SheikhDjibouti wrote:

Freakysh wrote:

1. I think you don't understand the meaning of addictive

I totally understand addictive, but that was your choice of word to describe yourself. I see you more as something sticky that you find on the bottom of your shoe. It comes down to how you view yourself, versus how the rest of the world sees you.

Freakysh wrote:

2. My answer still stands. No I haven't {noticed any transgressions by Russia}

3. So there's people that can extrapolate data and there's {people who cannot see} Russia's crimes. I don't get it

There is an obvious link between those two answers.

Freakysh wrote:

4. I have no interest in this crash {Bangla Airlines 211 crash at TIA}.

Or indeed any aviation matter whatsoever.
Exhibit A; To date Freakysh = 147 posts. All 147 non-aviation. The absolute definition of a troll.

I'm having fun; are you?

Yes yes yes! Wonderful insight into my psyche Sheikh, this certainly is entertaining.

I'm assuming since you have nothing further to add to the fact that the US meddles in foreign elections, as you are now discussing me.

Might be etiquette to start a new thread about me and my reasons for being here, as well as what sticky foot adhering compound I may be, if you'd like to continue on.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

Freakysh wrote:

1. I think you don't understand the meaning of addictive

I totally understand addictive, but that was your choice of word to describe yourself. I see you more as something sticky that you find on the bottom of your shoe. It comes down to how you view yourself, versus how the rest of the world sees you.

Freakysh wrote:

4. I have no interest in this crash {Bangla Airlines 211 crash at TIA}.

Or indeed any aviation matter whatsoever.
Exhibit A; To date Freakysh = 147 posts. All 147 non-aviation. The absolute definition of a troll.

Freakysh wrote:

Yes yes yes! Wonderful insight into my psyche Sheikh, this certainly is entertaining.

I'm assuming since you have nothing further to add to the fact that the US meddles in foreign elections, as you are now discussing me.

Might be etiquette to start a new thread about me and my reasons for being here, as well as what sticky foot adhering compound I may be, if you'd like to continue on.

Don't flatter yourself; you're not worth starting a whole new thread - but perhaps I could spare you a few frayed ends.

As for having nothing further to add to some alleged US business you have dragged up out of nowhere; we never did have a discussion on that subject, except in your imagination. In fact this is the first mention of it between us. And the last too.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

Freakysh wrote:

1. I think you don't understand the meaning of addictive

I totally understand addictive, but that was your choice of word to describe yourself. I see you more as something sticky that you find on the bottom of your shoe. It comes down to how you view yourself, versus how the rest of the world sees you.

Freakysh wrote:

4. I have no interest in this crash {Bangla Airlines 211 crash at TIA}.

Or indeed any aviation matter whatsoever.
Exhibit A; To date Freakysh = 147 posts. All 147 non-aviation. The absolute definition of a troll.

Freakysh wrote:

Yes yes yes! Wonderful insight into my psyche Sheikh, this certainly is entertaining.

I'm assuming since you have nothing further to add to the fact that the US meddles in foreign elections, as you are now discussing me.

Might be etiquette to start a new thread about me and my reasons for being here, as well as what sticky foot adhering compound I may be, if you'd like to continue on.

Don't flatter yourself; you're not worth starting a whole new thread - but perhaps I could spare you a few frayed ends.

As for having nothing further to add to some alleged US business you have dragged up out of nowhere; we never did have a discussion on that subject, except in your imagination. In fact this is the first mention of it between us. And the last too.

Ofcourse its the last one, you'd be on a hiding to nothing sheikh, you're a smart man cutting your losses, most on here would stubbornly persist.

Heiko Maas, the German foreign minister, has described Russia as a "difficult partner", but said the UK poisoning was a "bilateral" issue, indicating that Britain can count on little support from the EU.

https://euobserver.com/foreign/141362

Anyone surprised? Also a nice sneak preview of how the EU sissy Army would function in reality.

