An idiot in Scotland taught his girlfriend's pug to do a nazi salute in order to piss her off. He has now been convicted of a "hate crime" and is facing jail time.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/youtuber-cou ... 34759.html

To all those desperately trying to remake the U.S. in Europe's image: this is exactly the type of crap that happens when you don't have a Bill of Rights. Do you actually believe politicians will stop at the 2nd amendment if you open that door for them? Or is that precisely the end-game?

Btw, one of the funniest British TV shows of all time ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Allo_%27Allo! ), one aired by the BBC themselves, for that, made extensive comedic use of the nazi salute ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhDDa183URE , for instance). I can only imagine that in the current environment they would all be arrested for doing this.

You think this only happens in Europe? It doesn't take long to find examples of arrests made in the US for ridiculous things. Cussing in public and school dress code violations were two quick hits, and those were in the 'Freedom Loving' conservative states of North Carolina and Mississippi respectively. Not to mention the litany of frivolous lawsuits that tie up our court systems everyday.

Is it right to arrest someone for a pug based Nazi prank? I don't think so, but its hardly unique to Europe and is not a slippery slope into us losing all of our rights.

Pyrex wrote:

To all those desperately trying to remake the U.S. in Europe's image: this is exactly the type of crap that happens when you don't have a Bill of Rights. Do you actually believe politicians will stop at the 2nd amendment if you open that door for them? Or is that precisely the end-game?

Of course it’s the endgame. Thanks for knowing and caring so much about US politics.

Do you work for Cambridge Analytica, Moscow Branch?

Pyrex wrote:

An idiot in Scotland .......
To all those desperately trying to remake the U.S. in Europe's image: this is exactly the type of crap that happens when you don't have a Bill of Rights.

Er.......
Magna Carta (1215)
The Petition of Right (1628)
The Declaration of Right (1689)
(England) Bill of Rights (1689)
(Scotland) The Claim of Right Act (1689)

Shall I go on?
Granted, the English & Scottish "Bill of Rights" do not contain all of the individual provisions contained in the later US version, such as the right to bear arms (although, strangely the {English} Bill of Rights 1689 allowed Protestant citizens of England to "have Arms for their Defence suitable to their Conditions and as allowed by Law", so once again the UK had it covered long before the US "invented" the idea).

The concepts codified in the United States Bill of Rights are built upon those found in several earlier documents, including the Virginia Declaration of Rights and the English Bill of Rights 1689, along with earlier documents such as Magna Carta (1215).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... _of_Rights

So... it looks very much like US is already fashioned in Europe's image. Who would've guessed?

But then again, I was never indoctrinated at school with US history, so what do I know?

Also thanks for posting your ridiculous concerns about countries you don’t live in despite your busy life being Daddy to two teenagers. (I thought you didn’t have time for such trivial concerns?)

You must be a real hit with your wife.

Shit, you mean to tell me I have two teenage sons / daughters / non-binary genderfluids and nobody told me?

Also, funny how "everybody I don't like is a Russian political marketing consultant" is the new "everybody I don't like is a Russian troll". My, how times change fast for the emotionally stunted.

Pyrex wrote:

Shit, you mean to tell me I have two teenage sons / daughters / non-binary genderfluids and nobody told me?

Probably, karma being karma and all, a pair of nonbinary genderfluids.

I got you confused with Freakysh.

You all look alike to me.

Pyrex wrote:

Also, funny how "everybody I don't like is a Russian political marketing consultant" is the new "everybody I don't like is a Russian troll". My, how times change fast for the emotionally stunted.

The whole premise for this post is emotionally stunted.

There is no genuine “concern” as stated for either Scotland, the U.S., or Europe.

There’s only senseless provocation.

Very Russian trolly/Cambridge Analytica/emotionally stunted.

Ad hominem attacks are usually the go-to tool for people who have no arguments to refute valid points (or are too embarrassed to straight up admit out loud they actually think sending a guy to jail for teaching a dog a stupid trick is a good thing), but I am not even sure you can call them as hominens when you just straight up make Shit up about someone... I know reductio ad Hitlerum is a thing, so how about reductio ad analytics? God knows there seems to be a big overlap between the two.

