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Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:26 pm

So, we have threads about specific instances of Facebook with regard to Trump, Cambridge Analytica, etc. but none about the general topic of Facebook's data collection policies.

This story ( https://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanmac/growth ... ended-data ) is two days old now, but worth discussing.

On June 18, 2016, one of Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg’s most trusted lieutenants circulated an extraordinary memo weighing the costs of the company’s relentless quest for growth.

“We connect people. Period. That’s why all the work we do in growth is justified. All the questionable contact importing practices. All the subtle language that helps people stay searchable by friends. All of the work we do to bring more communication in. The work we will likely have to do in China some day. All of it,” VP Andrew “Boz” Bosworth wrote.

“So we connect more people,” he wrote in another section of the memo. “That can be bad if they make it negative. Maybe it costs someone a life by exposing someone to bullies.

“Maybe someone dies in a terrorist attack coordinated on our tools.”

The strange thing is that I agree with the first half of the opening statement ("We connect people. Period.") and think the connection motivation is a good thing regardless of down sides (“Maybe someone dies in a terrorist attack coordinated on our tools.”) but don't believe it justifies their deceptive practices, both the ones being called out ("All the questionable contact importing practices. All the subtle language that helps people stay searchable by friends.") which are evident but deceptive, and the ones never called out (the kind of sharing that enabled Cambridge Analytica et al).

Maybe the conclusion many are reaching was obvious before but it's hard to avoid now: Facebook is evil.

Also the snarky side of me can't help but laugh at the way FB is sharing its point of view on the controversy: by using Twitter! :biggrin:
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CCGPV
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:00 pm

None of this should be surprising to anyone. They asked us for permission to use our camera, microphone, access to our contacts AND we literally tell them what we are doing every single day. We crave the attention. They can see the race of people we hang out with, what political things we rant about, our address, our private messages and where we drive our cars, etc.

Google knows even more. They have photos of your house and know what time your alarm is set.

We're all a bunch of morons.
I have all day.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:36 am

So when will the Trump-UK collusion and UK's interference with USA elections investigation starts? Or collusion and interference terms are reserved just for Russia?

Facebook single-handedly managed HRC's loss. That is the fact.
 
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:25 am

dtw2hyd wrote:
Facebook single-handedly managed HRC's loss. That is the fact.


https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/n ... r-investor

About everything evil in this world is paid for with Russian Mob money at the orders of Putin. Trump included. Recently via Deutsche Bank private equity and Trumps handler Dmitry Rybolovlev.

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dtw2hyd
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:44 am

You don't need to invest in Facebook to run a negative campaign against HRC. Just buy the ad thru the self-service portal, define the target audience, pay with any store gift card. They will do the rest.
 
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:23 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
You don't need to invest in Facebook to run a negative campaign against HRC. Just buy the ad thru the self-service portal, define the target audience, pay with any store gift card. They will do the rest.


They supported facebook before it was big, to get the influence tool they wanted. Facebook exits in part to do what it was used for in 2015 and 2016.

Suckerberg is a Russian asset, just like Trump. They sell data, they dont give it away for free, unless ordered to look the other way.

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dtw2hyd
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:55 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
... They sell data, they dont give it away for free, unless ordered to look the other way.

Best regards
Thomas


Obama's Narwhal was totally integrated with Facebook, collected data. Not an issue I suppose.
 
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:09 pm

CCGPV wrote:
None of this should be surprising to anyone. They asked us for permission to use our camera, microphone, access to our contacts AND we literally tell them what we are doing every single day. We crave the attention. They can see the race of people we hang out with, what political things we rant about, our address, our private messages and where we drive our cars, etc.

Google knows even more. They have photos of your house and know what time your alarm is set.

We're all a bunch of morons.

The thing is, they don't spell out what they are going to do with your data.

As below, all they say they're going to do is "provide you with a better experience across Facebook".

It's kind of like lending your flat to a mate for a weekend because you think they're a good bloke, and coming back to find the place trashed.

You trusted them, but they violated the trust.

So whose fault is it, us for trusting or them for trashing?