L410Turbolet wrote:

Heiko Maas, the German foreign minister, has described Russia as a "difficult partner", but said the UK poisoning was a "bilateral" issue, indicating that Britain can count on little support from the EU.

https://euobserver.com/foreign/141362

Anyone surprised? Also a nice sneak preview of how the EU sissy Army would function in reality.

Sure about that?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43453833

Looks like the German Foreign Minister 'misspoke' or was just overruled.

GDB wrote:

L410Turbolet wrote:

Heiko Maas, the German foreign minister, has described Russia as a "difficult partner", but said the UK poisoning was a "bilateral" issue, indicating that Britain can count on little support from the EU.

https://euobserver.com/foreign/141362

Anyone surprised? Also a nice sneak preview of how the EU sissy Army would function in reality.

Sure about that?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43453833

Looks like the German Foreign Minister 'misspoke' or was just overruled.

"Misspoke". It depends on to whom Herr Foreign Minister has to show solidarity. Notion of his opinion, interests of Germany, position of Germany doesn't exist for him. Just as majority of other European politicians.

GDB wrote:

L410Turbolet wrote:

Heiko Maas, the German foreign minister, has described Russia as a "difficult partner", but said the UK poisoning was a "bilateral" issue, indicating that Britain can count on little support from the EU.

https://euobserver.com/foreign/141362

Anyone surprised? Also a nice sneak preview of how the EU sissy Army would function in reality.

Sure about that?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43453833

Looks like the German Foreign Minister 'misspoke' or was just overruled.

Most importantly, the source is misquoting...

Correction: This story, originally entitled "Russia poisoning is not EU concern, Germany says", had reported that German foreign minister Heiko Maas called the Skripal case a "bilateral" matter. In fact, he pledged solidarity with the UK, but said cooperation on evidence should be handled bilaterally. EUobserver amended the article after a clarification by the German EU embassy

It is also funny to see how that quote keeps showing up on many websites, despite the EUoberserver having fixed the misleading interpretations it had at first. ..... i.e. quotes get quoted without even bothering to check the source to see if it is even correct.

Welcome in the time of fake news, where people can´t be bothered to use all the information at their fingertips.

best regards
Thomas

tommy1808 wrote:

It is also funny to see how that quote keeps showing up on many websites, despite the EUoberserver having fixed the misleading interpretations it had at first. ..... i.e. quotes get quoted without even bothering to check the source to see if it is even correct.

Welcome in the time of fake news, where people can´t be bothered to use all the information at their fingertips.

Not surprising though, it suits a lot of people's agendas.

Hey, maybe at some point some arrogant FSB agent somewhere will feel so convinced about immunity for his dirty actions he will brag about them over text message to some side-skank he is banging, and we will get a glimpse of the depth they are willing to go to in order to influence the outcome of their domestic elections, providing some glimpse into what happened in this case. Or maybe the Russians are just a lot better at information security than that.

zkojq wrote:

it suits a lot of people's agendas.

People's agenda? It seemed like it suits the consistent approach/agenda of German socialist foreign ministers.

Essentially, Germany’s Social Democrats still hanker after a détente with Russia, as if the Cold War years were comparable to today’s crises.

http://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/74982

In the Cold War years half of Germany was occupied by Russia - what exists now is nowhere near as bad.

And I wouldn't trust the Russians to maintain the integrity of borders as far as I could throw them, but the whole redrafting of borders in Europe post Cold War started when the USAF and Luftwaffe decided to act as the air force of a terrorist organization (the UÇK) and bomb the crap out of Serbia to establish an Islamic beach-head smack in the middle of Europe. It sucks for Ukraine and Georgia that they are the ones to pay for what came next, when they did nothing wrong, but I feel for Serbia as well.

L410Turbolet wrote:

zkojq wrote:

it suits a lot of people's agendas.

People's agenda? It seemed like it suits the consistent approach/agenda of German socialist foreign ministers.

former social democratic, you seem to confuse that with socialist, foreign minister....

