Back on topic.

So far we have the following evidence it was the Russians:

novichok was used. Russia invented novichok.

The Russians wanted to send a message to other spies

The Russians had the means, motive and record

Please add if I've missed anything from this exhaustive and conclusive list.

tommy1808 wrote:

Dutchy, you may be able to convince him, but he will never admit that. He is Russian, he probably doesn't want to go to prison, get, murdered in some back alley or be trown off a balcony.

Pitty is in order, not frustration.

Best regards
Thomas

You know what Thomas - what you've said here is absolute truth. In my "newly democratic" homeland, for expressing views similar to mine, people (including journalists) do get hefty prison sentences, killed, or just disappear. All of the things you mentioned and many more do happen in real life to them. And these risks there are real, so you probably can say I am taking chances.

The country I am talking about here though is NOT Russia.

Freakysh wrote:

Back on topic.

So far we have the following evidence it was the Russians:

novichok was used. Russia invented novichok.

The Russians wanted to send a message to other spies

The Russians had the means, motive and record

Please add if I've missed anything from this exhaustive and conclusive list.

You forgot two things - "highly likely" and "no alternate explanation exists".

anrec80 wrote:

Freakysh wrote:

Back on topic.

So far we have the following evidence it was the Russians:

novichok was used. Russia invented novichok.

The Russians wanted to send a message to other spies

The Russians had the means, motive and record

Please add if I've missed anything from this exhaustive and conclusive list.

You forgot two things - "highly likely" and "no alternate explanation exists".

Yes, well spotted.

Damning evidence if you ask me

Freakysh wrote:

anrec80 wrote:

Freakysh wrote:

Back on topic.

So far we have the following evidence it was the Russians:

novichok was used. Russia invented novichok.

The Russians wanted to send a message to other spies

The Russians had the means, motive and record

Please add if I've missed anything from this exhaustive and conclusive list.

You forgot two things - "highly likely" and "no alternate explanation exists".

Yes, well spotted.

Damning evidence if you ask me

Yes, this is now a replacement for absolutely any proof, evidence, negotiations, agreement. Latest political trends - once you said that, you can do anything - bomb, kill, etc.

anrec80 wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

Dutchy, you may be able to convince him, but he will never admit that. He is Russian, he probably doesn't want to go to prison, get, murdered in some back alley or be trown off a balcony.

Pitty is in order, not frustration.

Best regards
Thomas

You know what Thomas - what you've said here is absolute truth. In my "newly democratic" homeland, for expressing views similar to mine, people (including journalists) do get hefty prison sentences, killed, or just disappear. All of the things you mentioned and many more do happen in real life to them. And these risks there are real, so you probably can say I am taking chances.

The country I am talking about here though is NOT Russia.

Care to share which country that might be.

Dutchy wrote:

anrec80 wrote:

tommy1808 wrote:

Dutchy, you may be able to convince him, but he will never admit that. He is Russian, he probably doesn't want to go to prison, get, murdered in some back alley or be trown off a balcony.

Pitty is in order, not frustration.

Best regards
Thomas

You know what Thomas - what you've said here is absolute truth. In my "newly democratic" homeland, for expressing views similar to mine, people (including journalists) do get hefty prison sentences, killed, or just disappear. All of the things you mentioned and many more do happen in real life to them. And these risks there are real, so you probably can say I am taking chances.

The country I am talking about here though is NOT Russia.

Care to share which country that might be.

Care to guess? I’ll even give you a hint - it’s close to Russia. And one more - not everyone even (myself included) can call THAT a country.

anrec80 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

anrec80 wrote:

You know what Thomas - what you've said here is absolute truth. In my "newly democratic" homeland, for expressing views similar to mine, people (including journalists) do get hefty prison sentences, killed, or just disappear. All of the things you mentioned and many more do happen in real life to them. And these risks there are real, so you probably can say I am taking chances.

The country I am talking about here though is NOT Russia.

Care to share which country that might be.

Care to guess? I’ll even give you a hint - it’s close to Russia. And one more - not everyone even (myself included) can call THAT a country.