What I find interesting is all the internal leaked Facebook content that shows the FB employees give themselves the moral high ground yet are the same ones that invented the "questionable contact importing practices", the "subtle language that helps people stay searchable by friends", etc. Add to that https://arstechnica.com/information-tec ... id-phones/ where we read that FB has been scraping Android phone and text call records for years, only adding a dodgy opt-in screen in 2017.

I guess we all have "optimism bias" where we give ourselves the benefit of the doubt, but their lack of moral qualms is pretty sad.

The Ars link above says:

Facebook uses phone-contact data as part of its friend recommendation algorithm. And in recent versions of the Messenger application for Android and Facebook Lite devices, a more explicit request is made to users for access to call logs and SMS logs on Android and Facebook Lite devices. But even if users didn't give that permission to Messenger, they may have given it inadvertently for years through Facebook's mobile apps—because of the way Android has handled permissions for accessing call logs in the past. (For Facebook's instructions on turning off continuous contact uploading, go here. )

If you granted permission to read contacts during Facebook's installation on Android a few versions ago—specifically before Android 4.1 (Jelly Bean)—that permission also granted Facebook access to call and message logs by default. The permission structure was changed in the Android API in version 16. From Android 4.1 on, a single request from those applications would trigger two separate permission requests.

But until the "Marshmallow" version of Android, even with split permissions, all permissions could still be presented all at once, without users getting the option to decline them individually. So Facebook and other applications could continue to gain access to call and SMS data with a single request by specifying an earlier Android SDK version. Starting with Marshmallow, users could toggle these permissions separately themselves. But as many as half of Android users worldwide remain on older versions of the operating system because of carrier restrictions on updates or other issues.

So in overly simplistic terms, at various points in the past if you allowed FB to access your contacts on an Android device ( a bad idea ) it gave itself permission to access your phone and text records ( potentially a very bad idea ).

As we read in the various Cambridge Analytica articles, people who checked a box on a form and told FB that they were researchers could get wide-ranging access to all of this.

The article gives a response from a FB blog post:

Call and text history logging is part of an opt-in feature for people using Messenger or Facebook Lite on Android. This helps you find and stay connected with the people you care about, and provide you with a better experience across Facebook. People have to expressly agree to use this feature. If, at any time, they no longer wish to use this feature they can turn it off in settings, or here for Facebook Lite users, and all previously shared call and text history shared via that app is deleted. While we receive certain permissions from Android, uploading this information has always been opt-in only.

But (a) Ars says this insistence that it's all a part of an opt-in contradicts their own experiences and (b) look at how they justify what they do: "provide you with a better experience across Facebook" is code words for selling out their customers for cash to political actors who can then send spear fishing ads at you.
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:43 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
... They sell data, they dont give it away for free, unless ordered to look the other way.

Best regards
Thomas


Obama's Narwhal was totally integrated with Facebook, collected data. Not an issue I suppose.


If that data wasn't stolen like the one used to hand the USA over to Putins control, nope.

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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:53 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
... They sell data, they dont give it away for free, unless ordered to look the other way.

Best regards
Thomas

Obama's Narwhal was totally integrated with Facebook, collected data. Not an issue I suppose.

Retrospectively, I think we've all been naive, and Obama is largely getting a pass because his sins were in, relative to the Internet time scale, the deep past.

Our steadily building anxieties about the Internet and privacy are only now getting triggered because of another deeply seeded anxiety, Russia.

Buzzfeed's tech writer, Charlie Warzel, captures the current climate very well:

This is a data collection scandal. This is a scandal triggered by a specific incident, but that is broadly about the ways massive companies track us, harvest information from us, and then sell us as coercion targets in sophisticated information campaigns that could be for anything from diapers to mattresses to anti-vax literature.

The story will endure not because of animosity toward political data use but because it perfectly touches upon a deeper anxiety about our online privacy that’s been building for years. Indeed, the Cambridge Analytica scandal could well be the catalyst for a much bigger targeting revolt — a full-scale personal and public reckoning that looks at the way we’ve used the internet for the last decade. It’s a moment that forces us, collectively, to step back and think about what we sacrificed for a more convenient and connected world. And on an internet that feels increasingly toxic it’s hard to look at the tradeoffs we’ve made and feel like we’re getting a fair deal.