Unusual for Carnegie, they are usually somewhat thorough, they obviously seemed to miss the simple fact that Gabriel has always maintained the position that Crimea has to be returned to Ukraine, he only consistently held the position that a strategy of small steps towards that goal is more promising than making that the mandatory first step. That is usually called "Realpolitik". And as a supposed Expert about Germany, she should know that....

So "It’s as if Russia’s decision to tear up the 1975 Helsinki Final Act (that endorsed the inviolability of borders) when it annexed Crimea and invaded eastern Ukraine in 2014 didn’t matter" is utter BS, and in fact just consistent with what he said all along: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/s ... 60068.html

Funny that this somehow becomes a point of interest 3 years later...... and that flies in the face of "Germany’s Incoherent Foreign Policy", because if that isn´t coherent, what is?

And if you look at Judy Damsey´s work for Carnegie, there seems to be a pattern emerging.... http://carnegieeurope.eu/strategiceurope/experts/693 ... at hard a Cold warrior it seems a bit.

best regards
Thomas

Pyrex wrote:

It sucks for Ukraine and Georgia that they are the ones to pay for what came next, when they did nothing wrong, but I feel for Serbia as well.

With all due respect... where were you 1991-1999? In a coma?
Milosević should have been bombed back to stone age the moment he invaded Slovenia in the summer of '91.

So do we have any evidence yet that it was the Russians? Theresa came out guns blazing but it's gone quiet.

Freakysh wrote:

So do we have any evidence yet that it was the Russians? Theresa came out guns blazing but it's gone quiet.

Of course there isn’t any evidence. All there ever was is “there are no other conclusions than ...”. Even though investigation hasn’t even started yet.

anrec80 wrote:

Freakysh wrote:

So do we have any evidence yet that it was the Russians? Theresa came out guns blazing but it's gone quiet.

Of course there isn’t any evidence. All there ever was is “there are no other conclusions than ...”. Even though investigation hasn’t even started yet.

Still haven't got a classified briefing from the Brittish Government I see.

L410Turbolet wrote:

how the EU sissy Army would function in reality.

should they learn from you?

anrec80 wrote:

Freakysh wrote:

So do we have any evidence yet that it was the Russians? Theresa came out guns blazing but it's gone quiet.

Of course there isn’t any evidence. All there ever was is “there are no other conclusions than ...”. Even though investigation hasn’t even started yet.

So, because you and your mate freakysh haven't seen any evidence means there is none? Do you really believe there has been no investigation into the use of a WMD on British soil?

Deluded doesn't cover it.

scbriml wrote:

anrec80 wrote:

Freakysh wrote:

So do we have any evidence yet that it was the Russians? Theresa came out guns blazing but it's gone quiet.

Of course there isn’t any evidence. All there ever was is “there are no other conclusions than ...”. Even though investigation hasn’t even started yet.

So, because you and your mate freakysh haven't seen any evidence means there is none? Do you really believe there has been no investigation into the use of a WMD on British soil?

Deluded doesn't cover it.

Did you read my post? I said - by the time Therese May said about “novichok” the investigation hasn’t even started. Let alone complete it, have all the proof, be able to name suspects with adequate proof, and actually charge someone.

When you have an international case like this, there are international agreements in place that cover similar “chemical weapons” cases, and cooperation between the countries. Russians don’t deny any help in investigation in accordance to such agreements. But all we have now is accusations, without any proof shown so far.

anrec80 wrote:

scbriml wrote:

anrec80 wrote:

Of course there isn’t any evidence. All there ever was is “there are no other conclusions than ...”. Even though investigation hasn’t even started yet.

So, because you and your mate freakysh haven't seen any evidence means there is none? Do you really believe there has been no investigation into the use of a WMD on British soil?

Deluded doesn't cover it.

Did you read my post? I said - by the time Therese May said about “novichok” the investigation hasn’t even started. Let alone complete it, have all the proof, be able to name suspects with adequate proof, and actually charge someone.

