 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
In WW2, fascism was fought with weapons because it was a life or death struggle against armed belligerent nations.

Today's Antifa crowd uses weapons to fight in hopes of preventing speech they disagree with from taking place.

Kind of a big difference, wouldn't you say?


I'm sorry, I'm missing the part where an Antifa member drove their car into a crowd of protestors.


Are you actually saying that James Alex Fields committing vehicular homicide makes Antifa's violence acceptable?

I don't see how that's a different line of reasoning than Trumpies dismissing Trump's numerous floutings of law and protocol simply by pointing to Hillary's emails.
Last edited by Airstud on Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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seb146
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:10 am

Airstud wrote:
LMP737 wrote:
EA CO AS wrote:
In WW2, fascism was fought with weapons because it was a life or death struggle against armed belligerent nations.

Today's Antifa crowd uses weapons to fight in hopes of preventing speech they disagree with from taking place.

Kind of a big difference, wouldn't you say?


I'm sorry, I'm missing the part where an Antifa member drove their car into a crowd of protestors.


Are you actually saying that James Alex Fields committing vehicular homicide makes Antifa's violence acceptable?

I don't see how that's a different line of reasoning than Trumpies dismissing Trump's numerous floutings of law and protocol simply by pointing to Hillary's emails.


I am reading a Newsweek article about a clash between anti fascist protesters and white nationalists who support a white nationalist Republican candidate and are organized by an out of state group. The article does not say which side started the riot but items were confiscated. Not simply from one side, as you righties want to believe.

http://www.newsweek.com/far-right-prote ... nd-1003232

You righties love to say how you want equality for all and do not support these racists candidates, so, why do you all vote for them over and over? Why not vote for moderates or those who are not white nationalists, KKK, Nazis, etc? Why not kick them out of your party instead of coddling them and sucking up to them and electing them?

BTW, what is the history of "antifa"? When was it founded? Who is the president?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
Airstud
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:17 am

seb146 wrote:
Airstud wrote:
LMP737 wrote:

I'm sorry, I'm missing the part where an Antifa member drove their car into a crowd of protestors.


Are you actually saying that James Alex Fields committing vehicular homicide makes Antifa's violence acceptable?

I don't see how that's a different line of reasoning than Trumpies dismissing Trump's numerous floutings of law and protocol simply by pointing to Hillary's emails.


I am reading a Newsweek article about a clash between anti fascist protesters and white nationalists who support a white nationalist Republican candidate and are organized by an out of state group. The article does not say which side started the riot but items were confiscated. Not simply from one side, as you righties want to believe.

http://www.newsweek.com/far-right-prote ... nd-1003232

You righties love to say how you want equality for all and do not support these racists candidates, so, why do you all vote for them over and over? Why not vote for moderates or those who are not white nationalists, KKK, Nazis, etc? Why not kick them out of your party instead of coddling them and sucking up to them and electing them?

BTW, what is the history of "antifa"? When was it founded? Who is the president?


"You righties love to say how you want equality for all and do not support these racists candidates, so, why do you all vote for them over and over? Why not vote for moderates or those who are not white nationalists, KKK, Nazis, etc? Why not kick them out of your party instead of coddling them and sucking up to them and electing them?"

Er... whom are you talking to?
Pancakes are delicious.
 
seb146
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Posts: 17315
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:20 am

Airstud wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Airstud wrote:

Are you actually saying that James Alex Fields committing vehicular homicide makes Antifa's violence acceptable?

I don't see how that's a different line of reasoning than Trumpies dismissing Trump's numerous floutings of law and protocol simply by pointing to Hillary's emails.


I am reading a Newsweek article about a clash between anti fascist protesters and white nationalists who support a white nationalist Republican candidate and are organized by an out of state group. The article does not say which side started the riot but items were confiscated. Not simply from one side, as you righties want to believe.

http://www.newsweek.com/far-right-prote ... nd-1003232

You righties love to say how you want equality for all and do not support these racists candidates, so, why do you all vote for them over and over? Why not vote for moderates or those who are not white nationalists, KKK, Nazis, etc? Why not kick them out of your party instead of coddling them and sucking up to them and electing them?

BTW, what is the history of "antifa"? When was it founded? Who is the president?