Can you give a straight answer for once?

Dutchy wrote:

anrec80 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Care to share which country that might be.

Care to guess? I’ll even give you a hint - it’s close to Russia. And one more - not everyone even (myself included) can call THAT a country.

Can you give a straight answer for once?

Ukraine. Or whatever is left from it for this reason.

anrec80 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

anrec80 wrote:

Care to guess? I’ll even give you a hint - it’s close to Russia. And one more - not everyone even (myself included) can call THAT a country.

Can you give a straight answer for once?

Ukraine. Or whatever is left from it for this reason.

Eastern Ukraine?

Dutchy wrote:

anrec80 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Can you give a straight answer for once?

Ukraine. Or whatever is left from it for this reason.

Eastern Ukraine?

Yes, though not the “most” eastern.

anrec80 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

anrec80 wrote:

Ukraine. Or whatever is left from it for this reason.

Eastern Ukraine?

Yes, though not the “most” eastern.

Uhmmmm. I am mighty interested what you doing there, but do I dare to speculate on that?

Dutchy wrote:

Uhmmmm. I am mighty interested what you doing there, but do I dare to speculate on that?

What people generally do there? They can live there, they can visit there. Just as any other place. You might say that some people “occupy” some regions, but, as I said before, nobody there has seen even a single occupant, neither dead or alive.

anrec80 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Uhmmmm. I am mighty interested what you doing there, but do I dare to speculate on that?

What people generally do there? They can live there, they can visit there. Just as any other place. You might say that some people “occupy” some regions, but, as I said before, nobody there has seen even a single occupant, neither dead or alive.

A Russian citizen in Ukraine while Ukraine and Russia are defacto at war. Sure just like any other place.

Dutchy wrote:

anrec80 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

Uhmmmm. I am mighty interested what you doing there, but do I dare to speculate on that?

What people generally do there? They can live there, they can visit there. Just as any other place. You might say that some people “occupy” some regions, but, as I said before, nobody there has seen even a single occupant, neither dead or alive.

A Russian citizen in Ukraine while Ukraine and Russia are defacto at war. Sure just like any other place.

Considering Ukraine's history, it's probably not as simple as that.

Wikipedia wrote:

The country is home to 42.5 million people (excluding Crimea), 77.8 percent of whom are Ukrainians "by ethnicity", followed by a sizeable minority of Russians (17.3 percent) as well as Georgians, Romanians/Moldovans, Belarusians, Crimean Tatars, Bulgarians and Hungarians

I'm betting some of those "Russians" feel themselves to be 100% Ukrainian.
And some Ukrainians still yearn for the days they were part of the USSR, united with Russia.
And some families have a Russian father, and a Ukrainian mother, or vice versa.

So I suggest we consider anrec80 as simply a Ukrainian citizen with some "conflicts of interest"... until he tells us otherwise.
Meanwhile, don't go looking for problems where they might not exist.

Dutchy wrote:

A Russian citizen in Ukraine while Ukraine and Russia are defacto at war. Sure just like any other place.

What’s up with this? There are at least 3 million Ukrainians living and making money in Russia (due to screwed up Ukrainian economy) - and Russians have no issues with it. Trade volume is also significant. Going higher up - the so called “Big Friendship and Cooperation Treaty” is not denounced and still in force. There are diplomatic establishments. Visa-free travel is also there. Ukrainian state railway sends trains to Russia daily, Russian Railway has a train route via Ukraine to Moldova.

So that’s the kind of war - just up to a degree to support some interests of Ukrainian oligarchic groups (corrupted re-sales to the military, arms trade). And these groups (and other Ukrainian “patriots”), of course, see nothing wrong with making money, as they say, “on Russia”.

anrec80 wrote:

Dutchy wrote:

A Russian citizen in Ukraine while Ukraine and Russia are defacto at war. Sure just like any other place.

What’s up with this? There are at least 3 million Ukrainians living and making money in Russia (due to screwed up Ukrainian economy) - and Russians have no issues with it. Trade volume is also significant. Going higher up - the so called “Big Friendship and Cooperation Treaty” is not denounced and still in force. There are diplomatic establishments. Visa-free travel is also there. Ukrainian state railway sends trains to Russia daily, Russian Railway has a train route via Ukraine to Moldova.

