You cannot deny that America would be infinitely better off if Hillary won

B0pp0 · Fri May 11, 2018 1:34 am

Things would be stable, our international repuation would be secure, we would be on good terms with Iran and Cuba, LGBTQ rights would be safe, and the US perhaps would be starting to catch up to Canada and Europe. Hillary wasn't the best candidate but she is what America needed to survive.

I can't see any situation where things would be worse if Hillary won. At least she wouldn't drag us into a unnecessary war and cause suffering at home. Hopefully when this regime is toppled she can save us.

LittleSprocket · Fri May 11, 2018 1:43 am

Well...that's like your opinion man. I'm glad that that corrupt individual lost the election. Here's the thing, you say that we cant deny that the country wouldn't be worse off...take off the goggles and realize that those of us that voted for Trumo did so because the Democrats put up Hillary as their candidate. Instead of backing the Clinton dynasty, let's get some fresh blood in there so that we arent forced to choose between two bad choices.

#TooDrunkForThis

Airstud · Fri May 11, 2018 1:49 am

B0pp0 wrote:
we would be on good terms with Iran and Cuba

The measure of a fine nation indeed... :sarcastic:

Freakysh · Fri May 11, 2018 2:08 am

And I think it's safe to say that America would have been top of the Winter Olympic gold medal tally this yet had Hilary won

Mir · Fri May 11, 2018 4:32 am

Airstud wrote:
B0pp0 wrote:
we would be on good terms with Iran and Cuba

The measure of a fine nation indeed...

But good terms with North Korea, an even more brutal dictatorship than either Iran or Cuba and one that does actually have nuclear weapons, is a great foreign policy win, right?

Airstud · Fri May 11, 2018 4:47 am

Mir wrote:
Airstud wrote:
B0pp0 wrote:
we would be on good terms with Iran and Cuba

The measure of a fine nation indeed...

But good terms with North Korea, an even more brutal dictatorship than either Iran or Cuba and one that does actually have nuclear weapons, is a great foreign policy win, right?

Notice that I didn't say a blamed thing about North Korea, or about the Trump Administration.

I am not a Trump supporter. I did not vote for him.

Dutchy · Fri May 11, 2018 4:50 am

It is a mood question, she didn't win, so now the world and America has to deal with Trump.

Airstud · Fri May 11, 2018 4:51 am

Dutchy wrote:
It is a mood question, she didn't win, so now the world and America has to deal with Trump.

Gross.

Jetsgo · Fri May 11, 2018 5:04 am

Curious how those who refer to Trump as orange would react towards those who refer to Obama as black... in the same negative fashion of course. Asking for a friend.

BlueberryWheats · Fri May 11, 2018 5:12 am

Jetsgo wrote:
Curious how those who refer to Trump as orange would react towards those who refer to Obama as black... in the same negative fashion of course. Asking for a friend.

Probably point out one has a natural skin colour as a result of ethnicity/genetics etc, and the other has a bizarre tangerine tinge through choice.

tommy1808 · Fri May 11, 2018 7:24 am

B0pp0 wrote:
I can't see any situation where things would be worse if Hillary won.

While i think anyone would have been a better president than Trump, even the Rock, even a Rock, but it is easy to see how the situation would be worse:

- Trump and his fans would be screaming voter fraud, and there is a pretty good chance that a bunch of them would become terrorists in the process... overthrow the tyrant and stuff.
- Republicans would win the midterms in a landslide and impeach her anyways
- she´d be so busy testifying in all sorts of probes and court cases that she doesn´t get to govern.
- the "you can promote republican law drafts and ideas, we still block you where ever we can" would have continued in years 9 through 12.

best regards
Thomas

einsteinboricua · Fri May 11, 2018 11:05 am

LittleSprocket wrote:
I'm glad that that corrupt individual lost the election.

I didn't know Trump was the savior of DC. I guess Scott Pruitt's and Ben Carson's expenses are just rewards for a job well done? And the pay-for-play scheme confirmed by companies with Michael Cohen is just a prize? But sure, Clinton was more corrupt than Trump and his ilk.

LittleSprocket wrote:
Here's the thing, you say that we cant deny that the country wouldn't be worse off...