Interestingly enough (at least to me), he uses the reaction to Parkland to symbolize all that we're feeling:

The Parkland school shooting this February wasn’t an outlier in terms of casualties or sheer scale of horror and yet that particular tragedy’s aftermath was a breaking point and prompted a full-throated rejection of the status quo. The Parkland students were simply fed up. Fed up with the notion of not having control over their own safety. Fed up with a system in which victims of gun violence seemingly have no agency.

While the situations are drastically different, the frustration at the heart of the Cambridge Analytica scandal is similarly about agency and control. For years we’ve read about privacy scandals from the NSA’s Prism program to the data breaches everywhere from Equifax to Ashley Madison. We’re no stranger to the warnings that the platforms we live on harvest our data and that every detail of our online activities acts as the oil that powers the internet’s economic engine and that there’s little we can do, save for opting out completely. But this one lays bare the downsides of this tradeoff — how, despite their pledge to empower us, the platforms we live on have done just the opposite and stripped us of the agency to dictate what happens with our most personal information. Maybe it’s because Facebook feels so personal or because the 2016 election was so divisive, but this scandal is shaping up to be the event that forces the scales to fall from our eyes. We’ve lost control. And we’re fed up.

Compare and contrast "stripped us of the agency to dictate what happens with our most personal information" to "provide you with a better experience across Facebook".

It's a pretty sobering comparison, IMHO.

Ref: https://www.buzzfeed.com/charliewarzel/ ... .blYZM2P6y
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:47 pm

tommy1808 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
... They sell data, they dont give it away for free, unless ordered to look the other way.

Best regards
Thomas


Obama's Narwhal was totally integrated with Facebook, collected data. Not an issue I suppose.


If that data wasn't stolen like the one used to hand the USA over to Putins control, nope.

Best regards
Thomas


Facebook data was used by Narwhal to target specific voters, motivate them to vote thru Facebook, phone calls or door visits, helped Obama win elections twice. It also tracked their ability to travel and arrange transportation in some cases. Even Karl Rove failed to predict Narwhal's power.

The only difference, for Trump it was allegedly Russians/ British and for Obama, it was teenage girl volunteers. In both cases, Facebook data was used for the same purpose.

Assuming DNC used Narwhal for HRC2014, the missing piece is 1000s of volunteer girls.
 
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:00 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
The only difference, for Trump it was allegedly Russians/ British and for Obama, it was teenage girl volunteers. In both cases, Facebook data was used for the same purpose..


Well... in that case a bank robbery and withdrawing money from your account must be the same for you as well then.

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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:12 pm

Revelation wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
tommy1808 wrote:
... They sell data, they dont give it away for free, unless ordered to look the other way.

Best regards
Thomas

Obama's Narwhal was totally integrated with Facebook, collected data. Not an issue I suppose.

Retrospectively, I think we've all been naive, and Obama is largely getting a pass because his sins were in, relative to the Internet time scale, the deep past.


He got a pass because they didn't use data stolen by a Russian spy nor did they use the data to spread lies, hate speech or use it for defamation of the opposition.

Much of the fake news used in this campaign would have landed people in prision here (and actually people sharing those fake stories, Russia tried the same gig here, do get procecuted and send to prision here).

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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:44 pm

So how do I post an occasional picture from my android phone or computer without giving FB blanket access to other information?
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:31 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
So how do I post an occasional picture from my android phone or computer without giving FB blanket access to other information?


Use an image upload site, i use abload.de, but there are many others.

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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:32 pm

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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:06 pm

And Google wants to become Hal.

Image
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:07 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:

It's a muddled mess.

Now the Zuck is offering to roll out the same privacy standard offered in EU countries to the rest of the world, as if that's a great sacrifice.

It's funny the things you do when you have a gun pointed at your head.

Zuck is prancing around saying he's discovered religion, and no one is buying it.

It's a religious conversion being done under great duress and everyone realizes it.

He's fooling no one.
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Flighty
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:15 pm

Mark has never done one thing that demonstrated he was a decent guy. Never made one statement that wasn't self-serving. I've been watching since 2004. Just an observation.
 
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:43 pm

BEWARE FAGMAN !!!