"You righties love to say how you want equality for all and do not support these racists candidates, so, why do you all vote for them over and over? Why not vote for moderates or those who are not white nationalists, KKK, Nazis, etc? Why not kick them out of your party instead of coddling them and sucking up to them and electing them?"

Er... whom are you talking to?


It is just frustrating to hear the same "we love minorities" song and dance from the same people and they vote for and defend those who are outright hateful. It is just frustrating and I want answers as to why people keep voting to take my rights away. I don't want to marry a woman. I love the brosband. We are not married, but want that option. These Republican white nationalists want to take that away. They hate Latinos and Blacks simply on skin color. Why do these people keep getting elected?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:24 am

Airstud wrote:
Are you actually saying that James Alex Fields committing vehicular homicide makes Antifa's violence acceptable?


And why did he "need" a 500+ HP Dodge Challenger? He could have had something like a Hyundai, but instead, he chose to use a high-powered assault-car that no one needs! That car shouldn't be in the hands of drivers anywhere! :duck:
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:29 am

seb146 wrote:
I want answers as to why people keep voting to take my rights away. I don't want to marry a woman. I love the brosband. We are not married, but want that option.


You may not believe this, but true conservatives don't give a rodent's posterior about what you want to do with your private life, and certainly don't want to see ANYONE'S rights abridged or taken away. I'd go as far as to say that "marriage" is something the government shouldn't even be involved in; let them issue "civil union licenses" for all going forward, and then those who want to do a religious-based "marriage ceremony" can do those in their preferred house of worship if they choose.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
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EA CO AS
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:46 am

seb146 wrote:
what is the history of "antifa"? When was it founded? Who is the president?


The same as Occupy Wall Street. No leadership, no organization, just a social-media-driven group of ne'er-do-wells who decided to throw public hissyfits, destroy property, and engage in violence in the name of whatever the grievance of the day happens to be.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Airstud
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:49 am

seb146 wrote:
Airstud wrote:
seb146 wrote:

I am reading a Newsweek article about a clash between anti fascist protesters and white nationalists who support a white nationalist Republican candidate and are organized by an out of state group. The article does not say which side started the riot but items were confiscated. Not simply from one side, as you righties want to believe.

http://www.newsweek.com/far-right-prote ... nd-1003232

You righties love to say how you want equality for all and do not support these racists candidates, so, why do you all vote for them over and over? Why not vote for moderates or those who are not white nationalists, KKK, Nazis, etc? Why not kick them out of your party instead of coddling them and sucking up to them and electing them?

BTW, what is the history of "antifa"? When was it founded? Who is the president?


"You righties love to say how you want equality for all and do not support these racists candidates, so, why do you all vote for them over and over? Why not vote for moderates or those who are not white nationalists, KKK, Nazis, etc? Why not kick them out of your party instead of coddling them and sucking up to them and electing them?"

Er... whom are you talking to?


It is just frustrating to hear the same "we love minorities" song and dance from the same people and they vote for and defend those who are outright hateful. It is just frustrating and I want answers as to why people keep voting to take my rights away. I don't want to marry a woman. I love the brosband. We are not married, but want that option. These Republican white nationalists want to take that away. They hate Latinos and Blacks simply on skin color. Why do these people keep getting elected?



"It is just frustrating to hear the same "we love minorities" song and dance from the same people and they vote for and defend those who are outright hateful."

Which. People??? You keep quoting me in your allusions to the racists and the hateful.


"It is just frustrating and I want answers as to why people keep voting to take my rights away."

No kidding you want answers. I want answers as to why anyone joins the Klan. I want answers as to why people believe Jews are conspiring to control the world. I want answers as to why people believe that the "white race" is somehow "threatened." For that matter I want an answer to the question, "What is Yvonne Strahovski's phone number." We're not going to get answers to those questions.

"I don't want to marry a woman."

Even the states that went so far as to amend their constitutions to ban gay marriage never passed laws requiring you guys to go str8. Let alone that you marry that way.

"I love the brosband. We are not married, but want that option. These Republican white nationalists want to take that away. They hate Latinos and Blacks simply on skin color. Why do these people keep getting elected?"

