fsnuffer
Posts: 197
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:38 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:17 pm

I am sure there are exit clauses/penalties on both sides. As long as Boeing makes Iran whole and there are no damages then there should be no liability to be determined by a court. This appears to be for media consumption.
 
Cerecl
Posts: 519
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 10:22 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:27 pm

blueflyer wrote:
I'm not suggesting they make peace or exchange ambassadors or anything that radical. No longer chanting, figuratively and not, death to Israel every five minutes, and not funding terrorist groups trying to blow up the place would make a significant difference already, and take the winds out of the most hardcore members of the current administration.
Neither side is blameless, but one pushes the rhetoric further than the other. That one needs to make the first step. If they want their Boeing orders...

Look, in principle I agree both countries need to tone down their rhetoric, I found it hard though to compare and judge which side pushes harder. When the PM of a country holds a press conference to accuse the other side of lying and lobbies for military action, I don't find it somehow less hostile than chanting for death to the opponent.
I happened to have a Palestinian friend who is otherwise kind, loves life and so on. He also supports Hamas and what they do. To him, it is not a terrorist organisation. When the animosity runs that deep, the distinction of what constitutes terrorist activity becomes blurred pretty quickly. Wouldn't you classify shooting on clearly marked medical personnel as a crime as well? Is militarily separating off an area and subject the people within, who has rudimentary weapons by comparison, to embargo while continuing to colonise their area any better than shooting rockets?
And let's be honest, the current occupier of WH cares naught about facts and tradition, much less about doing what's right. For heaven's sake he cannot even be trusted not to change his policy 3 times in as many days. If somehow Iran stops publically calling for the destruction of Israel, I predict absolutely no change in the attitudes of hawkish members of either US or Israeli government.
Fokker-100 SAAB 340 Q400 E190 717 737 738 763ER 787-8 772 77E 773 77W 747-400 747-400ER A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A343 A346 A359 A380
 
ckfred
Posts: 5095
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:35 pm

Clearly, there was a risk in signing agreements with Boeing. The accord between the Iran and the western allies allowed for a U.S. president to pull the U.S. out of the deal. This agreement was signed, before either party had nominated a presidential candidate in 2016. So, the chances that the Republican candidate would pull the U.S. out were unknown at the time Boeing and Iran signed the contract. So, both sides took a calculated risk with the order.

Considering that after the accord was sign, and Congress decided not to block it, the Supreme Leader of Iran made a scathing speech with regard to the U.S. Considering that the Iranian foreign minister just concluded an accord with the U.S., bashing the U.S. with the usual "evil" rhetoric is not the brightest move.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 15970
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:38 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Not a fan of Trump, but Boeing shouldn't have done deals with an evil regime like Iran.


Hilarious - so you don't want Boeing to do business even though the US Government said it was OK?

SCQ83 wrote:
And I think the US government should sanction Airbus and all those EU companies supporting the Iranian regime, like they made recently with ZTE:


Sanction other countries and businesses for sticking to an international agreement that the US was a party too? Serious overreach.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
superjeff
Posts: 1101
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:47 pm

cougar15 wrote:
Bigstud69 wrote:
The only solution with Iran is regime change. Anything else is unacceptable.


Wonder how long before this thread wanders to non av, but I don´t see it all that clean cut at all. Only the US (with backing from a single other nations) revoked the treaty, whilst the EU and many others are doing their utmost to hold onto the progress that they obviously very strongly see . So we have supposed ´non compliance´ on Iran´s part on the US and one of it´s allies view.I don't think it´s always as simple and black and white as certain posters make it. Anyway, a big loss, both for Boeing and IR!



I agree this needs to be moved to another non av newsgroup; but note that the Iran situation was NOT handled as a treaty. in the United States a treaty has to be ratified by the Senate. Obama new he couldn't get it through, so he bypassed that major requirement. That simple. And the fact that Israel agrees with most Americans that the Iran deal was a disaster has nothing to do with this discussion.
 
User avatar
Jayafe
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:12 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:48 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
Not a fan of Trump, but Boeing shouldn't have done deals with an evil regime like Iran.