Facebook
Apple
Google
Microsoft
Amazon
Netflix
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CCGPV
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:33 pm

Flighty wrote:
Mark has never done one thing that demonstrated he was a decent guy. Never made one statement that wasn't self-serving. I've been watching since 2004. Just an observation.


Well duh.

With that much money who cares?
I have all day.
 
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:47 am

You can't make this stuff up.... FB's own vanity address:

Image


Zuck and his team spent Monday visiting Congressional offices... arranging bribes, sorry, "donations," and getting some advance questions, before his Senate testimoney Tuesday at 315 CDT, and HR testimoney Wednesday at 11am CDT.

How To Watch: https://www.wired.com/story/how-to-watc ... -congress/
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:02 pm

Facebook revealed the separate reverse-lookup data spill while responding to the Cambridge Analytica controversy.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/facebook- ... er-in-2013

The issue was that Facebook allowed users to find anyone on the site by entering either their phone number or email address. In 2010, computer science researchers in Greece showed how spammers could use that feature to validate address lists and “craft personalized phishing emails that are far more efficient than traditional techniques by using personal information publicly available in social networks” (PDF).

But Zuckerberg’s written testimony reveals for the first time that it was phone number lookups that were used in the large scale scraping. That’s a more potent weapon for bulk harvesting, because a data miner can programatically cycle through every possible phone number to get a complete corpus. With some exceptions—custom privacy settings or accounts with no phone number attached—sequential mining would yield every Facebook profile.

Facebook removed the email and phone search capabilities entirely last Wednesday. “Given the scale and sophistication of the activity we’ve seen, we believe most people on Facebook could have had their public profile scraped in this way,” wrote Facebook chief technology officer Mike Schroepfer in a blog post.

--------------------------------------------------------

I never gave FB my phone number, no matter how many times they suggested it for whatever reasons...

The e-mail address I use with FB is a unique one, that has no identifiers back to me.
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:26 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
I never gave FB my phone number, no matter how many times they suggested it for whatever reasons...

Me too. Never gave it my contacts either. Never turned on "platform apps", never said "yes" when it asked me if I wanted to "login using Facebook".

Still, that doesn't mean much.

If they're willing to admit to this much utter disregard for privacy, lord knows the full extent of what they've done or allowed others to do.
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:16 pm

Revelation wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
I never gave FB my phone number, no matter how many times they suggested it for whatever reasons...

Me too. Never gave it my contacts either. Never turned on "platform apps", never said "yes" when it asked me if I wanted to "login using Facebook".

Still, that doesn't mean much.

If they're willing to admit to this much utter disregard for privacy, lord knows the full extent of what they've done or allowed others to do.


Really.... Who has "seen behind their curtain" and knows just what they're mining...
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CCGPV
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:36 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Revelation wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
I never gave FB my phone number, no matter how many times they suggested it for whatever reasons...

Me too. Never gave it my contacts either. Never turned on "platform apps", never said "yes" when it asked me if I wanted to "login using Facebook".

Still, that doesn't mean much.

If they're willing to admit to this much utter disregard for privacy, lord knows the full extent of what they've done or allowed others to do.


Really.... Who has "seen behind their curtain" and knows just what they're mining...


They're not mining or stealing anything. We're giving everything to them willingly. Its all right there when you click the agree button. You are giving them permission to snoop through your phone, listen to your calls, read your emails and see where you go 24/7. Its not just Facebook. Google is WAY worse.

You have to use Facebook, upload photos, make posts install the app on your phone and like pages for them to get information about you.

Delete your Facebook and you're just as private as you were in 1975.
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:52 pm

CCGPV wrote:
They're not mining or stealing anything. We're giving everything to them willingly. Its all right there when you click the agree button. You are giving them permission to snoop through your phone, listen to your calls, read your emails and see where you go 24/7. Its not just Facebook. Google is WAY worse.

You have to use Facebook, upload photos, make posts install the app on your phone and like pages for them to get information about you.

Delete your Facebook and you're just as private as you were in 1975.

This is due the "new free" model that everyone wants nowadays. We want free services, free music, free TV, free whatever we can get that is offered. And so we don't give money for it but give up some else that is also valuable that the service we are using works hard to makes money with.