I can tell you right now, it ain't much better either. The economy is still just as it was a few years ago, except now there's someone new at the helm who suddenly wants to take credit for stuff he derided while campaigning. The tax cuts' benefits still haven't materialized other than a one-time bonus at the beginning of the year. If you're a shareholder, however, you're celebrating it.

LittleSprocket wrote:
take off the goggles and realize that those of us that voted for Trumo did so because the Democrats put up Hillary as their candidate.

So you only confirmed that people vote against their interests and values...in other words, cut your nose to spite your face.

LittleSprocket wrote:
Instead of backing the Clinton dynasty, let's get some fresh blood in there so that we arent forced to choose between two bad choices.

You HAD the option...they're called primaries. The people of both parties spoke. There were other candidates as well. And a spoiled ballot is also a vote.

ltbewr · Fri May 11, 2018 11:41 am

I think either Trump will be or Hillery Clinton would be a 1-term President, with a person of the other party winning in 2020.
HRC would have to still likely faced a Republican dominated House and Senate, blocking her agenda in many areas and here appointments, especially top Cabinet and Judicial positions.
No doubt HRC would face rounds after rounds of being investigated by most House/Senate Committees.
As to war/military operations, I doubt there would be much difference. As a woman President, she would have been under pressure to 'act like a man' in Syria and Afghanistan. She would still be a 'Friend of AIPAC' and that Israel can do anything they want.
Immigration issues would still not be dealt with in ways we really need with far too many 'illegals' protected.
Bill Clinton, for his bad sexual behaviors would still be a problem for HRC as President, especially with the exposure of sexual abuses we have seen in the last year.
In terms of diplomacy, she would have been far better as deferentially more experienced as a former Sec. of State.
She wouldn't have appointed such open crooks and right wing extremist in cabinet and judicial positions as Trump has.
She would done a tax cut bill less favorable to the rich and corporations, more favorable to the middle and working classes.
She would NOT be using a personal Twitter account, for sure she would be only using official communications and servers.
Sports teams, individuals being honored would have far less reservations for political reasons meeting with HRC than Trump.
HRC didn't have hotels and properties with her name on them as well as the conflicts of interests from them.
For sure she would have been far more compassionate for victims of mass shootings and less to the Gun Lobby.
I feel that in balance that HRC would be a far better person in office than Trump will ever be.

dtw2hyd · Fri May 11, 2018 12:42 pm

Had HRC won in 2016, America would have missed one time much needed reset. Trump may not complete his term, but the fake facade of politics is gone. Most politicians are out. Most Media/Hollywood personalities are out. Trump drained the swamp, unknowingly. If you want to get rid of someone, make him a cabinet member or TV anchor.

Going forward, who even wins the presidency, the other party will stop cabinet position confirmations and try their best to impeach.

Arion640 · Fri May 11, 2018 5:07 pm

Really hope Trump gets the noble peace prize. Would be great to see.

Arion640 · Fri May 11, 2018 5:09 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Had HRC won in 2016, America would have missed one time much needed reset. Trump may not complete his term, but the fake facade of politics is gone. Most politicians are out. Most Media/Hollywood personalities are out. Trump drained the swamp, unknowingly. If you want to get rid of someone, make him a cabinet member or TV anchor.

Going forward, who even wins the presidency, the other party will stop cabinet position confirmations and try their best to impeach.

The UK needs to drain the swap next. Sadly the current Government is not much cop and the alternative even worse. Sometimes I wish the Uk was on the US system with an electable prime minister and the ability to throw out the upper house!

seb146 · Fri May 11, 2018 5:15 pm

The good:

The United States would still be in the Paris Climate Accords
The United States would still be in the Iran deal
The United States would not have bombed Syria
Americans would still have health care
The two Koreas would still be talking
No angry 3AM tweets calling other world leaders names

The bad:
No judged would be seated
Endless Congressional investigations into private servers and Benghazi. Two things that Republican Congresses have already investigaed and filed final reports on and she admitted to and apologized for.
Supremacists and neo Nazis would be turning out in even greater numbers
Guns would be used even more because "our Second Amendment rights are under attack!"
More attacks on LGBTQ community

RichyJ · Fri May 11, 2018 5:31 pm

The swamp is filled and higher than ever, so much corruption and unnecessary self inflicted nonsense surrounding this administration.

dtw2hyd · Fri May 11, 2018 7:02 pm

RichyJ wrote:
The swamp is filled and higher than ever, so much corruption and unnecessary self inflicted nonsense surrounding this administration.