And I think the US government should sanction Airbus and all those EU companies supporting the Iranian regime, like they made recently with ZTE:


You mean sanctioning the European Investment Bank? :hyper:

https://www.ft.com/content/1740471c-5a9 ... 677d2e1ce8

I think then that everybody in the planet should sanction (apart from ignoe) the US because of threatening peace and betraying peace agreements, including US companies that support Trump evil regime. (your words, not mine)
 
algeorge2015
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 10:12 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:10 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
It's the same "rationale" that's made Cuba 'evil' for the last 50-odd years.


Communism is, by its very nature, evil. History proves that. The kulaks. The gulags. The purges. The reeducation camps. One could go one.


I know its late into this conversation/thread ... but can you prove your comment about communism by comparing the political status/situation in the state of Kerala - India ? Please
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2181
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:13 pm

scbriml wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Not a fan of Trump, but Boeing shouldn't have done deals with an evil regime like Iran.


Hilarious - so you don't want Boeing to do business even though the US Government said it was OK?

SCQ83 wrote:
And I think the US government should sanction Airbus and all those EU companies supporting the Iranian regime, like they made recently with ZTE:


Sanction other countries and businesses for sticking to an international agreement that the US was a party too? Serious overreach.


The United States was not party to that agreement.
The Senate never ratified it.
It was not a treaty.
The Senate Republicans sent letters to Iran telling them point blank that they would withdraw from the agreement once they had control of the White House.
President Trump ran on withdrawing from the agreement from day one.

Ordering billions of dollars worth of assets on that basis was a dumb decision by any measure.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 4415
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:20 pm

Jayafe wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
Not a fan of Trump, but Boeing shouldn't have done deals with an evil regime like Iran.

And I think the US government should sanction Airbus and all those EU companies supporting the Iranian regime, like they made recently with ZTE:


You mean sanctioning the European Investment Bank? :hyper:


I don't know what the links between the EIB and the US are.

But the US is the largest economy and market in the world. If European companies choose to have business in the US AND Iran, they should choose between any of the two. And if they want to have business within the US, they should being sanctioned for having dealt with Iran in the first place. Since Airbus sells a few planes to some American companies and they use American parts in their planes, it is clear what they have to choose.
 
mham001
Posts: 5082
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:20 pm

aviationaware wrote:
I am absolutely disgusted to see several people here seriously blame America for everything while defending the animal regime of Iran.


You'll notice most of it comes from geographical regions that started the entire mess in the first place. But they don't want to acknowledge that.
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:24 pm

Not a long time ago Iran sued Israel. Iran and Israel had agreed to use the Eilat-Ashkelon pipeline to transfer Iranian oil to the Mediterrenean Sea, bypassing the Suez channel.

Iran won the case.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timdaiss/2 ... 99e8062a6e

IMHO Iran is absolutely right to sue Boeing. Pacta sunt servanda. You can't nilly-willy step out of a deal just because circumstances are changing. If Boeing didn't carry out a risk analysis before signing the deal, it's their problem.

David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
User avatar
seahawk
Posts: 7372
Joined: Fri May 27, 2005 1:29 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:33 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
It's the same "rationale" that's made Cuba 'evil' for the last 50-odd years.


Communism is, by its very nature, evil. History proves that. The kulaks. The gulags. The purges. The reeducation camps. One could go one.


But North Korea?
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:37 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
But the US is the largest economy and market in the world. If European companies choose to have business in the US AND Iran, they should choose between any of the two. And if they want to have business within the US, they should being sanctioned for having dealt with Iran in the first place.


Imagine the howls coming from Washington DC if it were the other way around. Today, all banks have to abide by US rules because you can't do banking business in the US without an US banking license.


Can the Trump Administration Legally Withdraw from the Deal under International Law?

As an international treaty, the Iran Deal is governed by the paramount principle of international law pacta sunt servanda—the notion that that treaties must be kept. As such, without cause or justification, the United States would be in breach of international law if it simply walks away from the Agreement. However, as laid out in the United National Security Council Resolution blessing the deal, the Agreement provides the parties with a possibility to withdraw from the agreement through a “snapback” mechanism. This allows any of the six parties to the Agreement to flag significant non-compliance and, if concerns remain unresolved, snap back all sanctions previously leveled against Iran. Nowhere in the Agreement is “significant non-compliance” defined, leaving the definition and scope up to each individual member.

http://www.yjil.yale.edu/is-the-trump-a ... iran-deal/

The UN Security Council would have to sanction the US, but there's the veto power...

