I'd been contemplating posting this for quite some time and just never got around to it - however I was inspired by Birdwatching's request for some non-political topics.
This is regarding the place described here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjzKBd ... d3HAHACylA

and here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDBcdMbUNZw

The "official" site is under maintenance now so I couldn't post a link directly to it. If you Google "James Gilliand" there are lots of other links as well.
Anyhow, about 10 years ago I had the opportunity to visit there as part of a small group as a result of an invitation extended to a good friend of mine whose dad had been a big whig at NASA during the Apollo program. Lots of astronauts and other NASA and Air Force types have visited the ranch out of curiosity (names of some were posted on the official site but as noted it is not up at the moment).
During my visit I did see some pretty strange things, none so dramatic as those posted in the You Tube videos, but stuff I couldn't explain. I do not for a moment think what I saw were spacecraft piloted by little green men from the planet Zarkon 3, but I have no logical explanation for the phenomena, so wondering what some of you may think. Here's a brief description of what I encountered and what I don't think they were (aside from aliens)
Saw quite a number of moving lights very high in the sky, going at about the speed a satellite would appear to be (have seen plenty of those in my years of star gazing). These were most definitely not satellites as there were too many over a short period of time and much more importantly, they would alter their course dramatically - doing right angle turns and looping around and heading back from the direction they came. They would also occasionally merge and then split apart and sometimes stand still for a few seconds before moving on again. They definitely were not commercial aircraft either because besides the reasons above there was absolutely no sound. We were out in the middle of nowhere, dozens of miles from the nearest town and there was not a breath of wind so a jet or prop plane, even at a high cruising altitude would have been heard. All these lights were white, no other colors, no blinking etc. I don't believe they were military aircraft either and over the years the Air Force has said on numerous occasions they don't train in that area (one other reason Air Force folks have visited the site - they know it not their stuff up there). And while I did not personally witness it, a few members of our group saw one of them briefly increase in many magnitudes of brightness. I had a chance to have a brief conversation with Mr. Gilliand and he seemed by all accounts to be a rational, sane individual. I didn't get the impression he was con artist. We were not charged any admission, he didn't ask for donations etc so he isn't doing this for money (at least not ours on that night).
So what is going on out there and why there, in the middle of Southwest Washington? Some of his adherents claim that Mt. Adams is a magnet for E.T.s I am certainly at a loss for explaining what I saw but again, I have a very hard time believing it's visitors from across the galaxy

Thoughts anyone?

ER757 wrote:

I'd been contemplating posting this for quite some time and just never got around to it - however I was inspired by Birdwatching's request for some non-political topics.
This is regarding the place described here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjzKBd ... d3HAHACylA

and here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDBcdMbUNZw

The "official" site is under maintenance now so I couldn't post a link directly to it. If you Google "James Gilliand" there are lots of other links as well.
Anyhow, about 10 years ago I had the opportunity to visit there as part of a small group as a result of an invitation extended to a good friend of mine whose dad had been a big whig at NASA during the Apollo program. Lots of astronauts and other NASA and Air Force types have visited the ranch out of curiosity (names of some were posted on the official site but as noted it is not up at the moment).
During my visit I did see some pretty strange things, none so dramatic as those posted in the You Tube videos, but stuff I couldn't explain. I do not for a moment think what I saw were spacecraft piloted by little green men from the planet Zarkon 3, but I have no logical explanation for the phenomena, so wondering what some of you may think. Here's a brief description of what I encountered and what I don't think they were (aside from aliens)
Saw quite a number of moving lights very high in the sky, going at about the speed a satellite would appear to be (have seen plenty of those in my years of star gazing). These were most definitely not satellites as there were too many over a short period of time and much more importantly, they would alter their course dramatically - doing right angle turns and looping around and heading back from the direction they came. They would also occasionally merge and then split apart and sometimes stand still for a few seconds before moving on again. They definitely were not commercial aircraft either because besides the reasons above there was absolutely no sound. We were out in the middle of nowhere, dozens of miles from the nearest town and there was not a breath of wind so a jet or prop plane, even at a high cruising altitude would have been heard. All these lights were white, no other colors, no blinking etc. I don't believe they were military aircraft either and over the years the Air Force has said on numerous occasions they don't train in that area (one other reason Air Force folks have visited the site - they know it not their stuff up there). And while I did not personally witness it, a few members of our group saw one of them briefly increase in many magnitudes of brightness. I had a chance to have a brief conversation with Mr. Gilliand and he seemed by all accounts to be a rational, sane individual. I didn't get the impression he was con artist. We were not charged any admission, he didn't ask for donations etc so he isn't doing this for money (at least not ours on that night).
So what is going on out there and why there, in the middle of Southwest Washington? Some of his adherents claim that Mt. Adams is a magnet for E.T.s I am certainly at a loss for explaining what I saw but again, I have a very hard time believing it's visitors from across the galaxy