Care to explain. Long time swamp dwellers self-deported out of DC because they couldn't work for Trump. Lot of Republican Congressmen and Senators retired from politics. #MeToo was born for Trump, but wiped out entire generation of media/Hollywood legends.

Unknowingly he drained the swamp.

seb146 · Fri May 11, 2018 7:26 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
RichyJ wrote:
The swamp is filled and higher than ever, so much corruption and unnecessary self inflicted nonsense surrounding this administration.

Care to explain. Long time swamp dwellers self-deported out of DC because they couldn't work for Trump. Lot of Republican Congressmen and Senators retired from politics. #MeToo was born for Trump, but wiped out entire generation of media/Hollywood legends.

Unknowingly he drained the swamp.

TRump's three oldest kids and their spouses all hold positions of power. The cabinet positions are being changed when anyone says anything bad about tRump.

Could it be that people "self deported from DC" because they refuse to work for this clustersnog of clowns? Could it be that members of the House and Senate decided to retire because they can find better private sector jobs or want to run for president?

no. All the glory and praise must be heaped on the orange menace. Glory and power to him. He is the only savior of this country. Blessed be to orange man.

CCGPV · Fri May 11, 2018 7:38 pm

How can we derail this thread and get it locked like the other one?

So many topics and tangents and false facts to spread I don't even know where to start.

We must make those we disagree with angry and frustrated. We need to drive people away from participating in these forums because of those things!

DDR · Fri May 11, 2018 8:51 pm

tommy1808 wrote:

While i think anyone would have been a better president than Trump, even the Rock, even a Rock,

best regards
Thomas

Ha Ha. I don't always agree with you, but that was priceless!

seb146 · Fri May 11, 2018 8:52 pm

CCGPV wrote:
How can we derail this thread and get it locked like the other one?

So many topics and tangents and false facts to spread I don't even know where to start.

We must make those we disagree with angry and frustrated. We need to drive people away from participating in these forums because of those things!

Calm down, guys. This thread is purely a hypothetical. The OP asking "what if" and certain trolls responding "everything is great again!" right on cue. Ignoring the fact that this thread is based in fantasy. You guys need to go find a disc golf course and I need to do laundry and take a nap before work. :bouncy:

DDR · Fri May 11, 2018 8:56 pm

seb146 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
RichyJ wrote:
The swamp is filled and higher than ever, so much corruption and unnecessary self inflicted nonsense surrounding this administration.

Care to explain. Long time swamp dwellers self-deported out of DC because they couldn't work for Trump. Lot of Republican Congressmen and Senators retired from politics. #MeToo was born for Trump, but wiped out entire generation of media/Hollywood legends.

Unknowingly he drained the swamp.

TRump's three oldest kids and their spouses all hold positions of power. The cabinet positions are being changed when anyone says anything bad about tRump.

Could it be that people "self deported from DC" because they refuse to work for this clustersnog of clowns? Could it be that members of the House and Senate decided to retire because they can find better private sector jobs or want to run for president?

no. All the glory and praise must be heaped on the orange menace. Glory and power to him. He is the only savior of this country. Blessed be to orange man.

In fairness, I think Ivanka is actually pretty sensible and I do have respect for her. Her brothers on the other hand...

seb146 · Fri May 11, 2018 8:58 pm

DDR wrote:
seb146 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

Care to explain. Long time swamp dwellers self-deported out of DC because they couldn't work for Trump. Lot of Republican Congressmen and Senators retired from politics. #MeToo was born for Trump, but wiped out entire generation of media/Hollywood legends.

Unknowingly he drained the swamp.

TRump's three oldest kids and their spouses all hold positions of power. The cabinet positions are being changed when anyone says anything bad about tRump.

Could it be that people "self deported from DC" because they refuse to work for this clustersnog of clowns? Could it be that members of the House and Senate decided to retire because they can find better private sector jobs or want to run for president?

no. All the glory and praise must be heaped on the orange menace. Glory and power to him. He is the only savior of this country. Blessed be to orange man.