David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2181
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:45 pm

The UN is a joke at this point, as was clearly visible in the Security Council chamber days ago when a ludicrous proposal made by Kuwait got 10 votes while the reasonable US proposal got none but its own.

If the Iranian's are going to rely on the UN to get their will, good luck. They will have no legitimacy.

Meanwhile, I am pretty sure that there is a clause in the Boeing contracts stating that they have the right to cancel in case delivery would violate sanctions. If they don't contain such a clause, Boeing needs to fire their general counsel.

Iran has zero grounds to sue on.
 
SCQ83
Posts: 4415
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:32 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:47 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
Imagine the howls coming from Washington DC if it were the other way around. Today, all banks have to abide by US rules because you can't do banking business in the US without an US banking license.


I never understood what the issue is with this either. Companies are free to choose not to do business in the US. They just can't have it both ways; doing business with the US and with the Ayatolah regime.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 9000
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:08 pm

scutfarcus wrote:
How is this boeing's fault? Sue Donald Trump.


Iran has a contractual agreement with Boeing, so the correct order is Iran sues Boeing, Boeing sues US government.

flyingturtle wrote:
IMHO Iran is absolutely right to sue Boeing. Pacta sunt servanda. You can't nilly-willy step out of a deal just because circumstances are changing. If Boeing didn't carry out a risk analysis before signing the deal, it's their problem.


Yup, basis of all international agreements and treaties is that they have to be executed in good faith, since there are no effective enforcement mechanisms.
Trump will probably have major issues getting anything legally binding signed by anyone, unless that is made enforceable outside the US and with no US veto right. Several courts of arbitration can manage that.

Boeing legal problems to deliver concern Iran only to the extent that the purchasing contract cares about it.

The fun part, if Iran secures a ruling in their favour, and Boeing doesn't pay up, which they legally can't do, that would mean Boeing defaults on its debt. That kills Boeing credit rating automatically and no bank under the Basel agreement can give Boeing any loans. Think Argentina.

I think Iran has layed this out quite clever.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
2122M
Posts: 721
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:08 pm

aviationaware wrote:
The UN is a joke at this point, as was clearly visible in the Security Council chamber days ago when a ludicrous proposal made by Kuwait got 10 votes while the reasonable US proposal got none but its own.


You are upset because the UN, an international organization, failed to pick sides in the Israel/Palestine conflict?
 
tommy1808
Posts: 9000
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:28 pm

2122M wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
The UN is a joke at this point, as was clearly visible in the Security Council chamber days ago when a ludicrous proposal made by Kuwait got 10 votes while the reasonable US proposal got none but its own.


You are upset because the UN, an international organization, failed to pick sides in the Israel/Palestine conflict?


Nah, he is angry because in his mind the UN did pick sides by requiring withdrawal into 1967 borders and not giving Jerusalem to Israel, but mandated it to be an autonomous, international open city.

The UN is a joke because permanent council member's have veto rights. If the general assembly decided things, we'd be living in a better world, and even that ain't perfect.

flyingturtle wrote:

The UN Security Council would have to sanction the US, but there's the veto power...

David


Well, unilateral sanctions just had a revival.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
User avatar
Jayafe
Posts: 1216
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:12 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:24 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
But the US is the largest economy and market in the world. If European companies choose to have business in the US AND Iran, they should choose between any of the two. And if they want to have business within the US, they should being sanctioned for having dealt with Iran in the first place. Since Airbus sells a few planes to some American companies and they use American parts in their planes, it is clear what they have to choose.


If you read the link you can see that the EU came up with instruments to prevent European companies being affected by this and allow continuity of business. I think they have already chosen ;)

2122M wrote:
You are upset because the UN, an international organization, failed to pick sides in the Israel/Palestine conflict?


If someone is upset is because due to veto powers the UN failed to officially recognize genocide.
 
WIederling
Posts: 6712
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:15 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:35 pm

Bigstud69 wrote:
The only solution with Iran is regime change. Anything else is unacceptable.


In the US ? most certainly yes!
Murphy is an optimist
 
Jetty
Posts: 566
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 12:27 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:50 pm

aviationaware wrote:
juliuswong wrote:
Iran? Pumping billions into terrorism?? What a joke! Some members here really need history and politics crash courses...pronto!!