Thoughts anyone?

He's a right-wing conspiracy theorist who probably has mental health issues.

I looked at the YouTube page you posted and there are conspiracy videos related to Hillary and how she and democrats are in control of the world. He's a nut job.

ANY youtube page that features an "anonymous" style video with narration by a computer strikes me as weird.

I grew up in the Pacific Northwest. There is some strange energy around the mountains. Shasta, McLaughlin, Crater Lake, Thielsen, Three Sisters, Bachelor, Jefferson, Hood, Adams, Rainier, St Helens... They all have a strange vibe to them. There are roads in the forest that only a few people know about. Roads and trails and buildings. People will be walking along side dark roads there in the middle of the night, miles from anywhere and nothing is open at that time.

There was even an event that was discussed on Craigslist in 2003 over Portland. Many people, including me, saw lights in the sky come up from the south. Nothing unusual. Oregon National Guard has a detachment at PDX and there are always flights from MFR, OAK, SFO, LAX, and so forth. These two lights, however, came very fast. One stopped over the south flank of Mt Hood. The other overshot the first, stopped, and backed up. They sat over the south flank of Mt Hood for a few minutes and left. Up.

There are still creatures at the bottom of the ocean we have not discovered. It makes sense that, in the infinity of space, there are creatures there we have not discovered. Maybe some of them have discovered us. Why not?

seb146 wrote:

It makes sense that, in the infinity of space, there are creatures there we have not discovered. Maybe some of them have discovered us. Why not?

Because of the severe technological and biological implausibilities of living things surviving interstellar journeys.

seb146 wrote:

I grew up in the Pacific Northwest. There is some strange energy around the mountains. Shasta, McLaughlin, Crater Lake, Thielsen, Three Sisters, Bachelor, Jefferson, Hood, Adams, Rainier, St Helens... They all have a strange vibe to them. There are roads in the forest that only a few people know about. Roads and trails and buildings. People will be walking along side dark roads there in the middle of the night, miles from anywhere and nothing is open at that time.

There was even an event that was discussed on Craigslist in 2003 over Portland. Many people, including me, saw lights in the sky come up from the south. Nothing unusual. Oregon National Guard has a detachment at PDX and there are always flights from MFR, OAK, SFO, LAX, and so forth. These two lights, however, came very fast. One stopped over the south flank of Mt Hood. The other overshot the first, stopped, and backed up. They sat over the south flank of Mt Hood for a few minutes and left. Up.

There are still creatures at the bottom of the ocean we have not discovered. It makes sense that, in the infinity of space, there are creatures there we have not discovered. Maybe some of them have discovered us. Why not?

Interesting. I love the pacific NW, wish I lived there so I’ve been there quite a few times. The road around St. Helens really does have a strange vibe to it. I drove quite high to where rain transitioned to snow and steam was coming up from the cracks in the road.

I love this type of stuff.

Airstud wrote:

seb146 wrote:

It makes sense that, in the infinity of space, there are creatures there we have not discovered. Maybe some of them have discovered us. Why not?

Because of the severe technological and biological implausibilities of living things surviving interstellar journeys.

Ok, but no one said anything about AI. They’d be able to make the distance. In any case, he was talking about the possibilities of life in the universe.

Airstud wrote:

seb146 wrote:

It makes sense that, in the infinity of space, there are creatures there we have not discovered. Maybe some of them have discovered us. Why not?

