ctrabs0114 wrote:

boxeebox wrote:

It's rather easy to visit to be honest. All you have to do, for jetBlue at least, is just go up to the dedicated desk in FLL and pay the Visa fee. Done. Enjoy your trip.

Except, the last time I checked, for American travelers, there are 12 specific categories under which a trip must fall under in order to receive a visa to travel to Cuba.

In theory, yes.

In practice, no. You literally shop up at the airport, select a category and pay your fee. There is no "background" check that you're being honest and the categories are so broadly defined, just about anybody fit into it.

enilria wrote:

If this didn’t work, DL’s MIA won’t work. Sure it’s a bigger market, but DL is barely anything in MIA.

12 flights a day to ATL
4 flights a day to JFK
6 flight a day to LGA
1 flight a day to LAX
2 flights to MSP
2 flights to DTW
1 flight to HAV
1 flight to MCO

You call that barely anything.
my numbers may be off by 1 or 2 but I wouldnt say thats barely anything.

addi375 wrote:

You call that barely anything.
my numbers may be off by 1 or 2 but I wouldnt say thats barely anything.

29 flights a day for one station on an airline the size of Delta means it's just big enough to justify having your own staff vs outsourcing. Needs to be at least 50 flights a day to qualify as a focus city, and probably at least another 100 to be a hub. Only half of those cities merit selling a connection due to lack of non-stop to Cuba from another airline. Would make a lot more sense for AA to have those slots, but our DOT has never been about making sense, right?

727200 wrote:

MIA is a given for HAV with plenty of Cubans in the MIA area. But I would think that NYC would be the #2 market, but I guess it isn't so; or maybe its just a DL screw-up. UA flies out of EWR, it would be interesting to see how they are doing.

I had a feeling that at most given the current conditions in Cuba, the NYC metro market could only support 1-2 daily flights or maybe only 4x/5x (does B6 still fly JFK-HAV?). It’s all about Florida, more or less, and will remain so as long as travel conditions in Cuba for Americans remain significantly less than optimal, making other travel/beach/cultural destinations far more palatable.

enilria wrote:

If this didn’t work, DL’s MIA won’t work. Sure it’s a bigger market, but DL is barely anything in MIA.

Spoken out of utter (and apparently, willful) ignorance.

It is not uncommon for the lowest available Y fare on their MIA-HAV to be in the $800-1000 range even two weeks out, for such a short flight; and they can fill it.

ltbewr wrote:

Sadly, the partial reversal of travel policy for Americans from those done by President Obama by President Trump to appease a few voters in Florida, the apparent unusual attacks on the US Embassy, limited modern tourism infrastructure, difficulties in using USA money and credit cards there, have hurt the hopes and airlines as to making money serving Cuba. I hope once after 2020 the USA will end its 60+ year embargo and a true Cuba Libra will emerge.

They have huge amount of tourist from Mexico, central & south America. So yes there is tourism infrastructure. It's Trumps reversal that has affected it the most.

727200 wrote:

MIA is a given for HAV with plenty of Cubans in the MIA area. But I would think that NYC would be the #2 market, but I guess it isn't so; or maybe its just a DL screw-up. UA flies out of EWR, it would be interesting to see how they are doing.

Isn't the largest cuban population in the NCY area in New Jersey?

LittleFokker wrote:

addi375 wrote:

You call that barely anything.
my numbers may be off by 1 or 2 but I wouldnt say thats barely anything.

29 flights a day for one station on an airline the size of Delta means it's just big enough to justify having your own staff vs outsourcing. Needs to be at least 50 flights a day to qualify as a focus city, and probably at least another 100 to be a hub. Only half of those cities merit selling a connection due to lack of non-stop to Cuba from another airline. Would make a lot more sense for AA to have those slots, but our DOT has never been about making sense, right?

