2122M
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True Republican Values

Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:08 pm

So I know this thread will likely go off the rails, but I am very curios to hear from republicans as to why Trump is enjoying historically high approval ratings from republicans at the moment. I'm intrigues by this because he seems to act and lead in a way that is counter to historically conservative values and this makes me wonder what the REAL values are the republicans are supporting him for.

For example, the GOP has always painted itself as the 'Family Values' party, and yet 87% of polled republicans seem to think Trump is great, despite his well know affairs, multiple marriages and of course the Access Hollywood tape.

The GOP has always tried to portray themselves as the fiscally responsible party, but there is no longer any questions that the Trump tax cuts and budget will add to the deficit and put the US into much deeper debt. analysis from both sides of the aisle have come to that conclusion, but apparently 87% of republicans don't care.

The GOP and always tried to be the party of 'American Exceptionalism' and always sold their party and the one that would be a strong world leader. but 87% of republicans don't care the Trump is withdrawing the US from the world stage at every given opportunity (TPP, Paris, Iran, Refugees, etc...).

The GOP has always been the party of the strong military,. in this regard, Trump has thrown more money at the military, but by most accounts the military was already the strongest in the world (by far) and the additional money just flies in the face of the fiscal conservatives.

With those points in mind, exactly what are the values of the 87% of republicans that are causing them to support Trump?

And to be clear, I'm not asking just so I can argue tell people they are wrong. I honestly am looking for insight here. Most conversations will likely not end in agreement or minds being changed, but hopefully there can be a few, "I understand but respectfully disagree" moments.

http://news.gallup.com/poll/203198/pres ... trump.aspx
 
jetero
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Re: True Republican Values

Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:12 pm

I tried with "What is the endgame of Republicans" thread a year ago, tried to resurrect it, don't think anything has changed.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1364619

I think DocLightning had it best:

I'll weigh in: it appears that the only end game for the GOP is to establish a permanent GOP-dominated nation, in other words, a dictatorship in which elections will continue (for now) but those elections will have no practical effect on the balance of power in Washington. They have done this with their REDMAP progect, a policy of disenfranchisement of likely opposition voters, gerrymandering, and the use of highly biased propaganda networks (FOX and now Breitbart) posing as "news." I've been watching them at it since 1994 and it's working. Ultimately, I suspect that some elements within the Party would like to establish a state of theocratic feudalism.

I don't know if we'll be able to stop it.
 
2122M
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Re: True Republican Values

Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:25 pm

That makes sense as it relates to the politicians and party members, but I'm more curious about the support from voters. This thread is more a response to that poll showing 87% approval from republican voters. What is leading to that support?

In reality I'm guess both parties would love to have a permanent hold on power.
 
jetero
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Re: True Republican Values

Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:42 pm

The majority of people actually believe he cares about "them," in the whole forgotten man sense of the word and is "doing the right thing," although I'm not sure they've thought through what that means enough other than cutting taxes, cutting regulations (when I've asked people nobody seems to be able to say exactly what has been cut, other than the Keystone pipeline), and "draining the swamp."

Sadly probably a good 10% of them are texdravid-types who think of doing anything you can do to make the "liberal" or "leftist" boogeyman unhappy as some form of bloodsport.

Then you got another subset that thinks Trump's caricature of toughness means that America is somehow tougher.

Then you got another subset of religious zealots who think that the country was on a 1-way track to hell because 2 men can get married, abortion is legal, and a very, very small number of people born with male genitalia think of themselves as women, notwithstanding the fact that none of it has any bearing on their day-to-day life other than the general expectation to be civil. And somehow

Then you got people who are so damned cynical and are absolutely incapable of evaluating degree (e.g., 10 and 100 is somehow equivalent to 1) who think that any behavior is excusable because everyone somehow does it.

Some probably have been convinced since the Reagan era that government can't do anything right, and since Trump seems to be a caricature of anti-government, they like him.

Plenty of people seem to like the whole "putting people (i.e., minorities) in their place" dimension.

Some probably enjoy the reality TV show strongman side of it.

I suspect though that plenty of people don't pay attention, however, to know what is real and what is not enough to have a truly informed opinion. (Thank you Fox News.)

But, of course, you're asking the wrong person as I am certainly not one, nor ever will be, as will be the case for a majority of my cohorts who have watched their entire life the Republican Party rip the country apart, nevermind what traditionally "conservative" values I may hold.
 
2122M
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Re: True Republican Values

Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:12 pm

That may be true, but t the poll said 87% of registered Republicans, and I think it was 31% of the respondents identified that way. The way that math works out according to the poll, about 27% of voting age Americans fall into this category of GOP Trump supporters, or about 62 million people (based on 230 million voting age Americans) support him despite him going against the grain on the foundations of the republican party. As for the independents that support him (and there are many) I find it odd, but its not like he is working against any established 'independent' ideology, so they don't have to reconcile their support of him with any preset values.

But 62 million republicans? What is the basis for their support? It can't all be uninformed, angry bigots, can it?
 
jetero
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Re: True Republican Values

Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:03 pm

2122M wrote:
That may be true, but t the poll said 87% of registered Republicans, and I think it was 31% of the respondents identified that way. The way that math works out according to the poll, about 27% of voting age Americans fall into this category of GOP Trump supporters, or about 62 million people (based on 230 million voting age Americans) support him despite him going against the grain on the foundations of the republican party. As for the independents that support him (and there are many) I find it odd, but its not like he is working against any established 'independent' ideology, so they don't have to reconcile their support of him with any preset values.

But 62 million republicans? What is the basis for their support? It can't all be uninformed, angry bigots, can it?


Occam’s Razor ... They think he’s doing a good job and want him to do more of the same.

I don’t get it myself but that seems to be it.

The fact that the world hasn’t blown up as many predicted and the day-to-day seems to be similar, at least for registered Republicans, also probably works to his advantage.
 
afcjets
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:32 am

I am not affiliated with any political party but have been a Trump supporter from the beginning. I saw this on CNN yesterday (during a Fox commercial break of course :rotfl: )

"I think that Republicans have said basically in the past we nominated Boy Scouts like (Mitt) Romney, people who were squeaky clean, and the left launched such attacks on these people that they ended up looking like Lucifer," D'Souza said. "We're finally going to appoint a tough guy who can take it and can return a punch."
 
