tommy1808 wrote:

Russia manufacturers make no marketable high-tech items.

They make anti-virus programs. They even spy on you as a free bonus.

tommy1808 wrote:

i never lie, just bad sources in this case. Ferpe puts the PD-14 at a 2.5% disadvantage. Did any commercial operator order it yet?

Here is the official information presented at the international forum of engine building, which was held in April in Moscow:


There is, for example, indicated that the PD-14 on top, is 60...80 degrees Celsius lower temperature in front of the turbine, indicating the availability of modernization potential and ways to improve engine efficiency.

I have no doubt that a Russian can cut down trees about as efficient as a EU or US worker, but that doesn´t change that Russia manufacturers make no marketable high-tech items. The only people that buy Russian tech are those that can´t buy western tech or have political reasons to source in opposing blocks.

That's complete bullshit. Russian companies produce a huge amount of high-tech products. From our own microprocessors to nuclear reactors and missiles. You either know nothing about Russia or you are deliberately lying.

Why did i chose cutting down trees as an example? Because raw sawn wood is the most high tech manufactured good Russia makes that is somewhat competitive on the world market. Export numbers don´t lie. But apparently even cutting treas in raw cuts has a quality and efficiently level so low that a good chunk of customers doesn´t even trust Russian companies with that.

Oil refining products also require quite high technologies, and the level of processing of oil exported from Russia reaches 98%. This means that only 2% of exports are from crude oil. You can also look at the situation with the export of metal from Russia - metallurgy to the EU and the US is so "effective" that is forced to introduce huge protective duties for steel products from Russia.

Your microprocessors have to be made in foreign countries, with a process that is three generations old, unless you make them in Russia. With equipment so old that AMD was about to through it away

In this case, we can say that in General the whole world lags behind Asia, where the vast majority of electronics in the world are produced. However, Russia now has the necessary microprocessors, which can meet the needs of the economy. Also in Russia traditionally the best programmers and mathematicians in the world. In addition, I have not heard from you accusations of the backwardness of most European countries, such as Poland, Czech Republic, Denmark, Sweden, Spain, Montenegro, England, which do not produce their own microprocessors.

Russia is so far back ins most areas of technology that not even the Chinese want to buy your "Technology" anymore. Russia can not even make high grade motor oil, as the biggest Oil exporter, and have to import those at a tune of 1 billion USD/year.

China still continues to buy and copy Russian technologies. Examples-Chinese aircraft carriers are nothing more than the development of Soviet aircraft carriers project 1143. Chinese combat aircraft are copies of Russian or based on Russian technology. For example, now China buys 11 su-35 aircraft from Russia, without even hiding that it intends to copy technology, especially from engines that China is not able to develop on its own. China's space program is based on Russian technology, which China received in the nineties.

The fact that Russia does not produce something on its territory means only one thing-it is cheaper for us to buy it from someone than to reproduce the full production cycle on its territory. But this does not mean that Russia cannot do this. If necessary, we can recreate any existing technology - we have all the necessary resources and industrial potential. And this is despite the fact that over the past 120 years, Russia has experienced two world wars, two disintegration of the state, the bloodiest civil war in the history of mankind, suffered the most severe losses in history, and at the same time made a huge technological breakthrough, taking the leading position in the world.A very large part of the technologies that are now used by the West, was developed in Russia. It is unlikely that you think about it.
For example, when you need to drill a hole in the wall with a drill at home, you hardly know that the material of the tip of your drill was invented in Russia in 1929. When you watch the launch Of the SpaceX rocket, you hardly remember that the lattice rudders were first used in Russia in the fifties, that such lattice rudders were on the Soviet rocket N-1 and the system of emergency rescue of the "Souz" launch vehicles.
The stealth technology was developed by a Russian scientist named Petr Ufimtsev (among other things, the B2 Spirit Northrop aircraft was developed with the direct participation of Ufimtsev).
It is possible to list for a long time all examples of high-tech developments developed in Russia for a long time. So I repeat once again: when you say that there are no high-tech products in Russia, you either do not know anything about Russia, or you are lying intentionally.

L410Turbolet wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

Russia manufacturers make no marketable high-tech items.

They make anti-virus programs. They even spy on you as a free bonus.

Contact the Pentagon and the NSA with the same claim. After Snowden, it's funny to see someone else seriously accusing Russia of spying with software.

tommy1808 wrote:

The UN is a joke because permanent council member's have veto rights. If the general assembly decided things, we'd be living in a better world, and even that ain't perfect.

The UN isn't a joke, it is flawed because of the veto rights and it is the best we have. In the ninety nighties it was better, but nowadays Russia is again working against world peace and America is again gone into ludicrous mode on Israel.