Thank goodness the state protected us from this monster.

If he had given Nazi salutes, then presumably that would be a crime.

Using the dog to do so is no different.

Ah, yes. The time tested art of painting a flawed and tainted portrait of an entire Country/Continent/Society on the basis of one tabloid headline.
Populism's favorite weapon...

You are absolutely right, Pyrex; Europeans live in a dystopian-totalitarian land in which they have no freedoms or liberty of thought. They all endure dreadful and meaningless lives under the oppression of such brutal regimes. Living in Europe is an absolute nightmare.
Don't worry though, Putin is also working hard in Europe to turn it into Trump's America.

So, should the entire cast of Allo Allo get arrested? Or did they have a special permit for that? Who issues those permits, the Department of Political Hand and Arm Gestures? Do they need to escalate to the Division for the Prevention of Poking Someone's Eye Out if the request involves raising the arm above shoulder height? And does the Ministry of Silly Walks get involved if you want to do it while on the move? Papieren, bitte.

Francoflier wrote:

Ah, yes. The time tested art of painting a flawed and tainted portrait of an entire Country/Continent/Society on the basis of one tabloid headline.
Populism's favorite weapon...

You are absolutely right, Pyrex; Europeans live in a dystopian-totalitarian land in which they have no freedoms or liberty of thought. They all endure dreadful and meaningless lives under the oppression of such brutal regimes. Living in Europe is an absolute nightmare.
Don't worry though, Putin is also working hard in Europe to turn it into Trump's America.

And yet you generalized the whole of the USA as being "Trump's America" in the same post....

Most Americans are completely opposed to Trump and have nothing to do with him or his agenda. They continue to live like they always have and always will.

CCGPV wrote:

Francoflier wrote:

Ah, yes. The time tested art of painting a flawed and tainted portrait of an entire Country/Continent/Society on the basis of one tabloid headline.
Populism's favorite weapon...

You are absolutely right, Pyrex; Europeans live in a dystopian-totalitarian land in which they have no freedoms or liberty of thought. They all endure dreadful and meaningless lives under the oppression of such brutal regimes. Living in Europe is an absolute nightmare.
Don't worry though, Putin is also working hard in Europe to turn it into Trump's America.

And yet you generalized the whole of the USA as being "Trump's America" in the same post....

Most Americans are completely opposed to Trump and have nothing to do with him or his agenda. They continue to live like they always have and always will.

No he didn't. That's not at all how I read that anyway. Trump's America is the America that Trump envisions based on the values he espouses.

Pyrex wrote:

Also, funny how "everybody I don't like is a Russian political marketing consultant" is the new "everybody I don't like is a Russian troll". My, how times change fast for the emotionally stunted.

You're giving yourself too much credit. I'd have guessed toilet scrubber or television repair technician.

Ah, step 2, the contempt for labor... Some can't even get that one right, though (TV repair technician certainly requires a lot more training and knowledge than sociology-graduate Starbucks barista).

Pyrex wrote:

Ah, step 2, the contempt for labor... Some can't even get that one right, though (TV repair technician certainly requires a lot more training and knowledge than sociology-graduate Starbucks barista).

You crack me up. First, one event in Scotland is proof the Europe is a communist hellhole and Democrats in the US are evil. Then a poster is clearly just picking on you and you turn it into some classist argument.

Sometimes, in fact most of the time, a 'thing' is just a 'thing', and not some indicator of a global trend or social downfall.

Relax, have a beer, turn off the news for a bit and go outside.

2122M wrote:

You crack me up. First, one event in Scotland is proof the Europe is a communist hellhole and Democrats in the US are evil. Then a poster is clearly just picking on you and you turn it into some classist argument.

Sometimes, in fact most of the time, a 'thing' is just a 'thing', and not some indicator of a global trend or social downfall.

