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Jayafe
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Re: China announces 25% tariff against some US-built planes

Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:42 am

mham001 wrote:
Will Europe have the balls to follow suit?


Sad times these when a so-called super power country passes laws for a matter of balls. The rest of the world still follows reason instead of testicles. I understand it’s easier than using the brain, but still sad...
 
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WarRI1
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Re: China announces 25% tariff against some US-built planes

Wed Apr 11, 2018 1:14 am

WarRI1 wrote:
and we pay with billions and millions of jobs.


ah.... Steel tariffs cost 5 workers for every job saved. You can be reasonable sure that these tariffs also cost more jobs than they protect.



Are you what they call a Free Trader, or better yet are you a Chinese made Robot ? You make it sound like China is invincible, untouchable. I think not myself.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
tommy1808
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Re: China announces 25% tariff against some US-built planes

Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:36 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Are you what they call a Free Trader, or better yet are you a Chinese made Robot ?


I am very much in favor of free trade. But i compete directly with Chinese companies and don´t buy Chinese, neither in private, nor professionally (unless i have no other choice, rarely happened yet).

Or course we also have a global supply line and out of our biggest suppliers two are US, one is Chinese (other side of the house). We also have customer in both the US and China.

Guess how much i like the idea of those two slapping tariffs on each others products? Especially since i work in an area where you usually don´t change a screw or a single pixel on the type label. Those customers won´t have a choice than to keep buying.
Tariffs that negate government money artificially lowering prices, i am fine with that. But protectionist tariffs..... never worked to the benefit of people, never will. All it does is increase market pricing, so more margin for companies not effected by those tariffs. Its basically give-it-to-the-rich.tax plan part II.

You make it sound like China is invincible, untouchable. I think not myself.


They have 1.3 Billion people and an effective education system. Protectionism is like building higher dams along rivers, works for a while, but when it stops working, your countryside is under a couple of feet of water. Better make sure that the rivers have more room to expend to at high tide, harder to do, but avoids catastrophe in the long run.

If you want to beat the PRC, you have to make their citizens beat their own government and come into the fold of people who elect their leaders and are committed to at least one version of human rights that is recognizable as such. Slapping tariffs on their products just makes people gather behind their leaders and even increase their stranglehold.

Democracies should start treating any non-democratic state as 2nd class entities and basically make clear that those government don´t really have legal standing to present the territory they occupy. Would be a good start that, if such choice exists, recognize the democratically elected government instead of the Junta.If Trump wanted to send some sort of message to Bejing, he may want to move the US embassy to Taipei.

But well, i guess Trump had to do the Junta in Bejing more favors than just handing the pacific to them for getting some brand recognition. We know he is willing to throw lots of people under the bus if there is money in it for himself.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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Aesma
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Re: China announces 25% tariff against some US-built planes

Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:07 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
99.99% sure there is no real strategy by this administration, but foreign governments, companies and American corporations are on notice. They cannot abuse the system within the scope of international trade pacts and American laws. There is a twitter handle watching you.


The "international trade pact" in this case is called the WTO. Trump is deliberately undermining the WTO, vetoing appointments and bypassing it, like with the tariffs he's proposing.

If he gets his way, there will be no more system to abuse. Everybody will be poorer as a result.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: China announces 25% tariff against some US-built planes

Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:48 am

Aesma wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
99.99% sure there is no real strategy by this administration, but foreign governments, companies and American corporations are on notice. They cannot abuse the system within the scope of international trade pacts and American laws. There is a twitter handle watching you.


The "international trade pact" in this case is called the WTO. Trump is deliberately undermining the WTO, vetoing appointments and bypassing it, like with the tariffs he's proposing.

If he gets his way, there will be no more system to abuse. Everybody will be poorer as a result.


That is because previous administrations give away several sops to China just for joining WTO. That was a big leap for a communist country pretending to be a democracy, so superpowers did the hand holding. Now they are wearing big boy pants, shouldn't they follow rules as others.

Free market economies always find next cheap source of goods and services. If you study 80's bicycle industry, it moved from West->Japan->Taiwan->China. Same repeated for automotives, Probably for aviation in future.

So, China should not think it will be world's producer forever
 
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WarRI1
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Re: China announces 25% tariff against some US-built planes

Thu Apr 12, 2018 2:10 am

They have 1.3 Billion people and an effective education system. Protectionism is like building higher dams along rivers, works for a while, but when it stops working, your countryside is under a couple of feet of water. Better make sure that the rivers have more room to expend to at high tide, harder to do, but avoids catastrophe in the long run.