Which overt racists and gay-haters have been elected? Even Oklahoma chose not to elect Scott Esk.
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tommy1808
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:24 pm

cargolex wrote:
Some Americans were very sympathetic to the Nazis, to Italian fascists, and even to Franco, and thought fascism was a good idea, and could only be cajoled into fighting fascism after we were attacked by another nation with considerable loss of life.


:checkmark:
Just ask IBM, ITT, GM, Ford and probably a whole lot of others companies why they did business with the Nazi's for so long...

The war was really good business, ITT even later sued the US government successfully for compensation as the US Air force had bombed their German aircraft factory that churned out warplanes ......
Heck, Ford paid for the Beer Hall Putsch.....

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casinterest
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:39 pm

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
States still have unequal housing discrimination laws

Discrimination against a lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender (LGBT) person is covered by the Fair Housing Act if it is based on non-conformity with gender stereotypes.

Actually , Sexual Orientation is not covered under the FHA.

A federal judge ruled in 2017 that sexual orientation is protected, but for some reason the GOP run Congress has yet to pass a bill to make it official.

Go figure.

VTKillarney wrote:
casinterest wrote:
States still allow employers to discriminate based on sexual orientation


And that is meaningless:
“the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) interprets Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to cover discrimination against LGBT employees, as "allegations of discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation necessarily state a claim of discrimination on the basis of sex".[2] This interpretation in essence bars employment discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation in accordance with the Civil Rights Act of 1964.”

Only for private employers. Not for State Governments.


VTKillarney wrote:
You were correct on that bathroom bill. Thanks for pointing that out.
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MaverickM11
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:10 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
MaverickM11 wrote:
What weapons are you talking about? This free speech is usually right wingers calling black people apes and feminists fat and ugly, but of course whining about civility when someone calls Huckabeast a liar. She's also fantastically ugly. Must be a feminist. :rotfl:


You must be joking, right?

Antifa protesters show up to oppose the free speech of others with baseball bats, clubs, steel pipes, and all sorts of other weapons, complete with masks for their faces in hopes of obscuring who they are.

Let me get this straight: the laughably named Patriot Prayer shows up to events, hoovering up nazi/white supremacist hangers on everywhere they go that they keep trying to (unsuccessfully) swat away, with paramilitary 3% and other groups armed to the teeth "protecting" them, looking for a fight, and surprise! they find one. And it's the other rabble rousers' fault? In Charlottesville, even the looney tunes paramilitary groups that showed up to "protect" god knows what admitted the 'unite the right' people showed up for a fight. That's an awful lot of fingers pointing back at you when you single out Antifa. I think the moral here is Antifa needs guns so they can be a militia like the armada of militias at all of these events.

Image

EA CO AS wrote:
You may not believe this, but true conservatives don't give a rodent's posterior about what you want to do with your private life, and certainly don't want to see ANYONE'S rights abridged or taken away.

That's nice. But "true conservatives" are as dead as the dodo. It would be a dream to have them back in place of this white nationalist rage we call conservatives now.
Last edited by MaverickM11 on Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
seb146
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:26 pm

EA CO AS wrote:
seb146 wrote:
what is the history of "antifa"? When was it founded? Who is the president?


The same as Occupy Wall Street. No leadership, no organization, just a social-media-driven group of ne'er-do-wells who decided to throw public hissyfits, destroy property, and engage in violence in the name of whatever the grievance of the day happens to be.


I find it interesting that, when groups like Occupy or anti-fascists march, that triggers a contingent on the right screaming about how awful they are. Almost like that group does not want Occupy or anti-fascists to show opposition.

How many people have Occupy and the anti-fascists killed under the guise of peaceably assembling? Why does the right honestly believe that every single person who protests with or supports these two groups are breaking things and engaging in violence? It reminds me of the debates on how we need to support Israel and hate Palestine. Both sides are violent but one side has more power and money.
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seb146
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Re: Fewer Protections For LGBTQ From The Government

Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:31 pm

Seven states do not allow gays to adopt children. Now, the House has tacked on a rider to a spending bill that would allow agencies to discriminate against same gender families for adoption and fostering children.

https://www.advocate.com/politics/2018/ ... bt-parents
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