AA747123
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Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:53 pm

Donald Trump has signed into effect another great law. FOSTA which is a fight against online sex trafficking. It has shut down all online ads for escorts (99.9% of on line escorts are trafficked). It provides VERY severe penalties for men who engage in paid for sex. Trump is making good on his promise to MAGA! This is why he WILL be re-elected in 2020!
 
jetwet1
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:58 pm

Forgetting the rhetoric, it's actually something good for once from the Trump Whitehouse.
 
910A
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:01 pm

AA747123 wrote:
99.9% of on line escorts are trafficked.


I guessing you know this from personal experience. :eek:

Finally paid off for John and Cindy McCain whom this is a pet project of theirs. Nice to see a solid bi-partisan effort.

In the end, I suppose all these sites will just move off shore out of the reach of the US government.
 
AA747123
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:09 pm

910A wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
99.9% of on line escorts are trafficked.


I guessing you know this from personal experience. :eek:

Finally paid off for John and Cindy McCain whom this is a pet project of theirs. Nice to see a solid bi-partisan effort.

In the end, I suppose all these sites will just move off shore out of the reach of the US government.


No this was 100% Trumps, he got this done in the past three months, no help from McCain
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:10 pm

For the land of the free you sure do a lot of deciding what consenting adults can and can't do......

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
2122M
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:31 pm

AA747123 wrote:
910A wrote:
AA747123 wrote:
99.9% of on line escorts are trafficked.


I guessing you know this from personal experience. :eek:

Finally paid off for John and Cindy McCain whom this is a pet project of theirs. Nice to see a solid bi-partisan effort.

In the end, I suppose all these sites will just move off shore out of the reach of the US government.


No this was 100% Trumps, he got this done in the past three months, no help from McCain


Got this done in the past 3 months? HR1865 was introduced by Rep. Wagner from Missouri in April of last year (a year is 12 months...)

Did it alone?? By all accounts, Trump had nothing to do with this until it hit his desk last week.

Also, this doesn't change anything about how men are punished when they solicit sex. That has always been illegal (with certain exceptions) and this changes nothing. This has everything to do with holding websites that facilitate these transactions accountable.

This whole thread you started tell me that you have no idea what you are posting about. You are just parroting whatever FOX or Breitbart is saying. If you want to start a conversation, do some research first so you can know a little bit about what you are talking about.

Here's a start, a interesting article about why this bill looks great, but is lacking a great deal of substance and none of the original intent, which was to give victims some recourse. http://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights ... s-lobbying
 
jetero
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:33 pm

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

This was always in Trump's grand plan, I'm sure

What a selfless leader!

#MAGA
 
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scbriml
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:46 pm

AA747123 wrote:
No this was 100% Trumps, he got this done in the past three months


Really? I'm surprised he could find any time between rounds of golf.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
jetero
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:55 pm

Oh ... I’m reminded ... this is the “So what IF Trump slept with a porn star” guy.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1388533

First sentence from a month ago ... “So far there is no evidence that Trump had an affair with Stormy Daniels.”

Another profile in intellectual courage ... because at the end of the day it takes courage to believe absolute sh*t.

#Winning

Ole AA747123 definitely has only the victims at heart.
 
CCGPV
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:08 pm

AA747123 wrote:
Donald Trump has signed into effect another great law. FOSTA which is a fight against online sex trafficking. It has shut down all online ads for escorts (99.9% of on line escorts are trafficked). It provides VERY severe penalties for men who engage in paid for sex. Trump is making good on his promise to MAGA! This is why he WILL be re-elected in 2020!


99.9%...what a load of crap.

I've met plenty of escorts who are paying for college or just making bank while they're young and single.
I have all day.
 
seb146
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:08 pm

I don't understand the point of this bill. Is it to say he is winning? If no one cares what consenting adults do, why was this bill needed? Didn't tRump pay for play?

Seeing a bill to get kids out of sex trafficking is great. But punishing adults for being with adults and using adult sites seems crazy to me.

EDIT:

Doesn't this create more and bigger government intruding into people's lives? I thought Republicans are against that? Isn't that why they wanted us to vote against Obama and Democrats because they were expanding government into our personal lives and homes?
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
jetero
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:09 pm

Maybe this will help us deport all of the escorts, too, so there's that.