Relax, have a beer, turn off the news for a bit and go outside.

This occurs too much pretty much everywhere and on all "sides" nowadays. People seem to love taking one thing and plastering an entire group with responsibility for that action/event.

It really needs to stop.

Tugg

Tugger wrote:

2122M wrote:

You crack me up. First, one event in Scotland is proof the Europe is a communist hellhole and Democrats in the US are evil. Then a poster is clearly just picking on you and you turn it into some classist argument.

Sometimes, in fact most of the time, a 'thing' is just a 'thing', and not some indicator of a global trend or social downfall.

Relax, have a beer, turn off the news for a bit and go outside.

This occurs too much pretty much everywhere and on all "sides" nowadays. People seem to love taking one thing and plastering an entire group with responsibility for that action/event.

It really needs to stop.

Tugg

That's how you win and feel better about the state of your life. Get one up on someone at any cost. You have to "teach these people" what's what.

Makes you feel smart/good/whatever.

A dog can not give a Hitler salute, a dog raises his paw and most are usually doing it for attention and begging. What the dog does, does not matter, the context matters. And the dog does not shout "Sieg Heil" or "Want to gas the Jews".

CCGPV wrote:

Tugger wrote:

2122M wrote:

You crack me up. First, one event in Scotland is proof the Europe is a communist hellhole and Democrats in the US are evil. Then a poster is clearly just picking on you and you turn it into some classist argument.

Sometimes, in fact most of the time, a 'thing' is just a 'thing', and not some indicator of a global trend or social downfall.

Relax, have a beer, turn off the news for a bit and go outside.

This occurs too much pretty much everywhere and on all "sides" nowadays. People seem to love taking one thing and plastering an entire group with responsibility for that action/event.

It really needs to stop.

Tugg

That's how you win and feel better about the state of your life. Get one up on someone at any cost. You have to "teach these people" what's what.

Makes you feel smart/good/whatever.

You have to see the hypocrisy of this post, right?

Pyrex wrote:

Ad hominem attacks are usually the go-to tool for people who have no arguments to refute valid points (or are too embarrassed to straight up admit out loud they actually think sending a guy to jail for teaching a dog a stupid trick is a good thing), but I am not even sure you can call them as hominens when you just straight up make Shit up about someone... I know reductio ad Hitlerum is a thing, so how about reductio ad analytics? God knows there seems to be a big overlap between the two.

You mean, like calling someone emotionally stunted?

Or like posting something ridiculous and deliberately provocative as tangible evidence of some liberal Western government megaconspiracy?

You’ve got no leg to stand on, buddy.

But continue to be our guest and entertain yourself.

2122M wrote:

CCGPV wrote:

Tugger wrote:

This occurs too much pretty much everywhere and on all "sides" nowadays. People seem to love taking one thing and plastering an entire group with responsibility for that action/event.

It really needs to stop.

Tugg

That's how you win and feel better about the state of your life. Get one up on someone at any cost. You have to "teach these people" what's what.

Makes you feel smart/good/whatever.

You have to see the hypocrisy of this post, right?

I do.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

Pyrex wrote:

An idiot in Scotland .......
To all those desperately trying to remake the U.S. in Europe's image: this is exactly the type of crap that happens when you don't have a Bill of Rights.

Er.......
Magna Carta (1215)
The Petition of Right (1628)
The Declaration of Right (1689)
(England) Bill of Rights (1689)
(Scotland) The Claim of Right Act (1689)

Shall I go on?

You forgot this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AUK15LHwDc

This document is the document the US based his declaration on.

jetero wrote:

Pyrex wrote:

To all those desperately trying to remake the U.S. in Europe's image: this is exactly the type of crap that happens when you don't have a Bill of Rights. Do you actually believe politicians will stop at the 2nd amendment if you open that door for them? Or is that precisely the end-game?

Of course it’s the endgame. Thanks for knowing and caring so much about US politics.

Do you work for Cambridge Analytica, Moscow Branch?