When you have an international case like this, there are international agreements in place that cover similar “chemical weapons” cases, and cooperation between the countries. Russians don’t deny any help in investigation in accordance to such agreements. But all we have now is accusations, without any proof shown so far.

The Russian state is accused, why should it be given everything? And again how do you know there is no evidence? You can't know that. Defending the Putin regime goes quite far with you.

Dutchy wrote:

anrec80 wrote:

scbriml wrote:

So, because you and your mate freakysh haven't seen any evidence means there is none? Do you really believe there has been no investigation into the use of a WMD on British soil?

Deluded doesn't cover it.

Did you read my post? I said - by the time Therese May said about “novichok” the investigation hasn’t even started. Let alone complete it, have all the proof, be able to name suspects with adequate proof, and actually charge someone.

When you have an international case like this, there are international agreements in place that cover similar “chemical weapons” cases, and cooperation between the countries. Russians don’t deny any help in investigation in accordance to such agreements. But all we have now is accusations, without any proof shown so far.

The Russian state is accused, why should it be given everything? And again how do you know there is no evidence? You can't know that. Defending the Putin regime goes quite far with you.

He's a deep state plant by the CIA to make Russia look bad, clearly.

I heard on the evening news that Russia is now saying the US developed the nerve agent Novichok. Sounds Russian to me. A joke there folks. Trump may use that to decide not to expel any Russian's. Would not surprise me, nothing he does, does.

Dutchy wrote:

anrec80 wrote:

Freakysh wrote:

So do we have any evidence yet that it was the Russians? Theresa came out guns blazing but it's gone quiet.

Of course there isn’t any evidence. All there ever was is “there are no other conclusions than ...”. Even though investigation hasn’t even started yet.

Still haven't got a classified briefing from the Brittish Government I see.

So that's none. Zero. Nada.


You're like those religious nuts that argue God exists and then put it back on you to prove there is no God.

WarRI1 wrote:

I heard on the evening news that Russia is now saying the US developed the nerve agent Novichok. Sounds Russian to me. A joke there folks. Trump may use that to decide not to expel any Russian's. Would not surprise me, nothing he does, does.

I would like to note the total technical illiteracy of local commentators. First, to determine that Skripal was poisoned it as a Novice, from England, was supposed to be a sample of the substance, or at least its formula. You are not confused by the fact that the" Newcomer " is somehow connected with Russia, although it could produce any country that has factories for the production of chemical weapons? By the way, where samples of this gas? Why haven't they been introduced yet?

The second question: why would someone from Russia to kill Skripal this way? It is obvious that he did not have any special protection. And there are many much less obvious methods of elimination.
What next time will use in order to blame Russia? Tactical nuclear weapons? Circus bears with balalaika? Poisoned vodka "Putinka"?

.I will note that the squeak was" accidentally " poisoned on the eve of the elections in Russia. And "quite by chance" in the West on the eve of elections in Russia, a campaign is organized to accuse Putin. "Putin is bad! Do not vote for Putin, or else we will impose sanctions on you!". A ''completely random'' coincidence.

Dutchy wrote:

The Russian state is accused, why should it be given everything?

Your question the way it's asked contains the answer. There is a set of international agreements around chemical weapons, and an international organization called "organization for prohibition of chemical weapons" - OPCW. These agreements contain process of investigation, and also indicate that the "accused" party has a right for the samples and their analysis. Not "the right to explain within 24 hours".

And - it's the matter of what you want to get. If you want cooperation, you need to provide information and samples. If you want to accuse - you have all you need for that, but not what you need to establish what actually went on. Pick one.

Dutchy wrote:

And again how do you know there is no evidence? You can't know that. Defending the Putin regime goes quite far with you.

Where is this evidence? Nobody shown anything to anyone yet, just screaming and accusations. Hence "I have no conclusion other than" there is no evidence, at least yet.