So what are you saying? Are Hamas, ISIS, Hezbollah, PIJ, Al Quaeda and Taliban not terrorist organizations?

I am absolutely disgusted to see several people here seriously blame America for everything while defending the animal regime of Iran.

:roll: Utter ignorance to name ISIS as supported by Iran. If ISIS found out someone is Shia or supporting Iran they'd shoot them insistently (or worse).

SCQ83 wrote:
The United States was not party to that agreement.
The Senate never ratified it.

A senate doesn't represent a country abroad, the head of state does, whether you like him or not.
 
opticalilyushin
Posts: 559
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:35 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:38 pm

I never understood the hatred the US government has towards Iran, OK the revolution and storming the embassy in the 70s was terrible, but given what the US and others did to harm Iran's democracy a couple of decades earlier, did they expect the people to just roll over and submit?

Countries are only labelled as terrorist hotspots when it suits other countries. Iran has a strained relationship with the US, and yet acts of genocide or the creation of the world's most dangerous terrorist organisations in allied countries get quietly brushed under the carpet..and why? Money and oil!
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:55 pm

Jetty wrote:
SCQ83 wrote:
The United States was not party to that agreement.
The Senate never ratified it.


A senate doesn't represent a country abroad, the head of state does, whether you like him or not.


To be legally binding in the US, a treaty must be ratified by the Senate.

But the US government signed the treaty, and made it legally binding between... nations.

The only way out for the US would be to prove that Iran violated the JCPOA. But the current resident of the White House has already said he trusts Kim Jong-un on his intention to denuclearize. Why can't he trust the Iranian government? Huh? *mind boggles*

If Boeing cannot deliver the birds, then Iran Air just buys Airbus planes and sends the bill to a certain address in Near West Side, Chicago. To avoid that hassle, Boeing can also pay Airbus to produce some free birds for Iran Air.


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:01 pm

SCQ83 wrote:
flyingturtle wrote:
Imagine the howls coming from Washington DC if it were the other way around. Today, all banks have to abide by US rules because you can't do banking business in the US without an US banking license.


I never understood what the issue is with this either. Companies are free to choose not to do business in the US. They just can't have it both ways; doing business with the US and with the Ayatolah regime.


So, if I owned a bank that processes payments from/to Iranian nationals, then why am I seen as supporting an "Ayatollah regime"? When I deal with US citizens and companies, then I'm not endorsing Mr. Trump's policies. I'm just doing business.

But of course, thanks to that US withdrawal from the JCPOA Russian and Chinese banks are free to finance Iran's development. Pistol, bullet, your own foot.


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 3115
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:45 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
Good, if Boeing wants to act like a political organization, they should be treated like one. Hopefully when all is said and done Iran comes out owning Boeing.

Yeah.....i am sure that'll happen :sarcastic:
 
User avatar
Super80Fan
Posts: 1104
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:00 am

ER757 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Good, if Boeing wants to act like a political organization, they should be treated like one. Hopefully when all is said and done Iran comes out owning Boeing.

Yeah.....i am sure that'll happen :sarcastic:


I'm hoping. Boeing needs to get what's coming to them soon.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
Deecheck
Posts: 14
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:42 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:24 am

This is what happens when a president (Obama) enacts a deal without including Congress and the consent of the American people.

They were told at the time this was going to happen but they did it anyway.
 
juliuswong
Posts: 966
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:22 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:43 am

Deecheck wrote:
This is what happens when a president (Obama) enacts a deal without including Congress and the consent of the American people.

They were told at the time this was going to happen but they did it anyway.

The new Republican Senate and Congress would have nixed the deal any way by enacting new sanction/ law/ statute/ or whatever even Obama sought both consent.
- Life is a journey, travel it well -
 
User avatar
tjcab
Posts: 328
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2004 3:14 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:57 am

SCQ83 wrote:
Not a fan of Trump, but Boeing shouldn't have done deals with an evil regime like Iran.

And I think the US government should sanction Airbus and all those EU companies supporting the Iranian regime, like they made recently with ZTE:

https://www.techradar.com/news/zte-reac ... government


A simplistic statement to obviously derived from very little geopolitical knowledge.