So that’s the kind of war - just up to a degree to support some interests of Ukrainian oligarchic groups (corrupted re-sales to the military, arms trade). And these groups (and other Ukrainian “patriots”), of course, see nothing wrong with making money, as they say, “on Russia”.

I said a defacto state of war, Russia occupies/annexed part of Ukraine, so what else would you call it? If I am not mistaking, Russia and Japan are still officially at war because some unresolved issues involving a number of islands occupied/annexed by Russia.

But then again, SheikhDjibouti has a point:

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

So I suggest we consider anrec80 as simply a Ukrainian citizen with some "conflicts of interest"... until he tells us otherwise.

So tell us, anrec80, are you a Ukrainian citizen or a Russian citizen?

Back on topic, has Sergei Skripal recovered?

Dutchy wrote:

I said a defacto state of war, Russia occupies/annexed part of Ukraine, so what else would you call it? If I am not mistaking, Russia and Japan are still officially at war because some unresolved issues involving a number of islands occupied/annexed by Russia.

So tell us, anrec80, are you a Ukrainian citizen or a Russian citizen?

Ukrainian. And - have never lived in Russia (been though a long time ago).

Yes, technically Japan and Russia are officially at war - but so what? There is trade, relations, agreements, etc. Japan isn’t eager to sign the agreement - they are on lookout to see if they can snap a few islands that used to be theirs before WW2. I am not sure of that bit of history, but Japanese signed the treaty, but either refused to ratify it or called back their signature. Nonetheless - it is what it is. They may like it or not - they engaged into a war, lost it, and territorial losses is a very common outcome of a lost war.

Crimea - some may say “annexation”, “war” - alright. To any Ukrainian (including Eastern ones) this loss is certainly far from pleasant,and there is nothing to be happy about. Absolutely nothing. Together with that, I understand and accept their move. It’s been too visible what and whom that Maidan was about, and they needed to do what they needed to do to help themselves. I’d say even I am happy for Crimeans - they seem to have found their place. Am I blaming Crimeas or Russians - not a single bit. This situation - is the responsibility of those who made the coup in Feb 2014 and decisions they tried to push through with.

SheikhDjibouti wrote:

So I suggest we consider anrec80 as simply a Ukrainian citizen with some "conflicts of interest"... until he tells us otherwise.

I don’t see any conflict of interests anywhere. Just as any UKrainian, I wish Ukraine to do well. And current Western course - it’s simply something that has proven to not work already. Russia has been and remains the only place where things “made in Ukraine” are in demand and many of them still have their place. Orientation to those markets (and therefore political orientation) - is the only way Ukraine can sustain its economy, and therefore statehood, whether one likes it or not. Today’s deal with EU - is a one-way street, where Ukraine can only sell sunflower and rapeseeds. You can’t possibly sustain a 40 million country on sunflower.

MSPbrandon wrote:

Back on topic, has Sergei Skripal recovered?

Nothing is known. In fact, I won’t be surprised if it turns out eventually that nobody never poisoned anyone.

anrec80 wrote:

MSPbrandon wrote:

Back on topic, has Sergei Skripal recovered?

Nothing is known. In fact, I won’t be surprised if it turns out eventually that nobody never poisoned anyone.

Now you are just trolling.....

Dutchy wrote:

anrec80 wrote:

MSPbrandon wrote:

Back on topic, has Sergei Skripal recovered?

Nothing is known. In fact, I won’t be surprised if it turns out eventually that nobody never poisoned anyone.

Now you are just trolling.....

Not that completely. Recently (after 2 months) after poisoning Scotland Yard issued a statement where they said they don't even yet have any suspects. And there has been a lot of noise on this thread about "proof".

anrec80 wrote:

And there has been a lot of noise on this thread about "proof".

You are absolutely right, you and other Russian devotees have made a lot of noise. Doesn't change the facts though.