Dutchy wrote:

Still haven't got a classified briefing from the Brittish Government I see.

It does look as if nobody in London ever had any briefings whatsoever. Or - nobody knows who briefed them and how.

anrec80 wrote:

Where is this evidence? Nobody shown anything to anyone yet, just screaming and accusations. Hence "I have no conclusion other than" there is no evidence, at least yet.

You defend Russia against anything, against overwhelming evidence or with no evidence shown, it doesn't matter, your conclusions are always the same: Putin did the right thing and Russia is not to blame. Example: MH17 overwhelming evidence, you still deny it. Hence you have no other credentials than being a Russian troll.

Scorpius wrote:

WarRI1 wrote:

I heard on the evening news that Russia is now saying the US developed the nerve agent Novichok. Sounds Russian to me. A joke there folks. Trump may use that to decide not to expel any Russian's. Would not surprise me, nothing he does, does.

I would like to note the total technical illiteracy of local commentators. First, to determine that Skripal was poisoned it as a Novice, from England, was supposed to be a sample of the substance, or at least its formula. You are not confused by the fact that the" Newcomer " is somehow connected with Russia, although it could produce any country that has factories for the production of chemical weapons? By the way, where samples of this gas? Why haven't they been introduced yet?

The second question: why would someone from Russia to kill Skripal this way? It is obvious that he did not have any special protection. And there are many much less obvious methods of elimination.
What next time will use in order to blame Russia? Tactical nuclear weapons? Circus bears with balalaika? Poisoned vodka "Putinka"?

.I will note that the squeak was" accidentally " poisoned on the eve of the elections in Russia. And "quite by chance" in the West on the eve of elections in Russia, a campaign is organized to accuse Putin. "Putin is bad! Do not vote for Putin, or else we will impose sanctions on you!". A ''completely random'' coincidence.

Buddy, we only know it as "novichok" I don't think most know it as the translated "newcomer". Just future advice for when you use Google translate.

anrec80 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Still haven't got a classified briefing from the Brittish Government I see.

It does look as if nobody in London ever had any briefings whatsoever. Or - nobody knows who briefed them and how.

There have been briefings. I'm sure the chemical analysis has shown it can't be definitively linked to the Russian government.

Now Teresa waiting on direction from the CIA to see whether or not they take this down GWB WMD territory

US and EU expel scores of Russian diplomats over Skripal attack

US orders expulsion of 60 officials as 14 EU member states plus Ukraine announce coordinated response to nerve agent poisoning.

The US, the EU, Canada and Ukraine have ordered the expulsion of dozens of Russian diplomats in response to the nerve agent attack in the UK, in a show of solidarity that represents the biggest concerted blow to Russian intelligence networks in the west since the cold war.

More than 100 Russian diplomats in western countries alleged to be spies are being told to return to Moscow, in a coordinated response to the use of a chemical weapon in the 4 March attempted murder of Sergei Skripal, a former Russian intelligence official, and his daughter, Yulia, in Salisbury.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... pal-attack

And they're gone.

anrec80 wrote:

Did you read my post? I said - by the time Therese May said about “novichok” the investigation hasn’t even started.

Eight days elapsed between the Skripals being attacked and May's statement in the commons. What on Earth do you think was happening in all that time?

Dutchy wrote:

US and EU expel scores of Russian diplomats over Skripal attack

US orders expulsion of 60 officials as 14 EU member states plus Ukraine announce coordinated response to nerve agent poisoning.

The US, the EU, Canada and Ukraine have ordered the expulsion of dozens of Russian diplomats in response to the nerve agent attack in the UK, in a show of solidarity that represents the biggest concerted blow to Russian intelligence networks in the west since the cold war.

More than 100 Russian diplomats in western countries alleged to be spies are being told to return to Moscow, in a coordinated response to the use of a chemical weapon in the 4 March attempted murder of Sergei Skripal, a former Russian intelligence official, and his daughter, Yulia, in Salisbury.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... pal-attack

And they're gone.