Nobody [governments] in this world cares about anyone other than their own interests. Who is arming the world? Where do these arms and up? Compare the top arms sellers to the permanent members on the security council. Once can go on.

Let's not kid ourselves here (unless ignorance is in play), there are no sanctions against the USA because of its market that needs to be tapped by greedy companies globally. The USA (leadership) is very very far from being an angel. Probably has done more harm globally than any other nation. From massacres to poisonings to dirty and covert wars etc, from Panama to the DRC (former Zair). I could fill a page listing them all, however, this is not the venue. Lack of education combined with bias and believing propaganda is scary. Its friends like Saudi Arabia and Israel, apparently can do no harm. Try to educate yourself on theses subjects. Start with the history of US/Iran relations. Lots of proxy wars out there.

I Truly feel sorry for the majority of Americans who are friendly and welcoming people. Should the pay the price for their governments doings? Absolutely not. Boeing, on the other had...larger corporations in the USA are very aligned to the government. Well, with their cut of the recent arms deal, they can sit this one out and play nice, for now.

Humanity, we have learned nothing from history. Disappointing.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 9000
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:04 am

flyingturtle wrote:

The only way out for the US would be to prove that Iran violated the JCPOA. But the current resident of the White House has already said he trusts Kim Jong-un on his intention to denuclearize. Why can't he trust the Iranian government? Huh? *mind boggles*


He probably doesn't trust either, but saying so after this summit would mean admitting "I got nothing". His "win" only exists by trusting Kim.

Since Trump fans neither know nor care that all Trump got was previously existing NK government policies, it obviously works.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Kiwirob
Posts: 11573
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:16 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:36 am

aviationaware wrote:
The educated people left Iran in 1979 and are now living in America and Europe. Defending a country ruled by an extremist theocracy that's pumping billions of dollars into terrorism is pretty pathetic of you.


Which terrorists are they supporting?
 
jetero
Posts: 4094
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:22 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Good, if Boeing wants to act like a political organization, they should be treated like one. Hopefully when all is said and done Iran comes out owning Boeing.


Well you obviously can’t see up from down. Boeing is not a political organization, nor did they purport to be as such.
Last edited by jetero on Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:41 am

Deecheck wrote:
This is what happens when a president (Obama) enacts a deal without including Congress and the consent of the American people.

They were told at the time this was going to happen but they did it anyway.


The US Congress has enacted the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act of 2015. It expressly gives the US President the authority to sign the deal with Iran. It also says the results of the IAEA inspections are to be reviewed every couple of months, in order to react to a possible Iranian breach of the deal.

But Iran has followed the JCPOA obligations to the letter. Trump's withdrawal from the treaty has no basis in national nor international law.

tommy1808 wrote:
Since Trump fans neither know nor care that all Trump got was previously existing NK government policies, it obviously works.


Never mind that Kim's predecessor already agreed to inspections in the 1994 deal... which was poorly enforced, though.


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
User avatar
mad99
Posts: 1098
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:33 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:51 am

Kiwirob wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
The educated people left Iran in 1979 and are now living in America and Europe. Defending a country ruled by an extremist theocracy that's pumping billions of dollars into terrorism is pretty pathetic of you.


Which terrorists are they supporting?



Hezbollah
terror group according to the usa and a few others
 
User avatar
flyingturtle
Posts: 5438
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 1:39 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:16 am

mad99 wrote:
Hezbollah
terror group according to the usa and a few others


Heh, now it gets difficult.

Hezbollah is fighting ISIS and the as-Nusra front.

And in the past, it was really, really funny...

Israel funded the South Lebanese Army as a paramilitary group in order to keep Israeli troops safe.

Iran funded the Hezbollah as a paramilitary group in order to keep Israeli troops out of Lebanon.


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
JJJ
Posts: 3006
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 5:12 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:28 am

flyingturtle wrote:
Iran funded the Hezbollah as a paramilitary group in order to keep Israeli troops out of Lebanon.


David


And Hezbollah is now a government party in Lebanon, with whom the US has full diplomatic relations.
 
User avatar
mad99
Posts: 1098
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:33 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:13 pm

Hezbollah says it now has enough experience fighting in Syria to liberate Palestine. The Palestinians in Syria fight with ISIS against Hezbollah!
 
