salttee
Posts: 2342
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Israel and Iran trade fire

Sun May 13, 2018 11:13 am

Jouhou wrote:
Israel does their thing. I don't agree with their "thing" but, eh, it seems to work to make the country a bastion of stability in a region that can be described as a mess of instability.

Israel is the destabilizing force that has the region in turmoil.

It was the Israeli faction that led the US to create the turmoil that exists today - the Iraq war.
 
GDB
Posts: 12997
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Israel and Iran trade fire

Sun May 13, 2018 11:34 am

salttee wrote:
johns624 wrote:
It's their own little version of lebensraum, except that they let others do most of their fighting for them.
They used to suck the British into fighting their battles for them back in the 20th century. But right now the only chump they can find is the United states.

The Britts are sorry for their mistakes back then and in the future so will we be sorry for supporting what is just one more European colonist in the ME.


By 1946 they were blowing them (and many non combatants) up, most notoriously in the King David Hotel bombing.
Having the millstone of the 'Palestine Mandate' was not a burden post WW2 Britain wanted, made worse by untrammeled immigration into Palestine after WW2.
While the government accepted that after the Holocaust numbers would increase, they wanted it managed, to avoid setting off a powder keg with the Arabs.

The Foreign Secretary, Ernie Bevin, had some strong arguments with his US counterpart on this, he felt that domestic US political considerations were making the situation worse, with the encouragement of mass Jewish immigration to Palestine.
Yet it was British forces trying to hold the line between Arab and Jew.
The Jewish Terrorist Groups like the Irgun and Stern Gang liked to refer to those troops, essentially peacekeepers, as the 'Nazi British Army'.
Ironic as many of those troops had actually fought the Nazi's unlike those trying to kill them, who had been largely sunning themselves on a Kibbutz for the duration of WW2.

By 1948 the UK had given up on trying to hold the line there, handing it over to the UN.
You have to wonder what would have happened and how attitudes would be different today, had say US troops replaced British ones in Palestine (then would have come under the same attacks from the likes of the Stern Gang, as they would have done, as any 3rd party would be in the way of those groups aims).
 
salttee
Posts: 2342
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Israel and Iran trade fire

Sun May 13, 2018 12:32 pm

The British got sucked into it in WW1. They made alliances with both sides, the Arabs and the Zionists. The British foreign secretary Arthur Balfour made a deal with the Zionist representative Chaim Weizmann who had developed a process to make artificial acetone which was necessary for the manufacture of gunpowder: "His Majesty's government looks with favor upon the establishment in Palestine of a national homeland for the Jewish people..................." Balfour said that acetone converted him to Zionism.

Meanwhile the British army was making promises to the Arabs for their support in fighting the Turks.
 
johns624
Posts: 1677
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Israel and Iran trade fire

Sun May 13, 2018 12:50 pm

GDB wrote:
You have to wonder what would have happened and how attitudes would be different today, had say US troops replaced British ones in Palestine (then would have come under the same attacks from the likes of the Stern Gang, as they would have done, as any 3rd party would be in the way of those groups aims).
We had our own "incident" in 1967 when they attacked the USS Liberty, but it didn't seem to make any difference in Washington, so the right people must've been getting paid.
 
GDB
Posts: 12997
Joined: Wed May 23, 2001 6:25 pm

Re: Israel and Iran trade fire

Sun May 13, 2018 4:18 pm

johns624 wrote:
GDB wrote:
You have to wonder what would have happened and how attitudes would be different today, had say US troops replaced British ones in Palestine (then would have come under the same attacks from the likes of the Stern Gang, as they would have done, as any 3rd party would be in the way of those groups aims).
We had our own "incident" in 1967 when they attacked the USS Liberty, but it didn't seem to make any difference in Washington, so the right people must've been getting paid.


Yes, that 'accidental' attack on a ship bedecked with US flags, comprising of several attack runs by IAF aircraft and fast attack craft.
One theory is that this signal intelligence ship picked up info on a massacre of POW's by a unit commanded by one Ariel Sharon. Funny how his name and massacres kept coming up, as Defence Minister in 1982 when IAF forces 'looked the other way' while their proxies in Lebanon massacred civilians in refugee camps.

Then the Lavi fighter, developed in the 1980's with much US support (and $), ultimately abandoned for more F-16's with additional Israeli avionics. So how did an aircraft looking exactly like the Lavi end up a few years later in China? That must have busted a whole load of US technology restrictions to China.

By the late 1970's the regime in South Africa had a total UN ban on arms sales slapped on them.
But then they started fielding rifles that were identical to an Israeli developed rifle, combat aircraft that looked a lot like the Israeli development of the Mirage 5, fast attack boats identical to.... you get the picture.
Guess who were the prime suspects in helping that regime (comprised of South Africans many of whom had been pro Nazi), get an atomic weapon, the test of which was picked up in the South Atlantic by a US spy sat in 1979.