How does it not make sense? The market is primarily O&D and as such doesn’t require a major connecting hub at either end. If AA had the route to itself, local fares would obviously be higher. Why not allow another airline to compete if the goal of the DOT is to benefit consumers? Especially when the other airline is more than willing to do so. DL voluntarily requested its MIA-HAV frequencies. It wasn’t forced or coerced to fly this route. Why not allow it to compete in the market?

ctrabs0114 wrote:

boxeebox wrote:

It's rather easy to visit to be honest. All you have to do, for jetBlue at least, is just go up to the dedicated desk in FLL and pay the Visa fee. Done. Enjoy your trip.

Except, the last time I checked, for American travelers, there are 12 specific categories under which a trip must fall under in order to receive a visa to travel to Cuba.

Just do what everyone does and just lie.

Tick a box and then go.

Nobody cares.

It is more difficult now because the people-to-people thing is tightened up. You have to go with an organized tour group. Blech. That also tends to make things very expensive. Add to that if you are going for a while you must bring all cash and even in the all-inclusives your US credit card won't work. The USA is a country of 300 million people, enough adventurous tourists would go there regardless of subpar tourist infrastructure - as a matter of fact, that could be a selling point. But having to lie to your own country's authorities to get there (admittedly, nobody checks, but still...) and having to pay for EVERYTHING in cold hard cash is a pain.

And for those excoriating this new travel to Cuba b/c dictatorship, I mean, really, Cuba ain't Sweden but it isn't North Korea. When I went a year ago I noticed no jack-booted thugs, no antipathy towards the US, just people in Havana going about their daily lives. As I said in another thread, Cuba is a relic, think Belarus with nice weather and palm trees and beautiful women, and nobody in the US is stopping anybody from going to Belarus.

usxguy wrote:
Americans are also smarter than most travelers... why would we welcome tourism to a country that still murders/jails/beats gays, forbids interracial sex, and jails journalist.

I honestly don't know what you are talking about.
murders/jails/beats gays? Maybe in the 70s (even then I doubt killing gays, but Fidel was a homophobe) but it has gotten much, much, better in Cuba, and compared to, say, Jamaica, I'd rather be gay in Cuba any day of the week.
Forbids interracial sex? Huh?. The Castro regime actually did an awful lot to overcome the racism and prejudice that was rampant in Cuban society under Batista, where blacks were second-class citizens because of, oh well American investors in the tourism industry. (IT *was* the 50s). Whatever you want to about the Castro regime, that is one area where you have no grounds to complain. Show me where you got this forbids interracial sex from. I am really intersted.

Sorry to turn to politics. I guess because of the world we live in, any airliner thread touches on politics. Suffice to say that if the US (you know, the land of the free) allowed its citizens to visit Cuba the way it allows its citizens to visit the Dominican Republic, those forays into Cuba would have been much more successful.

georgiaame wrote:

For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would want to visit a country whose citizens would willingly risk their lives and more over the lives of their children to escape from! Travel to that country is a disgrace and appalling! Thank God Delta lost money on the route and is calling it quits. And no, I am not Cuban.

The fact that there is robust tourism to Mexico makes your comment basically pointless.

I think the crux of the problem is the prices. Why in the world would I pay $1000 for a 1 hour flight to a country with very little tourist infrastructure when I can pay a fraction of that (even in first class) to fly to another Caribbean island with large tourist infrastructure?

Super80Fan wrote:

I think the crux of the problem is the prices. Why in the world would I pay $1000 for a 1 hour flight to a country with very little tourist infrastructure when I can pay a fraction of that (even in first class) to fly to another Caribbean island with large tourist infrastructure?

The whole point of going to Cuba is to see it as it exists now before it turns into another Jamaica or Aruba.

bagoldex wrote:

Super80Fan wrote:

I think the crux of the problem is the prices. Why in the world would I pay $1000 for a 1 hour flight to a country with very little tourist infrastructure when I can pay a fraction of that (even in first class) to fly to another Caribbean island with large tourist infrastructure?