User avatar
Super80Fan
Posts: 1104
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:06 pm

jetero wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Good, if Boeing wants to act like a political organization, they should be treated like one. Hopefully when all is said and done Iran comes out owning Boeing.


Well you obviously can’t see up from down. Boeing is not a political organization, nor did they purport to be as such.


Oh yes they are. They stopped being an aerospace manufacturer when they donate to political groups and sue to get rid of the competition. As I said before, karma is a you know what and Boeing deserves everything they got coming to them. When all is said and done Boeing should be Iranian owned.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
 
User avatar
ER757
Posts: 3115
Joined: Tue May 10, 2005 10:16 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:50 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
ER757 wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Good, if Boeing wants to act like a political organization, they should be treated like one. Hopefully when all is said and done Iran comes out owning Boeing.

Yeah.....i am sure that'll happen :sarcastic:


I'm hoping. Boeing needs to get what's coming to them soon.

You may as well hope for a White Christmas in Doha - you'll have a better chance of getting your wish :lol:
 
sierrakilo44
Posts: 144
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:38 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:31 pm

[quote] Hezbollah
terror group according to the usa and a few others
[/quote]

The US is now backing the MEK. A terrorist group and a cult responsible for hundred of deaths than was listed as a terror group for decades by the US government until they successfully lobbied to have that removed. Even though they virtually no support in Iran they are now the USA’s preferred alternate government. They had John bolton and Rudy Giuliani speak at their conference last year. Bolton said the MEK would be in power in Tehran by the end of 2019.
 
Casobs
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:24 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:17 pm

flyingturtle wrote:
Deecheck wrote:
This is what happens when a president (Obama) enacts a deal without including Congress and the consent of the American people.

They were told at the time this was going to happen but they did it anyway.


The US Congress has enacted the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act of 2015. It expressly gives the US President the authority to sign the deal with Iran. It also says the results of the IAEA inspections are to be reviewed every couple of months, in order to react to a possible Iranian breach of the deal.

But Iran has followed the JCPOA obligations to the letter. Trump's withdrawal from the treaty has no basis in national nor international law.

tommy1808 wrote:
Since Trump fans neither know nor care that all Trump got was previously existing NK government policies, it obviously works.


Never mind that Kim's predecessor already agreed to inspections in the 1994 deal... which was poorly enforced, though.


David


They might have given the authority but the president still had the right to kill the deal. They said he would, he campaigned on that and he follows through.
 
oslmgm
Posts: 177
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:29 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:06 pm

Casobs wrote:
They might have given the authority but the president still had the right to kill the deal. They said he would, he campaigned on that and he follows through.


Which means, the signature of an American president doesn't mean anything anymore. That could become a problem for the USA.
 
Casobs
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:24 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:42 pm

oslmgm wrote:
Casobs wrote:
They might have given the authority but the president still had the right to kill the deal. They said he would, he campaigned on that and he follows through.


Which means, the signature of an American president doesn't mean anything anymore. That could become a problem for the USA.


A agree. The Congress needs to be the more powerful and influential branch.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 9000
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:08 am

Casobs wrote:
They might have given the authority but the president still had the right to kill the deal.


Under US law he may have the right to kill the deal, but US law matters only in the US. This is an international issue, so US law has zero relevance. It just happens that in the US international law isnt applicable in domestic courts. Also the reason why the US has signed and ratified lots of social security standards as human rights for everybody else, but US Citizens.
Under international law he had no right to withdrawal, he violated good faith.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Scorpius
Posts: 741
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:27 am

I think that this is great news for Russia - almost immediately after the failure to supply Boeing, Russia and Iran signed an agreement on the supply of 40 SSJ100R aircraft, and instead of Boeing aircraft, Iran could buy Russian MS-21. I believe that the more the West will show its real face, the more people will understand that there is no need to have any business with the West, if you do not want to be deceived.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 9000
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:08 am

Scorpius wrote:
, Iran could buy Russian MS-21. .


what Russian MS-21 are you fantasying about?

Can Hamilton Sundstrand deliver to Iran?
Can Rockwell Collins deliver to Iran?
Can Honeywel deliver to Iran?,
Can UTC Aerospace System supply to Iran?
Elbit? To Iran? Are you sure?