CCGPV
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:29 am

History doesn't mean anything. The Democrats were historically the party of the southern racists until a recent flip (BUT BUT BUT!!). See, doesn't mean a thing.

Most people are reactionary and uneducated about politics. Most people like to see a "strong man" in power. Most people need to blame someone for their problems. Most people want to be like Trump in some way (rich, powerful, successful, whatever metric you want). They hate Democrats and especially Clinton.

That is basically why. It works both ways and this time the republican guy convinced more people.

The rocket-ship economy helps tremendously.

The sheer fact the walls haven't come tumbling down like virtually every democrat and pundit on TV predicted (remember our descent into fascism and being on the brink of nuclear war?) says a lot about reality.
Stay curious
 
bagoldex
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:34 am

afcjets wrote:
I am not affiliated with any political party but have been a Trump supporter from the beginning. I saw this on CNN yesterday (during a Fox commercial break of course :rotfl: )

"I think that Republicans have said basically in the past we nominated Boy Scouts like (Mitt) Romney, people who were squeaky clean, and the left launched such attacks on these people that they ended up looking like Lucifer," D'Souza said. "We're finally going to appoint a tough guy who can take it and can return a punch."


But he's not a tough guy. He's a whiny little bitch.
 
910A
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:41 am

CCGPV wrote:
the republican guy convinced more people.
jetero wrote:
The majority of people actually believe he cares about "them


I seem to remember that another candidate won the popular vote.
jetero wrote:
I think DocLightning had it best:

I'll weigh in: it appears that the only end game for the GOP is to establish a permanent GOP-dominated nation, in other words, a dictatorship in which elections will continue (for now) but those elections will have no practical effect on the balance of power in Washington. They have done this with their REDMAP progect, a policy of disenfranchisement of likely opposition voters, gerrymandering, and the use of highly biased propaganda networks (FOX and now Breitbart) posing as "news." I've been watching them at it since 1994 and it's working. Ultimately, I suspect that some elements within the Party would like to establish a state of theocratic feudalism.

I don't know if we'll be able to stop it.

I've seen the same pattern since Newt Gingrich became Speaker of the House. Of course once the Fairness doctrine was done away it, the seeds were planted for this future. I've ponder that the Republicans are forming an apartheid government such as what South Africa was, minority rules.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:44 am

"Republican" and "values"?

In the same sentence?

bwaaa haaaa haaaa haaaaa haaaaa!
L' Esprit de Mai 68
 
afcjets
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:51 am

Yet all Democrats and Liberals do is virtue signaling which helps no one. It just makes them feel good about themselves and more importantly, superior.
Last edited by afcjets on Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
CCGPV
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:52 am

910A wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
the republican guy convinced more people.
jetero wrote:
The majority of people actually believe he cares about "them


I seem to remember that another candidate won the popular vote.
jetero wrote:
I think DocLightning had it best:

I'll weigh in: it appears that the only end game for the GOP is to establish a permanent GOP-dominated nation, in other words, a dictatorship in which elections will continue (for now) but those elections will have no practical effect on the balance of power in Washington. They have done this with their REDMAP progect, a policy of disenfranchisement of likely opposition voters, gerrymandering, and the use of highly biased propaganda networks (FOX and now Breitbart) posing as "news." I've been watching them at it since 1994 and it's working. Ultimately, I suspect that some elements within the Party would like to establish a state of theocratic feudalism.

I don't know if we'll be able to stop it.

I've seen the same pattern since Newt Gingrich became Speaker of the House. Of course once the Fairness doctrine was done away it, the seeds were planted for this future. I've ponder that the Republicans are forming an apartheid government such as what South Africa was, minority rules.


You're right we select the less popular person for president in the elections. Little known fact.

He won the election based on the rules that have been in existence for more than a century.
Stay curious
 
2122M
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:58 am

afcjets wrote:
I am not affiliated with any political party but have been a Trump supporter from the beginning. I saw this on CNN yesterday (during a Fox commercial break of course :rotfl: )

"I think that Republicans have said basically in the past we nominated Boy Scouts like (Mitt) Romney, people who were squeaky clean, and the left launched such attacks on these people that they ended up looking like Lucifer," D'Souza said. "We're finally going to appoint a tough guy who can take it and can return a punch."


So GOP voters are happy to throw away everything they stand for as a party in favor of a tough talker?
 
CCGPV
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:01 am

2122M wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I am not affiliated with any political party but have been a Trump supporter from the beginning. I saw this on CNN yesterday (during a Fox commercial break of course :rotfl: )

"I think that Republicans have said basically in the past we nominated Boy Scouts like (Mitt) Romney, people who were squeaky clean, and the left launched such attacks on these people that they ended up looking like Lucifer," D'Souza said. "We're finally going to appoint a tough guy who can take it and can return a punch."


So GOP voters are happy to throw away everything they stand for as a party in favor of a tough talker?


Trump is enacting legislation any modern republican would be doing if they were in office. Romney's or Ryan's or Bush's presidency would look almost identical to Trumps if you looked at it on a spreadsheet.

Take away the tweets and the crazy news cycles and its run of the mill conservative republican business as usual.
Stay curious
 
afcjets
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:03 am

2122M wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I am not affiliated with any political party but have been a Trump supporter from the beginning. I saw this on CNN yesterday (during a Fox commercial break of course :rotfl: )

"I think that Republicans have said basically in the past we nominated Boy Scouts like (Mitt) Romney, people who were squeaky clean, and the left launched such attacks on these people that they ended up looking like Lucifer," D'Souza said. "We're finally going to appoint a tough guy who can take it and can return a punch."


So GOP voters are happy to throw away everything they stand for as a party in favor of a tough talker?


No, they are finally starting to see results after decades of trying, which is why his approval rating has increased dramatically among Republicans, including the "never Trumpers"
 
seb146
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:09 am

afcjets wrote:
2122M wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I am not affiliated with any political party but have been a Trump supporter from the beginning. I saw this on CNN yesterday (during a Fox commercial break of course :rotfl: )

"I think that Republicans have said basically in the past we nominated Boy Scouts like (Mitt) Romney, people who were squeaky clean, and the left launched such attacks on these people that they ended up looking like Lucifer," D'Souza said. "We're finally going to appoint a tough guy who can take it and can return a punch."