My point exactly, I would rather feed and cloth 350 million than 1.3 billion hungry mouths. There lies their weakness to me, why should we subsidize them who are a sworn enemy of Democracy and us? It is insane, stupid and beyond belief. Just because one does business with them, does it justify us not standing up to them? They lie cheat and steal, they are ruthless to any person or persons that defies them and their power structure. I do not forget, maybe you let dollars color your view, I do not. They are working to subvert our economy and country for their world view. You think they support us anywhere in the world if it does not serve their aims and weakens us?



democracy and Us
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
tommy1808
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Re: China announces 25% tariff against some US-built planes

Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:50 am

WarRI1 wrote:
My point exactly, I would rather feed and cloth 350 million than 1.3 billion hungry mouths


labor force tends to feed and cloth itself. What they can do beyond that bare minimum is what creates a countries wealth.

There lies their weakness to me, why should we subsidize them who are a sworn enemy of Democracy and us?


We don´t subsidize them, they subsidize us. Trade deficit means you get stuff without getting up in the morning to make it. And they get some vouchers for it (=money) that can only be used in the USA and ultimately has no value outside the US.
And while i am looking forward to the day where the Junta in Beijing is finally overthrown or transforms itself, there are far bigger enemies of democracy than the PRC. China does have democratic structures on the regional level, see for example their city election law: http://www.china.org.cn/english/government/207279.htm

Now, is China a democracy? Nope. Are they sworn enemies of Democracy? Also no.

And you may have noticed that nice words about the PRC rarely ever cross my lips.

I do not forget, maybe you let dollars color your view, I do not.


na, i just don´t life in the United States and know that the USD i keep at home are useless, until i go back to the US and spend it.

They are working to subvert our economy and country for their world view. You think they support us anywhere in the world if it does not serve their aims and weakens us?


You think any country does anything that doesn´t serve that countries goals? Like ever? Countries behave differently because they have different set of goals, not because they have some sort of Morals.

Where have the US "morals" been when the school of the Americas taught half the worlds dictators how to torture? Where has Germany´s Moral been when we sell weapons to Turkey, knowing very damn well that, besides legally binding agreements, those will be used against Kurds fairly likely at some point? Where have any democracies values and moral been when they agreed to give the Beijing Junta a seat on the security council? Ok, at that point the ROC wasn´t a democracy either.. but why not switch diplomatic recognition now?

democracy and Us


We are pretty good in weakening democracy ourselves, we don´t need China for that.

How many Americans think democracy is important? https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/worl ... .html?_r=0

How many Chinese think democracy is good (not the same question)? https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10. ... 0701562283

Confrontation leads to increased nationalism, and that is exactly the opposite of what we want in China.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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WarRI1
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Re: China announces 25% tariff against some US-built planes

Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:30 am

Confrontation leads to increased nationalism, and that is exactly the opposite of what we want in China.

Are we to quake and cower because China has 1.5 billion people? I will take 350 million fellow citizens over 1.5 billion any day. As we see every day, there has to be a Autocratic Dictatorial Government in place to control that many. Personal Freedom does not exist, Big Brother watches the masses. I will take our little country and its foibles and faults any day. I can tell my fellow citizens and my government to go to Hell. I kind of enjoy that myself. Have you noticed how many Fellow A Netetters are from China? I can remember one and he has disappeared.
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
tommy1808
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Re: China announces 25% tariff against some US-built planes

Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:49 am

WarRI1 wrote:
Are we to quake and cower because China has 1.5 billion people?


Nope, it is just fairly stupid to ignore that they have four times the labor force.

As we see every day, there has to be a Autocratic Dictatorial Government in place to control that many.


India would probably like to disagree very much, and they are on a trajectory to have somer 500 Million people more than China when the century is over. While China is projected to peak within the next 10 years and end up with with a little over a Billion, India is going towards 1.6 Billion.

Personal Freedom does not exist, Big Brother watches the masses. I will take our little country and its foibles and faults any day. I can tell my fellow citizens and my government to go to Hell. I kind of enjoy that myself. Have you noticed how many Fellow A Netetters are from China? I can remember one and he has disappeared.


All valid criticism. Aside of the Big Brother bit, which is quite hilarious coming from someone in a country that plays Big Brother to all the world. Problem is that your preferred policy is going to make sure it stays that way and won´t change. It seems like you are totally fine with over a billion people living effectively as property of their government as long as you can tell yourself it saves a hand full of american jobs (which of course it won´t). Union guy just fighting for his unions members it seems. Screw anybody else.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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WarRI1
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Re: China announces 25% tariff against some US-built planes

Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:20 am

tommy1808 wrote:
WarRI1 wrote:
Are we to quake and cower because China has 1.5 billion people?


Nope, it is just fairly stupid to ignore that they have four times the labor force.



And if we in the West stop mass trading with them????


As we see every day, there has to be a Autocratic Dictatorial Government in place to control that many.





India would probably like to disagree very much, and they are on a trajectory to have somer 500 Million people more than China when the century is over. While China is projected to peak within the next 10 years and end up with with a little over a Billion, India is going towards 1.6 Billion.



Bless them, they will need it. I just watched a travelogue about travel in none other than India. You could not pay me to go there. I also see many people of Indian decent here, funny that.