Haha, indeed

Pyrex wrote:

So, should the entire cast of Allo Allo get arrested? Or did they have a special permit for that? Who issues those permits, the Department of Political Hand and Arm Gestures? Do they need to escalate to the Division for the Prevention of Poking Someone's Eye Out if the request involves raising the arm above shoulder height? And does the Ministry of Silly Walks get involved if you want to do it while on the move? Papieren, bitte.

No, that would have been silly, there is no Department of Political Hand and Arm Gesture, I think you can ask for a permit at the ministry of silly walks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqhlQfXUk7w

2122M wrote:

You have to see the hypocrisy of this post, right?

No, I don't actually.

If I am understanding what you are implying, you are saying that I am painting you with a broad brush and lumping you in with a group? If that is the case I will say I am not actually speaking of you directly, just the fact so many are doing that. I really try to avoid that but I am sure I do "broad brush" at times. I know I could be lumped into a number of buckets, liberal, conservative, religious, non-religious so I like to focus on an issue versus the person and if the person then treat them as an individual and not lumping them into a group.

Tugg

Pyrex wrote:

An idiot in Scotland taught his girlfriend's pug to do a nazi salute in order to piss her off. He has now been convicted of a "hate crime" and is facing jail time.

By your own admission he did it to cause injury. He could have shaved "my owner will give you a bj for 5 quid because she is a hooker" he would have gotten into the same kind of hot water.

I would however admire his skill if he got that much text on the small dog.

Being stupid enough to do it with a nazi salute makes that a hate crime. Same way freedom of speech, a failed concept, doesn't protect you from serving time for conspiracy to commit murder.

Pyrex wrote:

So, should the entire cast of Allo Allo get arrested? Or did they have a special permit for that? Who issues those permits, the Department of Political Hand and Arm Gestures?

You should maybe get one of those non-existent bills and check what they have to say about the freedom of art and science. You know, the stuff that makes sure that no teacher can be forced to sign a statement of faith that requires them to lie to their students, or tell an artist what art is and what isn't.

You know, all the stuff you need to put specifically in constructions once you realise that "Freedom of speech" is so flawed that a bunch of old judges, and not law makers or clear defined rights, decide what is legal to say and what isn't. "Common sense" also plays a role, but that is just a nicer word for majority dictatorship, since it doesn't exist, just ask two random Americans on what common sense gun laws or healthcare systems look like.

Best regards
Thomas

Tugger wrote:

2122M wrote:

You have to see the hypocrisy of this post, right?

No, I don't actually.

If I am understanding what you are implying, you are saying that I am painting you with a broad brush and lumping you in with a group? If that is the case I will say I am not actually speaking of you directly, just the fact so many are doing that. I really try to avoid that but I am sure I do "broad brush" at times. I know I could be lumped into a number of buckets, liberal, conservative, religious, non-religious so I like to focus on an issue versus the person and if the person then treat them as an individual and not lumping them into a group.

Tugg

I was referring to CCs post, not yours. He seemed to be indicating that I was desperate to have the last word, but in doing so, seemed desperate to get the last word.

I just thought that was funny, that's all.

2122M wrote:

I was referring to CCs post, not yours.

I failed to see the "scroll down" and CC's part. DOH!

Tugg

tommy1808 wrote:

Pyrex wrote:

An idiot in Scotland taught his girlfriend's pug to do a nazi salute in order to piss her off. He has now been convicted of a "hate crime" and is facing jail time.

By your own admission he did it to cause injury. He could have shaved "my owner will give you a bj for 5 quid because she is a hooker" he would have gotten into the same kind of hot water.

I would however admire his skill if he got that much text on the small dog.

Being stupid enough to do it with a nazi salute makes that a hate crime. Same way freedom of speech, a failed concept, doesn't protect you from serving time for conspiracy to commit murder.

Pyrex wrote:

So, should the entire cast of Allo Allo get arrested? Or did they have a special permit for that? Who issues those permits, the Department of Political Hand and Arm Gestures?