#MAGA
 
jetero
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:35 pm

seb146 wrote:
I don't understand the point of this bill. Is it to say he is winning? If no one cares what consenting adults do, why was this bill needed? Didn't tRump pay for play?

Seeing a bill to get kids out of sex trafficking is great. But punishing adults for being with adults and using adult sites seems crazy to me.

EDIT:

Doesn't this create more and bigger government intruding into people's lives? I thought Republicans are against that? Isn't that why they wanted us to vote against Obama and Democrats because they were expanding government into our personal lives and homes?


seb you're giving Trump too much credit (like OP).

Everything you have written presumes that he thought about the above as a matter of policy.
 
skyservice_330
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:43 pm

One can only wonder how many texts Trump is getting right now from past 'girlfriends' and 'acquaintances' who are complaining that he is negatively impacting their livelihood :rotfl:

That said, any steps that can be taken to protect people from this type of horrible treatment is great. Kudos to the McCains and other member(s) that have been the driving force on this.

Now, is there steps that can be taken to protect women from having their p*ssies grabbed without their consent by dirty ol' men?
 
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BartSimpson
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:48 pm

And I always thought it was a god-given right to have sex between adults...
 
ltbewr
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:03 pm

This was a no-brainer. Sexual trafficking, especially involving minors and exploited persons was far too easy on the targeted sites and needed to be curbed. My fear is that sites will go into the 'dark web' or people will find workarounds of this law.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:33 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
For the land of the free you sure do a lot of deciding what consenting adults can and can't do......

Best regards
Thomas


I support the legalization and regulation (and heavy taxation) of prostitution. The idea that we are going to eliminate the world's oldest profession through laws is moronic.

That said, in the current state, the term "consenting" is a bit of a stretch. Most of these women aren't really "consenting" and that's the problem.
-Doc Lightning-

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agill
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:07 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
For the land of the free you sure do a lot of deciding what consenting adults can and can't do......

Best regards
Thomas

You need to read something about trafficking. It's disgusting slave trade.
 
2122M
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:14 pm

agill wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
For the land of the free you sure do a lot of deciding what consenting adults can and can't do......

Best regards
Thomas

You need to read something about trafficking. It's disgusting slave trade.


There is a difference between sex trafficking and prostitution. I think those concepts are getting muddled in this thread. However, the law discussed is about punishing websites for facilitating illegal acts, in this case prostitution or sex trafficking.
 
AA747123
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:10 am

Prostitution and Sex Trafficking are the exact same thing, no difference. What girl says "when I grow up I want to sell my body for sex" NONE! They are all victims of a particular circumstance, and are more or less forced into this life. Anyone who partakes is guilty of facilitation of sex trafficking.
Some counties in Nevada are even introducing bills to ban their so called legal brothels.
 
2122M
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:33 am

AA747123 wrote:
Prostitution and Sex Trafficking are the exact same thing, no difference. What girl says "when I grow up I want to sell my body for sex" NONE! They are all victims of a particular circumstance, and are more or less forced into this life. Anyone who partakes is guilty of facilitation of sex trafficking.
Some counties in Nevada are even introducing bills to ban their so called legal brothels.


What girl says, “when I grow up I want to be a cashier at K-Mart”. Probably none, but that doesn’t make it an immoral career.....
 
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alberchico
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:55 am

AA747123 wrote:
Prostitution and Sex Trafficking are the exact same thing, no difference. What girl says "when I grow up I want to sell my body for sex" NONE! They are all victims of a particular circumstance, and are more or less forced into this life. Anyone who partakes is guilty of facilitation of sex trafficking.
Some counties in Nevada are even introducing bills to ban their so called legal brothels.


No they are not !!! There is a clear legal and moral distinction between having a consensual encounter with a woman who is pursuing sex work at her own free will and being with a woman who is beaten and forced to perform under duress.
short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
 
Jouhou
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:45 am

AA747123 wrote:
Prostitution and Sex Trafficking are the exact same thing, no difference. What girl says "when I grow up I want to sell my body for sex" NONE! They are all victims of a particular circumstance, and are more or less forced into this life. Anyone who partakes is guilty of facilitation of sex trafficking.
Some counties in Nevada are even introducing bills to ban their so called legal brothels.