Personal Freedom does not exist, Big Brother watches the masses. I will take our little country and its foibles and faults any day. I can tell my fellow citizens and my government to go to Hell. I kind of enjoy that myself. Have you noticed how many Fellow A Netetters are from China? I can remember one and he has disappeared.





All valid criticism. Aside of the Big Brother bit, which is quite hilarious coming from someone in a country that plays Big Brother to all the world. Problem is that your preferred policy is going to make sure it stays that way and won´t change. It seems like you are totally fine with over a billion people living effectively as property of their government as long as you can tell yourself it saves a hand full of american jobs (which of course it won´t). Union guy just fighting for his unions members it seems. Screw anybody else.



I have always defended jobs, all my life including my own. I find no solace in providing jobs for other countries workers at the expense of ours, especially those with governments who are our sworn enemy. I have no problem with fair trade with our friends and Allies. This is beneficial for both sides and keeps us free and strong.. Fair trade gives both sides worthy employment if the wages are fair to both sides of that trade. We certainly know that this is not true in many instances, especially China with which you do business and defend it. I do not as stated. You do not enrich and empower your enemies as we and many other free countries have done with China who has cheap labor and slave labor. I find this incredible stupidity for a buck. Does anyone really feel that any business is for the benefit of the workers? I don't think so!!!



Aside of the Big Brother bit, which is quite hilarious coming from someone in a country that plays Big Brother to all the world.



Yes we do and we stay free by spending a ton of money to do so and help our friends who are our friends.


best regards
Thomas
It is better to die on your feet, than live on your knees.
 
mham001
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Re: China announces 25% tariff against some US-built planes

Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:36 pm

tommy1808 wrote:

na, i just don´t life in the United States and know that the USD i keep at home are useless, until i go back to the US and spend it.


Huh? There is a money market somewhere nearby, as close as your nearest bank in my country.

But maybe you should keep them as even the Chinese still believe USD are the safest investment around...

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... six-months
China’s holdings of Treasuries rose by the most in six months, underscoring the attractiveness of U.S. assets even amid trade tensions between the world’s two largest economies.

Also in this morning's news, German automakers and unions are thanking Trump for having the balls....

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-h ... story.html
China will let foreign automakers from Volkswagen AG to Ford Motor Co. own more than 50% of local ventures, removing a two-decade restriction and giving a boost to global companies seeking to capture a greater share of the world's largest car market.
 
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casinterest
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Re: China announces 25% tariff against some US-built planes

Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:52 pm

Looks like china is going for the squeeze. 179% tarrif on Sorghum, of which the primary producers are southern farms. (1-2 billion in exports annully).

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... -s-sorghum
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P1aneMad
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Re: China announces 25% tariff against some US-built planes

Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:25 pm

China to open auto market as trade tensions simmer

 - China will scrap a limit on foreign ownership of automotive ventures by 2022 in a major policy shift to open up the world’s biggest car market, even as trade tensions simmer between Washington and Beijing.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-autos-regulation/china-to-open-auto-market-as-trade-tensions-simmer-idUSKBN1HO0YA

I wonder what might have caused the Chinese to do such a U-turn. :stirthepot:
 
tommy1808
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Re: China announces 25% tariff against some US-built planes

Wed Apr 18, 2018 4:52 am

mham001 wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:

na, i just don´t life in the United States and know that the USD i keep at home are useless, until i go back to the US and spend it.


Huh? There is a money market somewhere nearby, as close as your nearest bank in my country.


That just makes USD someone else´s problem. You obviously noticed yourself that the only thing i can do with USD outside the US is exchanging it for real money, i.e. whatever currency is used where you are.

Those people that buy the USD will ultimately spend them in the US.

P1aneMad wrote:
I wonder what might have caused the Chinese to do such a U-turn. :stirthepot:


The simple fact that other countries start to think about equivalent rules and that countries did in fact start to limit Chinese takeovers of their countries companies. That Chinese rule has simply outlived its usefulness and it just starts to do more harm than good to their economy now.
The US tariffs just led to Chinese tariffs.

best regards
Thomas
This Singature is a safe space......
 
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casinterest
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Re: China announces 25% tariff against some US-built planes

Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:52 pm

casinterest wrote:
Looks like china is going for the squeeze. 179% tarrif on Sorghum, of which the primary producers are southern farms. (1-2 billion in exports annully).

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... -s-sorghum


And we have direct effects in place. How many farmers will plant Sorghum this year? What other tariffs are to come?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1HR03Z

"Twenty ships carrying over 1.2 million tonnes of U.S. sorghum are on the water, according to export inspections data from the USDA's Federal Grain Inspection Service. Of the armada, valued at more than $216 million, at least five changed course within hours of China's announcing tariffs on U.S. sorghum imports on Tuesday, Reuters shipping data showed. (Graphic)"
Older than I just was ,and younger than I will soo be.

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