Just because there is a Russian Engine, that has an almost 25% higher specific fuel consumption than the CFM/PW offerings flies pretty much in the face of

Scorpius wrote:
there is no need to have any business with the West.


yeah, you don´t need to do business with the West. If it is ok to you to work at efficiencies from 30 years ago that is.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Scorpius
Posts: 741
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 am

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:16 am

tommy1808 wrote:
Just because there is a Russian Engine, that has an almost 25% higher specific fuel consumption than the CFM/PW offerings flies pretty much in the face of

You lie. PD-14 has a specific flow rate of 0.525 at a specific flow rate of 0.51 for PW1400G. At the same time, PD-14 has ~10% lower cost.


yeah, you don´t need to do business with the West. If it is ok to you to work at efficiencies from 30 years ago that is.

Lying again. Overall, labour efficiency in Russia is the same or higher than in the EU or the US. Evidence of this is the fact that Russia produces aircraft, missiles, electronics, nuclear reactors. Inefficient countries do not have their own high-tech products in the economy.

Can Hamilton Sundstrand deliver to Iran?
Can Rockwell Collins deliver to Iran?
Can Honeywel deliver to Iran?,
Can UTC Aerospace System supply to Iran?
Elbit? To Iran? Are you sure?

All of these companies will be happy to cooperate if there is a way to circumvent the sanctions.
 
User avatar
scbriml
Posts: 15970
Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:37 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:18 am

Scorpius wrote:
All of these companies will be happy to cooperate if there is a way to circumvent the sanctions.


No they won't, absolutely not. No reputable American company will ever knowingly break any US-imposed sanctions. :shakehead:

If Airbus will not be allowed to export American parts to Iran, what makes you think a Russian company will be? You're dreaming.

By the way, it's not very polite to call someone a liar. He might be mistaken or just plain wrong, but that doesn't make him a liar. Then again, you might be wrong but that doesn't make you a liar either.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 9000
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:22 am

Scorpius wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
Just because there is a Russian Engine, that has an almost 25% higher specific fuel consumption than the CFM/PW offerings flies pretty much in the face of

You lie.


i never lie, just bad sources in this case. Ferpe puts the PD-14 at a 2.5% disadvantage. Did any commercial operator order it yet?

Overall, labour efficiency in Russia is the same or higher than in the EU or the US. Evidence of this is the fact that Russia produces aircraft, missiles, electronics, nuclear reactors. Inefficient countries do not have their own high-tech products in the economy.


I have no doubt that a Russian can cut down trees about as efficient as a EU or US worker, but that doesn´t change that Russia manufacturers make no marketable high-tech items. The only people that buy Russian tech are those that can´t buy western tech or have political reasons to source in opposing blocks.
Why did i chose cutting down trees as an example? Because raw sawn wood is the most high tech manufactured good Russia makes that is somewhat competitive on the world market. Export numbers don´t lie. But apparently even cutting treas in raw cuts has a quality and efficiently level so low that a good chunk of customers doesn´t even trust Russian companies with that. Your microprocessors have to be made in foreign countries, with a process that is three generations old, unless you make them in Russia. With equipment so old that AMD was about to through it away.

Image

Russia is so far back ins most areas of technology that not even the Chinese want to buy your "Technology" anymore. Russia can not even make high grade motor oil, as the biggest Oil exporter, and have to import those at a tune of 1 billion USD/year.

Can Hamilton Sundstrand deliver to Iran?
Can Rockwell Collins deliver to Iran?
Can Honeywel deliver to Iran?,
Can UTC Aerospace System supply to Iran?
Elbit? To Iran? Are you sure?

All of these companies will be happy to cooperate if there is a way to circumvent the sanctions.


If sanctions can be circumvented, they can just buy Boeing or Airbus.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
Casobs
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:24 pm

Re: Iran seeks to sue Boeing.

Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:51 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
Casobs wrote:
They might have given the authority but the president still had the right to kill the deal.


Under US law he may have the right to kill the deal, but US law matters only in the US. This is an international issue, so US law has zero relevance. It just happens that in the US international law isnt applicable in domestic courts. Also the reason why the US has signed and ratified lots of social security standards as human rights for everybody else, but US Citizens.
Under international law he had no right to withdrawal, he violated good faith.

best regards
Thomas


We will see.

Americans don't care in the end.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: aerlingus747, alfa164, Braybuddy, c933103, trpmb6 and 45 guests

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos