Delta ends JFK-Havana, return authority

LAXintl · Fri May 25, 2018 9:55 pm

Delta notified the DOT today that it will end its JFK-Havana route effective September 1st and return corresponding frequency.
Carrier says route was not commercially viable and seeks to focus on ensuring the success of its Atlanta and Miami to Havana routes.

DL had already last December returned 6 weekly frequencies saying JFK-HAV would operate as weekend service only.

=

OST-2016-0021

janders · Fri May 25, 2018 9:58 pm

Boy, the must have really been miserable not being able to support even a single weekend frequency.

Runway28L · Fri May 25, 2018 10:10 pm

I remember reading some posts on here a few years ago that hyped up USA-Cuba opening up as the next big coming in the airline industry.

Man were those comments full of hot air looking back at it...

georgiaame · Fri May 25, 2018 10:11 pm

For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would want to visit a country whose citizens would willingly risk their lives and more over the lives of their children to escape from! Travel to that country is a disgrace and appalling! Thank God Delta lost money on the route and is calling it quits. And no, I am not Cuban.

spinkid · Fri May 25, 2018 10:24 pm

georgiaame wrote:
For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would want to visit a country whose citizens would willingly risk their lives and more over the lives of their children to escape from! Travel to that country is a disgrace and appalling! Thank God Delta lost money on the route and is calling it quits. And no, I am not Cuban.

If you were Cuban you would understand that people like to return home to visit their friends and relatives.

When travel restrictions were relaxed, many people thought the tourism industry would open up, but that has not been the case. You still can't just head over to Expedia and book a weekend getaway to Cuba, therefore the market has not materialized the way airlines thought.

axiom · Fri May 25, 2018 10:26 pm

Runway28L wrote:
I remember reading some posts on here a few years ago that hyped up USA-Cuba opening up as the next big coming in the airline industry.

Man were those comments full of hot air looking back at it...

What really gets me is that people continue to make these kind of comments year after year without any sort of understanding of the the market context, and the role of regulations in limiting the development of said market.

vhtje · Fri May 25, 2018 10:46 pm

georgiaame wrote:
For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would want to visit a country whose citizens would willingly risk their lives and more over the lives of their children to escape from! Travel to that country is a disgrace and appalling! Thank God Delta lost money on the route and is calling it quits. And no, I am not Cuban.

Having visited said county, I never witnessed anything of the kind. All I met were Cubans who were proud of their country and their heritage. Yes, they wanted some change from their Government, but it is a complete fallacy that Cubans hate their country and would do anything to "escape".

Tell me, when did you visit Cuba?

ripcordd · Fri May 25, 2018 10:55 pm

When all restrictions are lifted CUBA-USA will be a boom until then they will strugle

lightsaber · Fri May 25, 2018 11:25 pm

ripcordd wrote:
When all restrictions are lifted CUBA-USA will be a boom until then they will strugle

While true, it takes two to tango. The attack on the embassy was childish and set back relations a decade. There needs to be give and take, but by both sides. I think this will be solved about 5 years before Israel...

Lightsaber

mandyhaslott · Fri May 25, 2018 11:27 pm

georgiaame wrote:
For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would want to visit a country whose citizens would willingly risk their lives and more over the lives of their children to escape from! Travel to that country is a disgrace and appalling! Thank God Delta lost money on the route and is calling it quits. And no, I am not Cuban.

This is one of the most ridiculous and ignorant comments I've seen on this site. You clearly haven't actually visited Cuba so keep your poison to yourself.

Utah744 · Fri May 25, 2018 11:39 pm

I think Georgia was referring to this from Wiki "This resulted in an even larger exodus through the port of Mariel, where an improvised flotilla of Cuban exiles from Miami in small pleasure boats and commercial shrimping vessels brought Cuban citizens who wished to leave the island. Within weeks, 125,000 Cubans reached the United States despite Coast Guard attempts to prevent boats from leaving U.S. waters for Cuba."

MalevA346 · Fri May 25, 2018 11:40 pm

georgiaame wrote:
For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would want to visit a country whose citizens would willingly risk their lives and more over the lives of their children to escape from! Travel to that country is a disgrace and appalling! Thank God Delta lost money on the route and is calling it quits. And no, I am not Cuban.

Sure You don't have a clue how many countries like this exist on earth. In fact, they are usually more interesting to visit...

boxeebox · Fri May 25, 2018 11:42 pm

It's rather easy to visit to be honest. All you have to do, for jetBlue at least, is just go up to the dedicated desk in FLL and pay the Visa fee. Done. Enjoy your trip.

MalevA346 · Fri May 25, 2018 11:43 pm

boxeebox wrote:
It's rather easy to visit to be honest. All you have to do, for jetBlue at least, is just go up to the dedicated desk in FLL and pay the Visa fee. Done. Enjoy your trip.

I can only advise it. Beautiful place, beautiful people. I talked there with a young girl who had a friend in Miami whom she visited couple of times. She told me that she did not like it in Miami, as people did not have time there for anything. She was around 18 years old..

chrisp390 · Fri May 25, 2018 11:57 pm

Word on the street is the B6 BOS flight will be cut sooner or later.

NickolayAv · Fri May 25, 2018 11:59 pm

Really makes me wonder if B6s flight from BOS will survive.

Lootess · Sat May 26, 2018 12:04 am

boxeebox wrote:
It's rather easy to visit to be honest. All you have to do, for jetBlue at least, is just go up to the dedicated desk in FLL and pay the Visa fee. Done. Enjoy your trip.

It's required if you qualify as one of the permitted categories to travel to Cuba from the US like family, education, workshops, research, etc.

The real issue is you can't just go to Cuba on a US passport as a general tourist due to the OFAC restrictions. That is what is killing most of these Havana routes that don't originate from the south or near Miami.

ltbewr · Sat May 26, 2018 12:04 am

Sadly, the partial reversal of travel policy for Americans from those done by President Obama by President Trump to appease a few voters in Florida, the apparent unusual attacks on the US Embassy, limited modern tourism infrastructure, difficulties in using USA money and credit cards there, have hurt the hopes and airlines as to making money serving Cuba. I hope once after 2020 the USA will end its 60+ year embargo and a true Cuba Libra will emerge.

boxeebox · Sat May 26, 2018 12:11 am

Lootess wrote:
boxeebox wrote:
It's rather easy to visit to be honest. All you have to do, for jetBlue at least, is just go up to the dedicated desk in FLL and pay the Visa fee. Done. Enjoy your trip.

It's required if you qualify as one of the permitted categories to travel to Cuba from the US like family, education, workshops, research, etc.

The real issue is you can't just go to Cuba on a US passport as a general tourist due to the OFAC restrictions. That is what is killing most of these Havana routes that don't originate from the south or near Miami.

None of my handful of friends that have visited Cuba fall under the family, education, research, etc... you fill out the paperwork based with whatever you want. Fairly simple and not very strict.

enilria · Sat May 26, 2018 12:15 am

If this didn’t work, DL’s MIA won’t work. Sure it’s a bigger market, but DL is barely anything in MIA.

Antarius · Sat May 26, 2018 12:16 am

lightsaber wrote:
ripcordd wrote:
When all restrictions are lifted CUBA-USA will be a boom until then they will strugle

While true, it takes two to tango. The attack on the embassy was childish and set back relations a decade. There needs to be give and take, but by both sides. I think this will be solved about 5 years before Israel...

Lightsaber

Assuming that it was Cuba responsible. And given their leadership changes and relative thawing of relations, occams razor suggests they may not have done it. Additionally, there was a recent attack with similar symptoms in China which portends itself to being a rogue faction (or maybe a clandestine state operator) but Cuba is highly unlikely to be that faction/state.

Lootess · Sat May 26, 2018 12:16 am

Older Cuban migrants to Florida want to keep as much of the quasi-embargo as possible. It's a popular platform to run on to win the state, and a death sentence if you run solely against that. Which is also why Florida Senator Marco Rubio is also popular in the state, in Miami, and on both sides of the political fence.

The lack of certain modern infrastructures like with Visa/Mastercard also not being accepted is also a larger issue.

c933103 · Sat May 26, 2018 12:19 am

When YYZ-HAV service can be operated daily and JFK-HAV can't even sustain 1x weekly you know how different the market is for American

Antarius · Sat May 26, 2018 12:25 am

c933103 wrote:
When YYZ-HAV service can be operated daily and JFK-HAV can't even sustain 1x weekly you know how different the market is for American

No kidding.

Cuba is a PITA to visit due to restrictions as a US Citizen. You basically have to lie and fit into a category to even be able to go.

The lack of major hotels and credit card acceptance is a much smaller issue than the travel restrictions.

Yes, some of the Cuba routes were speculative. But the pullback is way larger than a standard market correction due to the inability for people to get there in an easy and legal way.