You should maybe get one of those non-existent bills and check what they have to say about the freedom of art and science. You know, the stuff that makes sure that no teacher can be forced to sign a statement of faith that requires them to lie to their students, or tell an artist what art is and what isn't.

You know, all the stuff you need to put specifically in constructions once you realise that "Freedom of speech" is so flawed that a bunch of old judges, and not law makers or clear defined rights, decide what is legal to say and what isn't. "Common sense" also plays a role, but that is just a nicer word for majority dictatorship, since it doesn't exist, just ask two random Americans on what common sense gun laws or healthcare systems look like.

Best regards
Thomas

A dog can not give a Hitler Salute, because a dog has no idea what he is doing. So the dog raising his paw is no topic at all. The "Gas the Jews" part is where the guy went into hate crime territory.

Pyrex wrote:

An idiot in Scotland taught his girlfriend's pug to do a nazi salute in order to piss her off. He has now been convicted of a "hate crime" and is facing jail time.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/youtuber-cou ... 34759.html

To all those desperately trying to remake the U.S. in Europe's image: this is exactly the type of crap that happens when you don't have a Bill of Rights. Do you actually believe politicians will stop at the 2nd amendment if you open that door for them? Or is that precisely the end-game?

Btw, one of the funniest British TV shows of all time ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Allo_%27Allo! ), one aired by the BBC themselves, for that, made extensive comedic use of the nazi salute ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhDDa183URE , for instance). I can only imagine that in the current environment they would all be arrested for doing this.

So you are fine with the Nazi salute? How do you feel if walking in the street and a friend instead of saying hello he raises his hand with that salute?
Double standard on your side being a strong defender of Israel

Where did you infer that I was "fine with the nazi salute"? From the part I called him an idiot?

My well known position regarding Israel, as you mention, should be an indicator of how I personally feel about the nazi salute. But if a friend of mine did it, I would 1) try to understand whether it was just a completely tasteless joke, something that might make some sense in context or if they legitimately meant it, and 2) if the latter, disassociate myself from that person. But unlike a statist, who immediately thinks everything they don't like should be illegal, I don't think my personal view on an issue should be the decider of whether certain speech should be banned / people should be sent to jail for it or not (and the Constitution of countries where freedom is valued agrees with me).

Where did you infer that I was "fine with the nazi salute"? From the part I called him an idiot?

My well known position regarding Israel, as you mention, should be an indicator of how I personally feel about the nazi salute. But if a friend of mine did it, I would 1) try to understand whether it was just a completely tasteless joke, something that might make some sense in context or if they legitimately meant it, and 2) if the latter, disassociate myself from that person. But unlike a statist, who immediately thinks everything they don't like should be illegal, I don't think my personal view on an issue should be the decider of whether certain speech should be banned / people should be sent to jail for it or not (and the Constitution of countries where freedom is valued agrees with me).

Francoflier wrote:

Europeans live in a dystopian-totalitarian land in which they have no freedoms or liberty of thought. They all endure dreadful and meaningless lives under the oppression of such brutal regimes.

Gross.

Airstud wrote:

Gross.

So wrong.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

Airstud wrote:

Gross.

So wrong.

You think I thought Francoflier was serious?

That’s a “Laura Ingraham hello” in the states

Airstud wrote:

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

Airstud wrote:

Gross.

So wrong.

You think I thought Francoflier was serious?

Do you think I am disagreeing with you?

I guess you were confused by my comment which was too brief and therefore ambiguous.

Perhaps it was a deliberate response to your comment, which was too brief and therefore ambiguous. (and followed your selective quote that missed a vital "this is going to be a joke" introduction from Francoflier)

I honestly couldn't tell if you were in agreement or disagreement or missed his sarcasm.
Which is the position you also found yourself in.

It seems we are in agreement on two points;
1) Francoflier's comment was amusing and sarcastic
2) Taking a (sarcastic) comment out of context, and failing to add context of your own, can be confusing to others.