So GOP voters are happy to throw away everything they stand for as a party in favor of a tough talker?


No, they are finally starting to see results after decades of trying, which is why his approval rating has increased dramatically among Republicans, including the "never Trumpers"


AFC, you are an intelligent person, so I have to ask: why do you support policies of lowering taxes and raising spending? That simply increase both the debt and the deficit. It is not good for the economy. It has been proven over and over again. Most notably George HW Bush and "Read My Lips!"
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Jouhou
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:15 am

afcjets wrote:
2122M wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I am not affiliated with any political party but have been a Trump supporter from the beginning. I saw this on CNN yesterday (during a Fox commercial break of course :rotfl: )

"I think that Republicans have said basically in the past we nominated Boy Scouts like (Mitt) Romney, people who were squeaky clean, and the left launched such attacks on these people that they ended up looking like Lucifer," D'Souza said. "We're finally going to appoint a tough guy who can take it and can return a punch."


So GOP voters are happy to throw away everything they stand for as a party in favor of a tough talker?


No, they are finally starting to see results after decades of trying, which is why his approval rating has increased dramatically among Republicans, including the "never Trumpers"


I know a lot of republicans who have switched to independent because of trump. They would not be polled as current republicans.

I'm pretty sure republicans were supposed too be about wholesome values, fiscal responsibility, and economic freedom. Not anymore.

Also I second that Trump is a whiney bitch. Hes a spoiled brat who never grew up and can't man up when he gets given no for an answer.
 
2122M
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:24 am

CCGPV wrote:
2122M wrote:
afcjets wrote:
I am not affiliated with any political party but have been a Trump supporter from the beginning. I saw this on CNN yesterday (during a Fox commercial break of course :rotfl: )

"I think that Republicans have said basically in the past we nominated Boy Scouts like (Mitt) Romney, people who were squeaky clean, and the left launched such attacks on these people that they ended up looking like Lucifer," D'Souza said. "We're finally going to appoint a tough guy who can take it and can return a punch."


So GOP voters are happy to throw away everything they stand for as a party in favor of a tough talker?


Trump is enacting legislation any modern republican would be doing if they were in office. Romney's or Ryan's or Bush's presidency would look almost identical to Trumps if you looked at it on a spreadsheet.

Take away the tweets and the crazy news cycles and its run of the mill conservative republican business as usual.


Read the original post. He is categorically NOT enacting conservative legislation. That’s the point of this topic and the reason I want to know why GOPers support him.
 
2122M
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:27 am

Jouhou wrote:
afcjets wrote:
2122M wrote:

So GOP voters are happy to throw away everything they stand for as a party in favor of a tough talker?


No, they are finally starting to see results after decades of trying, which is why his approval rating has increased dramatically among Republicans, including the "never Trumpers"


I know a lot of republicans who have switched to independent because of trump. They would not be polled as current republicans.

I'm pretty sure republicans were supposed too be about wholesome values, fiscal responsibility, and economic freedom. Not anymore.


And maybe thats the answer. Maybe those pillars of the GOP I mentioned in the first post are no longer applicable to this Tea Partied version. If that’s the case though, they need to own that and stop pretending they care about fiscal responsibility or family values.
 
CCGPV
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:40 am

2122M wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
2122M wrote:

So GOP voters are happy to throw away everything they stand for as a party in favor of a tough talker?


Trump is enacting legislation any modern republican would be doing if they were in office. Romney's or Ryan's or Bush's presidency would look almost identical to Trumps if you looked at it on a spreadsheet.

Take away the tweets and the crazy news cycles and its run of the mill conservative republican business as usual.


Read the original post. He is categorically NOT enacting conservative legislation. That’s the point of this topic and the reason I want to know why GOPers support him.


Its modern day conservatism branded legislation. Its a brand name. A lot of people on the right understand this. All of the GOP nominees would be enacting similar types of legislation as Trump. The "conservative" actions like we saw under HW or even Nixon are gone. This is going to be the new normal for the next election cycle at least. There's not one legitimate politician on either side that would reduce spending and the deficit. Its not going to happen. Why do people think it will? The fact is most people don't want the austerity that comes with that- on either side.

American politics swings like a pendulum. Right now is a reaction to the Obama years of world-centered diplomacy and identity politics of the left. Now the right is doing the same thing on their side. Happened with Bush/Clinton. Happened with Reagan/Carter. Its tradition. This time around is no different.

Comparing political parties to their "golden days" or traditional beliefs is silly.

Now that everyone has calmed down from the "we're in a fascist government" (remember that?) and being "on the brink of war" with NK (remember that too?) and the "he's literally a mentally ill person we need the 25th" (don't forge that!) we're seeing just another inept republican in office. We will ride this out and things will be OK. The USA and the world is much stronger and resilient than one inept administration.
Stay curious
 
2122M
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:48 am

CCGPV wrote:
Comparing political parties to their "golden days" or traditional beliefs is silly.


But the GOP is holding onto that brand. I’m not the one making this up. They are out there saying, “look at the left and their terrible spending. We’re much better than they are.” They are the ones saying, “look at how the left allows our traditional family values to be destroyed, we’ll protect those values”

If what your saying is true than it’s not that needs to let go of traditional party values, they do!
 
MaverickM11
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:00 am

afcjets wrote:
Yet all Democrats and Liberals do is virtue signaling which helps no one. It just makes them feel good about themselves and more importantly, superior.

I know irony is dead but the party o' Jesus whining about virtue signaling is truly next level, as if there is any greater virtue signaling than religion, or any of the other favorite GOP tropes, like personal responsibility (for you, not me), free markets (lolz jk!), free trade (nope!), personal freedom (unless you're not straight-white-christian-males), reigning in government spending (applies to Democrat admins only*)

2122M wrote:
He is categorically NOT enacting conservative legislation. That’s the point of this topic and the reason I want to know why GOPers support him.