Because of the severe technological and biological implausibilities of living things surviving interstellar journeys.

How old is the universe? How do we know that other life has not mastered that technology? Maybe some aluminum based life forms can make the journey? Why can't there be aluminum or ammonia based life forms? Why can't there be life forms 100,000 years ahead of us in technology?

seb146 wrote:

Airstud wrote:

seb146 wrote:

It makes sense that, in the infinity of space, there are creatures there we have not discovered. Maybe some of them have discovered us. Why not?

Because of the severe technological and biological implausibilities of living things surviving interstellar journeys.

How old is the universe? How do we know that other life has not mastered that technology? Maybe some aluminum based life forms can make the journey? Why can't there be aluminum or ammonia based life forms? Why can't there be life forms 100,000 years ahead of us in technology?

Because we.

Have.

COBOL.


#gameover

CitizenJustin wrote:

seb146 wrote:

I grew up in the Pacific Northwest. There is some strange energy around the mountains. Shasta, McLaughlin, Crater Lake, Thielsen, Three Sisters, Bachelor, Jefferson, Hood, Adams, Rainier, St Helens... They all have a strange vibe to them. There are roads in the forest that only a few people know about. Roads and trails and buildings. People will be walking along side dark roads there in the middle of the night, miles from anywhere and nothing is open at that time.

There was even an event that was discussed on Craigslist in 2003 over Portland. Many people, including me, saw lights in the sky come up from the south. Nothing unusual. Oregon National Guard has a detachment at PDX and there are always flights from MFR, OAK, SFO, LAX, and so forth. These two lights, however, came very fast. One stopped over the south flank of Mt Hood. The other overshot the first, stopped, and backed up. They sat over the south flank of Mt Hood for a few minutes and left. Up.

There are still creatures at the bottom of the ocean we have not discovered. It makes sense that, in the infinity of space, there are creatures there we have not discovered. Maybe some of them have discovered us. Why not?

Interesting. I love the pacific NW, wish I lived there so I’ve been there quite a few times. The road around St. Helens really does have a strange vibe to it. I drove quite high to where rain transitioned to snow and steam was coming up from the cracks in the road.

I love this type of stuff.

Many of the peaks are active volcanoes. They are not the Hawaii type, but they still vent. Every year, hikers to Rainier and Hood report smelling sulfur at the summits and report seeing steam all around the peaks.

Airstud wrote:

seb146 wrote:

It makes sense that, in the infinity of space, there are creatures there we have not discovered. Maybe some of them have discovered us. Why not?

Because of the severe technological and biological implausibilities of living things surviving interstellar journeys.

That is breathtaking arrogance.

To suggest that a problem or problems cannot be solved just because we haven't solved them yet.....

Same goes for the carbon-centric pontifications of scientists and their other proclamation that life without water is impossible. It only shows up how closed-minded they are.

The Universe is infinite. That means an infinity of possibilities and an infinity of knowledge already out there, and it doesn't have to belong to us squidgy meatbags.

seb146 wrote:

CitizenJustin wrote:

seb146 wrote:

I grew up in the Pacific Northwest. There is some strange energy around the mountains. Shasta, McLaughlin, Crater Lake, Thielsen, Three Sisters, Bachelor, Jefferson, Hood, Adams, Rainier, St Helens... They all have a strange vibe to them. There are roads in the forest that only a few people know about. Roads and trails and buildings. People will be walking along side dark roads there in the middle of the night, miles from anywhere and nothing is open at that time.

There was even an event that was discussed on Craigslist in 2003 over Portland. Many people, including me, saw lights in the sky come up from the south. Nothing unusual. Oregon National Guard has a detachment at PDX and there are always flights from MFR, OAK, SFO, LAX, and so forth. These two lights, however, came very fast. One stopped over the south flank of Mt Hood. The other overshot the first, stopped, and backed up. They sat over the south flank of Mt Hood for a few minutes and left. Up.

There are still creatures at the bottom of the ocean we have not discovered. It makes sense that, in the infinity of space, there are creatures there we have not discovered. Maybe some of them have discovered us. Why not?