In fairness, I think Ivanka is actually pretty sensible and I do have respect for her. Her brothers on the other hand...

She was able to get a very high security clearance for no apparent reason and make business deals that favor her company, so, I guess she is pretty smart?

DDR · Fri May 11, 2018 9:05 pm

seb146 wrote:
DDR wrote:
seb146 wrote:

TRump's three oldest kids and their spouses all hold positions of power. The cabinet positions are being changed when anyone says anything bad about tRump.

Could it be that people "self deported from DC" because they refuse to work for this clustersnog of clowns? Could it be that members of the House and Senate decided to retire because they can find better private sector jobs or want to run for president?

no. All the glory and praise must be heaped on the orange menace. Glory and power to him. He is the only savior of this country. Blessed be to orange man.

In fairness, I think Ivanka is actually pretty sensible and I do have respect for her. Her brothers on the other hand...

She was able to get a very high security clearance for no apparent reason and make business deals that favor her company, so, I guess she is pretty smart?

Absolutely she is "pretty smart." Look at her past business accomplishments. She has more money and power than you or I so she is doing something right. And don't say it's all due to her daddy. You can't prove that. She may have been just as successful even if she wasn't born a Trump. I think the fact that she is so successful after having a bat shit crazy father also makes her even more remarkable.

ER757 · Fri May 11, 2018 9:32 pm

DDR wrote:
seb146 wrote:
DDR wrote:

In fairness, I think Ivanka is actually pretty sensible and I do have respect for her. Her brothers on the other hand...

She was able to get a very high security clearance for no apparent reason and make business deals that favor her company, so, I guess she is pretty smart?

Absolutely she is "pretty smart." Look at her past business accomplishments. She has more money and power than you or I so she is doing something right. And don't say it's all due to her daddy. You can't prove that. She may have been just as successful even if she wasn't born a Trump. I think the fact that she is so successful after having a bat shit crazy father also makes her even more remarkable.

Being pretty smart and being a successful businesswoman does not make her qualified for a position in the White House staff, especially one in which she's in conferences with foreign leaders and has a high security clearance. I was hoping she'd be a voice of reason to her father but it's obvious she has zero influence on reigning in his craziness.

As to the OP's theory - I dunno that we'd be "infinitely better" or not. I know Being would have been happy to still have the IR order for all those shiny new planes. I'd be happy about still being in the Paris Accord. But I think she may have gotten us into a war by now - I always saw her as hawkish. I also think she'd have done the big banks lots of favors as well and not sure where the economy would be. I couldn't stand either her or Trump which is why my vote in 2016 was literally "none of the above"

B0pp0 · Fri May 11, 2018 9:43 pm

seb146 wrote:
The good:

The United States would still be in the Paris Climate Accords
The United States would still be in the Iran deal
The United States would not have bombed Syria
Americans would still have health care
The two Koreas would still be talking
No angry 3AM tweets calling other world leaders names

The bad:
No judged would be seated
Endless Congressional investigations into private servers and Benghazi. Two things that Republican Congresses have already investigaed and filed final reports on and she admitted to and apologized for.
Supremacists and neo Nazis would be turning out in even greater numbers
Guns would be used even more because "our Second Amendment rights are under attack!"
More attacks on LGBTQ community

So things would be worse for the LGBTQ community with the ally in office versus the blowhard who picked an open homophobe to be his running? How?

DDR · Fri May 11, 2018 9:46 pm

ER757 wrote:
DDR wrote:
seb146 wrote:

She was able to get a very high security clearance for no apparent reason and make business deals that favor her company, so, I guess she is pretty smart?

Absolutely she is "pretty smart." Look at her past business accomplishments. She has more money and power than you or I so she is doing something right. And don't say it's all due to her daddy. You can't prove that. She may have been just as successful even if she wasn't born a Trump. I think the fact that she is so successful after having a bat shit crazy father also makes her even more remarkable.

Being pretty smart and being a successful businesswoman does not make her qualified for a position in the White House staff, especially one in which she's in conferences with foreign leaders and has a high security clearance. I was hoping she'd be a voice of reason to her father but it's obvious she has zero influence on reigning in his craziness.