When we talk about rogue states........
 
johns624
Posts: 1677
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Israel and Iran trade fire

Sun May 13, 2018 5:00 pm

But all they have to do is utter "the Holocaust--never again" and they get a pass for whatever they do from some people. I remember back during Desert Storm, our US Senator Carl Levin was very much against it. Then Israel had a few rockets sent its way and he turned into the biggest hawk there was. Even though the mentally ill, Romani, and Slavic people in general, were major parts of the Holocaust, they are never mentioned because the term has been co-opted by one group.
 
alfa164
Posts: 2037
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Israel and Iran trade fire

Tue May 15, 2018 6:19 pm

Jouhou wrote:
Israel does their thing. I don't agree with their "thing" but, eh, it seems to work to make the country a bastion of stability in a region that can be described as a mess of instability. Israel, you do you. Iran, you can do more productive things if you want to project power in the region. It's not like Iran doesn't have the human capital to become an economic powerhouse in the region. They just need to break out of old habits.


I am not sure I would call them a "bastion of stability" when they have subjugated more than a million-and-a-half Arabs inside fortified compounds, built their own settlements on Arab lands, and enforce the apartheid of those non-jews by the use of lethal force.

dmg626 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
dmg626 wrote:
So Iran has missiles in Syria, fires them at Israeli targets and Israel is itching for a fight? That’s rich

Except Israel fired first and Iran retaliated, nice try though.

And rightly so, Israel needs to remove the Iranian scum and its supporters from Syria


And what about the Israeli scum? They just get elected to office... :roll:
 
Jouhou
Posts: 640
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 4:16 am

Re: Israel and Iran trade fire

Wed May 16, 2018 7:48 am

alfa164 wrote:
Jouhou wrote:
Israel does their thing. I don't agree with their "thing" but, eh, it seems to work to make the country a bastion of stability in a region that can be described as a mess of instability. Israel, you do you. Iran, you can do more productive things if you want to project power in the region. It's not like Iran doesn't have the human capital to become an economic powerhouse in the region. They just need to break out of old habits.


I am not sure I would call them a "bastion of stability" when they have subjugated more than a million-and-a-half Arabs inside fortified compounds, built their own settlements on Arab lands, and enforce the apartheid of those non-jews by the use of lethal force.

dmg626 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Except Israel fired first and Iran retaliated, nice try though.

And rightly so, Israel needs to remove the Iranian scum and its supporters from Syria


And what about the Israeli scum? They just get elected to office... :roll:


I mean, ruling with an iron fist is one way of maintaining order. It's not a good way of doing things and I don't get how they make it work but they do. Believe me, i'm no fan of what they do to the Palestinians, but we all know the conflict is far more complicated than "good guys vs bad guys".

And as poorly as recent news reflects upon Israel, remember it's our asshat in chief being bribed via campaign donations by Sheldon Adelson that created the spark that set this fire. Trump personally does not give a rats ass about what the official capital of Israel is. Nor did he care about the avoidable deaths he was about to cause.

Be mad at the US political system that allows legal bribery through political donations to superPACs and "dark money" groups.

The long term conflict though? It's hard to truly assign blame when there's no clear path forward. I feel sympathy for both sides. In the end everyone is human and we share our terrible behaviors across all cultures. (Yes I know the Palestinians are suffering more but this still hurts everyone involved)
 
olle
Posts: 821
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:38 am

Re: Israel and Iran trade fire

Wed May 16, 2018 4:59 pm

Un tried to make things work in 1948 but Israel terrorists killed the envoy Mr Bernadotte. Mer Bernadotte by the way leading the white busses in 1945 in Germany.
 
salttee
Posts: 2342
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2016 3:26 am

Re: Israel and Iran trade fire

Wed May 16, 2018 7:06 pm

olle wrote:
Un tried to make things work in 1948 but Israel terrorists killed the envoy Mr Bernadotte. Mer Bernadotte by the way leading the white busses in 1945 in Germany.
Are you trying to impute Palestinians or Muslims with this post? That's the way it appears to me.

Count Bernadotte, the Swedish diplomat, did indeed put his life in danger in order to save Jews in Nazi Germany during the war. However, you should have taken the trouble to mention that he was assassinated by the Zionists in September of 1948 as he was once again working on a humanitarian mission - trying to stop the slaughter of innocent Palestinians.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folke_Ber ... assination
 
MoonC
Posts: 153
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 1:26 am

Re: Israel and Iran trade fire

Wed May 16, 2018 7:42 pm

Israel trying to fool its eternal bitch to go and die fighting another pointelss war that will turn out to take longer than planned and thus turn into another disaster but don't you ever dare question it because 6 quatrillion Jews, anti-Semite and etc.

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