Interesting. I love the pacific NW, wish I lived there so I’ve been there quite a few times. The road around St. Helens really does have a strange vibe to it. I drove quite high to where rain transitioned to snow and steam was coming up from the cracks in the road.

I love this type of stuff.

Many of the peaks are active volcanoes. They are not the Hawaii type, but they still vent. Every year, hikers to Rainier and Hood report smelling sulfur at the summits and report seeing steam all around the peaks.

Yes, it’s quite the experience, although I was more terrified by the several moose blocking the very small gap between me and the cliff.

Channex757 wrote:

Airstud wrote:

seb146 wrote:

It makes sense that, in the infinity of space, there are creatures there we have not discovered. Maybe some of them have discovered us. Why not?

Because of the severe technological and biological implausibilities of living things surviving interstellar journeys.

That is breathtaking arrogance.

To suggest that a problem or problems cannot be solved just because we haven't solved them yet.....

Same goes for the carbon-centric pontifications of scientists and their other proclamation that life without water is impossible. It only shows up how closed-minded they are.

The Universe is infinite. That means an infinity of possibilities and an infinity of knowledge already out there, and it doesn't have to belong to us squidgy meatbags.

I completely agree. I can’t stand when people proclaim life impossible if it doesn’t abide by earthly rules. Also, we just started flying a mere 100 years ago, so no one has any business claiming certain advanced tech can’t be achieved.

Channex757 wrote:

Airstud wrote:

seb146 wrote:

It makes sense that, in the infinity of space, there are creatures there we have not discovered. Maybe some of them have discovered us. Why not?

Because of the severe technological and biological implausibilities of living things surviving interstellar journeys.

That is breathtaking arrogance.

To suggest that a problem or problems cannot be solved just because we haven't solved them yet.....

Same goes for the carbon-centric pontifications of scientists and their other proclamation that life without water is impossible. It only shows up how closed-minded they are.

The Universe is infinite. That means an infinity of possibilities and an infinity of knowledge already out there, and it doesn't have to belong to us squidgy meatbags.

I agree with you, but as to E.T.'s visiting Earth, my struggle with that belief is that in the vastness of the universe, we are pretty much invisible, how would we even be detected by a civilization from hundreds or thousands of light years away when we've only been sending radio signals outwards for about 100 years? And how detectable would those signals even be after traveling many trillions of miles? And if they did detect us and they were going to pay us a visit, why are nearly all these sightings in remote areas? Why aren't they landing in Central Park on the 4th of July?
I am pretty certain there is life elsewhere, probably intelligent, advanced life, but them coming here? Not so much
I can't explain what I saw out at the ranch that night, but as I mentioned in my origin post, I don't buy the notion it was interstellar travelers

seb146 wrote:

CitizenJustin wrote:

seb146 wrote:

I grew up in the Pacific Northwest. There is some strange energy around the mountains. Shasta, McLaughlin, Crater Lake, Thielsen, Three Sisters, Bachelor, Jefferson, Hood, Adams, Rainier, St Helens... They all have a strange vibe to them. There are roads in the forest that only a few people know about. Roads and trails and buildings. People will be walking along side dark roads there in the middle of the night, miles from anywhere and nothing is open at that time.

There was even an event that was discussed on Craigslist in 2003 over Portland. Many people, including me, saw lights in the sky come up from the south. Nothing unusual. Oregon National Guard has a detachment at PDX and there are always flights from MFR, OAK, SFO, LAX, and so forth. These two lights, however, came very fast. One stopped over the south flank of Mt Hood. The other overshot the first, stopped, and backed up. They sat over the south flank of Mt Hood for a few minutes and left. Up.

There are still creatures at the bottom of the ocean we have not discovered. It makes sense that, in the infinity of space, there are creatures there we have not discovered. Maybe some of them have discovered us. Why not?

Interesting. I love the pacific NW, wish I lived there so I’ve been there quite a few times. The road around St. Helens really does have a strange vibe to it. I drove quite high to where rain transitioned to snow and steam was coming up from the cracks in the road.