As to the OP's theory - I dunno that we'd be "infinitely better" or not. I know Being would have been happy to still have the IR order for all those shiny new planes. I'd be happy about still being in the Paris Accord. But I think she may have gotten us into a war by now - I always saw her as hawkish. I also think she'd have done the big banks lots of favors as well and not sure where the economy would be. I couldn't stand either her or Trump which is why my vote in 2016 was literally "none of the above"

The 2016 election was a no-win scenario. Neither candidate would have made a great leader. I do think you are right about her getting us into a war though. At least Trump hasn't done that yet.

DIRECTFLT · Fri May 11, 2018 9:50 pm

B0pp0 wrote:
Things would be stable, our international repuation would be secure, we would be on good terms with Iran and Cuba, LGBTQ rights would be safe, and the US perhaps would be starting to catch up to Canada and Europe. Hillary wasn't the best candidate but she is what America needed to survive.

I can't see any situation where things would be worse if Hillary won. At least she wouldn't drag us into a unnecessary war and cause suffering at home. Hopefully when this regime is toppled she can save us.

WoW !!

Do you live in that special area that SNL displayed, where everyone lives in a bubble, as if Hillary had won ???

The Trump Derangement Syndrome is strong in this one !!! :roll:

devron · Fri May 11, 2018 10:06 pm

Can we agree trump is bad and hilary would have been bad.

Seriously rock and a hard place comes to my mind.

dtw2hyd · Fri May 11, 2018 10:15 pm

White House would be a tough place for female interns under POTUS HRC.

stratosphere · Fri May 11, 2018 11:34 pm

DDR wrote:
seb146 wrote:
DDR wrote:

In fairness, I think Ivanka is actually pretty sensible and I do have respect for her. Her brothers on the other hand...

She was able to get a very high security clearance for no apparent reason and make business deals that favor her company, so, I guess she is pretty smart?

Absolutely she is "pretty smart." Look at her past business accomplishments. She has more money and power than you or I so she is doing something right. And don't say it's all due to her daddy. You can't prove that. She may have been just as successful even if she wasn't born a Trump. I think the fact that she is so successful after having a bat shit crazy father also makes her even more remarkable.

I am sure she is smart but being born into a family with money and influence and can send you to the best schools has it's advantages that is how Trump himself got to be so successful. I also share your view of at least one brother Don Jr. I despise him. I hope he gets stomped by an elephant on his next trophy hunt. As for Hillary I do not want any more dynasties no Bushs no Clintons.

DiamondFlyer · Fri May 11, 2018 11:48 pm

Boy the snowflakes around the world are still melting, over a year into one of the greatest things to happen lately. Hilarious to see all you losers complaining like babies, go find your cry closet now.

stratosphere · Fri May 11, 2018 11:56 pm

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Boy the snowflakes around the world are still melting, over a year into one of the greatest things to happen lately. Hilarious to see all you losers complaining like babies, go find your cry closet now.

That's at least one good thing I got out of voting for Trump lol

jpetekyxmd80 · Sat May 12, 2018 12:00 am

stratosphere wrote:
That's at least one good thing I got out of voting for Trump lol

You are nothing but a coward. You start your own nonsensical threads and run away.

CCGPV · Sat May 12, 2018 1:00 am

B0pp0 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
The good:

The United States would still be in the Paris Climate Accords
The United States would still be in the Iran deal
The United States would not have bombed Syria
Americans would still have health care
The two Koreas would still be talking
No angry 3AM tweets calling other world leaders names

The bad:
No judged would be seated
Endless Congressional investigations into private servers and Benghazi. Two things that Republican Congresses have already investigaed and filed final reports on and she admitted to and apologized for.
Supremacists and neo Nazis would be turning out in even greater numbers
Guns would be used even more because "our Second Amendment rights are under attack!"
More attacks on LGBTQ community

So things would be worse for the LGBTQ community with the ally in office versus the blowhard who picked an open homophobe to be his running? How?

You never said what you wanted to do to Trump if you could.

ER757 · Sat May 12, 2018 1:33 am

devron wrote:
Can we agree trump is bad and hilary would have been bad.

Seriously rock and a hard place comes to my mind.

Reminds me of a bumper sticker I saw during the campaign - it said "Giant asteroid 2016 - just end it already"

seb146 · Sat May 12, 2018 5:27 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
Boy the snowflakes around the world are still melting, over a year into one of the greatest things to happen lately. Hilarious to see all you losers complaining like babies, go find your cry closet now.

Let's go down the list of "great" things:

No climate agreement
No peace deal with Iran
No reasonably priced health care
No reasonably priced education
No good paying jobs
Mexico has not paid for the wall
She is still free
Neo Nazis are fine people
Lying
Cheating on his third wife

Airstud · Sat May 12, 2018 8:06 am

ltbewr wrote:
for sure she would be only using official communications and servers.

N867DA · Sat May 12, 2018 2:56 pm

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps

Parties wax and wane. Many Republicans were incredibly butthurt in 2008 when even Indiana and North Carolina went Democratic. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. I dislike most of Trump's ideology and think it's damaging America. I wish the Republican party would grow up and our politics drift back toward where most other first world countries have gone, but I much prefer a few years of Trump than defacto single party rule from Democrats.

DfwRevolution · Sat May 12, 2018 4:12 pm

B0pp0 wrote:
Things would be stable, our international repuation would be secure, we would be on good terms with Iran and Cuba, LGBTQ rights would be safe, and the US perhaps would be starting to catch up to Canada and Europe. Hillary wasn't the best candidate but she is what America needed to survive.

I can't see any situation where things would be worse if Hillary won. At least she wouldn't drag us into a unnecessary war and cause suffering at home. Hopefully when this regime is toppled she can save us.

Your premise is that your values and perspectives are shared by all Americans. They aren't. For example:

1. I do not want good terms with the Iran and Cuba. I want to confront them because they are evil authoritarian thugs.
2. I see no threats to imminent threat to LGBTQ rights.
3. I do not want to be Europe or Canada. I want the United States to be a distinct and singular country. I want to do things differently.

The Trump administration is sloppy and uncouth. I have often wished Donald Trump was not President but I have never once wished Hillary Clinton was President. However distasteful the Trump administration conducts itself, it has notched important wins that Clinton would have actively opposed. This administration is like chemotherapy. You want to vomit but it needs to happen.

ER757 · Sat May 12, 2018 4:17 pm

DfwRevolution wrote:
B0pp0 wrote:
Things would be stable, our international repuation would be secure, we would be on good terms with Iran and Cuba, LGBTQ rights would be safe, and the US perhaps would be starting to catch up to Canada and Europe. Hillary wasn't the best candidate but she is what America needed to survive.

I can't see any situation where things would be worse if Hillary won. At least she wouldn't drag us into a unnecessary war and cause suffering at home. Hopefully when this regime is toppled she can save us.

Your premise is that your values and perspectives are shared by all Americans. They aren't. For example:

1. I do not want good terms with the Iran and Cuba. I want to confront them because they are evil authoritarian thugs.
2. I see no threats to imminent threat to LGBTQ rights.
3. I do not want to be Europe or Canada. I want the United States to be a distinct and singular country. I want to do things differently.

The Trump administration is sloppy and uncouth. I have often wished Donald Trump was not President but I have never once wished Hillary Clinton was President. However distasteful the Trump administration conducts itself, it has notched important wins that Clinton would have actively opposed. This administration is like chemotherapy. You want to vomit but it needs to happen.

Your assessment sounds very much like what a friend of mine said before the election. His comment was "there's 100 people I'd rather see be president than Donald Trump. There's 101 people I'd rather see be president than Hillary Clinton." I am sure that sentiment was popular on both sides.

Jouhou · Sat May 12, 2018 4:24 pm

I'd be happy if Rubio won. I hate the Republican platform but at least the Hillary conspiracy theories would have stopped when she lost the election.

He also probably wouldn't be allowing Puerto Rico to rot and fester right now.

We'd be seeing 1/10th of the corruption and scandals in dc.

And the trump supporters would just be an Alex Jones watching circle jerk minority.

texdravid · Sat May 12, 2018 5:29 pm

DfwRevolution wrote:
B0pp0 wrote:
Things would be stable, our international repuation would be secure, we would be on good terms with Iran and Cuba, LGBTQ rights would be safe, and the US perhaps would be starting to catch up to Canada and Europe. Hillary wasn't the best candidate but she is what America needed to survive.

I can't see any situation where things would be worse if Hillary won. At least she wouldn't drag us into a unnecessary war and cause suffering at home. Hopefully when this regime is toppled she can save us.

Your premise is that your values and perspectives are shared by all Americans. They aren't. For example:

1. I do not want good terms with the Iran and Cuba. I want to confront them because they are evil authoritarian thugs.
2. I see no threats to imminent threat to LGBTQ rights.
3. I do not want to be Europe or Canada. I want the United States to be a distinct and singular country. I want to do things differently.

The Trump administration is sloppy and uncouth. I have often wished Donald Trump was not President but I have never once wished Hillary Clinton was President. However distasteful the Trump administration conducts itself, it has notched important wins that Clinton would have actively opposed. This administration is like chemotherapy. You want to vomit but it needs to happen.

Perfectly said. Exactly where I am at.
Thanks for your comment.

aviationaware · Sat May 12, 2018 5:36 pm

B0pp0 wrote:
.

I can't see any situation where things would be worse if Hillary won.

Let’s see:
- Therewould be no tax cuts. Millions of Americans would not have received bonusses and raises.
- Instead of conservatives who defend the constitution, thousands of liberal judges would have been appointed and working overtime to eviscerate the constitution.
- The White House would be working hard to abolish the Second Amendment.
- There would not be any pressure put on China on trade, and hence, China would not be putting any pressure on North Korea to denuclearize and make peace.
- The three hostages would not be free today.
- The terrorist Mullahs would be getting away with financing terrorism.
- Jerusalem would not have been recognized as the eternal capital of Israel and the embassy would not be moved there.
- Instead of the phony Russia collusion story, the media would be reporting on impeachment proceedings against Clinton for Pay 2 Play corruption and her email disaster.
- Instead of massive cutbacks on regulation, there would be more regulation than ever.
- More job-eliminating trade deals would have been cut with other nations.
- ISIS would be alive and well.
- The economic revocery would have continued, but at a slower pace and with fewer new jobs.
- The Obamacare mandate would still be up.
- The US would be paying countries like China massive amounts of money under the uneffective Paris Agreement.

And much more.

All in all, there can be no doubt that Trump is the most effective and one of the best first term Presidents in history. Now imagine what he could have done without a Democratic majority in the Senate.

einsteinboricua · Sat May 12, 2018 8:52 pm

Oh this is gonna be fun:

aviationaware wrote:
Let’s see:
- Therewould be no tax cuts. Millions of Americans would not have received bonusses and raises.

With no tax cuts, no added debt to the government. Remember the outcry for years on debt? Also, besides that one time bonus, has the average American been feeling the benefits? Survey says...

aviationaware wrote:
- Instead of conservatives who defend the constitution, thousands of liberal judges would have been appointed and working overtime to eviscerate the constitution.

Yes, because thousands of judges have been appointed lately and Republicans, had they held the Senate, would have been more than happy to let Clinton appoint judges.

aviationaware wrote:
- The White House would be working hard to abolish the Second Amendment.

You need to go back to civics. An amendment can only be abolished by another amendment, for which only Congress or a constitutional assembly of states can initiate a procedure. The White House has no power over the amendments.

aviationaware wrote:
- There would not be any pressure put on China on trade, and hence, China would not be putting any pressure on North Korea to denuclearize and make peace.

1. I thought it was Trump who pressured North Korea...oh well. Guess it's Xi Jinping who'll get the Nobel.
2. Didn't Trump say he'd label China as a currency manipulator on his first day? Hint...it's been well over 477 days and China is still there without a label.

aviationaware wrote:
- The three hostages would not be free today.

And they are...?

aviationaware wrote:
- The terrorist Mullahs would be getting away with financing terrorism.

You mean the fundamentalist governments of the Middle East, like Saudi Arabia and Qatar?

aviationaware wrote:
- Jerusalem would not have been recognized as the eternal capital of Israel and the embassy would not be moved there.

I thought we shouldn't interfere in the internal affairs of other countries...besides, what's it to you which city is recognized as a capital? Unless you're a Zionist and make exiled yourself from Israel until the US recognized Jerusalem as its capital, why should you care, other than spending money on another embassy?