White nationalism. The end. To heck with conservative legislation. They want to shake their fist at those uppity black athletes. They want to see little immigrant children put in cages. They want to see those homos put in their place for making them feel uncomfortable by existing. They want a candidate who is "get off my lawn/these damn kids" personified.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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seahawk
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:03 am

I think they are just happy that Trump angers persons they consider evil liberals. Hate driven politics imho, it is not important that your situation improves, it just matters that the people you hate suffer.
 
afcjets
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:21 am

2122M wrote:
He is categorically NOT enacting conservative legislation. That’s the point of this topic and the reason I want to know why GOPers support him.


Then the more important question is why do liberals hate him so much?
 
tommy1808
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:28 am

2122M wrote:
He is categorically NOT enacting conservative legislation. That’s the point of this topic and the reason I want to know why GOPers support him.


He is putting right wing judges on benches. If you do enough of that, elections basically become irrelevant. That is why.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
seb146
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:53 am

tommy1808 wrote:
2122M wrote:
He is categorically NOT enacting conservative legislation. That’s the point of this topic and the reason I want to know why GOPers support him.


He is putting right wing judges on benches. If you do enough of that, elections basically become irrelevant. That is why.

best regards
Thomas


I wonder if it is Pence or Sessions nominating judges?
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
seb146
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:54 am

afcjets wrote:
2122M wrote:
He is categorically NOT enacting conservative legislation. That’s the point of this topic and the reason I want to know why GOPers support him.


Then the more important question is why do liberals hate him so much?


Pus*y grabbing, third marriage, supremacists are "fine people," failed businesses... I wonder.....
You bet I'm pumped!!! I just had a green tea!!!
 
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Francoflier
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:00 am

Judging from supporters of the current government, it seems the only GOP value that seems to be shared among all its constituents is "But Democrats!/But Liberals!"...
Ironically, the term RINO does ring truer than when describing Trump.
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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Jouhou
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:07 am

seb146 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
2122M wrote:
He is categorically NOT enacting conservative legislation. That’s the point of this topic and the reason I want to know why GOPers support him.


He is putting right wing judges on benches. If you do enough of that, elections basically become irrelevant. That is why.

best regards
Thomas


I wonder if it is Pence or Sessions nominating judges?


I'm pretty sure gorsuch was in fact a McTurtle favorite.
 
jetero
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:41 am

TWA772LR wrote:
Im politically in the middle, but i do give Trump credit for NK, and i like the premise of fair trade with China and having our fellow NATO countries pull their weight.

I saw on ABC news the other day that the unemployment rate is 3.8%, the lowest its been in nearly 20 years. I dont give Trump credit for that, if anything its thanks to the economy naturally rebounding during the Obama years, so naturally Obama gets that credit. But it will be interesting if Trump can sustain it with acceptable fluctuations/deviations.

And ive said this since Trumps inauguration, i hope he has a healthy presidency be it 1 term or 2, because Pence is right behind him otherwise.


Oh TWA772LR, I hear you brother. I feel like I’m in living in the strange bubble that is Houston ... we seem to do just fine without all of this external crap. Hope Denver is treating you well!
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:41 am

Im politically in the middle, but i do give Trump credit for NK, and i like the premise of fair trade with China and having our fellow NATO countries pull their weight.

I saw on ABC news the other day that the unemployment rate is 3.8%, the lowest its been in nearly 20 years. I dont give Trump credit for that, if anything its thanks to the economy naturally rebounding during the Obama years, so naturally Obama gets that credit. But it will be interesting if Trump can sustain it with acceptable fluctuations/deviations.

And ive said this since Trumps inauguration, i hope he has a healthy presidency be it 1 term or 2, because Pence is right behind him otherwise.
You know all is right is the world when the only thing people worry about is if the president had sex with a pornstar.


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
tommy1808
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Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:25 am

TWA772LR wrote:
but i do give Trump credit for NK,


what did he accomplish aside of giving Kim undeserved recognition?

and i like the premise of fair trade with China


which has much more to do with them otherwise not being recognized as market economy by pretty much anyone than with any form of pressure from the US, and the PRC is trying to get that recognition since quite a while before Trump.

and having our fellow NATO countries pull their weight.


Which you have Russia and the increased threat to thank for, Trump has nothing to do with it. Planning for new NATO logistics commands in Ulm and Norfolk predates Trump just as much as the EUs plan to make Europe´s streets and bridges able to sustain tank traffic for a couple of billions. Increasing defense spending is more long term that Trump is in the WH. Germany for example had already started increasing spending beyond economic growth in 2015, right after the Crimea occupation..
Trump is just siphoning off the credit for things Obama got rolling, and different from the economy, where Presidents don´t have that much influence, that has worked. But without Russia becoming more aggressive, no amount of sweet talking or veiled threats would have moved military spending by a single USD.

Of course you have to go looking for those small page 34 bottom stories to notice stuff like checking roads for their tank column carrying capacity, and upgrade those streets and bridges that can´t for a total of over 7 Billion USD. NATO and the EU are are training and bringing people, organisation structure and infrastructure in place to to defend against an incursion by Russia. They do so very quietly and pretty stealthy. In terms of plain numbers Russia is outgunned by quite the margin anyways. "The West" deems a shooting war with Russia as much more likely than is publicly said. See also Sweden bringing the draft back and mailing "if crises or war comes" brochures to all households.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:33 pm

2122M wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
Comparing political parties to their "golden days" or traditional beliefs is silly.


But the GOP is holding onto that brand. I’m not the one making this up. They are out there saying, “look at the left and their terrible spending. We’re much better than they are.” They are the ones saying, “look at how the left allows our traditional family values to be destroyed, we’ll protect those values”

If what your saying is true than it’s not that needs to let go of traditional party values, they do!


Yes, they are holding on to the brand because it works. Trump was elected partly because of it. Brand names and slogans are used to illicit feelings, not to reflect facts. "Built Ford Tough" doesn't mean a damn thing anymore because everything is made of plastic but people still like to think Murican trucks are tough.

If people FEEL they are voting for the family values party or the financially responsible party that's all that matters. Of course its not true. Same reason people like a Facebook post or talk about the environment...it doesn't do a thing but makes people FEEL good.

You're trying to intellectualize politics and people's feelings. Don't do that. The best way to get what you want accomplished in national politics is to be the better manipulator. This time around the republicans eked out a win.
Stay curious
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:34 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
2122M wrote:
He is categorically NOT enacting conservative legislation. That’s the point of this topic and the reason I want to know why GOPers support him.