I love this type of stuff.

Many of the peaks are active volcanoes. They are not the Hawaii type, but they still vent. Every year, hikers to Rainier and Hood report smelling sulfur at the summits and report seeing steam all around the peaks.

For quite some time, sulphur was mined on Mt. Adams.

ER757 wrote:

I agree with you, but as to E.T.'s visiting Earth, my struggle with that belief is that in the vastness of the universe, we are pretty much invisible, how would we even be detected by a civilization from hundreds or thousands of light years away when we've only been sending radio signals outwards for about 100 years? And how detectable would those signals even be after traveling many trillions of miles? And if they did detect us and they were going to pay us a visit, why are nearly all these sightings in remote areas? Why aren't they landing in Central Park on the 4th of July?
I am pretty certain there is life elsewhere, probably intelligent, advanced life, but them coming here? Not so much
I can't explain what I saw out at the ranch that night, but as I mentioned in my origin post, I don't buy the notion it was interstellar travelers

Maybe, just maybe, they have got (or rather had) the same ideas we have?

We aren't looking for definitive proof of life with our new spaceborne telescopes. Instead NASA, ESA and the rest are looking for the chemical signatures of life on exoplanets.

Our little rock of squidgy meatbags (and some that weren't as squidgy but a big rock sorted them out) has been spewing out the chemical traces of life in its light for a very long time. Worth a visit from a curious but advanced species looking for just that....?

Channex757 wrote:

ER757 wrote:

I agree with you, but as to E.T.'s visiting Earth, my struggle with that belief is that in the vastness of the universe, we are pretty much invisible, how would we even be detected by a civilization from hundreds or thousands of light years away when we've only been sending radio signals outwards for about 100 years? And how detectable would those signals even be after traveling many trillions of miles? And if they did detect us and they were going to pay us a visit, why are nearly all these sightings in remote areas? Why aren't they landing in Central Park on the 4th of July?
I am pretty certain there is life elsewhere, probably intelligent, advanced life, but them coming here? Not so much
I can't explain what I saw out at the ranch that night, but as I mentioned in my origin post, I don't buy the notion it was interstellar travelers

Maybe, just maybe, they have got (or rather had) the same ideas we have?

We aren't looking for definitive proof of life with our new spaceborne telescopes. Instead NASA, ESA and the rest are looking for the chemical signatures of life on exoplanets.

Our little rock of squidgy meatbags (and some that weren't as squidgy but a big rock sorted them out) has been spewing out the chemical traces of life in its light for a very long time. Worth a visit from a curious but advanced species looking for just that....?

Hadn't thought of that - very good point. If/when we find evidence of life elsewhere, it would in all likelihood be via that method. I'm glad you brought that up, sometimes my old man brain doesn't realize all the possibilities

This does bring the question that if these aliens are not carbon and water based, would they be looking for those traces? Again maybe at least some of the Galactic life pool would be from the same pathway as us. It would also explain that tendency towards arms and legs and not hellish tentacles

ER757 wrote:

Channex757 wrote:

ER757 wrote:

I agree with you, but as to E.T.'s visiting Earth, my struggle with that belief is that in the vastness of the universe, we are pretty much invisible, how would we even be detected by a civilization from hundreds or thousands of light years away when we've only been sending radio signals outwards for about 100 years? And how detectable would those signals even be after traveling many trillions of miles? And if they did detect us and they were going to pay us a visit, why are nearly all these sightings in remote areas? Why aren't they landing in Central Park on the 4th of July?
I am pretty certain there is life elsewhere, probably intelligent, advanced life, but them coming here? Not so much
I can't explain what I saw out at the ranch that night, but as I mentioned in my origin post, I don't buy the notion it was interstellar travelers

Maybe, just maybe, they have got (or rather had) the same ideas we have?

We aren't looking for definitive proof of life with our new spaceborne telescopes. Instead NASA, ESA and the rest are looking for the chemical signatures of life on exoplanets.

Our little rock of squidgy meatbags (and some that weren't as squidgy but a big rock sorted them out) has been spewing out the chemical traces of life in its light for a very long time. Worth a visit from a curious but advanced species looking for just that....?