If anything, it only serves to show that the US doesn't follow international law.

aviationaware wrote:
- Instead of the phony Russia collusion story, the media would be reporting on impeachment proceedings against Clinton for Pay 2 Play corruption and her email disaster.

For which there have been countless investigations which have resulted in jack squat...besides, looks like your savior was the pot calling the kettle black.

aviationaware wrote:
- Instead of massive cutbacks on regulation, there would be more regulation than ever.

Remember Don Blankenship? The Trumpier than Trump candidate of West Virginia who served prison? I wonder what his crime was and what the families affected think of him...

aviationaware wrote:
- More job-eliminating trade deals would have been cut with other nations.

NAFTA is still active and looks like Trump may have had second thoughts on the TPP.

aviationaware wrote:
- ISIS would be alive and well.

ISIS was on the verge of defeat by the 2016 election. Don't know why you'd think ISIS would have proliferated, especially when Clinton was seen as a war hawk and Trump insisted on no more wars. Actually...what WAS Trump's strategy to defeat ISIS aside from continued missile strikes? You know...the same ones people use to justify that Obama didn't deserve the Nobel back in 2009?

aviationaware wrote:
- The economic revocery would have continued, but at a slower pace and with fewer new jobs.

I thought we were a wreck...unemployment at 42% and the worst economy ever. But fast forward to Jan 20, 2017 and somehow the trend that was present since 2010 got shrunk into a smaller timeframe so Trump could claim credit for it...

Hint: job growth was gonna slow regardless. Since before the election, economists have said the economy was at or near full employment so lower job growth numbers were going to be the norm.

aviationaware wrote:
- The Obamacare mandate would still be up.

It's still in effect. And its overall effect is increased healthcare costs for the next enrollment period.

aviationaware wrote:
- The US would be paying countries like China massive amounts of money under the uneffective Paris Agreement.

And which the US is still party to, since the earliest time the US can send notification to withdraw is November 2019, with effective date of November 2020.

aviationaware wrote:
And much more.

Like...?

aviationaware wrote:
Now imagine what he could have done without a Democratic majority in the Senate.

Isn't that the current set up in the Senate? Last I checked, there were 51 GOP Senators and 51 senators is a majority in the Senate...they're not Democrats. Someone is drinking too much Kool Aid.

aviationaware · Sat May 12, 2018 10:01 pm

einsteinboricua wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
Now imagine what he could have done without a Democratic majority in the Senate.
Isn't that the current set up in the Senate? Last I checked, there were 51 GOP Senators and 51 senators is a majority in the Senate...they're not Democrats. Someone is drinking too much Kool Aid.

Won't bother to respond to all the other crap you wrote, but if you really think there is a GOP majority in the Senate, then you are probably smoking something. John McCain and Jeff Flake aren't really Republicans, they just pretend they are when there is an election. Thank god there will be a solid real republican majority in the Senate after the midterms.

LittleFokker · Sat May 12, 2018 10:05 pm

aviationaware wrote:
einsteinboricua wrote:
aviationaware wrote:
Now imagine what he could have done without a Democratic majority in the Senate.
Isn't that the current set up in the Senate? Last I checked, there were 51 GOP Senators and 51 senators is a majority in the Senate...they're not Democrats. Someone is drinking too much Kool Aid.

Won't bother to respond to all the other crap you wrote, but if you really think there is a GOP majority in the Senate, then you are probably smoking something. John McCain and Jeff Flake aren't really Republicans, they just pretend they are when there is an election. Thank god there will be a solid real republican majority in the Senate after the midterms.

And Heidi Heitkamp, Joe Manchin, and Claire McKaskill betray Democrats regularly. What's your point?

Also, despite Flake and McCain talking a good game, they vote like cheap partisan hacks, so the evil side wins regardless.

jpetekyxmd80 · Sat May 12, 2018 10:22 pm

Jeff Flake being called not really a republican is among the most stupid things i have ever seen. What the hell is wrong with these people? I don't agree much with Flake because is quite conservative policy wise and ideologically overall, but I can at least respect the man for having a strong conscience and moral fiber.

People like aviationaware are an absolute disgrace to this country and to humanity even. If its not overt offenses on everyones intelligence, its simply lying through their teeth and make shit up, and do their best to emulate their hero's knack for aggressive incompetence. Pathetic people.

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