He is putting right wing judges on benches. If you do enough of that, elections basically become irrelevant. That is why.

best regards
Thomas


This is the #1 priority of every single Republican in government. Nothing is more important. Many people voted for Trump for this reason.
Stay curious
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:38 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
but i do give Trump credit for NK,


what did he accomplish aside of giving Kim undeserved recognition?

and i like the premise of fair trade with China


which has much more to do with them otherwise not being recognized as market economy by pretty much anyone than with any form of pressure from the US, and the PRC is trying to get that recognition since quite a while before Trump.

and having our fellow NATO countries pull their weight.


Which you have Russia and the increased threat to thank for, Trump has nothing to do with it. Planning for new NATO logistics commands in Ulm and Norfolk predates Trump just as much as the EUs plan to make Europe´s streets and bridges able to sustain tank traffic for a couple of billions. Increasing defense spending is more long term that Trump is in the WH. Germany for example had already started increasing spending beyond economic growth in 2015, right after the Crimea occupation..
Trump is just siphoning off the credit for things Obama got rolling, and different from the economy, where Presidents don´t have that much influence, that has worked. But without Russia becoming more aggressive, no amount of sweet talking or veiled threats would have moved military spending by a single USD.

Of course you have to go looking for those small page 34 bottom stories to notice stuff like checking roads for their tank column carrying capacity, and upgrade those streets and bridges that can´t for a total of over 7 Billion USD. NATO and the EU are are training and bringing people, organisation structure and infrastructure in place to to defend against an incursion by Russia. They do so very quietly and pretty stealthy. In terms of plain numbers Russia is outgunned by quite the margin anyways. "The West" deems a shooting war with Russia as much more likely than is publicly said. See also Sweden bringing the draft back and mailing "if crises or war comes" brochures to all households.

best regards
Thomas


Yes of all the positive aspects of world politics and the economy have nothing to do with Trump. Its only the bad things that are his fault.
Stay curious
 
2122M
Topic Author
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:41 pm

CCGPV wrote:
2122M wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
Comparing political parties to their "golden days" or traditional beliefs is silly.


But the GOP is holding onto that brand. I’m not the one making this up. They are out there saying, “look at the left and their terrible spending. We’re much better than they are.” They are the ones saying, “look at how the left allows our traditional family values to be destroyed, we’ll protect those values”

If what your saying is true than it’s not that needs to let go of traditional party values, they do!


Yes, they are holding on to the brand because it works. Trump was elected partly because of it. Brand names and slogans are used to illicit feelings, not to reflect facts. "Built Ford Tough" doesn't mean a damn thing anymore because everything is made of plastic but people still like to think Murican trucks are tough.

If people FEEL they are voting for the family values party or the financially responsible party that's all that matters. Of course its not true. Same reason people like a Facebook post or talk about the environment...it doesn't do a thing but makes people FEEL good.

You're trying to intellectualize politics and people's feelings. Don't do that. The best way to get what you want accomplished in national politics is to be the better manipulator. This time around the republicans eked out a win.


This is my exact point and the intended purpose of this thread. The election is long over and Trump has been proven not to be a champion for republican values. So why is he still getting very high approval ratings from republican voters?

Its like in your Ford example. sure, people bought into the "Ford Tough" slogan, but if the truck fell apart every time it hit a speed bump Ford would not enjoy an 87% client retention rate. However, GOPers seem not to care that their truck does not do what the manufacturer advertises. So what DO they care about?
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:53 pm

2122M wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
2122M wrote:

But the GOP is holding onto that brand. I’m not the one making this up. They are out there saying, “look at the left and their terrible spending. We’re much better than they are.” They are the ones saying, “look at how the left allows our traditional family values to be destroyed, we’ll protect those values”

If what your saying is true than it’s not that needs to let go of traditional party values, they do!


Yes, they are holding on to the brand because it works. Trump was elected partly because of it. Brand names and slogans are used to illicit feelings, not to reflect facts. "Built Ford Tough" doesn't mean a damn thing anymore because everything is made of plastic but people still like to think Murican trucks are tough.

If people FEEL they are voting for the family values party or the financially responsible party that's all that matters. Of course its not true. Same reason people like a Facebook post or talk about the environment...it doesn't do a thing but makes people FEEL good.

You're trying to intellectualize politics and people's feelings. Don't do that. The best way to get what you want accomplished in national politics is to be the better manipulator. This time around the republicans eked out a win.


This is my exact point and the intended purpose of this thread. The election is long over and Trump has been proven not to be a champion for republican values. So why is he still getting very high approval ratings from republican voters?

Its like in your Ford example. sure, people bought into the "Ford Tough" slogan, but if the truck fell apart every time it hit a speed bump Ford would not enjoy an 87% client retention rate. However, GOPers seem not to care that their truck does not do what the manufacturer advertises. So what DO they care about?


Because the economy is doing great. That's about 80% why.

Politics is alive and changes all the time. If the economy is going great nobody cares about what Republicans were 20 years go. He's getting higher approval ratings because he's enacting policies most Republicans want. Slashing regulations, easing financial burdens, supporting military expansion, anti-abortion and pro traditional marriage stances, "patriotism BS" ect. All run of the mill Republican stuff. What is he doing that Romney or Bush wouldn't be doing? Tweeting...sure but everything else is right down the line modern Republican business as usual. Nobody believes Trump cares about Jesus or family values but they are willing to put up with that because all of the other things are more important.

If you're in your 50's and have seen your retirement accounts double since he took office wouldn't you feel pretty confident? Everything else doesn't look as bad when your net worth has increased like that.
Stay curious
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 749
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:00 pm

2122M wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
2122M wrote:

But the GOP is holding onto that brand. I’m not the one making this up. They are out there saying, “look at the left and their terrible spending. We’re much better than they are.” They are the ones saying, “look at how the left allows our traditional family values to be destroyed, we’ll protect those values”

If what your saying is true than it’s not that needs to let go of traditional party values, they do!


Yes, they are holding on to the brand because it works. Trump was elected partly because of it. Brand names and slogans are used to illicit feelings, not to reflect facts. "Built Ford Tough" doesn't mean a damn thing anymore because everything is made of plastic but people still like to think Murican trucks are tough.