The whole point of going to Cuba is to see it as it exists now before it turns into another Jamaica or Aruba.

And time is running out quick.

Varadero is already indistinguishable from any other Caribbean resorts, and Cayo Coco is heading that way. And why would you like to stay at an overpriced chain hotel when you have the lovely small houses? Big, corporate struggle for decent service but at the small family places they go above and beyond.

I've never been there on holiday, just for business and I will never stay again on a big hotel while there's still the small house system. Better and cheaper.

usxguy wrote:

Americans are also smarter than most travelers...

ROFL! You, Sir, owe me a new keyboard. 'Americans', 'smarter' and 'travel' - all in the same sentence!

Hate to say I told you so...

Actually, with some of the know it alls on a.net, I love to say it!

Told you so! Haha

AA has asked DOT for reallocation of the DL frequency to offer an additional Saturday only flight between MIA and HAV using 738 commencing December.

OST-2016-0021

Isn't this whole Cuba boycott a case of double standards? I mean, you are not allowed to visit Cuba but you are allowed to visit e.g. Venezuela?

WN is also asking DOT for the DL frequency allocation. WN proposes operating additional TPA-HAV Saturday service starting September 1st using 738.

OST-2016-0021

And today, JetBlue is asking for the frequency to operate an additional Saturday service between FLL and HAV effective November 10th using A320.

OST-2016-0021

Funny how everyone is clamoring for this single weekly frequency.

millionsofmiles wrote:

georgiaame wrote:

For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone would want to visit a country whose citizens would willingly risk their lives and more over the lives of their children to escape from! Travel to that country is a disgrace and appalling! Thank God Delta lost money on the route and is calling it quits. And no, I am not Cuban.

Ummm...yeah, right...as if Cuba were the only country in the world where oppression and civil rights abuses exist.

Diaz-Canel, as both Castros before him, is a better man than Trump ever could try to be. At least Communists try to act like they care about the common person.

LAX772LR wrote:

enilria wrote:

If this didn’t work, DL’s MIA won’t work. Sure it’s a bigger market, but DL is barely anything in MIA.

Spoken out of utter (and apparently, willful) ignorance.

It is not uncommon for the lowest available Y fare on their MIA-HAV to be in the $800-1000 range even two weeks out, for such a short flight; and they can fill it.

Ignorance? Delta is not selling high yield anything in MIA. I suggest you check the data. They are a bottom feeder in MIA. If you are spending bucks like that in MIA you are going to spend it on AA and get yourself to the next elite tier sooner. That's how the world really works.

enilria wrote:

Delta is not selling high yield anything in MIA. I suggest you check the data.

What "the data?"

They don't publicized route-specific financials, so post what data you're referring to.

LAX772LR wrote:

enilria wrote:

Delta is not selling high yield anything in MIA. I suggest you check the data.

What "the data?"

They don't publicized route-specific financials, so post what data you're referring to.

Huh? Of course they do. DB1B with fare is available by origin point and shows all legs by airline. Then there's MIDT as well.

enilria wrote:

LAX772LR wrote:

enilria wrote:

Delta is not selling high yield anything in MIA. I suggest you check the data.

What "the data?"

They don't publicized route-specific financials, so post what data you're referring to.

Huh? Of course they do. DB1B with fare is available by origin point and shows all legs by airline. Then there's MIDT as well.

For a single point international market?

Well... then post it.

bagoldex wrote:

The whole point of going to Cuba is to see it as it exists now before it turns into another Jamaica or Aruba.

This is definitely a US-centric viewpoint. Cuba has scores of chain resorts. If you are looking for a place that hasn't yet been impacted by mass tourism, you are much too late.

DOT today tentatively awarded Southwest the vacated DL frequency for additional Saturday only frequency between TPA-HAV.
SWA has 90-days to start service from December 1st.

Order 2018-9-10