Trk1 · Sat May 26, 2018 12:30 am

The Cuban policy of the United States is the problem. We deal with China which has killed and imprisioned more than Cuba. If we flood the country with Americans that will do more to help relations and weaken the Cuban govt. then are current policy. How are travels going to use the flights if the restricts by Trump and his short sighed advisors continues.

tinpusher007 · Sat May 26, 2018 12:42 am

enilria wrote:
If this didn’t work, DL’s MIA won’t work. Sure it’s a bigger market, but DL is barely anything in MIA.

Not true. There is a MUCH stronger local market out of MIA to HAV. MIA is 2X daily in fact.

usxguy · Sat May 26, 2018 12:52 am

Americans are also smarter than most travelers... why would we welcome tourism to a country that still murders/jails/beats gays, forbids interracial sex, and jails journalist.

sounds like a wonderful utopia, we should disregard all of these and go!

Just try to bring cash - Visa/Master/Amex still don't completely work there for US citizens.

the airlines thought Cuba was going to be the next DR, and it didn't happen. Cuba doesn't quite have the infrastructure for the onslaught of tourists who would come.

questions · Sat May 26, 2018 1:01 am

Just checked DL MIA-HAV, outbound next Mon and return on Wed, A320, 1:11 flight time.

First Class... $3,300

Wow!

tphuang · Sat May 26, 2018 1:02 am

georgiaame wrote:
For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would want to visit a country whose citizens would willingly risk their lives and more over the lives of their children to escape from! Travel to that country is a disgrace and appalling! Thank God Delta lost money on the route and is calling it quits. And no, I am not Cuban.

I have definitely been to Cuba. It's no worse than many other third world countries. There are many people from Central America risking their lives to cross the Mexican border into America also. But I guess it's okay to go to those countries, but not Cuba.

enilria wrote:
If this didn’t work, DL’s MIA won’t work. Sure it’s a bigger market, but DL is barely anything in MIA.

Exactly, I find the part about the success of MIA/ATL to be quite amusing.

Antarius wrote:
c933103 wrote:
When YYZ-HAV service can be operated daily and JFK-HAV can't even sustain 1x weekly you know how different the market is for American

No kidding.

Cuba is a PITA to visit due to restrictions as a US Citizen. You basically have to lie and fit into a category to even be able to go.

The lack of major hotels and credit card acceptance is a much smaller issue than the travel restrictions.

Yes, some of the Cuba routes were speculative. But the pullback is way larger than a standard market correction due to the inability for people to get there in an easy and legal way.

I didn't have credit card when I went to Cuba either. Paid for travel package ahead of time and carried cash. I guess that's the problem. You can do all inclusive vacations to Cuba from NYC.

millionsofmiles · Sat May 26, 2018 1:24 am

georgiaame wrote:
For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would want to visit a country whose citizens would willingly risk their lives and more over the lives of their children to escape from! Travel to that country is a disgrace and appalling! Thank God Delta lost money on the route and is calling it quits. And no, I am not Cuban.

Ummm...yeah, right...as if Cuba were the only country in the world where oppression and civil rights abuses exist.

FA9295 · Sat May 26, 2018 1:30 am

georgiaame wrote:
For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would want to visit a country whose citizens would willingly risk their lives and more over the lives of their children to escape from! Travel to that country is a disgrace and appalling! Thank God Delta lost money on the route and is calling it quits. And no, I am not Cuban.

It's more about Cubans coming to the United States, then the other way around...

cledaybuck · Sat May 26, 2018 1:48 am

Awfully convenient of AA and DL to ask for changes AFTER they were awarded more frequencies.

MAH4546 · Sat May 26, 2018 1:57 am

enilria wrote:
If this didn’t work, DL’s MIA won’t work. Sure it’s a bigger market, but DL is barely anything in MIA.

If DL's MIAHAV isn't working, why is Delta adding a second daily MIAHAV this fall?

alfa164 · Sat May 26, 2018 2:00 am

usxguy wrote:
Americans are also smarter than most travelers... why would we welcome tourism to a country that still murders/jails/beats gays, forbids interracial sex, and jails journalist.

"Cubans are also smarter than most travelers... why would they want to be tourists in a country that still murders/beats gays, kills doctors who perform operations they don't like, has a president who wants to deny journalists their freedom of speech, and who calls for jailing his opponents."

There; I fixed it for you.

MaksFly · Sat May 26, 2018 2:12 am

The main issue is not that people don't want to visit Cuba.... the main issue is the US majors all flooded the market with seats.

Plenty of Europeans visit Cuba with zero issues.

slickvik · Sat May 26, 2018 2:13 am

Antarius wrote:
c933103 wrote:
When YYZ-HAV service can be operated daily and JFK-HAV can't even sustain 1x weekly you know how different the market is for American

No kidding.

Cuba is a PITA to visit due to restrictions as a US Citizen. You basically have to lie and fit into a category to even be able to go.

The lack of major hotels and credit card acceptance is a much smaller issue than the travel restrictions.

Yes, some of the Cuba routes were speculative. But the pullback is way larger than a standard market correction due to the inability for people to get there in an easy and legal way.

The popular category these days is “Support for the Cuban people.” I have to admit it’s quite clever and amusing at the same time.

flyingclrs727 · Sat May 26, 2018 2:17 am

georgiaame wrote:
For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would want to visit a country whose citizens would willingly risk their lives and more over the lives of their children to escape from! Travel to that country is a disgrace and appalling! Thank God Delta lost money on the route and is calling it quits. And no, I am not Cuban.

I've noticed even cruise ships traveling between the western Gulf of Mexico to the Caribbean and Atlantic aren't scheduling stops in Cuba along the way, while a year or two ago lots of cruises originating from or going to the US had stops in Cuba.

JRL3289 · Sat May 26, 2018 2:23 am

MAH4546 wrote:
enilria wrote:
If this didn’t work, DL’s MIA won’t work. Sure it’s a bigger market, but DL is barely anything in MIA.

If DL's MIAHAV isn't working, why is Delta adding a second daily MIAHAV this fall?

Perhaps they're already planning to cancel ATL-HAV? :stirthepot:

Lootess · Sat May 26, 2018 2:36 am

JRL3289 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
enilria wrote:
If this didn’t work, DL’s MIA won’t work. Sure it’s a bigger market, but DL is barely anything in MIA.

If DL's MIAHAV isn't working, why is Delta adding a second daily MIAHAV this fall?

Perhaps they're already planning to cancel ATL-HAV?

Wishful dreaming. DL got the 2nd MIA-HAV frequency when Frontier gave up their authority.

N212R · Sat May 26, 2018 2:47 am

Runway28L wrote:
I remember reading some posts on here a few years ago that hyped up USA-Cuba opening up as the next big coming in the airline industry.

Man were those comments full of hot air looking back at it...

I believe it was President Hope and Change who got that ball rolling. Another nail in the Obama foreign policy coffin.

FirstBizFlyer · Sat May 26, 2018 2:49 am

flyingclrs727 wrote:
georgiaame wrote:
For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would want to visit a country whose citizens would willingly risk their lives and more over the lives of their children to escape from! Travel to that country is a disgrace and appalling! Thank God Delta lost money on the route and is calling it quits. And no, I am not Cuban.

I've noticed even cruise ships traveling between the western Gulf of Mexico to the Caribbean and Atlantic aren't scheduling stops in Cuba along the way, while a year or two ago lots of cruises originating from or going to the US had stops in Cuba.

There are lots of ships visiting Cuba this year and next year. Norwegian, Carnival and Oceania all have many calls scheduled at Havana, Cienfuegos and Santiago de Cuba. We have the Xmas/NYE cruise booked on Oceania with NYE in Havana =0

JRL3289 · Sat May 26, 2018 2:50 am

Lootess wrote:
JRL3289 wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

If DL's MIAHAV isn't working, why is Delta adding a second daily MIAHAV this fall?

Perhaps they're already planning to cancel ATL-HAV?

Wishful dreaming. DL got the 2nd MIA-HAV frequency when Frontier gave up their authority.

Nothing wishful. The fact that DL received a second MIA-HAV authority says nothing about the viability of ATL-HAV.

The problem with ATL-HAV is that any cities with significant demand are already linked to various hubs in Florida, so why should DL fly a longer stage length to connect those customers (not to mention the massive disparity in demand between South Florida and other areas in the US)? Demand to Cuba is so concentrated that I'm doubtful even the massive network effect at ATL can carry a route like that. Time will tell.

douwd20 · Sat May 26, 2018 3:18 am

mandyhaslott wrote:
georgiaame wrote:
For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would want to visit a country whose citizens would willingly risk their lives and more over the lives of their children to escape from! Travel to that country is a disgrace and appalling! Thank God Delta lost money on the route and is calling it quits. And no, I am not Cuban.