If people FEEL they are voting for the family values party or the financially responsible party that's all that matters. Of course its not true. Same reason people like a Facebook post or talk about the environment...it doesn't do a thing but makes people FEEL good.

You're trying to intellectualize politics and people's feelings. Don't do that. The best way to get what you want accomplished in national politics is to be the better manipulator. This time around the republicans eked out a win.


This is my exact point and the intended purpose of this thread. The election is long over and Trump has been proven not to be a champion for republican values. So why is he still getting very high approval ratings from republican voters?

Its like in your Ford example. sure, people bought into the "Ford Tough" slogan, but if the truck fell apart every time it hit a speed bump Ford would not enjoy an 87% client retention rate. However, GOPers seem not to care that their truck does not do what the manufacturer advertises. So what DO they care about?
They care about winning/not having a Democrat in control. That's the main thing. All the other "core values" are flexible, except making things easier on the wealthy (that's a Republican cornerstone).
 
2122M
Topic Author
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:08 pm

CCGPV wrote:
2122M wrote:
CCGPV wrote:

Yes, they are holding on to the brand because it works. Trump was elected partly because of it. Brand names and slogans are used to illicit feelings, not to reflect facts. "Built Ford Tough" doesn't mean a damn thing anymore because everything is made of plastic but people still like to think Murican trucks are tough.

If people FEEL they are voting for the family values party or the financially responsible party that's all that matters. Of course its not true. Same reason people like a Facebook post or talk about the environment...it doesn't do a thing but makes people FEEL good.

You're trying to intellectualize politics and people's feelings. Don't do that. The best way to get what you want accomplished in national politics is to be the better manipulator. This time around the republicans eked out a win.


This is my exact point and the intended purpose of this thread. The election is long over and Trump has been proven not to be a champion for republican values. So why is he still getting very high approval ratings from republican voters?

Its like in your Ford example. sure, people bought into the "Ford Tough" slogan, but if the truck fell apart every time it hit a speed bump Ford would not enjoy an 87% client retention rate. However, GOPers seem not to care that their truck does not do what the manufacturer advertises. So what DO they care about?


Because the economy is doing great. That's about 80% why.

Politics is alive and changes all the time. If the economy is going great nobody cares about what Republicans were 20 years go. He's getting higher approval ratings because he's enacting policies most Republicans want. Slashing regulations, easing financial burdens, supporting military expansion, anti-abortion and pro traditional marriage stances, "patriotism BS" ect. All run of the mill Republican stuff. What is he doing that Romney or Bush wouldn't be doing? Tweeting...sure but everything else is right down the line modern Republican business as usual. Nobody believes Trump cares about Jesus or family values but they are willing to put up with that because all of the other things are more important.

If you're in your 50's and have seen your retirement accounts double since he took office wouldn't you feel pretty confident? Everything else doesn't look as bad when your net worth has increased like that.


So your theory on the matter is that GOP voters have no core values as long as they are making money in the short term?
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:17 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
2122M wrote:
CCGPV wrote:

Yes, they are holding on to the brand because it works. Trump was elected partly because of it. Brand names and slogans are used to illicit feelings, not to reflect facts. "Built Ford Tough" doesn't mean a damn thing anymore because everything is made of plastic but people still like to think Murican trucks are tough.

If people FEEL they are voting for the family values party or the financially responsible party that's all that matters. Of course its not true. Same reason people like a Facebook post or talk about the environment...it doesn't do a thing but makes people FEEL good.

You're trying to intellectualize politics and people's feelings. Don't do that. The best way to get what you want accomplished in national politics is to be the better manipulator. This time around the republicans eked out a win.


This is my exact point and the intended purpose of this thread. The election is long over and Trump has been proven not to be a champion for republican values. So why is he still getting very high approval ratings from republican voters?

Its like in your Ford example. sure, people bought into the "Ford Tough" slogan, but if the truck fell apart every time it hit a speed bump Ford would not enjoy an 87% client retention rate. However, GOPers seem not to care that their truck does not do what the manufacturer advertises. So what DO they care about?
They care about winning/not having a Democrat in control. That's the main thing. All the other "core values" are flexible, except making things easier on the wealthy (that's a Republican cornerstone).


Pretty much. That's the nature of politics.

And most of "the rich" you are talking about are upper middle and upper class people who pay most of the taxes (like 70% of all tax revenue). As harsh as it is most of the "inner city" and low income folks don't pay any taxes so of course they're not going to "get a break". Almost half of American's don't pay any federal income tax at all. The ones "getting the break" are paying for virtually everything already.

They also happen to vote more consistently than the lower income and younger groups so its a powerful voting block.
Stay curious
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:22 pm

2122M wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
2122M wrote:

This is my exact point and the intended purpose of this thread. The election is long over and Trump has been proven not to be a champion for republican values. So why is he still getting very high approval ratings from republican voters?

Its like in your Ford example. sure, people bought into the "Ford Tough" slogan, but if the truck fell apart every time it hit a speed bump Ford would not enjoy an 87% client retention rate. However, GOPers seem not to care that their truck does not do what the manufacturer advertises. So what DO they care about?


Because the economy is doing great. That's about 80% why.

Politics is alive and changes all the time. If the economy is going great nobody cares about what Republicans were 20 years go. He's getting higher approval ratings because he's enacting policies most Republicans want. Slashing regulations, easing financial burdens, supporting military expansion, anti-abortion and pro traditional marriage stances, "patriotism BS" ect. All run of the mill Republican stuff. What is he doing that Romney or Bush wouldn't be doing? Tweeting...sure but everything else is right down the line modern Republican business as usual. Nobody believes Trump cares about Jesus or family values but they are willing to put up with that because all of the other things are more important.

If you're in your 50's and have seen your retirement accounts double since he took office wouldn't you feel pretty confident? Everything else doesn't look as bad when your net worth has increased like that.


So your theory on the matter is that GOP voters have no core values as long as they are making money in the short term?


No, not at all. Most people have their retirements tied to the market. I bet you do too. You are invested in seeing the market continually improve because you want to retire or buy a house or expand your business.