Aside from over 100 Soviet 'diplomats' being expelled just from the UK in 1971, this is I think the largest mass expulsion of 'diplomatic' staff in history?
A large part of Putin's game plan is to sow as much discord as possible to undermine NATO, the EU, the US.
He would have have expected the British reaction but likely thought that support from elsewhere, even close allies, would be words not deeds.

He's overreached before, in Crimea, in Syria. (Concerning Syria, Putin declared 'victory' there in December. Does that sound like a US President in 2003 on an Aircraft Carrier?
Then not two months later reports of around 200 Russian 'Mercenaries' (likely as found in Crimea, mostly serving Russian military their employer as 'Mercenaries being a Putin crony), are killed in a US airstrike.

The number of "diplomats" expelled from Prague is just laughable and ridiculous. The whole embassy has staff of almost 140 (totally disproportionate number given the size and insignificance of the country), 60% of which are suspected to be spies.
Plus the foreign ministry should have also tossed out Zeman, the senile drunkard and embarrasment of the Prague Castle as a free bonus.

GDB wrote:

Aside from over 100 Soviet 'diplomats' being expelled just from the UK in 1971, this is I think the largest mass expulsion of 'diplomatic' staff in history?
A large part of Putin's game plan is to sow as much discord as possible to undermine NATO, the EU, the US.
He would have have expected the British reaction but likely thought that support from elsewhere, even close allies, would be words not deeds.

Putin doesn't care at all about this diplomatic charade (who does anyway?).
The Russian used this unique chemical agent, that could easily be traced to them, as a statement.
It just like mafia tactics.

As I have said before, real sanctions and real consequences will not happen as long as Europe is dependent on Russian gas.
Mafia politics from Russia and spineless politics from the EU as usual.
Nothing new there.

Dahlgardo wrote:

GDB wrote:

Aside from over 100 Soviet 'diplomats' being expelled just from the UK in 1971, this is I think the largest mass expulsion of 'diplomatic' staff in history?
A large part of Putin's game plan is to sow as much discord as possible to undermine NATO, the EU, the US.
He would have have expected the British reaction but likely thought that support from elsewhere, even close allies, would be words not deeds.

Putin doesn't care at all about this diplomatic charade (who does anyway?).
The Russian used this unique chemical agent, that could easily be traced to them, as a statement.
It just like mafia tactics.

As I have said before, real sanctions and real consequences will not happen as long as Europe is dependent on Russian gas.
Mafia politics from Russia and spineless politics from the EU as usual.
Nothing new there.

So what do you propose as a reaction to this? What should the EU do according to you?

Dutchy wrote:

So what do you propose as a reaction to this? What should the EU do according to you?

How about a real trade embargo?
No more overflights or airline services by Russian airlines.
Seizure of assets
Travel ban.

Strong military help to Ukraine.
etc
etc

Don't forget the Russians shot down a civilian airliner originating from AMS with no consequences what so ever.
This kind of crap will just go on and on.

Dahlgardo wrote:

As I have said before, real sanctions and real consequences will not happen as long as Europe is dependent on Russian gas.

Well, the UK is trying. The Government estimates are that around just 1% of our imported gas comes from Russia, they're also looking to source that elsewhere.

Dahlgardo wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

So what do you propose as a reaction to this? What should the EU do according to you?

How about a real trade embargo?
No more overflights or airline services by Russian airlines.
Seizure of assets
Travel ban.

Strong military help to Ukraine.
etc
etc

Don't forget the Russians shot down a civilian airliner originating from AMS with no consequences what so ever.
This kind of crap will just go on and on.

I guess it is easy to be an armchair "diplomat".

scbriml wrote:

Well, the UK is trying. The Government estimates are that around just 1% of our imported gas comes from Russia, they're also looking to source that elsewhere.

and at the same time, the Germans are pushing hard for EU to approve the Gazprom "North Stream 2" gas pipeline that will provide the EU with even more Russian gas and at the same time bypass Ukraine so they will loose a lot of transfer revenue. In a sane world, that pipeline would never be approved. Instead we get this diplomatic circus that nobody gives a f@ck about other than the politicians who then can show the public how they take a "hard stance" towards Russia.