I literally heard many girls say this in middle school through high school. On the basis they'd be paid to have "fun". Obviously they weren't aware of the reality, but it's most certainly been said. A lot.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:25 am

AA747123 wrote:
Prostitution and Sex Trafficking are the exact same thing, no difference. What girl says "when I grow up I want to sell my body for sex" NONE! They are all victims of a particular circumstance, and are more or less forced into this life. Anyone who partakes is guilty of facilitation of sex trafficking.
Some counties in Nevada are even introducing bills to ban their so called legal brothels.


This is incredibly stupid. How many jobs could you say that about?

Also what about porn stars? This is coincidentally one of the few areas your hero has expertise in.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:58 am

DocLightning wrote:
I support the legalization and regulation (and heavy taxation) of prostitution. The idea that we are going to eliminate the world's oldest profession through laws is moronic.


In deed it is moronic.

That said, in the current state, the term "consenting" is a bit of a stretch. Most of these women aren't really "consenting" and that's the problem.


Qualify "most"? As far as i know no one bothered enough to conduct proper studies, and the numbers that float around are from NGOs on a mission and if you dig deeper, at their core those are just estimates based on very little hard data.I have a little bias due to experience myself, but my gut feeling tells me it is probably not "most", at least around here.
Also what is forced prostitution exactly? Under German law for example, if i owned a brothel, a friend of mine was for some reason in significant need of money and i just offer her to work in my brothel to make that money, it would constitute forced prostitution, since i turn a profit from someone needing money via sex. Same is true if i had a porn production company and offered her to star in one of those films If that definition would be expanded to all employers, every time they hire someone desperate for a job, that would constitute forced labor, because they end up making money by employing someone in desperate need of money. And "banking" would be a more shady business as it already is.

agill wrote:
You need to read something about trafficking. It's disgusting slave trade.


Yup, you do need to. A first step would be to make it legal to offer sexual services, as a proper job with all the rights an employee has. Making prostitution illegal is a pretty good way to ensure that the police doesn´t find what is going on and which crimes are committed. Those laws are pretty much aiding and embedding sex trafficking.
Punishing the customers per se also isn´t a good idea, Swedish prostitutes are quite positive that only accomplished that nice customers stay away and only the assholes show up. Driving out the non-trafficked women.

AA747123 wrote:
Prostitution and Sex Trafficking are the exact same thing, no difference.


BS, my best friend used to work as a prostitute, and kept doing so part time up to a few years ago when she got married. No one else even knew how she added some serious money to her dayjob income. I only know because i told her how i accidentally found out that one of my university classmates was paying for university that way, well, for her living while in University, when i ran into her on the way to my job on a Saturday morning. She had assumed i´d know what building she had just come out off and asked "You won´t tell anyone, right?". And then i saw the sign....
That was back in the days when prostitution was already legal, but advertising for brothels wasn´t. So the girls working in her brothel had to manage their own website. At some points they had killed the HTML table they´ve used to advertise which of them would be available on which days/times. So, she asked nerd me if i would have a look at it, which ultimately led to me sitting in a brothels kitchen/breakroom for a day, fixing their website and cleaned that virus infected computer. They ran the place themselves. There was no pimp involved. They all had day jobs. Nurse and legal secretaries was quite common.
Their place was somewhat upscale, so they probably didn´t get a truly average cut of customers, but to my surprise they didn´t even talk bad about their customers, quite the opposite when it came to regulars.

So, yeah... human trafficking is a problem, and it is certainly driven in a large part by sex trade, but saying that prostitution and sex trafficking are the same thing is just utter nonsense.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
jetero
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:04 am

AA747123 wrote:
Prostitution and Sex Trafficking are the exact same thing, no difference. What girl says "when I grow up I want to sell my body for sex" NONE! They are all victims of a particular circumstance, and are more or less forced into this life. Anyone who partakes is guilty of facilitation of sex trafficking.
Some counties in Nevada are even introducing bills to ban their so called legal brothels.