As long as the economy continues to expand and remain very strong we will see Trump's (and the republicans) popularity remain steady or improve. Its not about "greedy people" it benefits everyone. The unemployment rate is so low because of the economy. That is a good thing for everyone.
Stay curious
 
tommy1808
Posts: 7899
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:30 pm

CCGPV wrote:
. Its only the bad things that are his fault.


exactly. So far he himself has only done bad to downright evil or suicidal things. Everything else was in fact in motion before he even took office or hasn´t shown any positive result yet. NK may end up a surprise, but i wouldn´t put money on it.

CCGPV wrote:
This is the #1 priority of every single Republican in government. Nothing is more important. Many people voted for Trump for this reason.


Yup, it is the party for Christian Taliban and Christianity and Democracy are mutually exclusive.

best regards
Tomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
2122M
Topic Author
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:31 pm

CCGPV wrote:
2122M wrote:
CCGPV wrote:

Because the economy is doing great. That's about 80% why.

Politics is alive and changes all the time. If the economy is going great nobody cares about what Republicans were 20 years go. He's getting higher approval ratings because he's enacting policies most Republicans want. Slashing regulations, easing financial burdens, supporting military expansion, anti-abortion and pro traditional marriage stances, "patriotism BS" ect. All run of the mill Republican stuff. What is he doing that Romney or Bush wouldn't be doing? Tweeting...sure but everything else is right down the line modern Republican business as usual. Nobody believes Trump cares about Jesus or family values but they are willing to put up with that because all of the other things are more important.

If you're in your 50's and have seen your retirement accounts double since he took office wouldn't you feel pretty confident? Everything else doesn't look as bad when your net worth has increased like that.


So your theory on the matter is that GOP voters have no core values as long as they are making money in the short term?


No, not at all. Most people have their retirements tied to the market. I bet you do too. You are invested in seeing the market continually improve because you want to retire or buy a house or expand your business.

As long as the economy continues to expand and remain very strong we will see Trump's (and the republicans) popularity remain steady or improve. Its not about "greedy people" it benefits everyone. The unemployment rate is so low because of the economy. That is a good thing for everyone.


I don't buy that at all. Republican voters saw the economy grow and unemployment fall for 7 straight years during the Obama presidency and he was rewarded with a 10% approval rating from republicans. So its clearly not about the market.
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:45 pm

2122M wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
2122M wrote:

So your theory on the matter is that GOP voters have no core values as long as they are making money in the short term?


No, not at all. Most people have their retirements tied to the market. I bet you do too. You are invested in seeing the market continually improve because you want to retire or buy a house or expand your business.

As long as the economy continues to expand and remain very strong we will see Trump's (and the republicans) popularity remain steady or improve. Its not about "greedy people" it benefits everyone. The unemployment rate is so low because of the economy. That is a good thing for everyone.


I don't buy that at all. Republican voters saw the economy grow and unemployment fall for 7 straight years during the Obama presidency and he was rewarded with a 10% approval rating from republicans. So its clearly not about the market.


Like I've said before the party is more important than anything. Would you ever vote for Trump over an unpopular Democrat? I doubt it. I still voted for Clinton even though I thought she was a terrible person and candidate. We're talking about popularity among his own party. Most people in the inner cities loved Obama even though he didn't do anything for race relations or their economic stagnation. Why did Obama have 90% approval from the black population? You can say the same things. Its ideology.

You're also discounting where the economy was when he took office. It might have not been fair or his fault but it was awful. The worst economy any of us had ever seen. And the slowest recovery. Many economists blame his fiscal policy on that. Its up for debate but when you're in office you get the blame and the praise.

If the market tanked tomorrow you'd see his approval ratings tank and the Democrats would have a big upper hand in the midterms instead of the tepid results we've seen so far. There's not been this blue wave everyone has been predicting with almost certainty. I'm worried about the elections because at this rate the republicans are going to maintain the house and senate.
Stay curious
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:46 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
. Its only the bad things that are his fault.


exactly. So far he himself has only done bad to downright evil or suicidal things. Everything else was in fact in motion before he even took office or hasn´t shown any positive result yet. NK may end up a surprise, but i wouldn´t put money on it.

CCGPV wrote:
This is the #1 priority of every single Republican in government. Nothing is more important. Many people voted for Trump for this reason.


Yup, it is the party for Christian Taliban and Christianity and Democracy are mutually exclusive.

best regards
Tomas


Well that sounds reasonable.
Stay curious
 
2122M
Topic Author
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:54 pm

CCGPV wrote:
2122M wrote:
CCGPV wrote:

No, not at all. Most people have their retirements tied to the market. I bet you do too. You are invested in seeing the market continually improve because you want to retire or buy a house or expand your business.

As long as the economy continues to expand and remain very strong we will see Trump's (and the republicans) popularity remain steady or improve. Its not about "greedy people" it benefits everyone. The unemployment rate is so low because of the economy. That is a good thing for everyone.


I don't buy that at all. Republican voters saw the economy grow and unemployment fall for 7 straight years during the Obama presidency and he was rewarded with a 10% approval rating from republicans. So its clearly not about the market.


Like I've said before the party is more important than anything. Would you ever vote for Trump over an unpopular Democrat? I doubt it. I still voted for Clinton even though I thought she was a terrible person and candidate. We're talking about popularity among his own party. Most people in the inner cities loved Obama even though he didn't do anything for race relations or their economic stagnation. Why did Obama have 90% approval from the black population? You can say the same things. Its ideology.

You're also discounting where the economy was when he took office. It might have not been fair or his fault but it was awful. The worst economy any of us had ever seen. And the slowest recovery. Many economists blame his fiscal policy on that. Its up for debate but when you're in office you get the blame and the praise.

If the market tanked tomorrow you'd see his approval ratings tank and the Democrats would have a big upper hand in the midterms instead of the tepid results we've seen so far. There's not been this blue wave everyone has been predicting with almost certainty. I'm worried about the elections because at this rate the republicans are going to maintain the house and senate.


OK, I really think you are missing my point. Maybe I'm phrasing the question wrong. I get party loyalty, but Trump is not being loyal to the party, so why are his party's voter loyal to him? You seem to be going back to "Well, the market is good". If that is what you think is allowing republicans to abandon their traditional values and support a guy like Trump, just say so. That's an acceptable theory.

Furthermore, you are not a Trump voter or conservative, so anything you say is just a guess or a theory. I really was hoping to hear from people in the group I'm describing. Conservative Republicans that support Trump. The 87% I'm referring to. I appreciate the insight from afcjets. While I disagree with what he is saying, its probably indicative of what that 87% believes and feels.
 
CCGPV
Posts: 1292
Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:18 pm

Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:05 pm

2122M wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
2122M wrote:

I don't buy that at all. Republican voters saw the economy grow and unemployment fall for 7 straight years during the Obama presidency and he was rewarded with a 10% approval rating from republicans. So its clearly not about the market.


Like I've said before the party is more important than anything. Would you ever vote for Trump over an unpopular Democrat? I doubt it. I still voted for Clinton even though I thought she was a terrible person and candidate. We're talking about popularity among his own party. Most people in the inner cities loved Obama even though he didn't do anything for race relations or their economic stagnation. Why did Obama have 90% approval from the black population? You can say the same things. Its ideology.

You're also discounting where the economy was when he took office. It might have not been fair or his fault but it was awful. The worst economy any of us had ever seen. And the slowest recovery. Many economists blame his fiscal policy on that. Its up for debate but when you're in office you get the blame and the praise.

If the market tanked tomorrow you'd see his approval ratings tank and the Democrats would have a big upper hand in the midterms instead of the tepid results we've seen so far. There's not been this blue wave everyone has been predicting with almost certainty. I'm worried about the elections because at this rate the republicans are going to maintain the house and senate.


OK, I really think you are missing my point. Maybe I'm phrasing the question wrong. I get party loyalty, but Trump is not being loyal to the party, so why are his party's voter loyal to him? You seem to be going back to "Well, the market is good". If that is what you think is allowing republicans to abandon their traditional values and support a guy like Trump, just say so. That's an acceptable theory.

Furthermore, you are not a Trump voter or conservative, so anything you say is just a guess or a theory. I really was hoping to hear from people in the group I'm describing. Conservative Republicans that support Trump. The 87% I'm referring to. I appreciate the insight from afcjets. While I disagree with what he is saying, its probably indicative of what that 87% believes and feels.


Trump is the party now. Its not a monolithic entity. The President is the head of the party and determines the direction as long as they are in office. That's why all the republicans running now are cozying up to Trump because he's the leader of the party. Ryan tried to keep the traditional party alive but he failed and he's leaving. McConnell is trying to maintain but is playing the long game. He's more concerned with the judiciary and long term goals. Reagan did the same thing by drastically altering the traditional Republican MO and it stuck. Maybe Trump's version will too. If he loses the election in 2020 to another Republican we might see a change back but its not looking like that at the moment. In politics you can't judge the future by the past.

I live and grew up in the South and have very conservative friends and family. I have a degree in political science. I've voted for republicans in the past and I know many think and feel. You're injecting too much logic and thought into it.
Stay curious
 
Mir
Posts: 19480
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:10 pm

2122M wrote:
With those points in mind, exactly what are the values of the 87% of republicans that are causing them to support Trump?


Pwning the libs. It's all about pwning the libs. Screw the economy, screw healthcare, screw our whole system of government and the rule of law. Just pwn the libs and you'll find open arms among Republicans.
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
2122M
Topic Author
Posts: 329
Joined: Wed Jul 31, 2013 1:35 pm

Re: True Republican Values

Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:17 pm

CCGPV wrote:
2122M wrote:
CCGPV wrote:

Like I've said before the party is more important than anything. Would you ever vote for Trump over an unpopular Democrat? I doubt it. I still voted for Clinton even though I thought she was a terrible person and candidate. We're talking about popularity among his own party. Most people in the inner cities loved Obama even though he didn't do anything for race relations or their economic stagnation. Why did Obama have 90% approval from the black population? You can say the same things. Its ideology.

You're also discounting where the economy was when he took office. It might have not been fair or his fault but it was awful. The worst economy any of us had ever seen. And the slowest recovery. Many economists blame his fiscal policy on that. Its up for debate but when you're in office you get the blame and the praise.

If the market tanked tomorrow you'd see his approval ratings tank and the Democrats would have a big upper hand in the midterms instead of the tepid results we've seen so far. There's not been this blue wave everyone has been predicting with almost certainty. I'm worried about the elections because at this rate the republicans are going to maintain the house and senate.


OK, I really think you are missing my point. Maybe I'm phrasing the question wrong. I get party loyalty, but Trump is not being loyal to the party, so why are his party's voter loyal to him? You seem to be going back to "Well, the market is good". If that is what you think is allowing republicans to abandon their traditional values and support a guy like Trump, just say so. That's an acceptable theory.

Furthermore, you are not a Trump voter or conservative, so anything you say is just a guess or a theory. I really was hoping to hear from people in the group I'm describing. Conservative Republicans that support Trump. The 87% I'm referring to. I appreciate the insight from afcjets. While I disagree with what he is saying, its probably indicative of what that 87% believes and feels.


Trump is the party now. Its not a monolithic entity. The President is the head of the party and determines the direction as long as they are in office. That's why all the republicans running now are cozying up to Trump because he's the leader of the party. Ryan tried to keep the traditional party alive but he failed and he's leaving. McConnell is trying to maintain but is playing the long game. He's more concerned with the judiciary and long term goals. Reagan did the same thing by drastically altering the traditional Republican MO and it stuck. Maybe Trump's version will too. If he loses the election in 2020 to another Republican we might see a change back but its not looking like that at the moment. In politics you can't judge the future by the past.

I live and grew up in the South and have very conservative friends and family. I have a degree in political science. I've voted for republicans in the past and I know many think and feel. You're injecting too much logic and thought into it.


PoliSci Bachelors and heritage aside, you are not who I'm interested in hearing from. You are not in the 87%. All you have is the theory that republican voters value blind party loyalty and don't care about traditional values and/or they don't have any values at all as long as the market is up. You can re-word it however many times as you want, that is what you are saying over and over again. It's been heard and noted.

A question for someone who voted for, and still supports Trump, is he wrong? Have republican voters followed the lead of their politicians and given up caring about family values and fiscal responsibility? If so, what do they care about instead? If not, how do you reconcile that with Trump?

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