Apple also gets a ton of our private information but their business model does not rely on them selling it to make money. Instead they use it for other purposes (partnering with other companies or universities etc. to offer exclusive useful features to enhance their product's capabilities).

Tugg
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:57 pm

CCGPV wrote:
They're not mining or stealing anything. We're giving everything to them willingly. Its all right there when you click the agree button. You are giving them permission to snoop through your phone, listen to your calls, read your emails and see where you go 24/7. Its not just Facebook. Google is WAY worse.

The word "willingly" is debatable, IMHO.

Yes, we know we're trading some privacy in exchange for a service, but they are intentionally vague with regard to what their settings mean.

Hiding behind the agree button is a cop-out because there is no way to guarantee the person has read and understood any of it.

Where I work they actually make us take multi-question tests after we read certain documents to make sure we've read and understood the jist of it.

We know from using FB that there's a lot of highly engineered vagueness in the settings and by their own admission outright deceptive practices.

We know that by saying they'll use the EU's mandated practices as a way to help remedy the situation that they admit that the non-EU ones have take liberties.

CCGPV wrote:
Delete your Facebook and you're just as private as you were in 1975.

Definitely not. CCTV cameras, facial recognition, admitted internet monitoring programs from Carnivore onward, unadmitted things hinted at via Snowden, need I go on?

Law enforcement admits they abuse license plate scanning and admits they're glad no one has challenged them on it.

Not only is it a less private world, the mindset around privacy has totally changed since 1975.

The default used to be privacy, now the default is no privacy.
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:07 pm

This is where I very much do like the strict privacy requirements of the EU.

Perhaps excessive in some ways but I much prefer that the individual be the ultimate "owner" of any personal information and require any company to actively request to use any information, and allow an individual to require a company to delete data they have on them.

Tugg
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:14 pm

FB doesn't have to directly take advantage of the average user. FB allows corporations, like ESPN, for example, to REQUIRE that you sign in with FB to comment on ESPN's news articles about whatever. And that's where an average user gives up privacy, according to whatever terms ESPN builds into that, particularly when using their ESPN android app.

While it has gotten easier to turn off individual permissions for each app with the later versions of android, those still using phones with older platform versions, and/or those using an older app, may still be giving permissions not needed. In older apps, it was allow all permissions dictated, or you don't get to use the app.

With my Nougat 7.1.1 android phone, I have No Permissions selected for the FB app.

https://android.gadgethacks.com/how-to/ ... r-0168220/

Zuck back again at 9am EDT.
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:34 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Zuck back again at 9am EDT.

All these statements about "we were young and innocent" are pure bullshit.

If you look at how carefully thought out each thing FB does with regard to maximizing the amount of personal data they gather, such a statement is absurd.

I've sat in enough corporate "plausible deniability" meetings to know BS when I see it.
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:10 am

Revelation wrote:
CCGPV wrote:
They're not mining or stealing anything. We're giving everything to them willingly. Its all right there when you click the agree button. You are giving them permission to snoop through your phone, listen to your calls, read your emails and see where you go 24/7. Its not just Facebook. Google is WAY worse.

The word "willingly" is debatable, IMHO.

Yes, we know we're trading some privacy in exchange for a service, but they are intentionally vague with regard to what their settings mean.

Hiding behind the agree button is a cop-out because there is no way to guarantee the person has read and understood any of it.

Where I work they actually make us take multi-question tests after we read certain documents to make sure we've read and understood the jist of it.

We know from using FB that there's a lot of highly engineered vagueness in the settings and by their own admission outright deceptive practices.

We know that by saying they'll use the EU's mandated practices as a way to help remedy the situation that they admit that the non-EU ones have take liberties.

CCGPV wrote:
Delete your Facebook and you're just as private as you were in 1975.

Definitely not. CCTV cameras, facial recognition, admitted internet monitoring programs from Carnivore onward, unadmitted things hinted at via Snowden, need I go on?

Law enforcement admits they abuse license plate scanning and admits they're glad no one has challenged them on it.

Not only is it a less private world, the mindset around privacy has totally changed since 1975.

The default used to be privacy, now the default is no privacy.


The law doesn't care if you didn't read the document before signing it. That's on you for being lazy. There needs to be better education about what privacy is in the modern world. Kids need to be taught this now at a young age. I know friends and colleagues who've dealt with sexting issues with their kids and its a nightmare. It never goes away.