Dutchy wrote:

I guess it is easy to be an armchair "diplomat".

You asked.

Please enlighten me how you think the current reaction by the EU makes any difference?

Dahlgardo wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

I guess it is easy to be an armchair "diplomat".

You asked.

Please enlighten me how you think the current reaction by the EU makes any difference?

Becoming energy independent will help but that takes time. Becoming fossil fuel independent will help, but that takes a lot of time. Given the current situation, the EU can only apply pressure - especially the people surrounding the Putin regime - because it also applies to Russia, they are also dependent on the EU for foreign funds. But granted, this mass expulsion of diplomats is more for domestic use than to send Russia a message.

Dutchy wrote:

Becoming energy independent will help but that takes time. Becoming fossil fuel independent will help, but that takes a lot of time. Given the current situation, the EU can only apply pressure - especially the people surrounding the Putin regime - because it also applies to Russia, they are also dependent on the EU for foreign funds. But granted, this mass expulsion of diplomats is more for domestic use than to send Russia a message.

So there you have it.
Do nothing and let Russia continue to do what it wants.

As for fossil fuel and independence of such, then please take note that several EU-countries are pushing for the North Stream 2 gas pipeline to be built to increase dependence of Russian fossil fuel.
What could possibly go wrong there.

Nuclear power is the only way to go.

Dahlgardo wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Becoming energy independent will help but that takes time. Becoming fossil fuel independent will help, but that takes a lot of time. Given the current situation, the EU can only apply pressure - especially the people surrounding the Putin regime - because it also applies to Russia, they are also dependent on the EU for foreign funds. But granted, this mass expulsion of diplomats is more for domestic use than to send Russia a message.

So there you have it.
Do nothing and let Russia continue to do what it wants.

As for fossil fuel and independence of such, then please take note that several EU-countries are pushing for the North Stream 2 gas pipeline to be built to increase dependence of Russian fossil fuel.
What could possibly go wrong there.

Nuclear power is the only way to go.

You only hear what you want to hear.

Dutchy wrote:

You only hear what you want to hear.

I'm sure you have the best intentions, but the "let's wait until we get independent of fossil fuel then...." argument is defacto the same argument as "do nothing for 25 years".
The current sanctions against Russia are a joke and have accomplished nothing.
The North Stream 2 pipeline just highlights why the EU is a joke as political force.
Oh, and lets all enjoy the World Cup in Russia this summer.
No one will probably not boycott that anyway, despite the anger and high morale of the EU.
And Qatar in 2022.
What a beautiful world we live in.

Dutchy wrote:

So what do you propose as a reaction to this? What should the EU do according to you?

C'mon Dutchy you know too well that this expulsion of Russian "diplomats" in single digit numbers is just an empty gesture, a window dressing.
The Nord Stream 2 that not only sabotages EU energy security, but provides Putin with lifeblood for his regime (money for fossil fuels) while allowing Ukraine to be left out in the cold (literally) at the same time is defending indefensible.
Squaling of Merkel & co., Shell, OMV and others involved in NS2 when threatened with US sanctions was pretty telling.

L410Turbolet wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

So what do you propose as a reaction to this? What should the EU do according to you?

C'mon Dutchy you know too well that this expulsion of Russian "diplomats" in single digit numbers is just an empty gesture, a window dressing.
The Nord Stream 2 that not only sabotages EU energy security, but provides Putin with lifeblood for his regime (money for fossil fuels) while allowing Ukraine to be left out in the cold (literally) at the same time is defending indefensible.
Squaling of Merkel & co., Shell, OMV and others involved in NS2 when threatened with US sanctions was pretty telling.