This is one of the most ridiculous and ignorant comments I've seen on this site. You clearly haven't actually visited Cuba so keep your poison to yourself.

EXACTLY.

727200 · Sat May 26, 2018 3:19 am

MIA is a given for HAV with plenty of Cubans in the MIA area. But I would think that NYC would be the #2 market, but I guess it isn't so; or maybe its just a DL screw-up. UA flies out of EWR, it would be interesting to see how they are doing.

DL717 · Sat May 26, 2018 3:28 am

I make it a point not to visit countries where people risk their lives to get out. Tells you all you need to know about said “great country with prideful people”.

grbauc · Sat May 26, 2018 3:38 am

lightsaber wrote:
ripcordd wrote:
When all restrictions are lifted CUBA-USA will be a boom until then they will strugle

While true, it takes two to tango. The attack on the embassy was childish and set back relations a decade. There needs to be give and take, but by both sides. I think this will be solved about 5 years before Israel...

Lightsaber

100% agree. They were given a good chance and blew it.

TWA772LR · Sat May 26, 2018 3:38 am

usxguy wrote:
Americans are also smarter than most travelers... why would we welcome tourism to a country that still murders/jails/beats gays, forbids interracial sex, and jails journalist.

There's a few other counties that do that too than just Cuba.

ltbewr wrote:
limited modern tourism infrastructure,

First of all I say this as never having visited Cuba; I don't think their tourism infrastructure can be that limited considering it's pretty popular with Europeans and Canadians. But like I said, I don't have anything to base that off of and would love to be corrected. Just so I can get a better picture, how would the tourist infrastructure compare to that of Belize?

OB1504 · Sat May 26, 2018 3:49 am

MalevA346 wrote:
I talked there with a young girl who had a friend in Miami whom she visited couple of times. She told me that she did not like it in Miami, as people did not have time there for anything.

What does that even mean?

enilria wrote:
If this didn’t work, DL’s MIA won’t work. Sure it’s a bigger market, but DL is barely anything in MIA.

DL has been serving MIA longer than any other airline and the local market is large enough to support them. If a relatively unknown airline like Swift Air can support multiple charters to Cuba, DL should manage just fine.

usxguy wrote:
Americans are also smarter than most travelers... why would we welcome tourism to a country that still murders/jails/beats gays, forbids interracial sex, and jails journalist.

sounds like a wonderful utopia, we should disregard all of these and go!

Just try to bring cash - Visa/Master/Amex still don't completely work there for US citizens.

the airlines thought Cuba was going to be the next DR, and it didn't happen. Cuba doesn't quite have the infrastructure for the onslaught of tourists who would come.

Americans don't seem to mind visiting other countries with questionable human rights records. The difference is that the U.S. government doesn't make it as hard to visit those countries as they do Cuba. Cuba also seems to manage tourists from Europe and Canada just fine.

alfa164 wrote:
usxguy wrote:
Americans are also smarter than most travelers... why would we welcome tourism to a country that still murders/jails/beats gays, forbids interracial sex, and jails journalist.

"Cubans are also smarter than most travelers... why would they want to be tourists in a country that still murders/beats gays, kills doctors who perform operations they don't like, has a president who wants to deny journalists their freedom of speech, and who calls for jailing his opponents."

There; I fixed it for you.

You cannot possibly be serious. The difference is that in the United States, the government does not do those things to its people. People who commit violence against minorities are charged with hate crimes, people who murder doctors or blow up clinics go to jail, and the president can talk all he wants but has never actually jailed a journalist or political opponent and the people would revolt if he tried.

Brickell305 · Sat May 26, 2018 3:57 am

enilria wrote:
If this didn’t work, DL’s MIA won’t work. Sure it’s a bigger market, but DL is barely anything in MIA.

They can compete in Miami on fare. The route is heavily VFR, not business so FF loyalty isn't as big of a factor and as the market remains restricted, AA can't run them off the route so they'll likely stick around as long as they can fill the planes.

ctrabs0114 · Sat May 26, 2018 4:01 am

boxeebox wrote:
It's rather easy to visit to be honest. All you have to do, for jetBlue at least, is just go up to the dedicated desk in FLL and pay the Visa fee. Done. Enjoy your trip.

Except, the last time I checked, for American travelers, there are 12 specific categories under which a trip must fall under in order to receive a visa to travel to Cuba.

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net