Scorpius wrote:

L410Turbolet wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

Russia manufacturers make no marketable high-tech items.

They make anti-virus programs. They even spy on you as a free bonus.

Contact the Pentagon and the NSA with the same claim. After Snowden, it's funny to see someone else seriously accusing Russia of spying with software.

It is used for spying, that is a fact. You are doing yet again a "whataboutism", yes America did a bad thing, so everything else can do the same?

L410Turbolet wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

Russia manufacturers make no marketable high-tech items.

They make anti-virus programs. They even spy on you as a free bonus.

Kaspersky himself is on record that no one needs anti virus software, and if anything on a local computer makes sense, it is Microsoft defender/essentials.
So that business is just a scam like SoftRAM ...

Best regards
Thomas

Scorpius wrote:

That's complete bullshit. Russian companies produce a huge amount of high-tech products. From our own microprocessors to nuclear reactors and missiles. You either know nothing about Russia or you are deliberately lying.

Export numbers don't lie. Please point out where Russia is currently having its 7, 10, 14 or 20nm Chip manufacturing.

You however are lying, because i stated in the very same post that Russia does develop processors and has them made in Taiwan or makes them in Russia on discarded AMD equipment, that is so old it didn't even have resale value outside of countries so many decades behind.

Best regards
Thomas

Scorpius wrote:

Oil refining products also require quite high technologies, and the level of processing of oil exported from Russia reaches 98%. This means that only 2% of exports are from crude oil. You can also look at the situation with the export of metal from Russia - metallurgy to the EU and the US is so "effective" that is forced to introduce huge protective duties for steel products from Russia.

So Scorpius, could you please provide a source for this?

ussia is the 15th largest export economy in the world. In 2016, Russia exported $719B and imported $458B, resulting in a positive trade balance of $261B. In 2016 the GDP of Russia was $1.28T and its GDP per capita was $23.2k.

The top exports of Russia are Crude Petroleum ($85.8B), Refined Petroleum ($56.1B), Unspecified ($47.5B), Petroleum Gas ($16.8B) and Coal Briquettes ($11.8B), using the 1992 revision of the HS (Harmonized System) classification. Its top imports are Packaged Medicaments ($8.66B), Cars ($8.34B), Unspecified ($7.27B), Vehicle Parts ($6.8B) and Other Heating Machinery ($6.43B).

Source: https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/rus/

So 141,9bn US$ petroleum was exported in 2016, crude: 60,5%, refined: 39,5%.

How can we believe anything you say, if we find a reputable source ( MIT in this case ) which contradicts your numbers by a large margin? And you don't provide any source.

Dutchy wrote:

Scorpius wrote:

Oil refining products also require quite high technologies, and the level of processing of oil exported from Russia reaches 98%. This means that only 2% of exports are from crude oil. You can also look at the situation with the export of metal from Russia - metallurgy to the EU and the US is so "effective" that is forced to introduce huge protective duties for steel products from Russia.

So Scorpius, could you please provide a source for this?

ussia is the 15th largest export economy in the world. In 2016, Russia exported $719B and imported $458B, resulting in a positive trade balance of $261B. In 2016 the GDP of Russia was $1.28T and its GDP per capita was $23.2k.

The top exports of Russia are Crude Petroleum ($85.8B), Refined Petroleum ($56.1B), Unspecified ($47.5B), Petroleum Gas ($16.8B) and Coal Briquettes ($11.8B), using the 1992 revision of the HS (Harmonized System) classification. Its top imports are Packaged Medicaments ($8.66B), Cars ($8.34B), Unspecified ($7.27B), Vehicle Parts ($6.8B) and Other Heating Machinery ($6.43B).

Source: https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/rus/

So 141,9bn US$ petroleum was exported in 2016, crude: 60,5%, refined: 39,5%.

How can we believe anything you say, if we find a reputable source ( MIT in this case ) which contradicts your numbers by a large margin? And you don't provide any source.

I have considered in more detail the sources I have read and I have to admit that my memory has failed me. The oil refining index, unfortunately, does not reach the figure of 98% mentioned by me.
So, to prevent possible insinuations, I will provide information from official sources, such as the Ministry of energy of the Russian Federation and the Customs service.
1. The depth of oil and oil condensate processing in Russia is 81.3% for 2017: https://minenergo.gov.ru/node/1212
2. In 2017, the volume of primary processing of oil raw materials at Russian refineries amounted to 279.9 million tons.
3. The total volume of oil and oil condensate production in Russia for 2017 is 546.8 million tons.
Thus, at present Russia almost all crude oil is exported, leaving oil products for domestic consumption. At the same time, the presence or absence of refined products in the structure of oil exports, as well as their share in the total volume, are not indicators that even remotely characterize the level of technological development of the country.
For Russia, for example, the relatively low average oil refining depth is primarily due to the need to bear significant costs for infrastructure renewal, as most refineries were built more than 40-50 years ago and their equipment is very outdated. To upgrade the same requires a lot of money, and such work in any case is delayed for decades. However, the process of updating the industry is in full swing, as evidenced by the ever-increasing depth of processing of oil produced in the country.