Hadn't thought of that - very good point. If/when we find evidence of life elsewhere, it would in all likelihood be via that method. I'm glad you brought that up, sometimes my old man brain doesn't realize all the possibilities

My take on things, that somewhere at one point in time:
- chances of life outside our solar system: 99,999999999%, the universe is just too damn vast;
- chances that intelligent has developed: 98,999999999%, the universe is just too damn vast and too old, the earth is relatively new to the party;
- chances that intelligent life has developed technology that is detectable: 95%
- chances that intelligent life has developed technology that could take them of their planet: 90%
- chances that they survived the period they developed methods to blow themselves up <-- menkind is in the middle of this: 60%
- chances that they have developed methods to travel faster than light: 10%
- chances they have colonized their galaxy: 1%

Now the chances that they have done all that and went to earth to pay us a visit and do so repeatedly without landing and doing anything. Hardly likely.

Channex757 wrote:

This does bring the question that if these aliens are not carbon and water based, would they be looking for those traces? Again maybe at least some of the Galactic life pool would be from the same pathway as us. It would also explain that tendency towards arms and legs and not hellish tentacles

Maybe it has to do with basalt and sulfur? Maybe that is what they are looking for? Maybe there is a planet orbiting Alpha Centauri teeming with life. But, since we are looking for carbon based life and not life in general, we are missing it.

seb146 wrote:

Channex757 wrote:

This does bring the question that if these aliens are not carbon and water based, would they be looking for those traces? Again maybe at least some of the Galactic life pool would be from the same pathway as us. It would also explain that tendency towards arms and legs and not hellish tentacles

Maybe it has to do with basalt and sulfur? Maybe that is what they are looking for? Maybe there is a planet orbiting Alpha Centauri teeming with life. But, since we are looking for carbon based life and not life in general, we are missing it.

That's exactly what I was suggesting. To be honest, we aren't going to discover that sort of non-carbon life until we get there and visit. Unless it visits us.

If life elsewhere has risen as a result of carbon chemistry and therefore looks for the telltales using its telescopes like we are (but did it millions of years in our past) then those millions of years could easily have provided plenty of time to discover and develop working faster than light travel.

seb146 wrote:

Channex757 wrote:

This does bring the question that if these aliens are not carbon and water based, would they be looking for those traces? Again maybe at least some of the Galactic life pool would be from the same pathway as us. It would also explain that tendency towards arms and legs and not hellish tentacles

Maybe it has to do with basalt and sulfur? Maybe that is what they are looking for? Maybe there is a planet orbiting Alpha Centauri teeming with life. But, since we are looking for carbon based life and not life in general, we are missing it.

In a topic several years ago about the possibility of alien life DocLightning had a very detailed and convincing post as to why life elsewhere would also be carbon based and rely on liquid water. Wish I could remember the name of the topic and I'd look for it in the archives. Doc, if you are reading this thread, maybe you could repeat that because it was quite good.

Seb - to your point about the Cascade volcanoes having a certain vibe - I've spent the past 30 years hiking and backpacking in the Cascade range and a good number of those trips have taken me near or on most of them. While each time I go I stand in awe of their beauty and the tectonic forces that created them, I never felt any special energy, aura, essence etc. The native peoples have many legends regarding them of course and many were fearful of them and would not approach them too closely. I suppose if aliens were to come here, they may to drawn to them however as they stand head and shoulders above the surrounding terrain. Unlike the tallest peaks in the Rockies, Alps, Himalaya etc, the Cascade volcanoes are several thousand feet taller than anything near them and hence may appear to be sentinels or waypoints for travelers.

Here's another thought

We (humans) go looking for life in the deep ocean, around volcanic vents. That's where the energy and mineral flows come from down there. Might a visiting alien race have developed similar ideas that volcanoes are the place to search for life?

Not every race in this galaxy of ours might be as bat shit crazy as to heat or propel itself about using dinosaur juice drilled from the ground. Using natural energy sources might be more common. Certainly for less advanced types of life then the visitors would possibly think that tectonically active areas with volcano-like features would be a place to start