If law enforcement located the suspect through a genealogy site, it could raise ethical issues, particularly if individuals did not consent to having their genetic profiles searched against crime scene evidence.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nyt ... r.amp.html

flyingclrs727 wrote:

If law enforcement located the suspect through a genealogy site, it could raise ethical issues, particularly if individuals did not consent to having their genetic profiles searched against crime scene evidence.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nyt ... r.amp.html

WarRI1 wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

If law enforcement located the suspect through a genealogy site, it could raise ethical issues, particularly if individuals did not consent to having their genetic profiles searched against crime scene evidence.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nyt ... r.amp.html

The most important thing is he is identified after all theses years, no matter how they did it.

DLFREEBIRD wrote:

Perhaps he stopped because he found out about DNA....... DNA was first used to aid a criminal investigation by Professor Jeffreys in 1986. This investigation used DNA fingerprinting techniques to link semen stain samples, collected from two rapes/murders that had occurred three years apart in 1983 and 1986, in a small village in Leicestershire, UK. The probability of this match occurring by chance was calculated as 5.8 x 10-8. This result not only linked the two crimes and secured the conviction of the perpetrator Colin Pitchfork, but also exonerated an innocent man implicated in the murders and led to the first mass screening project undertaken for DNA profiling in the world.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

WarRI1 wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

The most important thing is he is identified after all theses years, no matter how they did it.

I agree. I quoted the New York Times article, but I don't agree with it.

Dutchy wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

WarRI1 wrote:

The most important thing is he is identified after all theses years, no matter how they did it.

I agree. I quoted the New York Times article, but I don't agree with it.

Of course, it is good a serial killer has been caught. How he has been caught is troublesome. I hate to live in a society which has total control and I feel this is a step towards this.

These commercial DNA-sites are quite dangerous. They are known to sell off their databases to the pharmaceutical industry and now apparently justice department can browse through the data, without a focus. I would never have my DNA checked with such a firm.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

I agree. I quoted the New York Times article, but I don't agree with it.

Of course, it is good a serial killer has been caught. How he has been caught is troublesome. I hate to live in a society which has total control and I feel this is a step towards this.

These commercial DNA-sites are quite dangerous. They are known to sell off their databases to the pharmaceutical industry and now apparently justice department can browse through the data, without a focus. I would never have my DNA checked with such a firm.

One of the articles I read but can't find right now said the match was done without the knowledge or cooperation of the DNA database company. The management of one of the companies said they only work with law enforcement if there is a court order.

Dutchy wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Of course, it is good a serial killer has been caught. How he has been caught is troublesome. I hate to live in a society which has total control and I feel this is a step towards this.

These commercial DNA-sites are quite dangerous. They are known to sell off their databases to the pharmaceutical industry and now apparently justice department can browse through the data, without a focus. I would never have my DNA checked with such a firm.

One of the articles I read but can't find right now said the match was done without the knowledge or cooperation of the DNA database company. The management of one of the companies said they only work with law enforcement if there is a court order.

Wow, so that seems to be illegal search right?

salttee wrote:

It looks like it was public information to me - no warrant needed.

IMO railing against this technology is just railing against modernity: a hopeless cause.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

The prosecutors may have created a fake identity on the website for the purpose of getting the DNA testing and matching without telling the website owners and employees.

salttee wrote:

It looks like it was public information to me - no warrant needed.

IMO railing against this technology is just railing against modernity: a hopeless cause.

salttee wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

DNA public information? Hopefully not.

I was referring to the genealogy site.

Dutchy wrote:

DNA public information? Hopefully not.

Dutchy wrote:

salttee wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

DNA public information? Hopefully not.

I was referring to the genealogy site.

Me too. If I set my privacy settings to maximum with FB, then it is not public information, right? Hopefully, this genealogy site has the same protection.

Dutchy wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

The prosecutors may have created a fake identity on the website for the purpose of getting the DNA testing and matching without telling the website owners and employees.

That is a possibility that hadn't crossed my mind, good catch. I'm not a lawyer but I do hope this is illegal. I see lots of ethical and civil right problems with this.

Pellegrine wrote:

Just FYI, a lot of paternity suits in the US are also involving genealogy sites. I've given DNA and fingerprints as victim of a crime in the US, and I have no doubt they have my information stored in a database somewhere even though they said, "this is just to rule out your (the owner's) own biometrics."

flyingclrs727 wrote:

[twoid][/twoid]

Pellegrine wrote:

Just FYI, a lot of paternity suits in the US are also involving genealogy sites. I've given DNA and fingerprints as victim of a crime in the US, and I have no doubt they have my information stored in a database somewhere even though they said, "this is just to rule out your (the owner's) own biometrics."

Paternity suits are conducted under civil law. Criminal prosecution is conducted under criminal law. There is also a higher burden of proof, and criminal defendants have lots more legal rights and protections.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Pellegrine wrote:

Just FYI, a lot of paternity suits in the US are also involving genealogy sites. I've given DNA and fingerprints as victim of a crime in the US, and I have no doubt they have my information stored in a database somewhere even though they said, "this is just to rule out your (the owner's) own biometrics."

Paternity suits are conducted under civil law. Criminal prosecution is conducted under criminal law. There is also a higher burden of proof.

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

One of the articles I read but can't find right now said the match was done without the knowledge or cooperation of the DNA database company. The management of one of the companies said they only work with law enforcement if there is a court order.

Wow, so that seems to be illegal search right?

I'm not a lawyer, but if I were the prosecutor, I would have gotten a search warrant before submitting samples to one of the DNA database companies
to search for near matches to relatives to the suspect. Who knows? It's quite possible they did get a warrant but have not yet disclosed everything. We'll know when the case goes to trial.

The prosecutors may have created a fake identity on the website for the purpose of getting the DNA testing and matching without telling the website owners and employees.

DLFREEBIRD wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Wow, so that seems to be illegal search right?

I'm not a lawyer, but if I were the prosecutor, I would have gotten a search warrant before submitting samples to one of the DNA database companies
to search for near matches to relatives to the suspect. Who knows? It's quite possible they did get a warrant but have not yet disclosed everything. We'll know when the case goes to trial.

The prosecutors may have created a fake identity on the website for the purpose of getting the DNA testing and matching without telling the website owners and employees.

i don't think they broke any laws, how it works is you join these sites for as little as 120.00 a year send them your DNA for another fee (in this case they sent the golden state killer dna) then the company assign you a tree branch number with people with similar DNA lineage. You can tell by the number your assigned, your family line, its helpful in double checking the authenticity of genealogy lines already established. All the police had to do was follow the DNA tree line, which must of took a lot of work. if there was no family line, then they would have to build a line and do a lot of genealogy research and go through a lot of garbage cans, to go for 5 percent match to 25 percent match to 50 percent match and finally to 100 percent match.
they must of gone through a lot of garbage cans to get to the correct line. or, they lucked out and got a 50 percent match immediately and knew they only had to go through one garbage can to confirm the golden gate killer identity. much like someone trying to find their father it's legal. Until laws are put into place.

The capture this week of a man whom police believe to be the “Golden State Killer” — who became a suspect only when police matched crime scene DNA to a distant relative on a genealogy website used to map family trees — has highlighted the consumer DNA industry’s growing role in reenergizing cold cases and reshaping justice in the digital age.

But the hyper-personal data’s use in public policing also has inflamed concerns that people don’t truly understand the power of what they’re handing over: the building blocks of identity, both for themselves and their families. And, in some cases, they’re giving police the keys to linking their loved ones to evidence that could convict them.

“Even if [users are] content with making that trade-off with their personal data, they’re also making that trade-off with their extended family, their children, their children’s children,” she said. “And they’re not just making it for 2018, but for 2020 and 2040, when data from the genome could be used in all sorts of different ways.”

GEDmatch’s privacy policy says its tools are “for comparison and research purposes” and encourages people to think closely about what they’re providing. “In the end, if you require absolute privacy and security, we must ask that you do not upload your data to GEDmatch,” its policy states.

Curtis Rogers, a GEDmatch co-founder, said in a statement that while “we were not approached by law enforcement or anyone else about this case or about the DNA, it has always been GEDmatch’s policy to inform users that the database could be used for other uses.”

DLFREEBIRD wrote:

flyingclrs727 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Wow, so that seems to be illegal search right?

I'm not a lawyer, but if I were the prosecutor, I would have gotten a search warrant before submitting samples to one of the DNA database companies
to search for near matches to relatives to the suspect. Who knows? It's quite possible they did get a warrant but have not yet disclosed everything. We'll know when the case goes to trial.

The prosecutors may have created a fake identity on the website for the purpose of getting the DNA testing and matching without telling the website owners and employees.

i don't think they broke any laws, how it works is you join these sites for as little as 120.00 a year send them your DNA for another fee (in this case they sent the golden state killer dna) then the company assign you a tree branch number with people with similar DNA lineage. You can tell by the number your assigned, your family line, its helpful in double checking the authenticity of genealogy lines already established. All the police had to do was follow the DNA tree line, which must of took a lot of work. if there was no family line, then they would have to build a line and do a lot of genealogy research and go through a lot of garbage cans, to go for 5 percent match to 25 percent match to 50 percent match and finally to 100 percent match.
they must of gone through a lot of garbage cans to get to the correct line. or, they lucked out and got a 50 percent match immediately and knew they only had to go through one garbage can to confirm the golden gate killer identity. much like someone trying to find their father it's legal. Until laws are put into place.

Aesma wrote:

The website can't work if the data isn't shared. The goal is to find relatives so for that to work everyone's DNA has to be "public". Doesn't mean a user will get the DNA info of someone else, but the website will compare the DNA of every member to each other.

GEDmatch exists to provide DNA and genealogy tools for comparison and research purposes. It is supported entirely by users, volunteers, and researchers. DNA and Genealogical research, by its very nature, requires the sharing of information. Because of that, users participating in this site should expect that their information will be shared with other users.

The data you upload to GEDmatch is placed into a database to make it accessible to other users through the various applications on this site. The DNA and genealogical data is not encrypted. DNA data is compressed in a proprietary format which makes it unreadable without a great deal of effort. Genealogy data is stored as plain text in a database. We encrypt your login password before putting it in our database. We cannot tell what your password is. However, there have been cases in the news of encrypted data being hacked and decoded. Be aware that may be a possibility on this or any other site. We take measures to ensure that only registered users have access to your results, but those measures have not been and never will be perfect. Direct access to your data is available to GEDmatch personnel, including volunteers, on a need to know basis.

The largest genealogy services, 23andme and Ancestry.com, conduct DNA tests for paying customers but largely shield their findings from other parties. GEDmatch is a free service; consenting users upload test results from a variety of genealogy websites and cross-reference their findings to discover relatives who might have tested with different companies.

"It's kind of intended to be unregulated so people on their own initiative can load their information," UC Berkeley law professor Andrea Roth said.

DLFREEBIRD wrote:

i don't think they broke any laws, how it works is you join these sites for as little as 120.00 a year send them your DNA for another fee (in this case they sent the golden state killer dna) then the company assign you a tree branch number with people with similar DNA lineage. You can tell by the number your assigned, your family line, its helpful in double checking the authenticity of genealogy lines already established. All the police had to do was follow the DNA tree line, which must of took a lot of work. if there was no family line, then they would have to build a line and do a lot of genealogy research and go through a lot of garbage cans, to go for 5 percent match to 25 percent match to 50 percent match and finally to 100 percent match.
they must of gone through a lot of garbage cans to get to the correct line. or, they lucked out and got a 50 percent match immediately and knew they only had to go through one garbage can to confirm the golden gate killer identity. much like someone trying to find their father it's legal. Until laws are put into place.

The detectives in the Golden State Killer case uploaded the suspect’s DNA sample. But they would have had to check a box online certifying that the DNA was their own or belonged to someone for whom they were legal guardians, or that they had “obtained authorization” to upload the sample.

“The purpose was to make these connections and to find these relatives,” said Blaine Bettinger, a lawyer affiliated with GEDmatch. “It was not intended to be used by law enforcement to identify suspects of crimes.”

But joining for that purpose does not technically violate site policy, he added.

A cogent clue was a statement that the killer made during one of his attacks, "I hate you, Bonnie". DeAngelo had been engaged to a Bonnie, but never married her.[123] Before the arrest, law enforcement uploaded the Golden State Killer's DNA profile from crime scenes to Florida-based genetic genealogy website GEDmatch, and identified the killer's family, after which it found that DeAngelo had been engaged to a Bonnie.[123][124] They then identified DeAngelo as the main suspect and acquired two discarded samples of his DNA, one of which definitively matched that of the killer.[125]

lebda wrote:

I've been studying this case for the past few years, and it really shocked me considering I grew up in and have family in the areas where he struck, and I never even knew about that history while I lived there. It's incredible to me that he was caught. I knew it was bound to happen some day, but I didn't know it would be this soon. I'm also surprised that he's in his 70s. Witnesses and survivors usually guessed he was in his late teens to mid-20s, which would have made him in his late 50s or 60s. Then there's the whole cop thing...

salttee wrote:

In California, a DNA sample is taken once a person is arrested for a felony, no conviction necessary.
I think all police should provide DNA samples.

I have no problem with DNA databases, this is something that actually does prevent crime, as well as take criminals off the street. AFIK there is no downside, everybody's DNA is unique, there are no false convictions with the current state of technology.

salttee wrote:

In California, a DNA sample is taken once a person is arrested for a felony, no conviction necessary.
I think all police should provide DNA samples.

I have no problem with DNA databases, this is something that actually does prevent crime, as well as take criminals off the street. AFIK there is no downside, everybody's DNA is unique, there are no false convictions with the current state of technology.