Now I think it is necessary to give an explanation of where the figure of 98% originally came from.
The initial material was the news about the completion of the Tuapse refinery modernization. Thus, the plant, which had a processing capacity of 4.5 million tons per year (data for 2010), expanded production to 12 million tons per year. At the same time, the depth of oil refining for this plant after modernization is 98.5% against 52.9% in 2010. On the modernization of the Tuapse refinery on the site of the company "Rosneft": https://tnpz.rosneft.ru/about/Glance/OperationalStructure/Pererabotka/tnpz/

Now, when I gave my explanation, I want to remind you about the essence of the question: it was stated that Russia allegedly does not produce and does not export high-tech. I told you that was bullshit. Russia has enough high-tech industries and high-tech products. View information about the structure of exports and imports of Russia is best on the official website of the Customs service of the Russian Federation, there are such statistics: http://www.customs.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=26274:2016

Thus, the statement that Russia does not produce high-tech products is false.

Having bitten the bullet and deciding to read all of this thread (glutten for punishment) this thread along with most on this site as a whole, degenerates into a basic A vs B arguement. "A" represented by European posters and a few from outside of Europe vs "B" represented by mostly Americans and the late inclusion of our Russian troll, to add a little bit Russian propoganda to the arguement.

While the U.S.A. is far from an angel now, or has been in the past, in reality if you take an objective look at it, it is no worse than what the former great colonial powers of say France, Spain and Britain were in the past, especially Britain in the Middle East, or Russia (especially as the Soviet Union). How many wars have these countries fought in foreign countries, how many countries were ruled from London, Paris and Moscow, how much influence did they exert not just in individual countries, but whole continents ?

Who drew up the borders to make the Middle Eastern nations as we know them today ? You would think that Israel came into being just by the actions of the U.S.A. The U.S. is prepared to defend and help arm Israel, simply because just about every Arab nation has sworn to destroy Israel, it really is time to get over this and move on. Yes, such a move would require concessions from Israel, but while they are continually threatened, it makes it very hard to condemn Israel for a lot of its actions. Yes, absolutely some are plain wrong, but it is also wrong to basically brain wash kids into believing ridiculous things from bygone eras and then sending those kids basically into battle against heavily armed troops. Would you allow your kids to throw stones, use slingshots, throw fire bombs at heavily armed troops, knowing full well that those same troops are fearing for their own lives if there is suddenly a rocket attack, or there are snipers present ?

Are there really still people who don't think that Iran has supported terrorists ? Iran has sent some of its people (troops, guardsmen ?) to Syria, basically to prop up an immoral dictator who they support. They worked their way through Iraq on the noble premise that they were fighting ISIS, which along with Iraqi forces and air strikes (ironically often by U.S aircraft) they have for the most part been largely successful in the demise of ISIS in Iraq. The next step was to back their friend in Damascus, who could now fight ISIS and all the anti regime forces from multiple sides and add Russia to bring in the big guns (bombs anyway) and Russian guns for hire and the tide turns in Syria. Of course we won't mention that a lot of this bombing etc, wasn't exactly precision and countless civilians and "friendlies" have died in the process, but then if you aren't for al-Assad, you were a terrorist. What do the Iranians do when they are so close to Israel, such a tempatation, well lets fire some rockets and see if we can't get kill some more civilains, you never know, we may actually hit something worthwhile. Then cry foul when Israel hits back, beyond belief a lot of it.

So basically, we have a regime, who is developing a nuclear capability, which may or may not be for peaceful purposes, who now have armed forces on the border of their sworn enemy. Add the terrorist organisations in amongst the Palestinian people, a less than friendly government in Lebanon, both of which have strong links to Iran and people question why Israel has to be so offensively defensive and why the U.S is so intent on protecting it.

While it is dissapointing the average person in Iran looks likley to still have to fly on outdated aircraft, they really do only have their government to blame for it. As for the U.S. I wish that the government there would spend more time on making their own country equal for all. Surely there cannot be a democratic country in the world where the difference between the wealthy and poor is so great and the gap only continues to widen. The same is happening here in Australia, governments pander to big business at the expense of the "average" person, the gap continues to widen and unless something is done to address it, we will have a whole society who can barely get by, or can only do so by welfare payments and those are continually made harder and harder to get.

So rant over and Iran has about as much chance as I do of going to the moon in succeeding to sue Boeing.