If your Prez is guilty of paying for the grabbing of the p*ssy (as all of us can agree he’s been there, done that) would you put him in jail?
 
agill
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:17 am

tommy1808 wrote:

Yup, you do need to. A first step would be to make it legal to offer sexual services, as a proper job with all the rights an employee has. Making prostitution illegal is a pretty good way to ensure that the police doesn´t find what is going on and which crimes are committed. Those laws are pretty much aiding and embedding sex trafficking.
Punishing the customers per se also isn´t a good idea, Swedish prostitutes are quite positive that only accomplished that nice customers stay away and only the assholes show up. Driving out the non-trafficked women.


http://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/projects/welcome-to-paradise/

Well it drives up demand and with that trafficking. But your country your rules. I think it's awfull.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:46 am

jetwet1 wrote:
Forgetting the rhetoric, it's actually something good for once from the Trump Whitehouse.


What is actually wrong with legalised and regulated prostitution?
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:50 am

DocLightning wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
For the land of the free you sure do a lot of deciding what consenting adults can and can't do......

Best regards
Thomas


I support the legalization and regulation (and heavy taxation) of prostitution. The idea that we are going to eliminate the world's oldest profession through laws is moronic.

That said, in the current state, the term "consenting" is a bit of a stretch. Most of these women aren't really "consenting" and that's the problem.


That would almost entirely depend upon which country you're talking about.
 
Kiwirob
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:01 am

AA747123 wrote:
Prostitution and Sex Trafficking are the exact same thing, no difference. What girl says "when I grow up I want to sell my body for sex" NONE! They are all victims of a particular circumstance, and are more or less forced into this life. Anyone who partakes is guilty of facilitation of sex trafficking.
Some counties in Nevada are even introducing bills to ban their so called legal brothels.


I know a woman who literally fell into prostitution by accident, she met a guy in a club, she had what she thought was a one night stand and the next morning he paid her. After a bit of soul searching and research she ended up working for an agency in London as a sex contractor. She's Australian, a lawyer and was working in the UK as a legal secretary when I met her, she's now a rather prominent child, youth and family law specialist living in Melbourne but she made a fortune in London as an escort, enough to set her up for life back in Australia.

From Monday to Wednesday I was in Atyrau Kazakhstan, on Tuesday night I was in the hotel sports bar having drinks with colleagues, there were 4 hookers working the bar, the next morning on my flight to AMS 2 of the Astana cabin crew the were hookers that were working the bar the previous night.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:44 pm

agill wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

Yup, you do need to. A first step would be to make it legal to offer sexual services, as a proper job with all the rights an employee has. Making prostitution illegal is a pretty good way to ensure that the police doesn´t find what is going on and which crimes are committed. Those laws are pretty much aiding and embedding sex trafficking.
Punishing the customers per se also isn´t a good idea, Swedish prostitutes are quite positive that only accomplished that nice customers stay away and only the assholes show up. Driving out the non-trafficked women.


http://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/projects/welcome-to-paradise/

Well it drives up demand and with that trafficking. But your country your rules. I think it's awfull.


That is one of those stories not having hard data at the bottom of it. And fun how the article implies we have 400k prostitutes, while in fact that lumps in everyone somehow working in a sex related field, like strippers and 5 time per year opportunity prostitutes and writes at least, fails to mention that is at the top of all estimates, or even that it is an estimate. And btw, no one knows where that 400k estimate comes from, it seems to be simply the highest number someone has ever mention ....

400'000 prostitutes would pay more in rent than the whole market size. So it is obvious nonsense.

And since there ia no hard data, noone actually knows how many prostitutes there are now, how many have been there before. The exploding turnover is simply because money otherwise going into organised crime, now is taxed revenue.

There is no reason believe that either numbers or business has increased, and pricing went with inflation.

But good to see you obviously must support the repeal of the US 2nd amendment.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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casinterest
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:48 pm

There are going to be legal challenges to the FOSTA law, if anything just to clarify what "Facilitate" really means.

Backdoor.com was actively scrubbing posts of illegal words, but they were not deleting the posts, and in that manner they were enabling some bad behavior on the site.

Sites like craigslist were actively monitoring and pulling the content down that was questionable. so I am not sure why they closed up. It will be a few years to see whether FOSTA survives completely intact, or if clarifications are issued on it's reach and accountability of third party sites for agreements made between two parties.
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:15 pm

AA747123 wrote:
Prostitution and Sex Trafficking are the exact same thing, no difference. What girl says "when I grow up I want to sell my body for sex" NONE! They are all victims of a particular circumstance, and are more or less forced into this life. Anyone who partakes is guilty of facilitation of sex trafficking.
Some counties in Nevada are even introducing bills to ban their so called legal brothels.

Prostitution is labelled as a victimless crime, like drug use. Sex trafficking is Prostitution but to a whole new (more scarey and illegal) level. Hookers in Amsterdam operate as a small, privately owned business. Sex trafficking relies on kidnapping and/or exploitation, usually of kids and illegal immigrants, which is what the bill is really targeting. I will agree that there are some blurred lines between prostitution and sex trafficking, but there are also very solid differences.

Also, I knew a girl in high school that actually wanted to become a stripper.
You know all is right is the world when the only thing people worry about is if the president had sex with a pornstar.


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
agill
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:08 pm

Yes i think the 2 amendment should at least be amended. Just like the German prostitution policu it's great in theory but people get religious about it and accept endless human suffering.
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:19 pm

agill wrote:
Yes i think the 2 amendment should at least be amended. Just like the German prostitution policu it's great in theory but people get religious about it and accept endless human suffering.


Na, last amendment has been done last year. Nothing religious about it, proper observe and adapt. Regulations have been made a hell lot tighter, but the underlaying prostitution is legal and basically a service job remains.

For the endless suffering, violence against sex workers has dramatically dropped, pimping is aggressively procecuted. A simple fact is that prostitutes from Poland, Czech Republic, Bulgaria and Romania come to Germany because of the safer working environment, despite not making more money.

It should tell you something that even the protestant churchs own charity, the Diakonie, criticized the new law interation as going too far (!) and women organisations chiming in. The prostitutes "unions" are sueing the government. I guess our constitutional court has to clean up that one agin.

Best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
seb146
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:38 pm

casinterest wrote:
There are going to be legal challenges to the FOSTA law, if anything just to clarify what "Facilitate" really means.


This is an interesting point. Is an adult "facilitating" when they are selling themselves to feed their husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/wife addiction? What about those who feel they have to do it to make ends meet?

Backdoor.com was actively scrubbing posts of illegal words, but they were not deleting the posts, and in that manner they were enabling some bad behavior on the site.

Sites like craigslist were actively monitoring and pulling the content down that was questionable. so I am not sure why they closed up. It will be a few years to see whether FOSTA survives completely intact, or if clarifications are issued on it's reach and accountability of third party sites for agreements made between two parties.


I am not sure about Backdoor, but I know Craigslist took down all of their "personals" section just so there would be no question.

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/10/health/s ... index.html
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:37 am

Kiwirob wrote:

What is actually wrong with legalised and regulated prostitution?


Unfortunately, what's wrong with it is that it's more expensive to the consumer than unregulated and illegal prostitution. When you have to maintain health and safety standards, pay minimum wage, 401Ks, etc. it winds up costing more than the underground version.

And so legal operations wind up struggling to compete with the illegal ones. But if the enforcement of illegal prostitution is extensive enough, the calculus could start to change. If the risk of running an underground operation starts to cost more than the costs of running a legal one, then we could see successful legalization and regulation.

Unfortunately, I don't see that happening any time in the forseeable future in the U.S.

For the record, I personally find prostitution revolting. Mostly, it's around the idea that I should be having sex with someone who doesn't actually just want to have sex with me. I won't even accept a lap dance. BUT...the fact that I don't like it doesn't mean that I can't support sex workers and advocate for the legalization and regulation of prostitution. I also find zucchini revolting, but I also don't think we should be banning it. But kale...that should be banned. ;)
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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Kiwirob
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:36 am

Doc using NZ as an example legalising prostitution has worked out really well, it’s taken most of the street walkers off the streets, brothels are all legal and above board, it’s cleaned up an industry which needed cleaning now it’s safe for everyone.
 
seb146
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:49 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Doc using NZ as an example legalising prostitution has worked out really well, it’s taken most of the street walkers off the streets, brothels are all legal and above board, it’s cleaned up an industry which needed cleaning now it’s safe for everyone.


I am all for legalizing prostitution, but I have been to Nevada and there are still women (and some men) working the streets. From what I understand, that is illegal by Nevada law. There is also minors in the trade in Nevada. I don't know if it is still the same in Oregon, but, when I lived here before, strippers had been classified as "independent contractors" so the club or bar where they performed was not liable for their actions. I personally knew some of the dancers and knew they were adults on their own.

Just a statement of what I have seen and no comment good or bad about the industry or the law.
You say Merry Christmas, I say All Holidays Matter
 
tommy1808
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:53 pm

seb146 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
There are going to be legal challenges to the FOSTA law, if anything just to clarify what "Facilitate" really means.


This is an interesting point. Is an adult "facilitating" when they are selling themselves to feed their husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/wife addiction?


I think one of the more hilarious sides if this law is, that the President that signed it families wealth is based on his grandfather being a pimp.

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LittleFokker
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:50 am

seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Doc using NZ as an example legalising prostitution has worked out really well, it’s taken most of the street walkers off the streets, brothels are all legal and above board, it’s cleaned up an industry which needed cleaning now it’s safe for everyone.


I am all for legalizing prostitution, but I have been to Nevada and there are still women (and some men) working the streets. From what I understand, that is illegal by Nevada law. There is also minors in the trade in Nevada. I don't know if it is still the same in Oregon, but, when I lived here before, strippers had been classified as "independent contractors" so the club or bar where they performed was not liable for their actions. I personally knew some of the dancers and knew they were adults on their own.

Just a statement of what I have seen and no comment good or bad about the industry or the law.


For the record, the Nevada State Constitution clarifies that prostitution is only legal in counties of 50,000 people or less. In other words, all but 2 counties in NV. The two counties not legal are Washoe (Reno) and Clark (Las Vegas/Henderson). Illegal prostitution happens in Vegas because of the city's reputation and that people just don't want to travel far to be above board. Many don't know that Pahrump is just a 60 minute drive away in Nye County, and there are at least 2 established legal brothels there.
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seb146
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:06 am

LittleFokker wrote:
seb146 wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:
Doc using NZ as an example legalising prostitution has worked out really well, it’s taken most of the street walkers off the streets, brothels are all legal and above board, it’s cleaned up an industry which needed cleaning now it’s safe for everyone.


I am all for legalizing prostitution, but I have been to Nevada and there are still women (and some men) working the streets. From what I understand, that is illegal by Nevada law. There is also minors in the trade in Nevada. I don't know if it is still the same in Oregon, but, when I lived here before, strippers had been classified as "independent contractors" so the club or bar where they performed was not liable for their actions. I personally knew some of the dancers and knew they were adults on their own.

Just a statement of what I have seen and no comment good or bad about the industry or the law.


For the record, the Nevada State Constitution clarifies that prostitution is only legal in counties of 50,000 people or less. In other words, all but 2 counties in NV. The two counties not legal are Washoe (Reno) and Clark (Las Vegas/Henderson). Illegal prostitution happens in Vegas because of the city's reputation and that people just don't want to travel far to be above board. Many don't know that Pahrump is just a 60 minute drive away in Nye County, and there are at least 2 established legal brothels there.


That makes sense. I had to look it up and the cat house outside Reno is pretty close to splitting hairs. It is on the Storey County side of I-80.
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Aesma
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:09 pm

AA747123 wrote:
Prostitution and Sex Trafficking are the exact same thing, no difference. What girl says "when I grow up I want to sell my body for sex" NONE! They are all victims of a particular circumstance, and are more or less forced into this life. Anyone who partakes is guilty of facilitation of sex trafficking.
Some counties in Nevada are even introducing bills to ban their so called legal brothels.


There are plenty of real victims in this trade, we can all agree on that.

However, it's a job that some women find relatively easy or even enjoyable (especially high end escorts who can choose clients) and well paid, so it will always have an attraction.
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:46 pm

DocLightning wrote:
Kiwirob wrote:

What is actually wrong with legalised and regulated prostitution?


Unfortunately, what's wrong with it is that it's more expensive to the consumer than unregulated and illegal prostitution. When you have to maintain health and safety standards, pay minimum wage, 401Ks, etc. it winds up costing more than the underground version.

And so legal operations wind up struggling to compete with the illegal ones. But if the enforcement of illegal prostitution is extensive enough, the calculus could start to change. If the risk of running an underground operation starts to cost more than the costs of running a legal one, then we could see successful legalization and regulation.

Unfortunately, I don't see that happening any time in the forseeable future in the U.S.

I think it's akin to legalizing marijuana. Sure, presumably the street dealers can move it for less, but there's definitely a clientele that wants a higher level of service than the street market. Over time the market would shift from street to establishments. I also think over time that legalized prostitution would give the occupation less stigma.

BTW Netflix ran a film featuring workers at a German brothel. I think it was British made. The biggest complaint the women had was that it was boring work and certain parts of their anatomy got sore. The biggest complaint the brothel owner had was being undercut on price by cheaper brothels and/or street walkers.
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Aesma
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:15 pm

That's also why you don't want to heavily tax it. People definitely would pay a premium to be above board and safer (both for drugs and for prostitution), but too high a price necessarily discourages people if the illegal cheap way is safe enough.
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Aesma
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:16 pm

Also I would trust the intentions of the US prohibition on prostitution and its "humanist" side more if it didn't put supposed "victims" in jail...
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:16 pm

Kiwirob wrote:
Doc using NZ as an example legalising prostitution has worked out really well, it’s taken most of the street walkers off the streets, brothels are all legal and above board, it’s cleaned up an industry which needed cleaning now it’s safe for everyone.


Fair enough, but the difference is that NZ's culture and political milieu generally isn't prone to massive bouts of false puritanism.
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c933103
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:16 pm

seb146 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
There are going to be legal challenges to the FOSTA law, if anything just to clarify what "Facilitate" really means.


This is an interesting point. Is an adult "facilitating" when they are selling themselves to feed their husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/wife addiction? What about those who feel they have to do it to make ends meet?

From the way it's phased it seems to me that, if I tell you prostitutes exists in the Las Vegas in this forum thread, then managers of airliners.net could now be guilty for this as you now learned about you can find them in Las Vegas, which probably can be see as the platform facilitated you to find them out
 
seb146
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:24 pm

c933103 wrote:
seb146 wrote:
casinterest wrote:
There are going to be legal challenges to the FOSTA law, if anything just to clarify what "Facilitate" really means.


This is an interesting point. Is an adult "facilitating" when they are selling themselves to feed their husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/wife addiction? What about those who feel they have to do it to make ends meet?

From the way it's phased it seems to me that, if I tell you prostitutes exists in the Las Vegas in this forum thread, then managers of airliners.net could now be guilty for this as you now learned about you can find them in Las Vegas, which probably can be see as the platform facilitated you to find them out


Which is insane, IMO. I do not solicit and think it is a waste of my money, but if other consenting adults want to, it is none of my business. Maybe a better idea would be to set something up for the victims of sex crimes and sex trafficking instead of going after the industry as a whole? Like police and social workers can hand out cards to prostitutes that say something like "we are not going to arrest you for this but if you want out, you can call this number and you can get help getting out" and actually have resources like job training and housing and even substance abuse counseling.
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jordanh
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Re: Trump signs FOSTA law

Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:26 pm

AA747123 wrote:
Prostitution and Sex Trafficking are the exact same thing, no difference. What girl says "when I grow up I want to sell my body for sex" NONE! They are all victims of a particular circumstance, and are more or less forced into this life. Anyone who partakes is guilty of facilitation of sex trafficking.
Some counties in Nevada are even introducing bills to ban their so called legal brothels.


So... now you are saying Trump is guilty of Sex Trafficking... :checkmark:

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