Germany can go right ahead and shoot themselves in the foot. The rest of Europe can continue on with building up their renewable profile.

Ukraine is no stranger to being boned by Russia. I feel they are rugged enough to take care of things.

Jouhou wrote:

Germany can go right ahead and shoot themselves in the foot. The rest of Europe can continue on with building up their renewable profile.

Germany prefers something cheaper, more stable and reliable than those renewables. They see Russian gas as exactly such.

Jouhou wrote:

Ukraine is no stranger to being boned by Russia. I feel they are rugged enough to take care of things.

Ukraine can't take care of itself even - all their leadership does is running around West and begging for money. Have you seen the facial expression of their President? When he pushes a touching speech with a piece of a bus, some passports, others show a dirty rug that once used to be a Ukrainian flag. Russia doesn't need that territory, and everyone knows that. It's really "democratic" neighbors - Hungary and Poland that still want some of that. Personally - let them take it, it will be better for the territories and people living there. And for Central and Eastern parts too.

Dutchy wrote:

You defend Russia against anything, against overwhelming evidence or with no evidence shown, it doesn't matter, your conclusions are always the same: Putin did the right thing and Russia is not to blame. Example: MH17 overwhelming evidence, you still deny it. Hence you have no other credentials than being a Russian troll.

Where’s that “overwhelming evidence”? All we’ve seen so far on MH-17 is that Bellingcat “social media based” report with Buk having been hauled from and back to some “black hole” on Russian border. Hardly an evidence and certainly not an “overwhelming” one. We’ve been promised a trial on that later this year, but that’s been pushed into 2019 now. Isn’t it time for you to start questioning what those investigators are doing there? And will you ever get to anything?

anrec80 wrote:

Jouhou wrote:

Germany can go right ahead and shoot themselves in the foot. The rest of Europe can continue on with building up their renewable profile.

Germany prefers something cheaper, more stable and reliable than those renewables. They see Russian gas as exactly such.

Jouhou wrote:

Ukraine is no stranger to being boned by Russia. I feel they are rugged enough to take care of things.

Ukraine can't take care of itself even - all their leadership does is running around West and begging for money. Have you seen the facial expression of their President? When he pushes a touching speech with a piece of a bus, some passports, others show a dirty rug that once used to be a Ukrainian flag. Russia doesn't need that territory, and everyone knows that. It's really "democratic" neighbors - Hungary and Poland that still want some of that. Personally - let them take it, it will be better for the territories and people living there. And for Central and Eastern parts too.

Sacrificing energy independence for greed won't benefit Germany in the long run, for as long as Russia keeps playing dirty on the global playing field. Same as the negative sentiment shown towards the US and Arab countries, fossil fuels producers are frequently resented for any perception of using energy for geopolitical leverage.

And lol, Russians have always treated the inhabitants of Ukraine horribly, ethnic Russians or not. Your attitude reflects that.

Dutchy wrote:

US and EU expel scores of Russian diplomats over Skripal attack

US orders expulsion of 60 officials as 14 EU member states plus Ukraine announce coordinated response to nerve agent poisoning.

The US, the EU, Canada and Ukraine have ordered the expulsion of dozens of Russian diplomats in response to the nerve agent attack in the UK, in a show of solidarity that represents the biggest concerted blow to Russian intelligence networks in the west since the cold war.

More than 100 Russian diplomats in western countries alleged to be spies are being told to return to Moscow, in a coordinated response to the use of a chemical weapon in the 4 March attempted murder of Sergei Skripal, a former Russian intelligence official, and his daughter, Yulia, in Salisbury.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... pal-attack

And they're gone.

As I predicted in the other thread. The West is allying over Russia's overreach and we no longer actually care if we even have diplomatic relations with Russia anymore.

The sooner we turn Russia into a pariah state, the better. The reactions from our local butt hurt Russian trolls will be nothing short of priceless.

This is where your s**thead dear leader Putin has taken you, so enjoy the ride.