I agree with you about the intrusion of CCTV and the like but that's a whole another ballgame because its the government doing that and not a private company that we give info to.
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tommy1808
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:18 am

Revelation wrote:
DIRECTFLT wrote:
Zuck back again at 9am EDT.

All these statements about "we were young and innocent" are pure bullshit.

If you look at how carefully thought out each thing FB does with regard to maximizing the amount of personal data they gather, such a statement is absurd.

I've sat in enough corporate "plausible deniability" meetings to know BS when I see it.


Well, May 25th is probably going to be D-Day for Facebook and companies like Facebook. The EU General Data Protection Regulation will come into force and get Zuckerberg where it hurts:

"a fine up to €20 million or up to 4% of the annual worldwide turnover of the preceding financial year in case of an enterprise, whichever is greater"

1.6 Billion USD for violations.....

best regards
Thomas
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:09 pm

CCGPV wrote:
The law doesn't care if you didn't read the document before signing it. That's on you for being lazy.

Regardless of my laziness (thanks for the shot, by the way) I think it's clear the law is failing us, not the other way around.

Of course that depends on what you think the intent of the law is.

If the intent is to indemnify and grant absolution to corporations, it's working quite well.

If the intent is to make the customer understand what they are agreeing to before they accept, it is failing miserably.

The law should take into account that the customer is lazy, it's a fact of life.

And if you do read through the agreement it's pretty clear the corporations are abusing the fact that most customers are lazy.

The law should use some of the same technology used by the app to MAKE SURE you understand what you're getting in to.

For instance, make the agreement into a video that can't be paused and must be completed before acceptance.

Give a quiz after and if the customer fails, make them redo it all.

Make the customer watch a public-service video on privacy issues before acceptance and make them watch it every N months before the app starts.

These are the kinds of things that should be put in to place now that we know that what we've been doing doesn't work.

But, corporations.

CCGPV wrote:
There needs to be better education about what privacy is in the modern world. Kids need to be taught this now at a young age. I know friends and colleagues who've dealt with sexting issues with their kids and its a nightmare. It never goes away.

That's a start, but keep in mind the majority of people on the earth are out of school already and aren't going back.

When this internet web thing started we all thought we were keeping a good measure of control on privacy via anonymity.

We used cute names like CCGPV to hide our true identity.

And of course this allows pervs to use anonymity when sending sexts to kids too.

But the monied interests can't monitize a bunch of fake personnas.

They needed the real identities, and through a maze of things such as tracking cookies and our grandparents and kid's coaches and hairdressers agreeing to share their contacts and through an amount of computing power no one could imagine decades ago, they know who we are despite silly made up names.

Add to that corporate deceptive practices such as "we do this to enhance your experience" and we're all pwned by now.

So, we now have the worst of both worlds, no real privacy and no real ability to identify the bad actors.

Seems to me it's time to revisit the tradeoffs we've been making.
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:13 pm

My favorite part of the House of Representatives hearing today was when Brooklyn's own Yvette Clarke began her questioning with: "Mr. Zuckerman....."

How some see his testimony:

Image

Zuk or Lore ??
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:31 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
How some see his testimony:

Zuk or Lore ??

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:03 pm

Factoid: Facebook was ranked in Dec. 2018 by Business Insider as the 4th most profitable company in the world, ahead of Apple, Google and MS, Per Employee.

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-fa ... ee-2017-12
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:11 pm

DIRECTFLT wrote:
Factoid: Facebook was ranked in Dec. 2018 by Business Insider as the 4th most profitable company in the world, ahead of Apple, Google and MS, Per Employee.

http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-fa ... ee-2017-12

Seems believable. FB is very highly valued and is almost entirely a software entity so not a huge headcount.

On the topic, https://www.buzzfeed.com/charliewarzel/ ... nt-go-back is quite good.

The main premise:

Facebook has promised to be more transparent and less creepy about collecting our personal information. But how can it do that and remain a viable business? How do you become less creepy, when creepiness is baked in?

And, what exactly is the "value proposition" of using Facebook?

But unlike Google, Facebook’s never been able to articulate what that mission might hope to achieve. Instead, it relies on a vague notion of techno-utopianism — that connecting the world is a universal good and should happen at all costs, as internal communications obtained by BuzzFeed News have revealed.

But despite such ambitions, the company has never truly articulated what’s in it for us if the company succeeds in its ultimate goal. Facebook says its mission is to “give people the power to build community and bring the world closer together.” That’s a fun thing to say on an investor page, but it leaves a lingering question: Okay, but then what?

And in conclusion,

This has been Facebook’s problem for years. What’s changed in recent weeks, though, is that we’re getting a better understanding of the sacrifice we’re making. Facebook users everywhere are now, after a decade-plus, finally asking the question: Okay, then what? So far, they’ve been met with mostly silence. And that feels creepy.

Silence, indeed, because FB profits so much from the status quo.

On a personal front, Twitter is now creeping me out. I used a throw-away email account years ago to register. Now, they're not letting me log in till I can respond to email to that account. It feels like a noose tightening...
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:16 pm

I think public completely missed the point Zuckerberg was making.

It is the users who voluntarily shared their private information with Facebook. Facebook didn't take anything from users. No wrongdoing from their side.
 
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:31 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
I think public completely missed the point Zuckerberg was making.

It is the users who voluntarily shared their private information with Facebook. Facebook didn't take anything from users. No wrongdoing from their side.

I don't think there's any wrongdoing in a legal sense from FB, but I think they are very deceptive.

I think their internal memos admit such.

I think US Members of Congress are incapable of understanding the subtle distinctions.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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tommy1808
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:32 am

Revelation wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
I think public completely missed the point Zuckerberg was making.

It is the users who voluntarily shared their private information with Facebook. Facebook didn't take anything from users. No wrongdoing from their side.

I don't think there's any wrongdoing in a legal sense from FB, but I think they are very deceptive..


And even the CEO doesn´t know, or lies to congress about it, what Facebook is doing with the data and how long they keep it.

I found the "tracking outside of Facebook" bit interesting, since Facebook is through legal battles regarding that, lost, and like buttons are illegal here. If you go to a German website, you will sometimes find that you need to turn the like button, and its code, deliberately on (and therefore consent) before you can click it, and the code becomes effective. Or the like button is implemented in a fashion that shuts the Facebook tracking out until you click.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-face ... SKCN0WB1OI

So, i found it somewhat implausible that he doesn´t know about that.

I also found it quite interesting that one of the senators, Kennedy i think, pretty openly said that killing a law you don´t like costs about 10 Million USD in Lobbying in the US .

best regards
Thomas
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Re: Facebook Executive Defended Data Collection In 2016 Memo

Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:51 am

From a recent Yahoo Terms of Service Notice I received:

In June 2017, Yahoo and AOL joined forces to create Oath, a media and technology company with a dynamic house of global brands, and a part of Verizon. It’s an exciting venture that we believe will bring a host of new innovations and digital experiences for our users. With Verizon, Oath can provide you with better experiences and services.

As part of this collaboration, we’re asking all users of Oath owned sites and services to agree to the new unified Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, which will help us continue to deliver and build on great digital experiences for you.

Privacy Policy Updates Summary
  • We’ve made it more readable! We took care to make it easier for you to understand our services and our privacy practices.
  • We’ve updated how we collect and use data. We’ve updated some of the ways we collect and analyze user data in order to deliver services, content, and relevant advertising to you and protect against abuse. This includes:
    • Analyzing content and information (including emails, instant messages, posts, photos, attachments, and other communications) when you use our services. This allows us to deliver, personalize and develop relevant features, content, advertising and services
    • Linking your activity on third-party sites and apps with information we have about you
    • Providing anonymized and aggregated reports to other parties regarding user trends
  • We’ve joined Verizon. By joining Verizon, Oath and its affiliates may share the information we receive among Verizon.
  • New information regarding personalization. We’ve included new information explaining how we combine data among our services and across your devices and Oath accounts. This allows us to provide more personalized content and services.

    Please note that although our services will continue to be available under the existing terms for now, you will eventually need to agree to the new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy in order to continue to use our services.
Thank you for your continued loyalty and support.

Sincerely,
Oath

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